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post #7951 of 9388 Old 07-12-2019, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Berland View Post
Currently I'm enjoying some me-time with my Altitude32, while marking where to get the ceiling speakers mounted tomorrow. When will this madness end?.... I know the answer: never

When I started with my laser guided distance measurer and setting black dots in the ceiling - my wife gave up and went to bed

Edit:
9 speakers are a ****load of speakers in the ceiling.... it all gets much clearer when you see the markings.
Installation not completed today. Speakers in place; speakers aligned correctly to MLP; cable raceways in place; Kimber KWIK 16 cables cut in correct lengths and marked (both sides). Only thing missing is putting on the end of cable (banana plug in one end; spade in other end) - and installing them in the cable raceway. Ended up actually using 290 feet of cable.

Process will continue tomorrow by installer.

When this is done; I will put the new Amplitude8M in place and connect the magic. Really looking forward to do this; too bad I will be stuck in a wedding tomorrow; we will leave early
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post #7952 of 9388 Old 07-12-2019, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike_Pasich View Post
I know I’m opening up a can of hurt with this, but does anyone have an opinion on the Storm Audio ISP products? Just wondering if the price difference is really worth it. (Don’t worry, I’m still leaning toward Trinnov, just doing my research)
They are fantastic! But Trinnov is better in my opinion (and more flexible/configurable and future-safe). Storm Audio was looked into before I ended up with the Altitude32.

HT: Trinnov A32 (AL32-1632)/AMP8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 802D3, 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
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post #7953 of 9388 Old 07-12-2019, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Venger99 View Post
Does everyone have bass traps and other room sound treatments or is the altitude able to correct problems without them?
On a similar note, is it now possible to “get away with” only one sub or are multiple still preferable?
Has anyone heard Lyngdorf room perfect correction in comparison to the Trinnov?
Thanks
I have the full works here; it helps a lot - but Optimizer is magic and will be useful regardless. Of course, one does not exclude the other. Use it all; including PEQ and you will be even closer to perfection.

It is possible to overdo the room treatment. Same with the digital form; everything must be used together in correct amounts.
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post #7954 of 9388 Old 07-13-2019, 03:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Berland View Post
Use it all; including PEQ and you will be even closer to perfection.

How does one actually use the PEQ function on the Altitude? I can see from the manual how to apply them but how does one see the effect of any changes made? Via the pink noise function using the 3D mic within the Trinnov or with a separate programme such as REW?
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post #7955 of 9388 Old 07-13-2019, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ringnut View Post
how does one actually use the peq function on the altitude? I can see from the manual how to apply them but how does one see the effect of any changes made? Via the pink noise function using the 3d mic within the trinnov or with a separate programme such as rew?
Using REW (or other alternatives like Omnimic)
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post #7956 of 9388 Old 07-13-2019, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Berland View Post
Using REW (or other alternatives like Omnimic)

Thanks.
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post #7957 of 9388 Old 07-13-2019, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
You can still find a need to adjust music to make up for deficiencies in recording standards (i.e. "circle of confusion") that are less applicable for movies. Or older recordings that were mastered to the old RIAA standard and have significant bass rolloff below, say, 60 Hz.
We all have this issue. However, it obscures the more important point about the room adding additional variability on top of that.

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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
I think we agree that a pre-engineered, acoustically treated space as you, Lon, Art, Steve, Jeff, and many others have done is indeed the platinum standard. However, not everyone can pull that off.

But for multiple rows and seats, and more importantly room dynamics for high performance HT, as a wise person once put it, "bring money" to get the results that, say, you have. No substitute for that. Yet you can get 85% of the way there with knowledge and knowing where to spend.
You must have me confused with someone else. I consider my acoustic implementation to be very inexpensive and one of the best bang for the buck things I did in my theater. I hand built my treatments (except for specialty items) and installed everything myself. I decided that my time would best be spent designing, building and testing my bass array. I farmed out the remaining acoustic design in order to save time and avoid a lengthy iterative design process.

I think most would agree that at least doing the basics of room acoustic treatments will go a long way in allowing the Optimizer to do it's "magic" and minimize the amount of compensation for the room.
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post #7958 of 9388 Old 07-13-2019, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by The Bogg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
If you have compared what we see on the Trinnov graphs section vs what you can get on, for example, REW, the current display capabilities would need some work. And what about plots for RT60 (or any number of other calculations) that are available and useful with external programs? Certainly some of the data may be there, but it would still take resources (and then on-going support) to fully flesh out a useful set of tools. And as I noted, I would much prefer them to use the resources they have to continue to update and maintain their core competency.

