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post #10561 of 10639 Old 02-13-2020, 03:28 PM
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I noticed it on Guadians of the galaxy volume 2. Ir always drops out at 1:09.24 when taserface is killled. This is widely reported over the Internet. That is with my current processor Yamaha Rxa-3050. Haven’t got my trinnov yet.

Other discs commonly reported with problems are Maze Runner. Death Cure. And Pirates of the Caribbean : Dead Men Tell No Tales.

I’ll report once I get setup. Maybe Kodi will be fixed by then anyway. There appears to be some early code working.


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post #10562 of 10639 Old 02-13-2020, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aguy View Post
I noticed it on Guadians of the galaxy volume 2. Ir always drops out at 1:09.24 when taserface is killled. This is widely reported over the Internet. That is with my current processor Yamaha Rxa-3050. Haven’t got my trinnov yet.
When playing Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2 (UHD blu-ray Atmos) over kodi; I get the same issue (1:09.24). Exactly same source played from Oppo UDP-203 works perfectly. Both devices connected to Trinnov Altitude32.
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post #10563 of 10639 Old 02-13-2020, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Berland View Post
When playing Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2 (UHD blu-ray Atmos) over kodi; I get the same issue (1:09.24). Exactly same source played from Oppo UDP-203 works perfectly. Both devices connected to Trinnov Altitude32.


Thanks Berland. Sounds like it a problem for the trinnov too then. It’s up to Kodi to fix. Apparently it’s a fault in the code they having for packing the bitstream into the HDMI output.


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post #10564 of 10639 Old 02-13-2020, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by aguy View Post
Thanks Berland. Sounds like it a problem for the trinnov too then. It’s up to Kodi to fix. Apparently it’s a fault in the code they having for packing the bitstream into the HDMI output.


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I’ve watched Pirates twice before and didn’t notice any audio dropouts. Maybe I wasn’t paying enough attention if others are reporting it on the internet. Guess if I run into it for the time being will try Neural:X or just down convert to 7.1 until Kodi gets patched. You are running version 18.5?
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post #10565 of 10639 Old 02-14-2020, 04:03 AM
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I’ve still these audio dropouts with UHD playback on both Oppo-203 and a Panasonic UB-9000 players . The latest movie to lose audio is ‘Dunkirk’ which dropped for over 5 seconds and displayed computing on the 32’s front panel when playing the Dts-Hd 5.1 soundtrack with Neural X .

Hope there’s a cure found soon

M

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post #10566 of 10639 Old 02-14-2020, 05:13 AM
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Bad discs? None of those lose audio here, but I did get a bad On Stranger Tides 3D disc. It would play, but not rip. I got another one and it was fine. KODI Leia is buggered, however. I've been getting freezes or random stops for months on my Shield (not the only one either). I installed MRMC and it played fine.

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post #10567 of 10639 Old 02-14-2020, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckie View Post
I’ve still these audio dropouts with UHD playback on both Oppo-203 and a Panasonic UB-9000 players . The latest movie to lose audio is ‘Dunkirk’ which dropped for over 5 seconds and displayed computing on the 32’s front panel when playing the Dts-Hd 5.1 soundtrack with Neural X .

Hope there’s a cure found soon

M
Are you using a Lumagen Pro or source direct into your Alt32? Thanks. SJ
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post #10568 of 10639 Old 02-14-2020, 07:49 AM
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No Lumagen , no just from player to 32 to screen . Wonder if HDMI board needs updating? How can you find out ?

M

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Originally Posted by Luckie View Post
No Lumagen , no just from player to 32 to screen . Wonder if HDMI board needs updating? How can you find out ?

M
Send a note to support. I did and they told me my HDMI boards were at the latest firmware. SJ
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post #10570 of 10639 Old 02-14-2020, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aguy View Post
Thanks Berland. Sounds like it a problem for the trinnov too then. It’s up to Kodi to fix. Apparently it’s a fault in the code they having for packing the bitstream into the HDMI output.


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According to the guy behind OSMC (Vero 4K+), this problem occurs because the movies in question are out of specification (blu-ray and uhd blu-ray). All titles seems to be connected to Disney in one or another way. Kodi is working on solving this. Previously Kodi completely crashed, now you only get a break in audio stream, but Kodi is working according to specifications, the problem is that these movies are not.

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post #10571 of 10639 Old 02-14-2020, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckie View Post
I’ve still these audio dropouts with UHD playback on both Oppo-203 and a Panasonic UB-9000 players . The latest movie to lose audio is ‘Dunkirk’ which dropped for over 5 seconds and displayed computing on the 32’s front panel when playing the Dts-Hd 5.1 soundtrack with Neural X .

