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post #9331 of 9409 Old 11-29-2019, 12:05 AM
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Clicking problem solved. At Antoine from Trinnov’s suggestion, I changed out the HDMI cables sequentially. The culprit was the XFinity cable. I changed it to a 4K HDR cable and the clicking resolved. As usual, an HDMI issue.
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post #9332 of 9409 Old 11-29-2019, 12:41 AM
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Clicking problem solved. At Antoine from Trinnov’s suggestion, I changed out the HDMI cables sequentially. The culprit was the XFinity cable. I changed it to a 4K HDR cable and the clicking resolved. As usual, an HDMI issue.
Congrats. And not a bit of a surprise!
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post #9333 of 9409 Old 11-29-2019, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by David Shapiro View Post
Clicking problem solved. At Antoine from Trinnov’s suggestion, I changed out the HDMI cables sequentially. The culprit was the XFinity cable. I changed it to a 4K HDR cable and the clicking resolved. As usual, an HDMI issue.
Comcast strikes again!
Glad Antoine was able to find the problem for you! A nice Thanksgiving gift.

Steve

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post #9334 of 9409 Old 11-29-2019, 07:12 AM
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Anybody ever use a "refresh button" code to re-establish the HDMI handshake. Antoine referenced it and I'm having trouble figuring out what he meant. I asked him via e-mail, but no answer yet.

Thanks,
David

DES
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post #9335 of 9409 Old 11-29-2019, 07:14 AM
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Comcast strikes again!
Glad Antoine was able to find the problem for you! A nice Thanksgiving gift.
Antoine is becoming a legend ! My unit has been replaced in record time and no more whiplash !!!!:O)

Kudos Trinnov !

~M~

P.S. Just realised now I have to start reading the manual again from scratch ;O)

Duh!

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post #9336 of 9409 Old 11-29-2019, 08:56 AM
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I apologize for those that are tired of reading about the clicking issue. It turns out that my Xfinity didn’t play nice with input 5. I out it back to input 1, and the clicking is finally gone.

David
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post #9337 of 9409 Old 11-29-2019, 09:14 AM
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I apologize for those that are tired of reading about the clicking issue. It turns out that my Xfinity didn’t play nice with input 5. I out it back to input 1, and the clicking is finally gone.

David

How dare it not like hdmi 2.0!

Your experience reinforces why I had always connected cable boxes with component video & toslink until I was forced to use hdmi when I upgraded from a Pioneer kuro to a Sony 4K oled. Cable/sat boxes used to be notoriously quirky with hdmi. I guess some of them still are. hdmi is the gift that keeps on giving.
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post #9338 of 9409 Old 11-30-2019, 02:53 AM
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Movies are played through the Vero 4K+
There has been so much encouraging talk about Vero 4K+ so as a slow adapter I will move now.
https://osmc.tv/blog/
Vero 4K+ BlackFriday offer valid for few days with free shipping. Amazon.de price is way higher.
Still some space left here so what the heck - just some more small boxes :-)

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for LG 77" 86" 98" , ... lcd/oled display calibration. Was a BF offer 12 hours ago, but still great product...
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post #9339 of 9409 Old 11-30-2019, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Tommy_HT View Post
There has been so much encouraging talk about Vero 4K+ so as a slow adapter I will move now.
https://osmc.tv/blog/
Vero 4K+ BlackFriday offer valid for few days with free shipping. Amazon.de price is way higher.
Still some space left here so what the heck - just some more small boxes :-)

OT:
for LG 77" 86" 98" , ... lcd/oled display calibration. Was a BF offer 12 hours ago, but still great product...
EU: i1 Display Pro or Pro+
US: CalMAN Home for LG
Vero 4K+ is magic. Still a few glitches regarding HDR and max brightness (1000) that will be fixed soon when new Linux kernel will be added. But I'm very happy with the device. It is small, it does everything great and you can contact the team behind the device to get instant assistance (or to give feedback) on their forum.

Edit:
One small note; the HDMI cable delivered with the Vero 4K+ is crap The OSMC team behind the Vero 4K+ does not agree, but most of the problems you see online is connected to this specific HDMI cable. They will send you a new one if you get trouble, but much easier just getting a good quality one from somewhere else (one that supports 18Gbps). Also stay away from the ones too short (I would say 2 meter is a perfect length to avoid all HDMI specific issues in general - Trinnov recommends a minimum of 1.5 meters).

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post #9340 of 9409 Old 12-02-2019, 08:56 AM
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How does the good people here do the calibration? Single or multiple measurement; if multiple - multiple measurements at each seat and/or one for each ?

I do multiple measurements for each position: perfectly aligned microphone between my ears (with microphone stand); then one measurement 7-9cm in front, back, left, right and above (weight MLP 50%; 10 for the others). I repeat this process for each seat if I do calibration for multiple seats.

