Trinnov Altitude - Page 289 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 3649Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #8641 of 9429 Old 09-04-2019, 02:53 AM
Member
 
mandragora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Here's the problem... even if DTS: X Pro is a better, improved codec and a little bit more like Atmos, there are only 20 titles, from one foreign based studio (which has now switched to Atmos), that actually have 5 positionable objects included that we know of. ID4's 4k disc track only has one additional non static object and then that's all she wrote.

The rest of the home DTS: X titles have to use upmixing to have sound come out of any speaker beyond the 7.1.4 fixed track limitation.

Might as well have called this Neural: X Pro.
I agree here ... I'm still not that convinced that going beyond 9.x.6 is that beneficial ... are we not hitting a massive diminishing investment return thing here ?
I do own a 32ch Altitude but I'm not that sure what would be the real value in going beyond 9.x.6 .

For those who have greater than 9.x.6 speakers do you hear a big change ? subtle ? was it worth to spend the extra money, more cables, more calibration sessions, more reflections to tame ... ?

thanks for the clarifications :-)

Ben
mandragora is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #8642 of 9429 Old 09-04-2019, 03:38 AM
Advanced Member
 
Berland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 734
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 475 Post(s)
Liked: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venger99 View Post
Sorry to ask about a basic question. I downloaded mocha VNC lite to try and control the trinnov from my iPad. I entered the MAC address for the trinnov and also tried putting in the IP address. When I clicked connect it kept saying password incorrect. Where do I find the password for the trinnov?
Is there a guide somewhere as to how to set this up?
Thanks.
Password is 6 digits; for if your S/N is 512; enter password 000512

HT: Trinnov A32 (AL32-1632)/AMP8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 802D3, 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
HP: 2*MOON 430HA D, 2*MiND2 - 2*Yggdrasil - 2*Hydra Z/ZPM - ISOTEK EVO3 Sigmas, Aquarius - NORDOST Heimdall 2 - AUDEZE LCD-4 rev2, 2*LCD-XC - SHURE SE846 - Bose NC 700
Berland is online now  
post #8643 of 9429 Old 09-04-2019, 03:41 AM
Advanced Member
 
Berland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 734
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 475 Post(s)
Liked: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Here's the problem... even if DTS: X Pro is a better, improved codec and a little bit more like Atmos, there are only 20 titles, from one foreign based studio (which has now switched to Atmos), that actually have 5 positionable objects included that we know of. ID4's 4k disc track only has one additional non static object and then that's all she wrote.

The rest of the home DTS: X titles have to use upmixing to have sound come out of any speaker beyond the 7.1.4 fixed track limitation.

Might as well have called this Neural: X Pro.
This is why they have thought of upmix part as well. Of course; we should hope that some of the studios have management with A16/A32 - then we will get more DTS:X titles with objects. We also have the Atmos titles hard coded to 2 or 4 ceiling channels.

Netflix seems to have some people in charge sitting with an A32. They use all the channels on their Atmos titles.

Edit:
of course, I suspect the entire DTS:X is in reality dead (with or without Pro); everyone uses Atmos it seems. Only benefit is that we now don't have the 11+1 channels restriction - meaning we can use Neural:X upmix for all channels.

We can only hope dolby will follow up with an improvement - to support the missing speakers. Then DTS:X is really dead. We could of course see an increase in DTS:X titles which uses objects. If DTS makes great tools for the mixers (which is free); this might happen. I would hope we have both formats available and active for a long time - else Dolby will screw us over completely very soon

HT: Trinnov A32 (AL32-1632)/AMP8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 802D3, 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
HP: 2*MOON 430HA D, 2*MiND2 - 2*Yggdrasil - 2*Hydra Z/ZPM - ISOTEK EVO3 Sigmas, Aquarius - NORDOST Heimdall 2 - AUDEZE LCD-4 rev2, 2*LCD-XC - SHURE SE846 - Bose NC 700

Last edited by Berland; 09-04-2019 at 03:46 AM.
Berland is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #8644 of 9429 Old 09-04-2019, 03:58 AM
Senior Member
 
Venger99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 206
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 120 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Many thanks. I’ll try it tonight.
Watched the tank battle from fury last night and it almost blew my room apart! The bass is so visceral, even with one sub.
Loving the gunshots in John wick 😀
Venger99 is offline  
post #8645 of 9429 Old 09-04-2019, 05:13 AM
Advanced Member
 
