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post #8011 of 11112 Old 07-16-2019, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
I have heard this box mentioned several times. Other than a web interface (which would be really, really nice BTW vs a stupid USB cable) what benefits does it have over the MiniDSP?
For me, XLR Input/Outputs, delay flexibility up to 650 ms (vs. 7.5 ms), and 8 PEQ slots per input or output. Plus build quality, possibly.

But the MiniDSP can do level adjustments in 0.1 db increments vs. the 0.25 in the Xilica, and I think the PEQ is limited to 20 Hz on the low side, if that matters to you for the individual sub management. Not sure if the MiniDSP has the same range of level adjustments (-45 db to +15 db) though, but I doubt that would matter much. But where you're coming from, I'd stick with the MiniDSP unless there's some compelling reason not to.

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post #8012 of 11112 Old 07-16-2019, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
For me, XLR Input/Outputs, delay flexibility up to 650 ms (vs. 7.5 ms), and 8 PEQ slots per input or output. Plus build quality, possibly.

But the MiniDSP can do level adjustments in 0.1 db increments vs. the 0.25 in the Xilica, and I think the PEQ is limited to 20 Hz on the low side, if that matters to you for the individual sub management. Not sure if the MiniDSP has the same range of level adjustments (-45 db to +15 db) though, but I doubt that would matter much. But where you're coming from, I'd stick with the MiniDSP unless there's some compelling reason not to.
Build quality, definitely. No comparison. The minidsp is a simple, inexpensive small circuit board in a simple, inexpensive box with no separate ground vs a real rack-mounted pro level device that has LED's for levels in & out, mute or active, front panel control buttons and jog wheel for adjustments. Plus, there's the issue of how the minidsp is protected both from RF interference and as an emitter of RF (lack of shielding). Xilica is a 120v device, while the mini uses a 12v walwart.

Many like & use the minidsp products, but it didn't work for me. If you use URC remotes & controls, you are total SOL with the minidsp due to massive RF interference in the same freq band that normal URC's use (418mhz). After a week of figgling, changing positions, cable routing and even trying a faraday cage box over the minidsp, nothing resolved the interference and I bought a Xilica XP2040. To show how poorly the minidsp is shielded, I could block some of the RF simply by putting the bones of my hand over the area where the DSP chip was on the circuit board - no joke. I could literally see the interference light flicker on & off on the URC's receiver antenna just by waving my hand around the box. I could locate the minidsp 10's of feet away and it still messed up my URC controller's operation.

The Xilica was one of the best gear choices I've made and should have bought it in the 1st place. And controlling it at my desk over ethernet sure beats having to put my laptop on a stool several feet away with USB.

Xilica's software is very straightforward but so is the minidsp. You can do more device & settings management with Xilica's. Read some of minidsp's documentation, then look at Xilica's instructional youtubes for their X-console software to get a comparison. Unlike minidsp, you can download Xilica's software for free, install, and see how it works before buying a unit. Another plus, IMO.

Just pointing out some downsides. The upside is the 2x4HD (RCA unbalanced) is $200 vs $900ish for the Xilica XP2040 with XLR I/O.

YMMV, like we know, many use & have success with minidsp.

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post #8013 of 11112 Old 07-16-2019, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
That is the direction I was leaning as well but that was because it was already set up and wired Lazy bird doesn't get the worm but he doesn't have to change things. What is your reasoning?

How/why did you do it that way? Did you PEQ the summed channel on the Trinnov vs PEQ for each channel on the MiniDSP? Or something different?
I've used a miniDSP or equivalent for 20 years. It's just easier and provides more flexibility. In the environments prior to the Trinnov, none of the other processor handled multiple subs very well. In almost all cases you don't want to PEQ sub individually. Correct them as one.
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post #8014 of 11112 Old 07-16-2019, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
If you have the spare channels and don't plan any upgrades, you can do the same thing in the Altitude using the Active Crossovers and available outputs to define the individual channels, with MSO-style level and delay entered in after a run. From that point you can either do PEQ for each n-way sub individually using the PEQ menu, or globally across all subs at one time.
Can the MSO biquads/filters be loaded into the Trinnov? That's where a lot of the MSO magic lies. Not sure what "Q" Trinnov uses, but I know that it has to be matched for the filters to turn out correct. It would be great if the miniDSP could be eliminated.
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post #8015 of 11112 Old 07-16-2019, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
I started reading the MSO instructions about a year ago but I went Charlie Brown "...wah...wah...wah..wah" after about 10 minutes. Obviously, I am going to have to go back and read, read some more, and then implement.

