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post #10081 of 12163 Old 01-22-2020, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Berland View Post
I'm just counting available channels in Atmos. In my Altitude32 I have 40 available in my Atmos dropdown + LFE of course. More options came after introduction of the 48ext.
If you're counting the so-called "Dolby enabled" channels for Le/Re, Lse/Rse, and Lrse/Rrse, they're substitutes that create a simulated elevation from an appropriate transfer function based on a Dolby Patent. They're intended for people that aren't doing the more typical overhead ones at a physical position, and the designation tells the Optimizer not to remove the elevation notch from the curve in acoustic correction.

You're not going to do a room where you have 24.1.10 and also have Dolby enabled speakers as well. Or put another way, there's no reason to have,say, Lh/Rh speakers and also have a bouncy speaker relying on reflected indirect sound to simulate those same Lh/Rh. So the practical limit for having all available speaker locations with consumer Atmos, 48ext or not, is still 24.1.10.

That doesn't count channels that you're bi-amping or tri-amping, multiple subs taking up individual channels for each sub, or speakers that you're using for specific Auro or DTS:X purposes, of course.

For what it's worth, in an earlier iteration of my room I used PSB Imagine XA speakers on top of my L/R mains and L/R rear surrounds. They gave an effective imitation of diffuse sound above you, but didn't hold a candle to the precision you get from physical front and rear heights (or tops). They're fine for an interim multipurpose room or if you're primarily doing upmixing, but not a best standard for enjoying Atmos for a room unless you get placement right and have just one critical seat.
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post #10082 of 12163 Old 01-22-2020, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Berland View Post
Neural:X upmix is supported on the 3 ground speakers. Here you need to trust me; I have tested it



Supported DTS:X channels = 31 including the 3 ground speakers (+LFE of course).
Please do share. What did you test and what audio comes out of the badgers?

All of Dts's documentation shows 30.2 which makes sense as Dts HD includes provision for dual LFE (never utilized).
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post #10083 of 12163 Old 01-22-2020, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Please do share. What did you test and what audio comes out of the badgers?

All of Dts's documentation shows 30.2 which makes sense as Dts HD includes provision for dual LFE (never utilized).
Berland - you've eluded to content that's not commercially available that you have available for testing/playback. Assuming that you're not a Trinnov dealer or CI yourself, are you a re-recording engineer or in post-production? Just curious. He's not a Trinnov owner, but @FilmMixer is an AVSer and occasional visitor to our thread that works in Hollywood and is in these fields professionally. Marc (Filmmixer) has been responsible for multiple home Atmos mixes, including Dark Tower and Carnival Row.
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Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
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Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides/Side Surround 1, T2 Side Surrounds, Imagine XB rears, Image B6 screens, PSB CS1000 ceilings (6), HSU ULS-15 Mk 2 subs (4) - 13.4.6
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post #10084 of 12163 Old 01-22-2020, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Berland - you've eluded to content that's not commercially available that you have available for testing/playback. Assuming that you're not a Trinnov dealer or CI yourself, are you a re-recording engineer or in post-production? Just curious. He's not a Trinnov owner, but @FilmMixer is an AVSer and occasional visitor to our thread that works in Hollywood and is in these fields professionally. Marc (Filmmixer) has been responsible for multiple home Atmos mixes, including Dark Tower and Carnival Row.
I'm not in the industry, but I'm usually good at finding problems

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post #10085 of 12163 Old 01-23-2020, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Berland View Post
I'm not in the industry, but I'm usually good at finding problems
Lol... What based on your support ticket history trinnov went with:. "We'll give it to him for a few weeks and then we should be good for launch.
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post #10086 of 12163 Old 01-23-2020, 04:36 AM
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has anyone tried using the trinnov with a urc remote using serial commands (via the MSC-400?)
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post #10087 of 12163 Old 01-23-2020, 10:19 AM
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Biggest takeaway for me from Trinnov webinar today: said Trinnov is supposed to be making a demo disc (no confirmed date).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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post #10088 of 12163 Old 01-23-2020, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by gwthacker View Post
Biggest takeaway for me from Trinnov webinar today: said Trinnov is supposed to be making a demo disc (no confirmed date).