Berland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 734
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 475 Post(s)
Liked: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venger99 View Post
Many thanks. I’ll try it tonight.
Watched the tank battle from fury last night and it almost blew my room apart! The bass is so visceral, even with one sub.
Loving the gunshots in John wick 😀
The Altitude is the best device ever. Love it! Looking at all the others changing gear to get a new sound, poor bastards

HT: Trinnov A32 (AL32-1632)/AMP8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 802D3, 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
HP: 2*MOON 430HA D, 2*MiND2 - 2*Yggdrasil - 2*Hydra Z/ZPM - ISOTEK EVO3 Sigmas, Aquarius - NORDOST Heimdall 2 - AUDEZE LCD-4 rev2, 2*LCD-XC - SHURE SE846 - Bose NC 700
Berland is online now  
post #8646 of 9429 Old 09-04-2019, 07:51 AM
RUR
Innocent Bystander
 
RUR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Beershorn
Posts: 3,118
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 664 Post(s)
Liked: 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venger99 View Post
When I clicked connect it kept saying password incorrect. Where do I find the password for the trinnov?
The password is your unit's serial number, including any preceding zeros e.g. 0054.
RUR is offline  
post #8647 of 9429 Old 09-04-2019, 08:06 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
sdrucker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,361
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1688 Post(s)
Liked: 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by mandragora View Post
I agree here ... I'm still not that convinced that going beyond 9.x.6 is that beneficial ... are we not hitting a massive diminishing investment return thing here ?
I do own a 32ch Altitude but I'm not that sure what would be the real value in going beyond 9.x.6 .

For those who have greater than 9.x.6 speakers do you hear a big change ? subtle ? was it worth to spend the extra money, more cables, more calibration sessions, more reflections to tame ... ?

thanks for the clarifications :-)

Ben
Speaking only for myself (who else would I speak for?), going beyond 9.1.6 is definitely incremental. However, in my room it offers two advantages:
1) With a single row of seats, I can have front side surrounds and bed side surrounds positioned so that I can mitigate focus point effects for listeners by having these speakers at 75 degrees and 105 degrees (approximately). However I use 3D remapping with this approach. A side effect is that the front side surrounds (SS1) are always playing, since along with their own native object passthrough content for Atmos, they're also playing the bed sides with remapping engaged
2) With left and right centers (Lc/Rc) inside the screen at about 17 degrees, when these speakers are in use, you get more precision of effects inside the screen on some content (Oblivion, War for the Planet of the Apes, Hunter Killer come to mind), and it's audible compared to the broader soundstage emitting from my mains

Having said this, I only did the Lc/Rc because I had the extra channels available, and I picked up a pair of bookshelves that were timbre matched to my mains (same tweeter) used from my PSB dealer at a discount.

If I had a high performance multi-seat, multi-row theatre rather than a personalized HT room (20x14x9) for three to five in a hi-rise, I'd have went differently on my speaker choice and probably wound up with 9.1.6 or at most 11.1.6. And if my primary influences were AVSers with Altitudes in 2019, probably 9.1.8 if anything assuming I still had the Altitude 32/24.

Don't get me wrong, the extra speakers CAN be rewarding, and I'm still glad I did them rather than not. But if you're looking at this from a strict performance/value POV and have a pre-engineered room with near-perfect speaker placement....you might feel differently unless you have the channels to burn and/or don't mind experimenting.
Dan Hitchman and mandragora like this.

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
Video: JVC RS600, Seymour 100" UF Screen, Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 (coming soon)
Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides/Side Surround 1, T2 Side Surrounds, Imagine XB rears, Image B6 screens, PSB CS1000 ceilings (6), HSU ULS-15 Mk 2 subs (4) - 13.4.6
HAA HT1 and HT2 Certification

Last edited by sdrucker; 09-04-2019 at 09:00 AM.
sdrucker is online now  
post #8648 of 9429 Old 09-04-2019, 08:15 AM
Advanced Member
 
Berland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 734
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 475 Post(s)
Liked: 276
Common misunderstanding is that small rooms requires less ceiling speakers; this is actually wrong - I'm sitting in a 12x12ft area with 9 ceiling speakers. I could easily add a few more.