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post #8016 of 11112 Old 07-16-2019, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
Can the MSO biquads/filters be loaded into the Trinnov? That's where a lot of the MSO magic lies. Not sure what "Q" Trinnov uses, but I know that it has to be matched for the filters to turn out correct. It would be great if the miniDSP could be eliminated.
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post #8017 of 11112 Old 07-16-2019, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
Can the MSO biquads/filters be loaded into the Trinnov? That's where a lot of the MSO magic lies.
Afraid not, you have to enter the settings (central frequency, level, Q value) for each filter manually. I just take them from the report, copy and print in Excel, and enter. It's not quite as convenient but it works.

Quote:
Not sure what "Q" Trinnov uses, but I know that it has to be matched for the filters to turn out correct. It would be great if the miniDSP could be eliminated.
I asked Andy C, the author of MSO, about this quite awhile back on the MSO thread, and I believe it's Q(RBJ), as used in REW. See here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post54932984

Details about the two Q formats are discussed here:
https://www.andyc.diy-audio-engineer...atibility.html
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post #8018 of 11112 Old 07-17-2019, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post
I am in the process of setting up a .12 system, including front center ceiling height and VOG. Are you saying that the remapping in the Trinnov would obviate adding the front ceiling height and VOG by the remapping feature?

Thanks
No, I would like both - but if I needed to decide on one I would go for the Ctf. The point of this is that the Ctf will be used to lift the center (floor) speaker if that is located below the screen. VOG (or T; or T0) can be created based on Ltm and Rtm via remapping.

So the best will of course be to go full blown .12.

Edit:
Keep in mind that many releases are restricted to channels used (even if they are "atmos" with sound from ceiling; they don't use audio objects. So I have seen atmos titles only using Ltm and Rtm in ceiling (hence, 6 of the ceiling speakers will be unused). Ctf and VOG are not supported by Atmos currently.
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post #8019 of 11112 Old 07-17-2019, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Berland View Post
No, I would like both - but if I needed to decide on one I would go for the Ctf. The point of this is that the Ctf will be used to lift the center (floor) speaker if that is located below the screen. VOG (or T; or T0) can be created based on Ltm and Rtm via remapping.

So the best will of course be to go full blown .12.

Edit:
Keep in mind that many releases are restricted to channels used (even if they are "atmos" with sound from ceiling; they don't use audio objects. So I have seen atmos titles only using Ltm and Rtm in ceiling (hence, 6 of the ceiling speakers will be unused). Ctf and VOG are not supported by Atmos currently.
Thanks for the response. It is my understanding that atmos is placing objects. So, if sound is traveling overhead, that a speaker in that position should activate on the Trinnov.

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post #8020 of 11112 Old 07-17-2019, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
I used to think that was true too, but it doesn't appear to be the case. Sadly, many speakers beyond 7.4 remain silent from my reading. The speakers rendered are movie/mix dependent. Stu and the others that have a lot of channels can verify and correct me if I am wrong/misunderstanding.
Dolby Atmos support by default 10 channel 7.1.2 bed; and in addition objects. Many releases does not use objects; that is the main problem. Seems like some are hardwired to 7.1.2 or 7.1.4 as well, while other titles utilize all atmos-channels available. I suspect this is not the problem with DTS:X, but of course currently there is a license restriction on DTS:X that limits playback to maximum 11 channels + 1 sub - this limitation will be gone when we get DTS:X Pro.

Edit:
These stupid atmos limitations can not be blamed on Trinnov, but on the companies destroying the audio-stream on the movies when they release to blu-ray.

In my opinion if you set up 8 atmos ceiling speakers; you are covered. If possibile add VOG and Ctf in addition. If you want to go completely wild; add 2 more atmos speakers

Edit2:
I saw the UHD blu-ray of Hunter Killer [2018] yesterday; that utilized all 8 atmos speakers on my setup. Dialogue was not good in some scenes; but mostly ok. The usage of audio objects on the other hand were spectacular.

