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post #7621 of 9096 Old 06-27-2019, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike_Pasich View Post
Well, I’m just getting overwhelmed reading all of this. The idea started with getting the A16, then I read about the JBL version which led me to the 32. I have a habit of buying stuff then 6 months later the product I really wanted came out at half of the price (Sony OLED comes to mind). So I don’t know what I’m going to do. I’m leaning towards the A16 but getting it after the DTS and IMAX upgrades come out. I just need to slow down and not rush into it. I have to admit I watched Captain Marvel on my McIntosh MX122 and really want more channels than 11.1 LOL. I guess I’m spoiled 😂.
If you plan to go above 16 channels; buy the Altitude32, if 16 channels is enough - go for the Altitude16. This is not complicated, the Altitude will last for years. Trinnov have announced the DTS:X Pro and IMAX already. It will come (free software upgrade). I don't see the point in buing the JBL version. It is an Altitude32 (produced by Trinnov), with big delays on firmware upgrades and functionality.

Altitude32 has been my best investment ever; I feel it is cheap (compared to what you get). Can not imagine life without it.

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post #7622 of 9096 Old 06-27-2019, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Berland View Post
If you plan to go above 16 channels; buy the Altitude32, if 16 channels is enough - go for the Altitude16. This is not complicated, the Altitude will last for years. Trinnov have announced the DTS:X Pro and IMAX already. It will come (free software upgrade). I don't see the point in buing the JBL version. It is an Altitude32 (produced by Trinnov), with big delays on firmware upgrades and functionality.

Altitude32 has been my best investment ever; I feel it is cheap (compared to what you get). Can not imagine life without it.
As I understand it, the reason to buy the JBL SDP-75 is if you have all (except subs, possibly) JBL Synthesis gear, you want the proprietary crossover tunings from JBL added to the Altitude by them, and it's important for you to have the planned anechoic chamber-based EQ curves for each speaker embedded into the "pre-EQ" so that the Optimizer takes them into account as part of what to correct, or not. I'm not sure just where being able to do all of this in an AIO for the entire set of JBL/Revel speakers is possible with the SDP-75 in the near term, or what the status is longer-term, though.

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post #7623 of 9096 Old 06-27-2019, 03:44 PM
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Anyone want to buy a kidney so I can get the 32? 🤣🤣🤣
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post #7624 of 9096 Old 06-27-2019, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
Does anyone have the commands for the Trinnov in HEX format?
What is the HEX format?

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post #7625 of 9096 Old 06-27-2019, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Berland View Post
What is the HEX format?

It’s the raw data for the IR commands.

If it’s in hex i can put it into the URC programming software
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post #7626 of 9096 Old 06-27-2019, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
As I understand it, the reason to buy the JBL SDP-75 is if you have all (except subs, possibly) JBL Synthesis gear, you want the proprietary crossover tunings from JBL added to the Altitude by them, and it's important for you to have the planned anechoic chamber-based EQ curves for each speaker embedded into the "pre-EQ" so that the Optimizer takes them into account as part of what to correct, or not. I'm not sure just where being able to do all of this in an AIO for the entire set of JBL/Revel speakers is possible with the SDP-75 in the near term, or what the status is longer-term, though.

Interesting. For Wisdom speakers, a "regular" Altitude is used but you can load all of the PEQs & crossovers for bi-amped speakers that can be supplied. There is a set of PEQs for every speaker in the Wisdom Line. A much more user friendly approach, based upon what you said, than the JBL approach (\--- and if were to ever change speakers, it would be to Wisdom.

I am in Atlanta calibrating a Trinnov Altitude 16 (at the moment)/Wisdom system (with 6 Seaton F18s). Only the LCRs are Wisdom but my bet is that within 90 days, the surrounds will be as well.

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post #7627 of 9096 Old 06-27-2019, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Pasich View Post
It would be better with all XLR. I can’t find an audiophile quality DB25 to XLR adapters (I use AudioQuest Yukon cables) so I guess this isn’t for me. Oh well, maybe something will come out someday that will make me happy. Thanks for everyone’s advise.