HT: Trinnov A32 (AL32-1632)/AMP8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 802D3, 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
HP: 2*MOON 430HA D, 2*MiND2 - 2*Yggdrasil - 2*Hydra Z/ZPM - ISOTEK EVO3 Sigmas, Aquarius - NORDOST Heimdall 2 - AUDEZE LCD-4 rev2, 2*LCD-XC - SHURE SE846 - Bose NC 700
Berland is online now  
post #8649 of 9429 Old 09-04-2019, 10:16 AM
Senior Member
 
dancjodanc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 291 Post(s)
Liked: 20
I was told to back up all my setting before I do the update. I have a flash drive in the back..and can't find the 'magic' panel, or tab where I can back up everything? Thanks
dancjodanc is online now  
post #8650 of 9429 Old 09-04-2019, 10:41 AM
Rise & Grind
 
dinamigym's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: SW Burb of Chicago
Posts: 527
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 330 Post(s)
Liked: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post
I was told to back up all my setting before I do the update. I have a flash drive in the back..and can't find the 'magic' panel, or tab where I can back up everything? Thanks
After inserting the flash drive my A16 automatically displayed the back-up options page on my VNC screen.

Trinnov Altitude 16, Magico A3, Magico ACC, Magico A1s, Dual Rythmik FV25HP
Amps- ATI AT523NC, AT524NC, AT528NC
Kaleidescape Terra Server/Strato, Oppo UDP-203, Apple TV4k, XFinity X1
Sony VPL-VW5000, 136" 2.35:1 Stewart Studiotek 100 screen, Lumagen Pro 4242
dinamigym is online now  
post #8651 of 9429 Old 09-04-2019, 10:43 AM
Advanced Member
 
Berland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 734
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 475 Post(s)
Liked: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post
I was told to back up all my setting before I do the update. I have a flash drive in the back..and can't find the 'magic' panel, or tab where I can back up everything? Thanks
Several parameters can be saved, archived and restored using a USB key:
1. Insert a USB key in one of the USB Port located on the rear panel of the Altitude32.
2. As the USB Pop-up menu displays, select the operation you want to execute:
• Save or Load presets to/from the USB Key
• Save or Load profiles (sources configurations) to/from the USB Key
• Save or Load microphone compensation files to/from the USB Key
• Generate and save a PDF Report for each of your presets on the USB Key. This report includes data from the
Optimizer including speaker positions, optimizer settings amplitude, phase and impulse response of every
speaker, before and after correction.
• Save a Bug report to the USB Key: when an expected error occurred, the system is halted to prevent damage to
your system and a bug report is generated. After the restart of the Altitude32, you can save that bug report on the
USB Key and send it to Trinnov support at [email protected] for analysis.
• Save Screenshots to the USB Key: you can take screenshots of the Altitude32’s Graphical User Interface by pressing
the “print screen” key of a keyboard connected to the Altitude32.

IMPORTANT NOTE: to ensure the data integrity of your USB Key, please press the Close button and wait until the USB
Pop-up menu has disappeared to remove it.

NOTE: be careful when reloading presets from a USB Key: preset are identified by their memory slot. Therefore, a preset
initially saved as preset number 5 would overwrite the preset number 5 stored on the Altitude32 without warning.

Edit:
Remember to plug in the USB flash _after_ the A16/32 is turned on and started.

HT: Trinnov A32 (AL32-1632)/AMP8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 802D3, 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
HP: 2*MOON 430HA D, 2*MiND2 - 2*Yggdrasil - 2*Hydra Z/ZPM - ISOTEK EVO3 Sigmas, Aquarius - NORDOST Heimdall 2 - AUDEZE LCD-4 rev2, 2*LCD-XC - SHURE SE846 - Bose NC 700

Last edited by Berland; 09-04-2019 at 10:49 AM.
Berland is online now  
post #8652 of 9429 Old 09-04-2019, 11:01 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ss9001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: metro Atlanta
Posts: 9,354
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 679 Post(s)
Liked: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post
I was told to back up all my setting before I do the update. I have a flash drive in the back..and can't find the 'magic' panel, or tab where I can back up everything? Thanks

Berland already gave you the answer but I'll reinforce it since I initially tried to leave it plugged in the back for convenience & found it doesn't work that way. You boot it up first, allow the main screen to appear and then insert the drive. The OS will then recognize the drive and the popup should appear with all the save/reload options. When done, you "unmount" the flash drive; there's a software button to remove the drive. It shouldn't matter which USB port but if it's balky, unplug and try another port. But the key is not to have it inserted when the Altitude is off.

Steve

Last edited by ss9001; 09-04-2019 at 11:06 AM.
ss9001 is online now  
post #8653 of 9429 Old 09-04-2019, 07:40 PM
Advanced Member
 
kingwiggi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: UK -> FL, USA
Posts: 873
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 571 Post(s)
Liked: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaharT View Post
Hi, awesome forum. I've spent many hours reading through it.
Got me so impressed, I'm as of today a proud new owner of an Altitude 32 16-24. Very excited about this!

It's to be connected to a 7.2.14 speaker setup.