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post #8021 of 11112 Old 07-17-2019, 06:58 AM
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@Berland - Agreed it isn't Trinnov's fault, but it does cripple the benefits of having speakers beyond 7.x.4 and provides very little ROI for the Trinnov Alt32 vs Alt16, the hardware/license cost to buy more channels within the Alt32, speakers, amps, and install. Even if DTS:X Pro allows more channels, the movie selection of DTS:X is lacking, in my opinion, to the Dolby Atmos offerings. To make matters worse, you can't run DTS:X upmixer on native Dolby Atmos content. Dolby has literally handcuffed Trinnov and other manufactures that provide more than 7.x.4 channels. I am sure it sounds amazing when a source is played that is able to take advantage of all the channels, but those sources are far and few in between right now with no indication that it is going to get better. Personally, I couldn't justify the cost of the Alt32 and the associated hardware for it to sit idle waiting for that proverbial "check is in the mail" that may never get sent. Few native sources exists for the minority of "beyond 7.x.4" residential customers excluding up-mixing music and older movies. There is little to no voice or buying power/volume to sway them i.e. Dolby to change. Granted, there is a nice benefit of being able to matrix channels in multi-row home theaters, but that is little to no consolation to those who bought the Trinnov Alt32 expecting that bombastic immersive audio experience. On top of all this mess, we have the "cherry on top" with Disney neutering their audio mixes.
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7.1.4 is a limitation of Home Atmos format at the moment. One of the interest of the Altitude 32 is that you can use the other channel in order to work with bi-amp or tri-amp your front speakers L,C,R, you can use some channel to create an array like on a real cinema configuration for non-atmos content, etc

But I agree that the price difference is very important. That’s the reason why I’m trying to convince me that I should order the A16 instead of an A32....


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post #8023 of 11112 Old 07-17-2019, 12:22 PM
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7.1.4 is a limitation of Home Atmos format at the moment.
Only on some Disney titles to my knowledge.

If it says 7.1.4 Atmos on the back then it is a locked 7.1.4, if it just says Atmos, then it should use proper objects.

Maybe I am wrong.

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post #8024 of 11112 Old 07-17-2019, 12:24 PM
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7.1.4 is a limitation of Home Atmos format at the moment.
No, it's not. It's a limitation of DSP chip processing in mainstream processors (ranging from Onkyo to Datasat), but Trinnov can render discretely to any speaker configuration supported by Atmos (e.g. 9.1.6 with wides and top middles, 11.1.4 with wides and front side surrounds, 9.1.8 with wides, front heights, top front/middle/rear heights), etc. as supported by the Altitude license you have for the available number of channels. Likewise, Storm Audio has an embyronic version that can do 9.1.6, and Denon/Marantz has a flagship that can support 7.1.6 or 9.1.4, but that's it until Monoprice or Emotiva (LOL) proves successfully otherwise in the DSP world.

All of these are "Home Atmos". That is, they utilize the Atmos plug-in rendering for the layout(s) supported by the consumer version of Atmos, as opposed to the theatrical. How much to do so is, in the case of everyone by Trinnov, limited by DSP processing power.

What is a practical limitation is how mixers and the studios utilize these channels. As we've lamented to death, Disney is fixated on hard-wired 7.1.4 mixes, but other studios aren't quite so limited by and large. You can have mixers that JUST assign objects in space so that they can be reproduced by 9.1.6 or 11.1.6, others that are very free form in what they do (see the mix of The House with a Clock on Its Walls or Gravity) and liberal with where they decide to encode objects in space with the metadata, mixes at are "just" 7.1.6 (I want to say Kingsman), and so on.

Quote:
One of the interest of the Altitude 32 is that you can use the other channel in order to work with bi-amp or tri-amp your front speakers L,C,R, you can use some channel to create an array like on a real cinema configuration for non-atmos content, etc
True. Note that you can't currently do an array like theatrical Atmos where you have multiple speakers natively reproduce an object passthrough to, say, front surround 1 to multiple front surround speakers accurately in dimensionalizing the object space, meaning avoiding the six foot tall helicopter blade as it passes through all arrayed speakers at the same time. Home Atmos doesn't "know" what an array supposed to be.

Quote:
But I agree that the price difference is very important. That’s the reason why I’m trying to convince me that I should order the A16 instead of an A32....
Depends on your needs. And that, as Trinnov is noting in the articles Jon Herron's penning for WSR as well as the designs supported by The Cedia Designer (which I have a subscription to, BTW), is directly related to the number of rows and seats in an HT as well as how wide the front LCR speaker angles are, which gets into viewing angle and feasible screen width. Whether you need channels available for active crossover such as bi and tri amping, or multiple subs, layouts designed to support remapping (e.g. needing to have a Ctf due to a center channel located below the screen to pull the center channel image up), or wanting extra channels available outside of some Atmos layout to better support Auro or DTS:X Pro is up to you.