Hope there’s a cure found soon

M
Don't always blame hardware. Not all blu-ray releases are perfect. If you get computing there is invalid data in the stream from the source disc. Keep in mind that audio stream can be faulty, while video stream is fine (or reversed).

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HP: 2*MOON 430HA D, 2*MiND2 - 2*Yggdrasil - 2*Hydra Z/ZPM - ISOTEK EVO3 Sigmas, Aquarius - NORDOST Heimdall 2 - AUDEZE LCD-4 rev2, 2*LCD-XC - SHURE SE846 - Bose NC 700
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post #10572 of 10639 Old 02-14-2020, 11:10 AM
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Remotes w/ Nvidea Shield TV Pro

Hi,
I noticed that a few folks are using a Nvidea Shield with their Trinnovs. I just bought one to replace my Roku and had been using a Control4 remote, but we just moved to a new city and had my new dealer install a Savant universal remote since he supports Savant and not Control4.

While both work well with the Trinnov, the Nvidea was installed yesterday and, long story short, the dealer couldn't get the universal remote to work with the Nvidea. In looking at the Savant site, they don't list who they partner with and, while Control4 doesn't list Nvidea as a partner, I do know that there is a 3rd party "fix" that could allow the Control4 to work with the Nvidea.

Is anyone using a Savant and have it working with both their Trinnov and Nvidea Shield?

Alternatively, for those of you Trinnov owners that also own a Nvidea Shield, if you have a universal remote that works with both, what are you using?

Thanks!

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Hi,

I noticed that a few folks are using a Nvidea Shield with their Trinnovs. I just bought one to replace my Roku and had been using a Control4 remote, but we just moved to a new city and had my new dealer install a Savant universal remote since he supports Savant and not Control4.



While both work well with the Trinnov, the Nvidea was installed yesterday and, long story short, the dealer couldn't get the universal remote to work with the Nvidea. In looking at the Savant site, they don't list who they partner with and, while Control4 doesn't list Nvidea as a partner, I do know that there is a 3rd party "fix" that could allow the Control4 to work with the Nvidea.



Is anyone using a Savant and have it working with both their Trinnov and Nvidea Shield?



Alternatively, for those of you Trinnov owners that also own a Nvidea Shield, if you have a universal remote that works with both, what are you using?



Thanks!


Nvidia uses Bluetooth to control the shield and needs to be paired. It is not dependent on your URC but there is a proper pairing sequence to be followed. I have a Harmony Elite that I use and it works flawlessly. Savant should work as well assuming it is Bluetooth capable.
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post #10574 of 10639 Old 02-14-2020, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berland View Post
According to the guy behind OSMC (Vero 4K+), this problem occurs because the movies in question are out of specification (blu-ray and uhd blu-ray). All titles seems to be connected to Disney in one or another way. Kodi is working on solving this. Previously Kodi completely crashed, now you only get a break in audio stream, but Kodi is working according to specifications, the problem is that these movies are not.


I should count myself lucky as I have never experienced these problems while using Kodi. This is an interesting topic as the problem clearly exists per review of the internet but apparently not in 100% of cases. Both movies and streamers being out of spec seem to be more common these days creating all kinds of headaches. Unfortunately this is what happens when you give one studio so much power and market share; but nevertheless, team Kodi is on it and I’m optimistic they they’ll crank something out.
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post #10575 of 10639 Old 02-14-2020, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jish9 View Post
I should count myself lucky as I have never experienced these problems while using Kodi. This is an interesting topic as the problem clearly exists per review of the internet but apparently not in 100% of cases. Both movies and streamers being out of spec seem to be more common these days creating all kinds of headaches. Unfortunately this is what happens when you give one studio so much power and market share; but nevertheless, team Kodi is on it and I’m optimistic they they’ll crank something out.
Not often I've heard any of these audio problems in kodi. Most releases are according to specification it seems.

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post #10576 of 10639 Old 02-14-2020, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berland View Post
According to the guy behind OSMC (Vero 4K+), this problem occurs because the movies in question are out of specification (blu-ray and uhd blu-ray). All titles seems to be connected to Disney in one or another way. Kodi is working on solving this. Previously Kodi completely crashed, now you only get a break in audio stream, but Kodi is working according to specifications, the problem is that these movies are not.


Thanks.

I’ve read all of Sam Nazarkos (OSMC) posts about this issue. I believe from reading his posts and all the other posts on Kodi forums, some forums as well as the GitHub bug reports there are a few issues that combine to give similar results.