One thing that's not clear to me despite all my reading, is how do the different speakers get mapped in the various formats.

For example, do my right-front-height, left-front-heigh, right-top-middle, left-top-middle (etc) - get mapped only into Atmos and Dolby, and are left as None for Auro3d, Dts:x and DTS? Seems a waste to have all these speakers and amps, and that at any point in time only a small subset is being used based on the specific surround format used.

Or is that going to be the case, until DTS:X Pro is available, at which time I'll use this format to drive all speakers?

Asking after looking on the layout screen through vnc, after all my speakers are positioned.

I'm sure it's a complete newbie question and my trusted and amazing installer will have the answers, but trying to figure it myself as well.

First of all congratulations on your purchase, I think most people were excited about the firmware update yesterday and overlooked your post.

The mappings for the various audio formats can be viewed on the speaker config page. Trinnov have chosen the default mappings based on the various speaker layout. You can change any of the default mappings quite easily from this screen and create arrays if needed, to use any of your un-mapped speakers

Take a look at the screenshot, in particular the vertical columns under the names for the audio formats.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2019-09-04 at 9.30.38 PM.png
Views:	46
Size:	348.0 KB
ID:	2611198  

Trinnov Altitude 32, LCR JBL M2, JBL LSR 708i, 705i, Q-SYS Core 110f, Amps- QSC CXD4.2Q, 4.3Q, 4.5Q
Kaleidescape Strato, Zapitti 4K HDR Duo, Xbox One X, 8TB Tivo Roamio Pro,
JVC RS600 + ISCO IIIL, 158" 2.40:1 AT screen, Calman 5 Enthusiast, i1 Pro 2, i1 Display Pro, Spyder 5, 3D LUT Box
Oppo UDP-203, BDP-105, Onkyo DAC-1000s, Onkyo DP-X1 DAP, QNAP TVS-871

Last edited by kingwiggi; 09-04-2019 at 07:46 PM.
kingwiggi is online now  
post #8654 of 9429 Old 09-04-2019, 08:43 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DaveN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: TN
Posts: 2,116
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 92
Software backup and update were easy. Having the target curves to 10Hz is a welcome improvement. When I look at optimizer curves the graph still only goes to 20Hz. Any way to change the display?
DaveN is offline  
post #8655 of 9429 Old 09-04-2019, 11:34 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Is it normal for status to remain "Update queued" for more than 24 hours?
infinity312 is offline  
post #8656 of 9429 Old 09-04-2019, 11:42 PM
Member
 
mandragora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Speaking only for myself (who else would I speak for?), going beyond 9.1.6 is definitely incremental. However, in my room it offers two advantages:
1) With a single row of seats, I can have front side surrounds and bed side surrounds positioned so that I can mitigate focus point effects for listeners by having these speakers at 75 degrees and 105 degrees (approximately). However I use 3D remapping with this approach. A side effect is that the front side surrounds (SS1) are always playing, since along with their own native object passthrough content for Atmos, they're also playing the bed sides with remapping engaged
2) With left and right centers (Lc/Rc) inside the screen at about 17 degrees, when these speakers are in use, you get more precision of effects inside the screen on some content (Oblivion, War for the Planet of the Apes, Hunter Killer come to mind), and it's audible compared to the broader soundstage emitting from my mains

Having said this, I only did the Lc/Rc because I had the extra channels available, and I picked up a pair of bookshelves that were timbre matched to my mains (same tweeter) used from my PSB dealer at a discount.

If I had a high performance multi-seat, multi-row theatre rather than a personalized HT room (20x14x9) for three to five in a hi-rise, I'd have went differently on my speaker choice and probably wound up with 9.1.6 or at most 11.1.6. And if my primary influences were AVSers with Altitudes in 2019, probably 9.1.8 if anything assuming I still had the Altitude 32/24.

Don't get me wrong, the extra speakers CAN be rewarding, and I'm still glad I did them rather than not. But if you're looking at this from a strict performance/value POV and have a pre-engineered room with near-perfect speaker placement....you might feel differently unless you have the channels to burn and/or don't mind experimenting.
Thank you very much for your reply :-)

so would you say that in a room with less the ideal speaker placement the more speaker the better as the Altitude would be in a better position to use 3D Remapping to 'properly position' the speakers ?
mandragora is offline  
post #8657 of 9429 Old 09-04-2019, 11:44 PM
Member
 
mandragora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveN View Post
Software backup and update were easy. Having the target curves to 10Hz is a welcome improvement. When I look at optimizer curves the graph still only goes to 20Hz. Any way to change the display?
as far as I know you can't use an existing preset to benefit from the new 10hz extension, you need to start all over again.

but please more expert people correct me if I'm wrong
mandragora is offline  
post #8658 of 9429 Old 09-04-2019, 11:56 PM
Advanced Member
 
Berland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 734
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 475 Post(s)
Liked: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveN View Post
Software backup and update were easy. Having the target curves to 10Hz is a welcome improvement. When I look at optimizer curves the graph still only goes to 20Hz. Any way to change the display?
This is because you display 20-20.000Hz; try selecting 10-300Hz instead (x-setting at the lower right part of screen).
termatogazi likes this.