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post #8025 of 11112 Old 07-17-2019, 01:03 PM
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I was going to jump in but Stu beat me and with detailed info

Like everyone else, I've seen all overheads in use with various titles and only the top fronts & rears or top mids solely used with others. An example of rendering to all available Atmos speakers is Hurricane Heist, lights them all up.

Two recently viewed titles seem to have the fixed channels syndrome: Mary, Queen of Scots (7.1.2) and the scifi film Annhilation (7.1.4). MQoS used only the top mids (I expect due to phantom imaging between TF & TR) and Annhilation only used TF &TR, no TM.
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post #8026 of 11112 Old 07-17-2019, 01:38 PM
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I am confused. I remember you and Sanjay talking about Saving Private Ryan where the heights weren't being utilized. I don't remember the specifics of what was working and what was not working. Are you saying that outside of Disney, if one has 6 or 8 top speakers and wides they will all experience output with a Atmos movie?
Saving Private Ryan does not use the wides it seems, but sound in all ceiling speakers (very little in Lfh and Rfh).



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post #8027 of 11112 Old 07-17-2019, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
Thanks Berland. I would love to hear your system, I bet it is off the charts impressive!
I'm fairly happy, still need to PEQ the ceiling speakers first. Tomorrow is the plan....

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post #8028 of 11112 Old 07-17-2019, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
Thanks Berland. I would love to hear your system, I bet it is off the charts impressive!
On Saving Private Ryan, almost all of the overhead content is in the top middles if you have six overheads and are using them. That would seem to imply an essentially static use of the overheads in a stereo (.2) format along with the 7 floor-based bed channels. The only noticeable (barely) moment where the top front and rears are at all audible is at the beginning of the film, set with an elderly Ryan visiting a French cemetery with his family. You can just hear some musical cues (horns I want to say) in the front and rear overheads if you listen closer to reference. The rest of the movie's overhead effects, other than the end that I don't remember checking, is in the top middles alone regardless of whether you get peripheral lighting up of the overhead fronts and rears.

Note that if you're running four overheads, TF/RF or FH/RH, the middles gets split between the front and rears. I vaguely remember that split not being even (more front oriented), but it's been awhile since I checked.

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post #8029 of 11112 Old 07-18-2019, 12:13 AM
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On Saving Private Ryan, almost all of the overhead content is in the top middles if you have six overheads and are using them. That would seem to imply an essentially static use of the overheads in a stereo (.2) format along with the 7 floor-based bed channels. The only noticeable (barely) moment where the top front and rears are at all audible is at the beginning of the film, set with an elderly Ryan visiting a French cemetery with his family. You can just hear some musical cues (horns I want to say) in the front and rear overheads if you listen closer to reference. The rest of the movie's overhead effects, other than the end that I don't remember checking, is in the top middles alone regardless of whether you get peripheral lighting up of the overhead fronts and rears.

Note that if you're running four overheads, TF/RF or FH/RH, the middles gets split between the front and rears. I vaguely remember that split not being even (more front oriented), but it's been awhile since I checked.
It is correct that there are most sound in the Ltm and Rtm speakers. I'm running 9 speakers in ceiling. And regarding Lfh and Rfh you are right; very little sound there (I have not checked the entire movie, but at least as you say there is sound in the beginning of the movie). Ltf, Rtf, Ltr and Rtr all got sound.

I would say that the transfer to atmos of Saving Private Ryan is an afterthought - not done 100%. In the opening sequence when you look out from the beach over the sea - with the Germans shooting from high ground behind the camera-view; nothing in Ltr or Rtr - which of course would add a more realistic dimension in the audio.

So you are right, not perfect, but better than 5.1

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post #8030 of 11112 Old 07-18-2019, 05:41 AM
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So you are right, not perfect, but better than 5.1