I used to use the Mogami: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...d-db25-xlrm-15


Very well done, high quality cable. Highly recommended.

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post #7628 of 9096 Old 06-28-2019, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Interesting. For Wisdom speakers, a "regular" Altitude is used but you can load all of the PEQs & crossovers for bi-amped speakers that can be supplied. There is a set of PEQs for every speaker in the Wisdom Line. A much more user friendly approach, based upon what you said, than the JBL approach (\--- and if were to ever change speakers, it would be to Wisdom.

I am in Atlanta calibrating a Trinnov Altitude 16 (at the moment)/Wisdom system (with 6 Seaton F18s). Only the LCRs are Wisdom but my bet is that within 90 days, the surrounds will be as well.
Will be interested to know how you get on Chuck, I remember a few years ago the UK Datasat calibrators having a bit of nightmare trying to use Dirac with Wisdom, it just couldn't handle the transition between the ribbons and the regular drivers - caused all sorts of phase issues apparently. In the end they gave up and resorted to vanilla PEQ. Will be interesting to see how Trinnov Optimizer handles them.
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post #7629 of 9096 Old 06-28-2019, 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Will be interested to know how you get on Chuck, I remember a few years ago the UK Datasat calibrators having a bit of nightmare trying to use Dirac with Wisdom, it just couldn't handle the transition between the ribbons and the regular drivers - caused all sorts of phase issues apparently. In the end they gave up and resorted to vanilla PEQ. Will be interesting to see how Trinnov Optimizer handles them.
Me too.

One of the settings provided by Wisdom is to set the ribbons in these speakers to negative polarity. The last time I calibrated this room, when I ran the calibration on just the bi-amped speakers, it turned "off" the reverse polarity and I assumed (as it turns out, that was an incorrect assumption) that it should have done that and finished the entire system calibration. And it did not sound correct. I should have turned the reverse polarity back on after the bi-amped speaker calibration and then run the full Optimizer. I was informed that on occasion Optimizer can get confused if the actual out of phase condition is near 90 degrees, it "guesses" which is correct and sometimes gets it wrong. This time, I will do it the right way.

FWIW, the first time I calibrated another Wisdom system, but with an RS20i, I never could get it to sound correct so ended up doing the same thing: Just a vanilla PEQ, All I know is that when I have heard these speakers under "show conditions" they sound terrific.

This morning I will have a Trinnov person connected to the system when I do this part of the calibration to insure I get it correct.

OT: Check out the LFE response south of 20Hz after PEQ but not yet run Optimizer:

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post #7630 of 9096 Old 06-28-2019, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Interesting. For Wisdom speakers, a "regular" Altitude is used but you can load all of the PEQs & crossovers for bi-amped speakers that can be supplied. There is a set of PEQs for every speaker in the Wisdom Line. A much more user friendly approach, based upon what you said, than the JBL approach (\--- and if were to ever change speakers, it would be to Wisdom.

I am in Atlanta calibrating a Trinnov Altitude 16 (at the moment)/Wisdom system (with 6 Seaton F18s). Only the LCRs are Wisdom but my bet is that within 90 days, the surrounds will be as well.

Nice room ... impressive set of speakers .... but as a french citizen what i appreciate the most is the wine reserve on the right side
Or maybe it is just there to be used as an acoustic diffuser

Coming back to filters, the Altitude settings are numerous and in my mind are flexible enough to handle all types of speakers.
Is it not the case here ? why are JBL or Wisdom having specific settings ? or is it just about getting the correct values into the standard settings ?