HT: Trinnov A32 (AL32-1632)/AMP8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 802D3, 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
HP: 2*MOON 430HA D, 2*MiND2 - 2*Yggdrasil - 2*Hydra Z/ZPM - ISOTEK EVO3 Sigmas, Aquarius - NORDOST Heimdall 2 - AUDEZE LCD-4 rev2, 2*LCD-XC - SHURE SE846 - Bose NC 700
Berland is online now  
post #8659 of 9429 Old 09-05-2019, 04:33 AM
Member
 
ShaharT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London, UK
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingwiggi View Post
First of all congratulations on your purchase, I think most people were excited about the firmware update yesterday and overlooked your post.

The mappings for the various audio formats can be viewed on the speaker config page. Trinnov have chosen the default mappings based on the various speaker layout. You can change any of the default mappings quite easily from this screen and create arrays if needed, to use any of your un-mapped speakers

Take a look at the screenshot, in particular the vertical columns under the names for the audio formats.
Thanks a lot! Indeed the new firmware is exciting Just opened the required port to allow Trinov support to upgrade mine.

Back to my question for another newbie understanding (and really appreciate the camaraderie in this thread) - I see you have for various formats, multiple Speakers left as 'none'. For example LRH for Auro, or LTM for DTS.

With my 7.2.14 installation, I get a great many of the speakers as 'none' for the various formats. I'm sure it's very immature of me, but I was hoping to get as many of them potentially engaged in the different formats

Is there a boilerplate for 7.2.14 to make sure I max out the speakers assigned for each format? I can explain what my physical installation looks like if that would help.

I was also considering whether sounds could (or should) be duplicated to speakers unassigned, and is there any sonic value to this.

Again, complete newbie, and ahead of calibration and tweaks etc. Just trying to get my head wrapped around this incredible device.
ShaharT is offline  
post #8660 of 9429 Old 09-05-2019, 04:53 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
audioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Not far from Atlanta - but far enough!
Posts: 9,799
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5125 Post(s)
Liked: 3987
Quote:
Originally Posted by mandragora View Post
as far as I know you can't use an existing preset to benefit from the new 10hz extension, you need to start all over again.

but please more expert people correct me if I'm wrong
You do need to start with the "Built In Preset" to take advantage of it.

It would be nice (at least for me) if there were a way to copy the actual room measurements from one preset to the new one (there may be but I could not find it). The 10Hz ability has little value to me. But the ability to save and load a target curves is of major importance. The only way for me to get that ability, however, is to re-measure, which is a pain in the rear particularly since I already have perfectly good measurements (lots of them, in fact).

As long as I have a wish list, it would be really nice to be able to save individual speaker measurements and use them in other presets. In my case, 99.999% of the reason I re-measure is created by diddling with my subs, and their placement. I got very spoiled because the Datasat RS20i using Dirac had that ability and I can't even begin to say how much I made use of it. Not only in my own room but in other rooms I calibrated.

I don't mind (re) creating the target curves I use if I just didn't have to run all of the measurements again. But oh, well!!

EDIT: Actually, I have sort of done this previously. I always PEQ my LFE channel to very flat prior to Optimizer and save the response in OmniMic. If (when?) I move my subs, I create a new Preset with my old LFE measurements and I replace the old PEQs with ones for the new sub position so that the new PEQd response is virtually identical to the previous PEQd response. And then I re-run Optimizer in the new Preset, and it seems to work. Eventually I do re-measure everything but can detect no difference between my new fully measured system and my sub only "cheating" approach.

Last edited by audioguy; 09-05-2019 at 05:40 AM.
audioguy is online now  
post #8661 of 9429 Old 09-05-2019, 05:56 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Wookii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,574
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3024 Post(s)
Liked: 2233
I have a quick question.

I have my wides (at +/-60 degree), currently set up as Atmos wides. As I understand it, if I want DSU to utilise them, I could set them as Ls1/Rs1 as forward side surrounds - it was my previous understanding that DSU would use these positions where it doesn't use the Lw/Rw positions?