It really is a shame that still so very few titles (even the more currently released titles) take advantage of more than 7.x.4. While this would be just a guess on my part, but given the move to streaming, where very few end users could take advantage of a higher channel count movie, Hollywood is just playing to the lowest common denominator. Those of us who can support the better mixed movies are, at best, an after thought.
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post #8031 of 11112 Old 07-18-2019, 07:03 AM
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It really is a shame that still so very few titles (even the more currently released titles) take advantage of more than 7.x.4. While this would be just a guess on my part, but given the move to streaming, where very few end users could take advantage of a higher channel count movie, Hollywood is just playing to the lowest common denominator. Those of us who can support the better mixed movies are, at best, an after thought.
That is what I was trying to convey. The current generation are just not into high fidelity and stereo systems like we were. When I was in my teens and twenties, stereo components and speakers were very popular. Every major department store had Sony, Kenwood, Technics, Yamaha, Pioneeer, etc stereo cabinets on display which always had crowds around them. Almost every home had a set of speakers with a turntable or cd player. Every mall had a video store and a music store. Magazine racks had handfuls of monthly periodicals on hifi gear. For the most part, all of this is gone. Case in point, I offered my daughter and her husband a complete set of 5 JBL speakers, a sub, and a Denon receiver that I had taken out of service for free. To my surprise, they graciously declined the offer and bought a sound bar instead. They stated that they simply didn't need all of that "stuff" for watching TV and movies and it cluttered the living room. I was forced to revoke my son-in-law's "man card" on the spot. The industry is changing to the next generation that primarily watches media on tablets and computers vs large TV screens with sound systems comprising numerous speakers.

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post #8032 of 11112 Old 07-18-2019, 07:10 AM
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That is what I was trying to convey. The current generation are just not into high fidelity and stereo systems like we were. When I was in my teens and twenties, stereo components and speakers were very popular. Every major department store had Sony, Kenwood, Technics, Yamaha, Pioneeer, etc stereo cabinets on display. They always had crowds around them. Almost every home had a set of speakers with a turntable/cd player. Every mall had a video store and a record/cd store. Magazine racks had a handful of monthly periodicals on hifi gear. For the most part, all of this is gone. Case in point, I offered my daughter and her husband some a complete set of 5 JBL speakers, a sub, and a Denon receiver that I had taken out of service for free. To my surprise, they graciously declined the offer and bought a sound bar instead. The stated they simply didn't need all of that "stuff" for watching TV and movies and it cluttered the living room. I was forced to revoke my son-in-law's "man card" on the spot. The industry is changing to the next generation that primarily watches media on tablets and computers vs large TV screens and sound systems with numerous speakers.

I was pretty much just typing the same thing...

Unfortunately, I believe those that frequent these forums, and this one in particular, are in a small minority of the general market. Hopefully, we don't just become completely insignificant at some point. For example, my family & friends. Everyone, except for me, and maybe my wife and kids just because they know better, cares very little about audio or video quality. They want convenience and speed. If that results in 2 channel stereo and a 480p image they could care less. We are a visual society so maybe people care a bit more about picture quality but most don't even know or care about great audio. A good sound bar and they are in heaven. I'm not judging, I'm just hoping those of us that enjoy this hobby at a different degree than most everyone else stay relevant.
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post #8033 of 11112 Old 07-18-2019, 02:00 PM
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It really is a shame that still so very few titles (even the more currently released titles) take advantage of more than 7.x.4. While this would be just a guess on my part, but given the move to streaming, where very few end users could take advantage of a higher channel count movie, Hollywood is just playing to the lowest common denominator. Those of us who can support the better mixed movies are, at best, an after thought.
I hope they will soon go for cinema audio mix on UHD blu-ray. With HDMI 2.1, there is enough bandwidth to make this happen. Then Hollywood can save money; not doing anything else than transfer the existing audio mix to blu-ray; and they're done. Money rules, so I'm hopeful here, and the hardware in Altitude will handle this I'm sure.

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post #8034 of 11112 Old 07-18-2019, 03:24 PM
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I hope they will soon go for cinema audio mix on UHD blu-ray. With HDMI 2.1, there is enough bandwidth to make this happen. Then Hollywood can save money; not doing anything else than transfer the existing audio mix to blu-ray; and they're done. Money rules, so I'm hopeful here, and the hardware in Altitude will handle this I'm sure.

What does 2.1 have that would address this issue over current standards?

99.999% if films are finished at 48/24... current audio codecs handle 8 channels of that with no issues.

In terms of immersive mixes, there is no way to access or decode a cinema master of an Atmos or DTS:X mix.... the consume codecs don’t support it, and never will.

It’s not about being frugal or pandering to the lowest common denominator...

That has nothing to do with bandwidth limitations of HDMI 2.0.

I won’t debate the merits for doing a home theater mix. I strongly support the workflow and reasonings of why it’s down.

Trust me ... if most studios can find a way to save money they will.... research and experience has taught us that the outlay to do a master for the home markets is money well spent.
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post #8035 of 11112 Old 07-18-2019, 07:33 PM
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Is it fair to assume that you don't anticipate changes for the better beyond 7.1.4? A few sparse titles here and there with the majority of the releases staying within the 7.1.4 realm.