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I noticed that as well. In addition that there were plans to make a visual representation of the audio objects and bed channels from current audio stream.

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post #10089 of 12163 Old 01-23-2020, 11:28 AM
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Excellent webinar this morning. Thanks Trinnov!
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Pray for all of our healthcare providers, food manufacturing and delivery workers, all of whom are doing their best at great risk to help us survive the current Covid-19 virus crisis.
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post #10090 of 12163 Old 01-23-2020, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Excellent webinar this morning. Thanks Trinnov!
Agree. I "suspect" the information regarding Neural:X upmix of Atmos is not correct.

Edit:
"this morning". It started at 6PM here

Edit2:
Also good information that small room does not mean you should have less number of speakers (I live by this principle already )
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post #10091 of 12163 Old 01-23-2020, 06:01 PM
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It was interesting (they even answered my SDP-75 question) and I liked the info on various speaker configurations. I'm really looking forward to the next one, on the optimizer, and wishing it was sooner!

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #10092 of 12163 Old 01-24-2020, 08:38 AM
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Will the Trinnov pass Dolby Vision? I just got a C9 Oled. Only had HDR before...but was not sure if it would pass Dolby Vision. And, if eARC is in the works at any point in the future?
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post #10093 of 12163 Old 01-24-2020, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post
Will the Trinnov pass Dolby Vision? I just got a C9 Oled. Only had HDR before...but was not sure if it would pass Dolby Vision. And, if eARC is in the works at any point in the future?
Doby Vision works fine eARC, this is not known - only Trinnov knows.

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post #10094 of 12163 Old 01-24-2020, 09:11 AM
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Also..I had a guy from LA do a basic calibration with the mic....and set some levels. Does anyone know someone who can calibrate a TV and do some more advanced set up's for the Trinnov? I'm in Palm Springs....
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post #10095 of 12163 Old 01-24-2020, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post
Also..I had a guy from LA do a basic calibration with the mic....and set some levels. Does anyone know someone who can calibrate a TV and do some more advanced set up's for the Trinnov? I'm in Palm Springs....
I am in the Inland Empire. I will send you PM.
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post #10096 of 12163 Old 01-24-2020, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
It was interesting (they even answered my SDP-75 question) and I liked the info on various speaker configurations. I'm really looking forward to the next one, on the optimizer, and wishing it was sooner!
Also some interesting things regarding HDMI 2.1; as stated the chipset for supporting 48Gbps does not exist yet, and what other claims to be HDMI 2.1 is just HDMI 2.0 with one or two features from HDMI 2.1. I'm fairly sure we will not see any HDMI board upgrade for Altitude until the standard is possible to be supported with the full bandwidth (48Gbps). This is how I prefer it to be as well, I don't want HDMI 2.1 until it is the real deal. Currently I have no issues with the HDMI 2.0 board, everything just works in my system - and I actually don't see the need yet.
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HT: Trinnov A32 (AL32-1632)/AMP8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 802D3, 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
HP: Matrix Element X, 2*MOON 430HA D, 2*MiND2 - 2*Yggdrasil - 2*Hydra Z/ZPM - ISOTEK EVO3 Sigmas, Aquarius - Heimdall 2 - AUDEZE LCD-4 rev2, 2*LCD-XC - SHURE SE846 - Bose NC 700

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post #10097 of 12163 Old 01-24-2020, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post
Will the Trinnov pass Dolby Vision? I just got a C9 Oled. Only had HDR before...but was not sure if it would pass Dolby Vision. And, if eARC is in the works at any point in the future?
The Trinnov HDMI 2.0 board supports Audio Return Channel but I don't believe it is being utilized by Trinnov. I haven't seen any requests for it either. Many owners [including me] are utilizing projectors alongside the Trinnov and do not require ARC.