I thought I could achieve that simply by designating the Lw/Rw speakers as Ls1/Rs1 in the routing table under the Dolby column within the speaker set-up page. Having tried that, it doesn't seem to work, I still get no output from those channels under DSU.

Does this mean I need to create a whole new preset with the Lw/Rw speakers actually designated as Ls1/Rs1 from the outset - therefore requiring a whole separate calibration?

Can someone who has this working, please confirm?
Wookii is offline  
post #8662 of 9429 Old 09-05-2019, 06:50 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ss9001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: metro Atlanta
Posts: 9,354
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 679 Post(s)
Liked: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
You do need to start with the "Built In Preset" to take advantage of it.

It would be nice (at least for me) if there were a way to copy the actual room measurements from one preset to the new one (there may be but I could not find it). The 10Hz ability has little value to me. But the ability to save and load a target curves is of major importance. The only way for me to get that ability, however, is to re-measure, which is a pain in the rear particularly since I already have perfectly good measurements (lots of them, in fact).

As long as I have a wish list, it would be really nice to be able to save individual speaker measurements and use them in other presets. In my case, 99.999% of the reason I re-measure is created by diddling with my subs, and their placement. I got very spoiled because the Datasat RS20i using Dirac had that ability and I can't even begin to say how much I made use of it. Not only in my own room but in other rooms I calibrated.

I don't mind (re) creating the target curves I use if I just didn't have to run all of the measurements again. But oh, well!!
I'm attending today's webinar on the new software and hopefully, I get the chance to ask about this. I do know that I was able to create target curve-save files on my existing presets with the "beta" RC9. It was a hassle with some glitches but after some time with the process, I did have success in doing & saving them and clicking Apply Changes; remeasuring not needed.

Jon H wasn't sure if the new software had a script for migrating existing preset curve data to the new architecture so you wouldn't have to do that up & down adjustment first. In the end, if the user still has to do that up/down data point adjustment, it might be best to start over with the new built-in preset. 'Cause in the RC, that was quirky.

But I totally agree that it would be fantastic if the measurement data could be saved as files, to be exported & imported at will. Someone like Adam might not like this idea but it would be a god-send to some advanced DIY'rs. Maybe not possible or practical from a programming standpoint but we can dream...

Steve

Last edited by ss9001; 09-05-2019 at 08:27 AM.
ss9001 is online now  
post #8663 of 9429 Old 09-05-2019, 10:43 AM
Advanced Member
 
Berland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 734
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 475 Post(s)
Liked: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
I have a quick question.

I have my wides (at +/-60 degree), currently set up as Atmos wides. As I understand it, if I want DSU to utilise them, I could set them as Ls1/Rs1 as forward side surrounds - it was my previous understanding that DSU would use these positions where it doesn't use the Lw/Rw positions?

I thought I could achieve that simply by designating the Lw/Rw speakers as Ls1/Rs1 in the routing table under the Dolby column within the speaker set-up page. Having tried that, it doesn't seem to work, I still get no output from those channels under DSU.

Does this mean I need to create a whole new preset with the Lw/Rw speakers actually designated as Ls1/Rs1 from the outset - therefore requiring a whole separate calibration?

Can someone who has this working, please confirm?
This works fine, but you need to keep in mind that upmix selection have an effect on which layout to use. For example dolby surround upmix will make DSU use the atmos layout. While upmix selection "upmix on native" will actually use the dolby layout for DSU.

Also when checking this in processor/meters tab; there is a refresh issue here; so switch to for example master then back to meters to make sure you are looking at reality.

Edit:
You can also set default PCM upmixer under decoder setup/general, but the listening format in sources/decoders actually define which layout to use for DSU (its complicated I know).

From the manual; this will make it all more clear:


Edit:
LW/RW and Ls1/Rs1 can be set to same position; but if they are not you can enable 3D-remapping to actually position the Ls1/Rs1 at correct position; then the Altitude will use Lw together with Ls and Rw together with Rs to get correct position of the Ls1/Rs1 channels.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Skjermbilde 2019-09-05 kl. 18.52.55.png
Views:	102
Size:	419.5 KB
ID:	2611374  
Wookii likes this.