In terms of Atmos titles there are only a handful of discs that have been released as pre rendered to a 7.1.4 pay load.

Definitely in the great minority of titles released.

Atmos renders perfectly well into the supported max channel configuration of 24.1.10.

I just finished mixing Amazon’s second Atmos show. We mixed and monitored in a 7.1.4 environment... for our final studio review of the premiere episode we played back on a 42 channel mix stage. It was really cool to hear how well the mix played back as intended in a much larger environment, and with arrayed surround channels no less.

DTS:X for the home will always be locked to 16 audio streams... so they can do 7.1 plus 9 dynamic objects, or 7.1.4+ 5 objects or ????

The theatrical system scales just as well as Atmos... it has the added benefit of being able to render to 5.1 or 7.1 in real time, which for Atmos rehires a separate 5.1 or 7.1 print master. The only down side to the DTS:X approach so that you have no control over the downmix, whereas you do when making a 5.1 or 7.1 from the original Atmos mix stems.

The DTS codec is a bit more limited because they don’t have a similar technology to Dolby’s spatial coding that lets you encode a larger number of objects into a smaller payload. Dolby can use all of the formats 118 objects plus the 9.1 channel bed from a theatrical print master. To do the same DTS:X must rely on channel rendered outputs.

DTS:X Pro adds no more objects to the codec. And the “regular” version is still locked to 11 output channels as a limitation of the codec AIUI... if that’s changed recently I’m unaware.

Pro is a strictly post processing solution to go past 7.1.4.
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post #8036 of 11112 Old 07-18-2019, 08:36 PM
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Is it fair to assume that you don't anticipate changes for the better beyond 7.1.4? A few sparse titles here and there with the majority of the releases staying within the 7.1.4 realm.
If you want a great example of an active Atmos mix, try Godzilla. All three pairs of heights are busy and audible from the get-go, and my Lc/Rc are used quite often. More than the wides or front side surround (1) for that matter. But everything in my layout is getting used...

Attachments are various random times in Scene 12. Although the bass sorely needs Bass EQ!
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post #8037 of 11112 Old 07-18-2019, 08:51 PM
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Red face

And this is taken from a scene in the first minute and a half of Hunter-Killer, also in Atmos....7.1.4 is hardly a limitation here. Nice helicopter flyby about six minutes in too.

I’d say get as many Atmos speakers as you can swing with your Altitude setup and practical layout. The more you add, the more realistic the resolution. At the end of the day, it’s all about sound quality.

And note my room is 20x15x9, with one row of seats. Enjoy...
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post #8038 of 11112 Old 07-19-2019, 02:35 AM
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Pro is a strictly post processing solution to go past 7.1.4.

So are you saying that DTS:X Pro is really just Nureal:X on Steroids ?

i.e upmixing 7.1.4 to more channels.

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post #8039 of 11112 Old 07-19-2019, 03:15 AM
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So are you saying that DTS:X Pro is really just Nureal:X on Steroids ?

i.e upmixing 7.1.4 to more channels.
I believe it's mainly the "center extraction" part of Neural:X that DTS:X uses to create additional speaker feeds on top of 7.1.4. For example, putting a speaker right in-between every adjacent pair of speakers, gets you from 7 ear level speakers to the maximum of 14 speakers. Given that center extraction works close to perfection nowadays, you are not likely to hear the difference between a true discrete channel and an extracted one. Some would disagree, but IMO if it comes to creating increased spatial resolution, this method is not necessarily inferior to using object decoding....

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post #8040 of 11112 Old 07-19-2019, 04:16 AM
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I believe it's mainly the "center extraction" part of Neural:X that DTS:X uses to create additional speaker feeds on top of 7.1.4. For example, putting a speaker right in-between every adjacent pair of speakers, gets you from 7 ear level speakers to the maximum of 14 speakers. Given that center extraction works close to perfection nowadays, you are not likely to hear the difference between a true discrete channel and an extracted one. Some would disagree, but IMO if it comes to creating increased spatial resolution, this method is not necessarily inferior to using object decoding....
If my information is correct; DTS:X contains objects - these will be "rendered" to all speakers like Atmos. It will be interesting to see if they have the possibility to screw up the blu-ray releases with DTS:X the same way as some have done for Atmos. Currently the playback of objects has been limited to 11 + sub due to license restrictions - that restriction will be gone with DTS:X Pro.

Edit:
If DTS:X Pro is not capable of doing this - the DTS:X format is dead.

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