Now, if they should all wake one morning and realize the Altitude was already PERFECT, then moving on to what we have been discussing would be a great idea.
I totally get your point. Trinnov doesn't need to include a COMPREHENSIVE measurement suite, but just a simple way to use the existing tools for post-calibration measurements. Users can still use REW or whatever for the other parameters.
Agreed that this would be a waste of effort. There are other display and calibration tools which would be much more useful to add to the interface such as subwoofer optimization (which they are already soooo close to in the active speaker setup).

My preference would be a simple routing/matrixing tool for a measurement input much like their Mic inputs is already dedicated for the Trinnov Optimizer Calibrations. This would allow an test signal to be directly routed to 1 or more speakers. While we can fumble through this in a few ways, this shouldn't be a tricky thing for the Trinnov platform. Mark one of the XLR inputs for external measurement or even using an HDMI or other digital input, and allow temporary routing to channels in the chain before the Optimizer. This can be quickly set up in any pro DSP, so why not in the Trinnov?
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post #7959 of 9388 Old 07-13-2019, 02:08 PM
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Why its a bit cumbersome to run test signals through all channels, at least it is possible!
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post #7960 of 9388 Old 07-13-2019, 02:29 PM
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Trinnov's Altitude 32 page has been very nicely redone, I just noticed, including it having the "Step By Step Wizard"!

https://www.trinnov.com/altitude_32/

No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason! 9.9.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade still in process!
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post #7961 of 9388 Old 07-14-2019, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike_Pasich View Post
Another question (keep in mind everything I do in the future for my man cave will be based on this question) - so you may or may not know that I posted about subwoofer crossovers and got some great advice. My first instinct was like ok I like it better but it needs more beef than what my subs give out. So I though I would just upgrade to the next model up and replace what I have with 2 larger units. Then I remember hearing several demo’s where rooms used 4+ subs and remembered how amazed I was with the sound quality (One system was a Lexicon/Klipsch THX system and the other a JBL Synthesis setup). Though I think I know what I want I would like your opinion on:

Would you replace the existing 2 dual 10” with 2 dual 12 in subs, or add subs that match what have currently and run them in the back of the room for a total of 4 subs? Keep in mind, going with 4 will give me too many channels to ever get Altitude16 so I would just have to go for broke here LOL
Assuming the 10's are the equivalent of the 12's in term of quality, 100% of the time, for rectangular sealed rooms, put 1 10" in each corner vs 2 12's up front - far better results. Far better (better seat-to-seat response and almost always, better pre-Optmizer FR). And you don't need to extend beyond an Altitude 16. External devices of all sorts (miniDSP, Xlica, etc) and price ranges (all of which are less money than expanding your Altitude to more channels) can manage your subs.
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post #7962 of 9388 Old 07-14-2019, 01:43 PM
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This looks like a awesome AVR but the cost is more than i can justify, Anything like 3-5k that comes close to this ?
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post #7963 of 9388 Old 07-14-2019, 04:40 PM
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Trinnov Altitude

Quote:
Originally Posted by telon175 View Post
This looks like a awesome AVR but the cost is more than i can justify, Anything like 3-5k that comes close to this ?

Nope, Nothing that actually works. The only processors that are close to that price range are the monoprice and RMC-1.
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post #7964 of 9388 Old 07-14-2019, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by telon175 View Post
This looks like a awesome AVR but the cost is more than i can justify, Anything like 3-5k that comes close to this ?
Not that comes close.

You might want to look at Marantz, Anthem, and the Lyngdorf MP-50, as keep in mind if you are good at researching on the web you may find some nice discounts from msrp. Lyngdorf may end up somewhat above your top range but I was positively impressed at a friend's home recently - see my review here on this forum. But Trinnov remains in my view the cream of the crop if it fits your needs and what you can afford.

No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason! 9.9.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade still in process!
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post #7965 of 9388 Old 07-14-2019, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Not that comes close.

You might want to look at Marantz, Anthem, and the Lyngdorf MP-50, as keep in mind if you are good at researching on the web you may find some nice discounts from msrp. Lyngdorf may end up somewhat above your top range but I was positively impressed at a friend's home recently - see my review here on this forum. But Trinnov remains in my view the cream of the crop if it fits your needs and what you can afford.
I wouldn't do Marantz unless I wanted to put the learning curve into the MiniDSP 88As with Dirac at a minimum. At the very least, you want mixed phase room EQ and flexible target curve editing to match your in-room performance against the ideal you would want, not the relatively archaic Audyssey XT32 with the crude 1/3 octave app for target curves. Anthem is supposedly better but even with ARC I think it's also just minimum phase and doesn't work in any time domain. Lyngdorf might be OK for you but the room EQ is somewhat of a black box with only a small number of users on AVS. And all are limited to 7.1.4, maybe 7.1.6 or 9.1.4 for the newest Marantz, and are DSP-based meaning that when more flexibility is available, you'll be buying a new pre/pro in all likelihood.