HT: Trinnov A32 (AL32-1632)/AMP8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 802D3, 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
HP: 2*MOON 430HA D, 2*MiND2 - 2*Yggdrasil - 2*Hydra Z/ZPM - ISOTEK EVO3 Sigmas, Aquarius - NORDOST Heimdall 2 - AUDEZE LCD-4 rev2, 2*LCD-XC - SHURE SE846 - Bose NC 700

Last edited by Berland; 09-05-2019 at 11:01 AM.
Berland is online now  
post #8664 of 9429 Old 09-05-2019, 11:05 AM
Advanced Member
 
Berland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 734
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 475 Post(s)
Liked: 276
I have actually lately disabled the remapping for the front speakers; since they are close to perfect positioned - the sound quality is actually slightly better without remapping on these channels. This flexibility is great; I can disable remapping on the perfectly positioned front speakers but still use remapping for the surrounds (which have different optimal position based on format).

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Skjermbilde 2019-09-05 kl. 19.03.23.png
Views:	105
Size:	463.2 KB
ID:	2611378  
mikela and termatogazi like this.

HT: Trinnov A32 (AL32-1632)/AMP8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 802D3, 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
HP: 2*MOON 430HA D, 2*MiND2 - 2*Yggdrasil - 2*Hydra Z/ZPM - ISOTEK EVO3 Sigmas, Aquarius - NORDOST Heimdall 2 - AUDEZE LCD-4 rev2, 2*LCD-XC - SHURE SE846 - Bose NC 700
Berland is online now  
post #8665 of 9429 Old 09-05-2019, 12:02 PM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
sdrucker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,361
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1688 Post(s)
Liked: 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by mandragora View Post
Thank you very much for your reply :-)

so would you say that in a room with less the ideal speaker placement the more speaker the better as the Altitude would be in a better position to use 3D Remapping to 'properly position' the speakers ?
Not exactly. With less than ideal placement, you can often get good results from a standard speaker layout IF the speakers aren't too far from ideal. Example: mains at 25 degrees where you want a 30 degrees ideal placement. In my case, with the two pairs of side surrounds, the bed side surround is about 15 degrees from ideal, but still within spec (90 to 105 degrees). So Remapping is helpful so that I can avoid a 90 degrees speaker firing straight at a single row of seats. A riser or in-wall speakers aren't practical for me in the condo, so this was a solution. I could do this without 3D Remapping, but I enjoy the sound more for Atmos and 3D audio. I go a different route for upmixing, namely a speaker array that Curt Hoyt and I worked up. But regardless, it's not the Swiss Army Knife for all cases. If you've got side surrounds at 60 degrees, rears at 90 degrees azimuth in a 7.1 layout or height speakers a foot above the mains , nothing's going to fix that.

Using 3D Remapping is one way to solve this problem, but Trinnov's universal/best practice placements and high performance HT design as you'll see in the CEDIA Designer or the way Adam would approach the problem in a multi-seat, multi-row context would rely on placement (risers, sightly raised speakers for some rows) rather than electronics. IMO Remapping was designed in the days where the focus was on pro audio monitoring and a stereo, 5.1 or 7.1 context. It's less clear how appropriate it still is in the high performance, high channel count HT world of today, at least as a best practice except for specific cases like mine.

Where an extra speaker comes in handy is for specific purposes, such as having a center speaker below an OLED TV or a non-AT screen (NOT a recommended approach if you can help it) and another speaker, call it the "center height", physically located above the TV/screen. You could create a two-way active speaker with that "center height" creating a phantom image from the two speakers as if there were a single speaker for content where there was no legal center height (e.g. Atmos), or use 3D Remapping. If I were interested in an actual center height for Auro or DTS:X Pro (soon to be on an Altitude near you later this year), I'd use 3D remapping if those were my choices. Or maybe a case where I was forced to have rears at different elevation due to a room constraint; a secondary speaker might help there with remapping even if it were used for no other purposes (you'd have to give it some available nominal designation for the calibration, though). There's others, but these are ones I can think there off the top of my head.

However, you can't just add more speakers into the room just to use 3D Remapping with better resolution. They still require placement that's beneficial for the purpose.
mandragora likes this.

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
Video: JVC RS600, Seymour 100" UF Screen, Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 (coming soon)
Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides/Side Surround 1, T2 Side Surrounds, Imagine XB rears, Image B6 screens, PSB CS1000 ceilings (6), HSU ULS-15 Mk 2 subs (4) - 13.4.6
HAA HT1 and HT2 Certification

Last edited by sdrucker; 09-05-2019 at 02:22 PM.
sdrucker is online now  
post #8666 of 9429 Old 09-05-2019, 12:28 PM
Advanced Member
 
Berland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 734
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 475 Post(s)
Liked: 276
3D-remapping is fantastic for ceiling speakers; the optimal position is not the same between Atmos, DTS:X and Auro-3D. Hence this is were 3D-remapping really shines. Besides; I have still never seen perfect position of all ceiling speakers regardless of format (this is complicated to mount perfect). Floor standing speakers often needs multiple adjustments to hit the spot perfectly; it is hard to do this process with ceiling speakers (drilling a new hole in the ceiling for every attempt can be messy).