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post #7631 of 9096 Old 06-28-2019, 04:42 AM
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Thanks. It is a nice room but not mine - belongs to a client. His growing wine collection is incredible. As for the Wisdom settings, these are bi-amped speakers and the settings are phase, respective levels and anechoic PEQs. Can’t speak to the JBL settings.
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post #7632 of 9096 Old 06-28-2019, 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
OT: Check out the LFE response south of 20Hz after PEQ but not yet run Optimizer:


Close to ruler flat all the way to 5Hz - amazing! Your client made a serious upgrade from his 2-12" subs for 9000 cu ft! A phenomenal room when he's done.

Steve

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post #7633 of 9096 Old 06-28-2019, 05:34 AM
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Hi Guys,


My center TAD horn has arrived so I will be placing my center speaker next week.


Right now my L and R is less than 30 degree because, it hits the subwoofer sidewall.



How important the 30 degree placement for L and R in Trinnov? Can I get away with less?

I can place L and R speakers in front of the sub to get 30 degree but that will make

the distance to MLP shorter than Center to MLP.



Any feedback is greatly appreciated.


Thanks
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post #7634 of 9096 Old 06-28-2019, 09:35 AM
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Anything between 18 and 36 will be fine. But a good basic rule (in my opinion) is that the distance between the left and right (front) speakers equals the distance between each individual speaker to the MLP.

Edit:
The Altitude handles what ever you set up; that is not a problem. 18-36 is the recommendations I've heard someone tell me a while back.

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post #7635 of 9096 Old 06-28-2019, 10:59 AM
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Extreme amount of object channels might be a bit hard statement.... you can send as many object channels as the standard allows. No media will contain more; hence not a problem

With HDMI 2.1 in the future, we will get support for more audio objects. There will be a HDMI 2.1 board upgrade available for the Altitude16 and 32 - when the HDMI 2.1 standard is set. But I'm not expecting a new UHD blu-ray standard anytime soon. So no rush

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post #7636 of 9096 Old 06-28-2019, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Interesting. For Wisdom speakers, a "regular" Altitude is used but you can load all of the PEQs & crossovers for bi-amped speakers that can be supplied. There is a set of PEQs for every speaker in the Wisdom Line. A much more user friendly approach, based upon what you said, than the JBL approach (\--- and if were to ever change speakers, it would be to Wisdom.

I am in Atlanta calibrating a Trinnov Altitude 16 (at the moment)/Wisdom system (with 6 Seaton F18s). Only the LCRs are Wisdom but my bet is that within 90 days, the surrounds will be as well.

Wow, LCR's are narrow! Is it even 45° at the listening position?

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post #7637 of 9096 Old 06-28-2019, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by kamenoff View Post
I used to use the Mogami: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...d-db25-xlrm-15


Very well done, high quality cable. Highly recommended.
I specify those cables in most systems as well, unless I am using the digital outputs into a QSC Core. I figure if Mogami is good enough for the broadcast and studio environment where the content was created, it should be good enough for playback.
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post #7638 of 9096 Old 06-28-2019, 03:48 PM
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Wow, LCR's are narrow! Is it even 45° at the listening position?

Very narrow. I would guess about 45 degrees. I moved the seating position up a bit to get a slightly improved angle but I can only move so much. Far from ideal.
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post #7639 of 9096 Old 06-28-2019, 04:12 PM
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Very narrow. I would guess about 45 degrees. I moved the seating position up a bit to get a slightly improved angle but I can only move so much. Far from ideal.
I hate when clients mess up a perfectly good bunch of equipment!

Most of the rooms I work in are a very fixed design. By the time I show up, nothing can be moved. Recently I've worked in 3 rooms where I was able to move almost everything; seats, LCR's and subs. Always a trade off between wonderful aesthetically pleasing rooms and having everything exposed. With enough engineering and design, the pretty rooms will of course have outstanding performance, but sometimes you just want to kick a sub 6" further and see what happens, maybe toe in the L&R one more click but you can't get behind the 16' motorized masking screen and I sure can't remove it by myself, and and...

Lab 2.0 will have none of those constraints I tell you! I might even make the building movable so I can test if orientation along magnetic fields and ley lines changes anything!