Personally I'd save your $$$$($) and save for the real thing, at least an Altitude 16.
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post #7966 of 9388 Old 07-14-2019, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
...At the very least, you want mixed phase room EQ and flexible target curve editing to match your in-room performance against the ideal you would want, not the relatively archaic Audyssey XT32 with the crude 1/3 octave app for target curves.

Why would you want to make a more ragged target curve than 1/3-oct would allow?

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post #7967 of 9388 Old 07-14-2019, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Why would you want to make a more ragged target curve than 1/3-oct would allow?

It's not the target curve smoothing that is critical. But when looking at the in room response, 1/3 Oct smoothing can hide some frequency anomalies that need to be addressed. When I view my speaker response externally (REW, etc) I always use 1/12 octave smoothing (unless I am just checking relative channel levels in which case I use 1/3rd). I use no smoothing when I am looking at my sub response.
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Last edited by audioguy; 07-15-2019 at 06:53 AM.
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post #7968 of 9388 Old 07-15-2019, 07:16 AM
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Two items:

(1) I think an add-on feature of the Trinnov should be a flashing red light on the VNC page that says: "Moron At The Helm". This past weekend I was fortunate enough to calibrate another Trinnov system. I kept getting the error message about "Crest Factor Too Low". I tried everything I knew to fix the issue and, quite frankly, ran out of ideas. I then looked up from my computer to notice that the Trinnov Mic had the protective cover still in place. Seriously?

(2) Will Neural:X under DTS:X Pro make use of all speakers in the system when up-converting? If so, that might be the impetuous to upgrade to more speakers -- or not!
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post #7969 of 9388 Old 07-15-2019, 09:18 AM
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I am really looking forward to the implementation of dts-x pro, particularly the VOG channel. There are many films I would like to rewatch in dts-x, but I tend to listen to atmos tracks for now, in order to take advantage of object based channels beyond 7.1.4.
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post #7970 of 9388 Old 07-15-2019, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Two items:

(1) I think an add-on feature of the Trinnov should be a flashing red light on the VNC page that says: "Moron At The Helm". This past weekend I was fortunate enough to calibrate another Trinnov system. I kept getting the error message about "Crest Factor Too Low". I tried everything I knew to fix the issue and, quite frankly, ran out of ideas. I then looked up from my computer to notice that the Trinnov Mic had the protective cover still in place. Seriously?
You are not the only "Moron" who had that happen!

No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason! 9.9.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade still in process!
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post #7971 of 9388 Old 07-15-2019, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
That really would be the only reason along the CPU power which may or may not become a factor in the future. I am 100% JBL M2/7 series so being able to use the processor for the tuning files and to utilize the digital is the only benefit I see over the Alt16. I have no intention of going beyond 7.x.4 from a speaker perspective. I think that is the sweet spot for home Atmos at the moment. I see very little ROI with top middles in a single row room. I would like to try wides but there is so little content that uses it why bother. However, I do run 4 subs, so I need at least 15 channels.

There is that too.....but I typically don't succumb to peer pressure

The Alt16 is fixed at 16 channels with no expand-ability. It doesn't have digital outs and is limited to 24/96
The Alt32 is modular available with 8, 16, 24, or 32 channels. It has digital outs and is 24/192 on up to 16 channels. It also has an i7 processor vs the i3 on the Alt16.

You have to make the decision on which way you want to go at purchase. I told my dealer to hold my order until I decide. The 16 is a serious kick in the financial balls, while the 32 requires giving up a testicle. First world problems...... I can't believe I am actually having this discussion and spending this kind of money I drive used vehicles and don't really have any other hobbies, so this is my guilty pleasure I guess. I think I need a beer....

So are you saying you choose how many channels the Alt32 comes with when you order? It doesn't just come with 32 channels stock? And I take it price goes up with more channels you choose too!

Okay so 24/192 up to 16 channels. What is it using all 32 channels? What use cases do the AES digital outputs have?

Would it be possible to mirror two sets of 16 channels? First 16 channels goes to something like an XLR Audio Interface. Then mirror the second set of 16 channels to go a traditional speaker layout?
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post #7972 of 9388 Old 07-15-2019, 10:45 AM
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If the Audyssey app's display resolution is limited to 1/3 oct, I totally agree.


Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
It's not the target curve smoothing that is critical. But when looking at the in room response, 1/3 Oct smoothing can hide some frequency anomalies that need to be addressed. When I view my speaker response externally (REW, etc) I always use 1/12 octave smoothing (unless I am just checking relative channel levels in which case I use 1/3rd). I use no smoothing when I am looking at my sub response.