Firstly there is an issue with the way some software extracts and muxes the streams into the mkv. This issue is related to the seamless branching on the original discs and is an encoding technique theta Disney seem to use much more commonly than other studios. The problem here is that the encoding frame lengths differ between HEVC for the video and TrueHD for the audio. At the branching point there is sometimes an error in the mkv with AV sync as the ripping software doesn’t always deal wirh the frame length difference well. Some people have had success re extracting the audio with something like eac3to and then remuxing into the mkv.

The other issue seems to be separate and related to the moments when the truehd bitrate momentarily exceeds 11mbps. Sams own words on this are”That’s correct. It occurs because the isn’t able to handle this. Unfortunately there is some rationale with the bitpacking routine that we don’t understand. We reached out to the developer but didn’t get any response from them; so we are in the dark.”

He is talking about the code in Kodi. It was written in 2009 or so and no truehd bitrates were that high back then because no one had audio streams with Atmos extensions encoded on top of the base layers.

So I am not sure that the movies in question are out of spec per say but just that the code that deals with the audio was not written with content available at the higher end of the spec. It could deal with everything available at the time but not anymore.

The effects this causes in Kodi has ranged from nothing to most commonly an audio dropout where video playback continues but can also cause Kodi to crash and restart itself.

From reading the GitHub bug tracker the code that is causing the crash has been fixed ( and may even be in 18.5). But the code that deals with the packing is not fixed and so the audio dropouts still occur. This was code based of ffmpeg. The error has been fixed with other code that is present in other software players. Example the LAV filters have fixed the same issue. But the new code is significantly different to the implementation of the bitpacking routines currently in Kodi and so it is not an easy fix to simply exchange the code.

On a positive note Sam Nazarko repeatedly says they are working on it. As you know he does the development for OSMC. But he also regularly contributes code and changes for Kodi itself. So if he comes up with a solution for OSMC then I am sure he will backport it to the Kodi base.

I know this is all a bit off topic so I apologise. I do love the collective knowledge on this forum though and I know that immersive audio is a topic close to everyone on here.


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post #10577 of 10639 Old 02-14-2020, 02:50 PM
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If you haven't heard by now, Chuck/Audioguy is selling his Alt16 and getting an Alt32 and adding some [email protected]@@ Congrats!
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If you haven't heard by now, Chuck/Audioguy is selling his Alt16 and getting an Alt32 and adding some [email protected]@@ Congrats!
Yes! Looking forward to seeing Chuck with his high channel count setup .

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post #10579 of 10639 Old 02-14-2020, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by aguy View Post
Thanks.

I’ve read all of Sam Nazarkos (OSMC) posts about this issue. I believe from reading his posts and all the other posts on Kodi forums, some forums as well as the GitHub bug reports there are a few issues that combine to give similar results.

Firstly there is an issue with the way some software extracts and muxes the streams into the mkv. This issue is related to the seamless branching on the original discs and is an encoding technique theta Disney seem to use much more commonly than other studios. The problem here is that the encoding frame lengths differ between HEVC for the video and TrueHD for the audio. At the branching point there is sometimes an error in the mkv with AV sync as the ripping software doesn’t always deal wirh the frame length difference well. Some people have had success re extracting the audio with something like eac3to and then remuxing into the mkv.

The other issue seems to be separate and related to the moments when the truehd bitrate momentarily exceeds 11mbps. Sams own words on this are”That’s correct. It occurs because the isn’t able to handle this. Unfortunately there is some rationale with the bitpacking routine that we don’t understand. We reached out to the developer but didn’t get any response from them; so we are in the dark.”

He is talking about the code in Kodi. It was written in 2009 or so and no truehd bitrates were that high back then because no one had audio streams with Atmos extensions encoded on top of the base layers.

So I am not sure that the movies in question are out of spec per say but just that the code that deals with the audio was not written with content available at the higher end of the spec. It could deal with everything available at the time but not anymore.

The effects this causes in Kodi has ranged from nothing to most commonly an audio dropout where video playback continues but can also cause Kodi to crash and restart itself.

From reading the GitHub bug tracker the code that is causing the crash has been fixed ( and may even be in 18.5). But the code that deals with the packing is not fixed and so the audio dropouts still occur. This was code based of ffmpeg. The error has been fixed with other code that is present in other software players. Example the LAV filters have fixed the same issue. But the new code is significantly different to the implementation of the bitpacking routines currently in Kodi and so it is not an easy fix to simply exchange the code.