I have a C8 Oled and utilize ARC through a CXUHD (rebadged Oppo 203) UHD Blu-ray Player. (We do like utilizing the WebOS apps built into the set, but it is really no different than using an Apple TV). Atmos via Dolby Digital Plus passes just fine. eARC is only needed if you want to connect source devices directly to the display, and pass lossless audio through to the audio processor. The next-gen HDFury devices support eARC audio extraction. https://www.hdfury.com/next-gen-comparison/

I haven't heard any rumblings from Trinnov but I do know that MDS manufactures an HDMI 2.0b eARC board. My guess is that Trinnov is waiting on the HDMI 2.1 board from MDS. While many of these manufacturers are claiming HDMI 2.1 boards, they are really HDMI 2.0 (18Gbps) boards with 2.1 features. The models recently announced at CEDIA will feature 24Gbps HDMI 2.1 chipsets, which allows for 4k 120Hz 10-bit HDR/WCG. The current displays including the C9 can only do 8-bit 4k120p.
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post #10098 of 12163 Old 01-24-2020, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Berland View Post
Also some interesting things regarding HDMI 2.1; as stated the chipset for supporting 48Gbps does not exist yet, and what other claims to be HDMI 2.1 is just HDMI 2.0 with one or two features from HDMI 2.1. I'm fairly sure we will not see any HDMI board upgrade for Altitude until the standard is possible to be supported with the full bandwidth (48Gbps). This is how I prefer it to be as well, I don't want HDMI 2.1 until it is the real deal. Currently I have no issues with the HDMI 2.0 board, everything just works in my system - and I actually don't see the need yet.
Yes, they were pretty clear that HW changes would be required for the next big step in HDMI, though I thought that was 2.2, not 2.1. I am not an HDMI guru, however, but am involved in high-speed serial links (but as part of the analog team) and I expect the jump to 48 Gb/s to be a challenge.

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post #10099 of 12163 Old 01-25-2020, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Yes, they were pretty clear that HW changes would be required for the next big step in HDMI, though I thought that was 2.2, not 2.1. I am not an HDMI guru, however, but am involved in high-speed serial links (but as part of the analog team) and I expect the jump to 48 Gb/s to be a challenge.
No, HDMI 2.1 is 48Gbps. HDMI 2.2 is not defined yet.

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post #10100 of 12163 Old 01-25-2020, 07:25 AM
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No, HDMI 2.1 is 48Gbps. HDMI 2.2 is not defined yet.
HDMI 2.1 supports "up to" 48Gbps (ultra high-speed). HDMI 2.1 is a bit more future-proofed than previous HDMI revisions. The first true HDMI 2.1 implementations will be at 24Gbps (premium high-speed), which supports up to 8k30p 10-bit 4:2:0 video.
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post #10101 of 12163 Old 01-25-2020, 07:40 AM
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I interpreted the response from Trinnov that they are waiting for the 48Gbps chipset. But you are right, the 24Gbps chipset coming is the first step. I'm suspecting it will take a few years until we have 48Gbps (I'm not expecting any HDMI 2.1 from Trinnov for a few years).

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Thanks guys! I have not kept track of HDMI, obviously; I got the 2.0 spec a few years ago but have mercifully forgotten it (also obviously). I saw an improvement going to 4K but honestly think it had more to do with color depth than resolution, at least in my small'ish room and 65" OLED TV (no projector). No rush to 2.1 for me. Especially since I just bought new 4K (18G) cables...

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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Thanks guys! I have not kept track of HDMI, obviously; I got the 2.0 spec a few years ago but have mercifully forgotten it (also obviously). I saw an improvement going to 4K but honestly think it had more to do with color depth than resolution, at least in my small'ish room and 65" OLED TV (no projector). No rush to 2.1 for me. Especially since I just bought new 4K (18G) cables...
You will be fine with HMDI 2.0b for years. No worries

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post #10104 of 12163 Old 01-26-2020, 08:30 AM
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Getting final calibration today by Mark Seaton. He already updated my current 3 subversives and added a 4th.
Now to finish the the rest today.
Can’t wait.