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post #7640 of 9096 Old 06-28-2019, 05:40 PM
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I might even make the building movable so I can test if orientation along......ley lines changes anything!
Careful, Adam. Certain configurations may disturb the space-time continuum and you don’t want Cthulhu showing up to spoil your fun.
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post #7641 of 9096 Old 06-28-2019, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike_Pasich View Post
It would be better with all XLR. I can’t find an audiophile quality DB25 to XLR adapters (I use AudioQuest Yukon cables) so I guess this isn’t for me. Oh well, maybe something will come out someday that will make me happy. Thanks for everyone’s advise.

proaudiola gets my recommendation for whatever custom cable you want - great service too!
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post #7642 of 9096 Old 06-28-2019, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by appelz View Post
I specify those cables in most systems as well, unless I am using the digital outputs into a QSC Core. I figure if Mogami is good enough for the broadcast and studio environment where the content was created, it should be good enough for playback.
Curious which cable do you use for digital connection from Altitude to Core? And do you normally use a bunch of CAES4 cards or the CIAES-16 card?
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post #7643 of 9096 Old 06-28-2019, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Apgood View Post
Curious which cable do you use for digital connection from Altitude to Core? And do you normally use a bunch of CAES4 cards or the CIAES-16 card?
I use the CIAES-16 card, primarily to save $$ for clients. A Core510 has 8 card slots, so I can drop in 4 CAES4 cards for 16 inputs, or a single CIAES-16 using one slot. A single CIAES and CIML4 gets me 20 inputs on 2 slots, leaving 6 slots for outputs, so 20 x 24 in one chassis. 13.x.6 or 11.x.8 and multiple free outputs for subs, or bi-amped mains etc.

The CIAES-16 uses RJ45 connectors, and lots of manufacturers make DB25 to dual RJ45 adapters. I like the ones from Ward-Beck.

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post #7644 of 9096 Old 06-28-2019, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by appelz View Post
I use the CIAES-16 card, primarily to save $$ for clients. A Core510 has 8 card slots, so I can drop in 4 CAES4 cards for 16 inputs, or a single CIAES-16 using one slot. A single CIAES and CIML4 gets me 20 inputs on 2 slots, leaving 6 slots for outputs, so 20 x 24 in one chassis. 13.x.6 or 11.x.8 and multiple free outputs for subs, or bi-amped mains etc.



The CIAES-16 uses RJ45 connectors, and lots of manufacturers make DB25 to dual RJ45 adapters. I like the ones from Ward-Beck.
Cool thanks for that.
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post #7645 of 9096 Old 06-29-2019, 01:17 PM
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Is there a way to have the volume at a preset level when you turn the unit on? And if so, can it be different for different inputs? Finally, does the Altitude support ARC?
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post #7646 of 9096 Old 06-29-2019, 02:06 PM
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Posting after doing research online regarding the Crest level too low error while taking measurements. I am using the trinnov 3d mic, and using master 48,000, but no amount of tweaking will allow me to get the Trinnov to accept a measurement. I even tried adjusting the acceptable Crest level. Levels are muted as per the manual.

If anybody has suggestions to help resolve the issue, I am all ears. Appreciate it in advance!

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post #7647 of 9096 Old 06-29-2019, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post
Is there a way to have the volume at a preset level when you turn the unit on? And if so, can it be different for different inputs? Finally, does the Altitude support ARC?
You can select volume on input; this also applies to turning the device on if you select default input. Check master level setting; when I select this input volume will always be set to -40 dB. Magic!



There is no way to pre-select volume based on preset as far as I know.