HT: Trinnov A32 (AL32-1632)/AMP8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 802D3, 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - NORDOST Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
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post #9341 of 9409 Old 12-02-2019, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Berland View Post
How does the good people here do the calibration? Single or multiple measurement; if multiple - multiple measurements at each seat and/or one for each ?

I do multiple measurements for each position: perfectly aligned microphone between my ears (with microphone stand); then one measurement 7-9cm in front, back, left, right and above (weight MLP 50%; 10 for the others). I repeat this process for each seat if I do calibration for multiple seats.

You are way more "anal" than I am. One dead center at the MLP. One about 6" to 12" on either side in the same seat. And then one dead center in each of the two adjacent seats. I have a forth seat that is far to the left that I ignore.
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post #9342 of 9409 Old 12-02-2019, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
You are way more "anal" than I am. One dead center at the MLP. One about 6" to 12" on either side in the same seat. And then one dead center in each of the two adjacent seats. I have a forth seat that is far to the left that I ignore.
I know, no medicine exist for what I have. Quote from my wife when I start one of my endless calibration sessions: "oh God, AGAIN!?"
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post #9343 of 9409 Old 12-02-2019, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
You are way more "anal" than I am. One dead center at the MLP. One about 6" to 12" on either side in the same seat. And then one dead center in each of the two adjacent seats. I have a forth seat that is far to the left that I ignore.
My own approach is probably closer to Berland's. All are at ear level. Fortunately all critical listening adults in our house are my ear height. Although I might do an experiment next time and do an MLP at my six year old's ear height to see if he can tell the difference on an A/B/X test (LOL):
1) MLP at ear level
2) Four (4) measurements in a square about 6" around my ears, using MLP as the center
3) Measurements at the center of the seats to the left and right of MLP (2)
4) Three (3) measurements about 6" from the back of the sofa directly behind left, center, and right seats
5) Three (3) measurements about 6" from the front of the sofa directly in front of left, center and right seats

I use this data for two separate calibrations: a "selfish" one for MLP (60% MLP, 40% at the square coordinates), and an "egalitarian" one for all three seats, putting 70% of the weight on MLP and the square, and 30% on the other two seats. With one row of seats I use measurement approaches 4 and 5 more for confirming sub placement, MSO settings and PEQ for the subs rather than have them for the full calibration, but that's just me. If I had a multi-row setting I'd feel differently, of course. I used to have a separate preset for when the six year old hogs MLP and demanded I sit on the floor below him, but he's come around to letting that position go to our 13 year old Maltese who doesn't participate on AVS (the year old one thinks she's a listener and wants the left seat to MLP) .

This may be overkill, but it gives you the flexibility to explore using lower and higher resolution octave acoustic correction, which is especially valuable now that we can have separate FIR and IIR settings with the most recent room EQ. More data isn't a bad thing, even if you don't wind up using it all.
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post #9344 of 9409 Old 12-02-2019, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berland View Post
I know, no medicine exist for what I have. Quote from my wife when I start one of my endless calibration sessions: "oh God, AGAIN!?"
I haven't done a measurement in about a year, but I know a couple guys that used to be active on the old Audyssey Pro thread that would recalibrate just to "be safe" every six months. So you're not alone.

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post #9345 of 9409 Old 12-02-2019, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
I haven't done a measurement in about a year, but I know a couple guys that used to be active on the old Audyssey Pro thread that would recalibrate just to "be safe" every six months. So you're not alone.
I'm sure I have done well above 100 calibration sessions during the last year. A lot to experiment and test out what works best (read: learning the system). Also done a bunch of REW measurements.

Edit:
Actually very few calibrations done the last 1/2 year. But I will have a two weeks vacation coming up at the end of the year - wife only got one; so I see possibilities

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post #9346 of 9409 Old 12-02-2019, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berland View Post
I know, no medicine exist for what I have. Quote from my wife when I start one of my endless calibration sessions: "oh God, AGAIN!?"
100 calibrations in a year...you are definitely afflicted.
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post #9347 of 9409 Old 12-02-2019, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
My own approach is probably closer to Berland's. All are at ear level. Fortunately all critical listening adults in our house are my ear height. Although I might do an experiment next time and do an MLP at my six year old's ear height to see if he can tell the difference on an A/B/X test (LOL):
1) MLP at ear level
2) Four (4) measurements in a square about 6" around my ears, using MLP as the center
3) Measurements at the center of the seats to the left and right of MLP (2)
4) Three (3) measurements about 6" from the back of the sofa directly behind left, center, and right seats
5) Three (3) measurements about 6" from the front of the sofa directly in front of left, center and right seats

I use this data for two separate calibrations: a "selfish" one for MLP (60% MLP, 40% at the square coordinates), and an "egalitarian" one for all three seats, putting 70% of the weight on MLP and the square, and 30% on the other two seats. With one row of seats I use measurement approaches 4 and 5 more for confirming sub placement, MSO settings and PEQ for the subs rather than have them for the full calibration, but that's just me. If I had a multi-row setting I'd feel differently, of course. I used to have a separate preset for when the six year old hogs MLP and demanded I sit on the floor below him, but he's come around to letting that position go to our 13 year old Maltese who doesn't participate on AVS (the year old one thinks she's a listener and wants the left seat to MLP) .