David

DES
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I know this forum is about Trinnov, but I got the Samsung Q900, the 8k at Christmas, on sale. 82". It's big. I can still trade it out, and get the LG C9 Oled, in 77". I know the OLED is a better picture...anyone compare the 2? Will I see a big difference. I have seen the OLED, and it's amazing. I read that the Q900 won't even support true 8K down the road....so, just throwing it out there
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Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post
I know this forum is about Trinnov, but I got the Samsung Q900, the 8k at Christmas, on sale. 82". It's big. I can still trade it out, and get the LG C9 Oled, in 77". I know the OLED is a better picture...anyone compare the 2? Will I see a big difference. I have seen the OLED, and it's amazing. I read that the Q900 won't even support true 8K down the road....so, just throwing it out there
Seriously 8k is no big deal. Where are you gonna get true 8k source material. Reviews state that HD and 4k upsampled to 8k don't look any better. My understanding is right now any 8k is simply upsampling except perhaps for dealer demos if they have like an 8k source usb stick or whatever. If your space is light controlled OLED is fantatic, perfectly dark. If you have a lot of light then OLED may not be as good for you in that space. I seriously have not compared the two head to head. While my theater is being renoved/upgraded I have a fairly new 65" LG OLED in my 1990's basement 5.1 inwall system and the picture is spectacular for such a "small" picture! HA!
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post #10107 of 12163 Old 01-26-2020, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by David Shapiro View Post
Getting final calibration today by Mark Seaton. He already updated my current 3 subversives and added a 4th.
Now to finish the the rest today.
Can’t wait.

David
Usually in pairs, what are your thoughts on adding a single Submersive to your other 3? Noticeable difference? And to that, what are your room dimensions??


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I salute our Immersion professionals: Curt Hoyt to which I am very thankful for positioning my JBL loudspeakers correctly to achieve a very tight bubble and the greatly missed Peter CINERAMAX whose fearless R&D in PRO-RIBBON cinemas, curation of most immersive Kaleidescape scripts and forging ahead to 55 loudspeaker Crystal Led Cinemas will pave the road ahead. And Adam Pelz for bringing the system to jawdropping life!
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post #10108 of 12163 Old 01-26-2020, 11:18 AM
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Agree. I "suspect" the information regarding Neural:X upmix of Atmos is not correct.

Edit:
"this morning". It started at 6PM here

Edit2:
Also good information that small room does not mean you should have less number of speakers (I live by this principle already )
Did you guys already get access to the recording of this last webinar? I couldn’t attend last Thursday, but can’t find it in my list of past webinars either.

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Last edited by maikeldepotter; 01-26-2020 at 11:47 AM.
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post #10109 of 12163 Old 01-26-2020, 12:54 PM
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Did you guys already get access to the recording of this last webinar? I couldn’t attend last Thursday, but can’t find it in my list of past webinars either.

Me neither. I was on a trip so Jon told me to register and link to the recording would be emailed. Due to no internet where we were, I had to wait until yesterday and all I get is registering for the next webinar. So no recording link. Much obliged if someone can please post the link or where to find it.

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post #10110 of 12163 Old 01-26-2020, 01:32 PM
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Did you guys already get access to the recording of this last webinar? I couldn’t attend last Thursday, but can’t find it in my list of past webinars either.
The recording is not available yet; I asked in the Webinar for info about Lb,Cb,Rb (ground-speakers) - I already had the answer but suspected others attending would like to have this information.

If you are registered; the recording will be made available at one point. They might remove something regarding Neural:X upmix of Atmos which was not correct before distributing ? When I get the link I will let you know (suspect you will get the link at the same time).

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