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post #7973 of 9388 Old 07-15-2019, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Seraphic- View Post
So are you saying you choose how many channels the Alt32 comes with when you order? It doesn't just come with 32 channels stock? And I take it price goes up with more channels you choose too!
The Altitude 32 processes up to 192-24 and is available in 8, 16, 24 or 32 channels, and if you get one with less channels it can be upgraded up to 32 channels.

https://www.trinnov.com/altitude_32/

I originally got 16 channels and shortly thereafter upgraded to 24 channels.
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post #7974 of 9388 Old 07-15-2019, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Seraphic- View Post
So are you saying you choose how many channels the Alt32 comes with when you order? It doesn't just come with 32 channels stock? And I take it price goes up with more channels you choose too!

Okay so 24/192 up to 16 channels. What is it using all 32 channels? What use cases do the AES digital outputs have?

Would it be possible to mirror two sets of 16 channels? First 16 channels goes to something like an XLR Audio Interface. Then mirror the second set of 16 channels to go a traditional speaker layout?


On order, you can opt for a 8,16,24,32 and also 48 channels.


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post #7975 of 9388 Old 07-15-2019, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
The Altitude 32 processes up to 192-24 and is available in 8, 16, 24 or 32 channels, and if you get one with less channels it can be upgraded up to 32 channels.

https://www.trinnov.com/altitude_32/

I originally got 16 channels and shortly thereafter upgraded to 24 channels.

This is kind of an odd question so not sure if you can answer. But since you have the 24 channels going, is it possible to have two sets of 12 channels mirrored/duplicated going to say two different speaker layouts (for example)?
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post #7976 of 9388 Old 07-15-2019, 02:11 PM
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This is kind of an odd question so not sure if you can answer. But since you have the 24 channels going, is it possible to have two sets of 12 channels mirrored/duplicated going to say two different speaker layouts (for example)?
You could technically have two separate profiles with difference speaker layouts and engage them as needed. So basically yes. However, since some channels would share positions (mains, center) you shouldn't require 12/12.

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post #7977 of 9388 Old 07-15-2019, 02:40 PM
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You are not the only "Moron" who had that happen!
Had a similar experience while tuning remotely with Curt Hoyt, he ran the calibration and said for me to look into an issue with the rear left speaker perhaps the pilaster it was enclosed in was not set correctly as the measurement was off for this speaker. We both were scratching our heads until I realized I had the laptop set on the bar open and in the direct pathway of Mic and rear left speaker, closed laptop and error was gone. All solutions should be that easy. Dumb meter should have gone off
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post #7978 of 9388 Old 07-15-2019, 02:42 PM
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I want to pass on compliments and recommendations to Chuck Gerlach, who came to my home this past weekend and set up/calibrated my Altitude 16.

My set up uses Starke Sound Speakers with 2 Funk Audio Subs and 1 Seaton Submersive Sub for a 7.3.6 system. My previous processor was the Marantz 8802A and lets just say its not even in the ballpark of the Trinnov. Chuck did an unbelievable job of calibrating my system and I could not be more pleased with the results. I knew my Starks Sound Speakers were very articulate and adding the Trinnov brought out the best in everything. I can't fathom the immersive sound of this system being outperformed by anything else.

If in need of a calibrator for Trinnov, Chuck Gerlach is another option. He goes by audioguy on this site.

Thanks Chuck,

Kim
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post #7979 of 9388 Old 07-15-2019, 03:05 PM
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I want to pass on compliments and recommendations to Chuck Gerlach, who came to my home this past weekend and set up/calibrated my Altitude 16.

My set up uses Starke Sound Speakers with 2 Funk Audio Subs and 1 Seaton Submersive Sub for a 7.3.6 system. My previous processor was the Marantz 8802A and lets just say its not even in the ballpark of the Trinnov. Chuck did an unbelievable job of calibrating my system and I could not be more pleased with the results. I knew my Starks Sound Speakers were very articulate and adding the Trinnov brought out the best in everything. I can't fathom the immersive sound of this system being outperformed by anything else.

If in need of a calibrator for Trinnov, Chuck Gerlach is another option. He goes by audioguy on this site.

Thanks Chuck,

Kim
Kim: Thank you for the kind words. It is always fascinating to hear a room and system come together. The Trinnov is one amazing piece of technology. Your speakers are beautiful, the Funk subs are amazing (and beautiful), your projector is incredibly bright on your 12 foot screen, and you did a fabulous job on the room itself.

Enjoy ... and thanks again.

Chuck
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post #7980 of 9388 Old 07-15-2019, 03:32 PM
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Kim: Thank you for the kind words. It is always fascinating to hear a room and system come together. The Trinnov is one amazing piece of technology. Your speakers are beautiful, the Funk subs are amazing (and beautiful), your projector is incredibly bright on your 12 foot screen, and you did a fabulous job on the room itself.

Enjoy ... and thanks again.

Chuck
Chuck,
The brisket in San Antonio is to die for. You really should come out for a visit
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