This may be overkill, but it gives you the flexibility to explore using lower and higher resolution octave acoustic correction, which is especially valuable now that we can have separate FIR and IIR settings with the most recent room EQ. More data isn't a bad thing, even if you don't wind up using it all.
I used to do that and more with my Datasat RS20i. I finally decided to do some A/B comparisons (of many measurements vs fewer measurements) and quickly realized I could hear no difference. When I first did my initial (post Adam) calibrations, I also did a gazillion measurements as well. Then started doing what I do now and could also hear no difference. I only have one row with 3 usable seats. Two things about this approach: (1) I am a selfish listener; (2) with one exception, not a single person who has been or ever will be in this theater would know the difference between spectacular sound and just good sound. When we have guests, they sit in the good seats and I sit in the far left seat as in 99.999999% of the cases, I have already watched the movie from the sweet spot. I can't remember this last time I did a set of measurements in my theater. Diddling with target curves, on the other hand ................
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post #9348 of 9409 Old 12-02-2019, 04:39 PM
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Just switched to the Altitude 32 and am looking for any document with RC commands so I can program my software, I use Demopad. Cannot seem to find any doc online with the IP control codes.

Anyone here have a link?

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post #9349 of 9409 Old 12-02-2019, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
You are way more "anal" than I am. One dead center at the MLP. One about 6" to 12" on either side in the same seat. And then one dead center in each of the two adjacent seats. I have a forth seat that is far to the left that I ignore.
That's been my approach since first use of Audyssey. Pioneer had only one measurement point so the 1st time I used Audyssey (the SVS Sub EQ1), I did all these extra ones to make a square surrounding MLP and for each seat. Did the same with full-range Audyssey in the Marantz. TBH, I really can't tell what difference it made other than spend a lot of time, so I started ignoring the listening square points (higher, lower, in front of, rear of).

When I do calibrations, I fully tilt the seats back so I can use the mic boom to locate the mic at the ht & position of my ears. I have 6 total measurements, your 5 plus 1 a few inches higher for the center seat. I heavily weight to the MLP so the 6 is just fine for my needs. My main preset is weighted 95% @ MLP and 1% for the others. Normally it's just me or my wife & I anyway. IF I had multiple rows or larger room, then I would include other positions and weight them appropriately.

Target curves is where I've decided to spend time with experimentation, not repeated calibrations. The room, speakers, positioning, furniture and I haven't changed

But I have learned, especially with music, recordings have different acoustics & acoustic environments so some variances from the typical Harmon-style curve can be very beneficial, especially in the midrange & bass. On some, I may want less sub volume, some more, some need certain mid freq's reduced, some a boost in the treble range.

Steve

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post #9350 of 9409 Old 12-02-2019, 06:12 PM
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I used to do that and more with my Datasat RS20i. I finally decided to do some A/B comparisons (of many measurements vs fewer measurements) and quickly realized I could hear no difference.
+1

For kicks, I copied my main preset and tried some of the Advanced tweaks, mainly changing IIR resolution from "same as FIR" to its max (either 1/12 or 1/24 octave), changing the minimum freq, changing something else that theoretically may improve bass IF I understand things right. Played some music & movie clip with good sub use and heard & felt no difference at all switching between the normal preset & this modified one. Whatever they do, I couldn't hear it. Also, I couldn't tell if they made a visual difference to the calculated Sub response curve either. Maybe my sub PEQ is that good

On the other hand, I can readily tell the difference when switching between my normal "Harmon-style" preset to one of my modified midrange ones, where I reduce specific freq's that I arrived at with test tone playback. That was developed by doing no measurements, just playing test tones in the mid-range and listening. Improved certain female vocals a lot and also helps reduce that thick sound in the upper bass, lower mids. I use them when needed. And with room measurements, I'd bet they could be improved.

Creating more special targets is the direction I'll spend time on.

Steve

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post #9351 of 9409 Old 12-02-2019, 10:10 PM
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Target curves is where I've decided to spend time with experimentation, not repeated calibrations. The room, speakers, positioning, furniture and I haven't changed
Exactly. Unless something has changed in equipment or locations, there isn't any benefit in taking repeated measurements.