HT: Trinnov A32 (AL32-1632)/AMP8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 802D3, 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
HP: 2*MOON 430HA D, 2*MiND2 - 2*Yggdrasil - 2*Hydra Z/ZPM - ISOTEK EVO3 Sigmas, Aquarius - NORDOST Heimdall 2 - AUDEZE LCD-4 rev2, 2*LCD-XC - SHURE SE846 - Bose NC 700

Last edited by Berland; 09-05-2019 at 01:20 PM.
Berland is online now  
post #8667 of 9429 Old 09-05-2019, 03:37 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
maikeldepotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,994
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1594 Post(s)
Liked: 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
With less than ideal placement, you can often get good results from a standard speaker layout IF the speakers aren't too far from ideal.
My understanding as well. If you can position your speakers within the format's recommended ranges, remapping does not necessarily add value if your aim is to come as close as possible to the mixer's intent.

Quote:
However, you can't just add more speakers into the room just to use 3D Remapping with better resolution. They still require placement that's beneficial for the purpose.
Still, if you can not position your speakers within recommended ranges, more speakers will per definition improve the accuracy of 3D remapping.
mandragora likes this.

A good idea and understanding lies at the base of every successful project.

Last edited by maikeldepotter; 09-05-2019 at 04:04 PM.
maikeldepotter is online now  
post #8668 of 9429 Old 09-05-2019, 04:03 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
maikeldepotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,994
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1594 Post(s)
Liked: 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berland View Post
I have still never seen perfect position of all ceiling speakers regardless of format (this is complicated to mount perfect).
How would you define perfect? Staying within recommended positional ranges for all formats (Atmos, DTS:X and Auro3D) is not necessarily impossible, see: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post55222282

Quote:
Floor standing speakers often needs multiple adjustments to hit the spot perfectly; it is hard to do this process with ceiling speakers (drilling a new hole in the ceiling for every attempt can be messy).
Ideally you would want to have the ability to on basis of listening tests adjust the position (and tilt and toeing) of ceiling and wall mounted speakers to find the optimal orientation within the recommended positional ranges, and be able to make such changes within a minute or so between listening tests. Not an easy job to figure out how to engineer something like that for multiple speakers each weighing up to about 15 kg. I have been working on such flexible mounting system for my lab (annex concept room/ experience center) for quite some time, and am at the verge of the manufacturing and constructing phase.

A good idea and understanding lies at the base of every successful project.

Last edited by maikeldepotter; 09-16-2019 at 06:14 AM.
maikeldepotter is online now  
post #8669 of 9429 Old 09-05-2019, 04:08 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
maikeldepotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,994
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1594 Post(s)
Liked: 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
I have a quick question.

I have my wides (at +/-60 degree), currently set up as Atmos wides. As I understand it, if I want DSU to utilise them, I could set them as Ls1/Rs1 as forward side surrounds - it was my previous understanding that DSU would use these positions where it doesn't use the Lw/Rw positions?

I thought I could achieve that simply by designating the Lw/Rw speakers as Ls1/Rs1 in the routing table under the Dolby column within the speaker set-up page. Having tried that, it doesn't seem to work, I still get no output from those channels under DSU.
It should work like that.

(on holiday, so no possibility to check)

A good idea and understanding lies at the base of every successful project.
maikeldepotter is online now  
post #8670 of 9429 Old 09-05-2019, 04:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Wookii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,574
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3024 Post(s)
Liked: 2233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berland View Post
This works fine, but you need to keep in mind that upmix selection have an effect on which layout to use. For example dolby surround upmix will make DSU use the atmos layout. While upmix selection "upmix on native" will actually use the dolby layout for DSU.

Also when checking this in processor/meters tab; there is a refresh issue here; so switch to for example master then back to meters to make sure you are looking at reality.

Edit:
You can also set default PCM upmixer under decoder setup/general, but the listening format in sources/decoders actually define which layout to use for DSU (its complicated I know).

From the manual; this will make it all more clear:


Edit:
LW/RW and Ls1/Rs1 can be set to same position; but if they are not you can enable 3D-remapping to actually position the Ls1/Rs1 at correct position; then the Altitude will use Lw together with Ls and Rw together with Rs to get correct position of the Ls1/Rs1 channels.
Thanks, that’s the bit I was missing!
Wookii is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off