Edit:
ARC is not supported; but it is a future possibility - the HDMI board used have support for this.
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HT: Trinnov Altitude32 (AL32-1632)/Amplitude8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 802D3, 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
HP: 2*MOON 430HA D, 2*MiND2 Network Player - 2*Yggdrasil - 2*Hydra Z/ZPM - ISOTEK EVO3 Sigmas, Aquarius - NORDOST Heimdall 2 - AUDEZE LCD-4 rev2, 2*LCD-XC - SHURE SE846

Last edited by Berland; 06-29-2019 at 02:30 PM.
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post #7648 of 9096 Old 06-29-2019, 02:28 PM
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Trinnov Altitude

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apgood View Post
Curious which cable do you use for digital connection from Altitude to Core? And do you normally use a bunch of CAES4 cards or the CIAES-16 card?


Quote:
Originally Posted by appelz View Post
I use the CIAES-16 card, primarily to save $$ for clients. A Core510 has 8 card slots, so I can drop in 4 CAES4 cards for 16 inputs, or a single CIAES-16 using one slot. A single CIAES and CIML4 gets me 20 inputs on 2 slots, leaving 6 slots for outputs, so 20 x 24 in one chassis. 13.x.6 or 11.x.8 and multiple free outputs for subs, or bi-amped mains etc.

The CIAES-16 uses RJ45 connectors, and lots of manufacturers make DB25 to dual RJ45 adapters. I like the ones from Ward-Beck.
+1

I’m using one of the CIAES-16 cards into an iframe together with core 110f and the Ward-Beck adapter: Really solid solution for digital audio.


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Trinnov Altitude 32, LCR JBL M2, JBL LSR 708i, 705i, Q-SYS Core 110f, Amps- QSC CXD4.2Q, 4.3Q, 4.5Q
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Last edited by kingwiggi; 06-30-2019 at 04:18 AM.
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post #7649 of 9096 Old 06-29-2019, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post
Posting after doing research online regarding the Crest level too low error while taking measurements. I am using the trinnov 3d mic, and using master 48,000, but no amount of tweaking will allow me to get the Trinnov to accept a measurement. I even tried adjusting the acceptable Crest level. Levels are muted as per the manual.

If anybody has suggestions to help resolve the issue, I am all ears. Appreciate it in advance!
This is a common problem if you don't select the correct input (MIC IN if you use the new calibration microphone; or ANALOG BAL IN 1+2 (MIC 4 XLR) for old style microphone) when doing calibration.

Steps to this this the right way:
- Mute Altitude
- Select MIC IN or MIC 4 (if you use old style microphone) as source (under HOME/SELECT)
- Go to Optimizer Settings/Calibration
- Create a new measurement point or select and existing; then click calibrate (follow instructions)

You need to adjust volume to the right level (start at -40dB; and increase with 5 dB until the system is happy - usually you will get trouble with position of sub's if the volume is too low. Or even better; use REW to find volume that will give you 80 dB.

Please make sure to use the position tab to validate correct alignment of microhone (this only applies to the measurement point marked as Ref). If you need to adjust microphone; run calibration again. Make sure to calculate and save to preset (existing or a new one).

NB! Keep system in MUTE until calibration microphone is turned off and disconnected (this is VERY important).

Edit:
For Altitude16 it is of course easier to use the calibration wizard. Then the system will guide you through the entire process and make all the right selections for you. Rumors say the next software version for Altitude32 also will have this wizard. The wizard will help you to set correct volume as well pre running calibration. But the part regarding verifying microphone alignment/position is not as good using the wizard.
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HT: Trinnov Altitude32 (AL32-1632)/Amplitude8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 802D3, 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
HP: 2*MOON 430HA D, 2*MiND2 Network Player - 2*Yggdrasil - 2*Hydra Z/ZPM - ISOTEK EVO3 Sigmas, Aquarius - NORDOST Heimdall 2 - AUDEZE LCD-4 rev2, 2*LCD-XC - SHURE SE846

Last edited by Berland; 06-29-2019 at 02:52 PM.
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post #7650 of 9096 Old 06-29-2019, 02:49 PM
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Thank you so, so much @Berland ! That fixed my problem instantly. So many hours went by trying to get a measurement accepted
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