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post #9352 of 9409 Old 12-03-2019, 10:22 AM
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Exactly. Unless something has changed in equipment or locations, there isn't any benefit in taking repeated measurements.
I constantly do minor tweaks on position of speakers. As pointed out, no reason to do new calibration if nothing has changed.

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HP: 2*MOON 430HA D, 2*MiND2 - 2*Yggdrasil - 2*Hydra Z/ZPM - ISOTEK EVO3 Sigmas, Aquarius - NORDOST Heimdall 2 - AUDEZE LCD-4 rev2, 2*LCD-XC - SHURE SE846 - Bose NC 700
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post #9353 of 9409 Old 12-03-2019, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by appelz View Post
Exactly. Unless something has changed in equipment or locations, there isn't any benefit in taking repeated measurements.
Or a significant change in an acoustic treatment plan. But REW or the likes of Audiotools are more comprehensive and concenient diagnostic tools rather than going to the calibration mattresses for accessing incremental change.

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post #9354 of 9409 Old 12-03-2019, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Or a significant change in an acoustic treatment plan. But REW or the likes of Audiotools are more comprehensive and concenient diagnostic tools than going to the calibration mattresses for accessing incremental change.
Not sure I understand this statement. If you do a significant change to your acoustic treatment, a Trinnov re-calibration would most certainly be necessary. How does REW or Audiotools fit into this example? And I don't consider "a significant change in an acoustic treatment plan" an incremental change. I'm sure I am missing something here!
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post #9355 of 9409 Old 12-03-2019, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Not sure I understand this statement. If you do a significant change to your acoustic treatment, a Trinnov re-calibration would most certainly be necessary. How does REW or Audiotools fit into this example? And I don't consider "a significant change in an acoustic treatment plan" an incremental change. I'm sure I am missing something here!
Chuck,
I actually meant that if you do a change based on acoustic treatment that had "significant" impact, you would want to do a recalibration. However, if you're doing some trial and error thing, measuring, say, changes to frequency response or impulse response by trying to get rid of an unwanted reflection, using a REW or Audiotools (or similar) might indicate that nothing has changed so going back to the well with Trinnov wouldn't be as necessary. If you do see changes, then a re-calibration on the Trinnov side would likely be recommended.

Hope that clarifies things...the point being that you don't want to do gratuitous re-measurements and calibration if you, speakers/subs, and the room stay the same. But if the impact of the room changes due to the treatment, then it's a different issue.

Don't worry, I'm not a graphitis nervosa guy these days, even if I do at times like trial and error changes to target curves when I'm in the mood at a content level.

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post #9356 of 9409 Old 12-03-2019, 03:55 PM
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Got it. Target curve changes are always "just around the corner" though today, I used the graphic EQ to try and find and deal with a bass problem that I have with some music.



A full calibration is too much of a pain, particularly getting the mic in the exact right position. That enough keeps me from wanting to re-calibrate.
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post #9357 of 9409 Old 12-04-2019, 04:59 AM
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I don't suppose there has been any rumors of MDS releasing a HDMI 2.2 board supporting things such as eARC, ALLM and VRR or at least releasing a firmware update to support all of those over their 2.1 implementation?

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post #9358 of 9409 Old 12-04-2019, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Got it. Target curve changes are always "just around the corner" though today, I used the graphic EQ to try and find and deal with a bass problem that I have with some music.

A full calibration is too much of a pain, particularly getting the mic in the exact right position. That enough keeps me from wanting to re-calibrate.

You summed it up nicely! I have 3 changes I've contemplated for several years - a slight change to my acoustic treatments, replacing 1 of my subs & replacing 2 '72 era bookshelf speakers I use as rears to new ones. I'll get the mic out again then

Steve
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post #9359 of 9409 Old 12-04-2019, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post
I don't suppose there has been any rumors of MDS releasing a HDMI 2.2 board supporting things such as eARC, ALLM and VRR or at least releasing a firmware update to support all of those over their 2.1 implementation?
Current board is HDMI 2.0b; not 2.1. The next in line is HDMI 2.1, and we don't know if next board will be from MDS.

Edit:
I don't see any point with HDMI 2.1 currently; what is missing from the 2.0 board? eARC is only required if you use apps in TV, which are terrible (use one of the many much better alternatives like for Apple TV 4K).

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post #9360 of 9409 Old 12-04-2019, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by tspotorno View Post
Just switched to the Altitude 32 and am looking for any document with RC commands so I can program my software, I use Demopad. Cannot seem to find any doc online with the IP control codes.

Anyone here have a link?
https://www.trinnov.com/Support_down...e_altitude.pdf
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