On a positive note Sam Nazarko repeatedly says they are working on it. As you know he does the development for OSMC. But he also regularly contributes code and changes for Kodi itself. So if he comes up with a solution for OSMC then I am sure he will backport it to the Kodi base.

I know this is all a bit off topic so I apologise. I do love the collective knowledge on this forum though and I know that immersive audio is a topic close to everyone on here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I use Jriver Media Center with MadVR and it's Rick solid for me. The Theater view interface might not be as pretty as Kodi, but there two 3rd party themes that make it good enough.

Then if you want you can use their rules engine to add all sorts of info to the details screen of the movies. It's a learning curve but once done you can just enjoy the movies. Doesn't matter if mkv, iso rip or folder rip with all the menus both for UHD or standard Bluray.
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post #10580 of 10639 Old 02-14-2020, 07:49 PM
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Connecting Trinnov Altitude 16 to Crown DCIn amps

Please let me know if it is possible to directly connect Trinnov Altitude 16 to Crown DCIn amplifier driving JBL M2 speakers. If yes, I was wondering if I would be under utilizing Trinnov's processing power since Crown DCIn amplifier is going to apply its own DSP/filters while driving JBL M2 speakers.

In other words, I would like to know if it would make better sense to opt for a passive speaker that doesn't need any DSP (Eg: JBL 4367) to make a full use of Trinnov Altitude's features.
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post #10581 of 10639 Old 02-14-2020, 08:30 PM
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Please let me know if it is possible to directly connect Trinnov Altitude 16 to Crown DCIn amplifier driving JBL M2 speakers. If yes, I was wondering if I would be under utilizing Trinnov's processing power since Crown DCIn amplifier is going to apply its own DSP/filters while driving JBL M2 speakers.



In other words, I would like to know if it would make better sense to opt for a passive speaker that doesn't need any DSP (Eg: JBL 4367) to make a full use of Trinnov Altitude's features.


Using the Altitude 16 with the DCI-N crown amp to handle the crossover and speaker tuning files is perfectly fine. You will still get all the other benefits of the Trinnov. The only downside is one additional A/D to D/A conversion.

If you are using all JBL speakers you could use the JBL SDP65 (rebadged - Altitude 16) and you can load all the JBL tuning files directly into the SDP65. Then you can use any amps you want, and can eliminate the additional A/D to D/A conversion in the DCI-N amps.




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post #10582 of 10639 Old 02-14-2020, 10:34 PM
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Using the Altitude 16 with the DCI-N crown amp to handle the crossover and speaker tuning files is perfectly fine. You will still get all the other benefits of the Trinnov. The only downside is one additional A/D to D/A conversion.

If you are using all JBL speakers you could use the JBL SDP65 (rebadged - Altitude 16) and you can load all the JBL tuning files directly into the SDP65. Then you can use any amps you want, and can eliminate the additional A/D to D/A conversion in the DCI-N amps.

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Thank you. Is JBL SDP 65 already launched? Also, is there any disadvantage of choosing SDP 65 over Altitude 16 from the future upgradability or functionality perspective? Will it pose any issues if I decide to opt for speakers from another brand? Sorry for putting forth too many questions.
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post #10583 of 10639 Old 02-15-2020, 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
If you haven't heard by now, Chuck/Audioguy is selling his Alt16 and getting an Alt32 and adding some [email protected]@@ Congrats!

Congratulations Chuck!! A nice upgrade for an already great HT room. Somehow I knew you would eventually succumb to that siren song


I'm happy for you!

Steve

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post #10584 of 10639 Old 02-15-2020, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
If you haven't heard by now, Chuck/Audioguy is selling his Alt16 and getting an Alt32 and adding some [email protected]@@ Congrats!
Initially I did not thought I would ever need more than 16 channels; currently I use 20. So I upgraded my A32 from 16 to 32 channels. Reason I bought A32 instead of A16 was just in case I would need more (took 6 months before I did the upgrade).

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post #10585 of 10639 Old 02-15-2020, 08:59 AM
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Congratulations Chuck!! A nice upgrade for an already great HT room. Somehow I knew you would eventually succumb to that siren song

I'm happy for you!
Thanks - I think.

I really did not think I would do anything like this upgrade because of the marginal (at best) difference between 7.x.4 and 9.x.6 in my room - and I am still very doubtful that going from 9.x.6 to 11.x.10 will be much (if any) of an improvement. You have heard my room so you can understand my doubts. The first thing I will do when this is complete is to compare 7.x.4 to 11.x.10 (Trinnov makes it so easy). And I will have a friend over so both of us can compare BLIND.

Obviously, I hope my doubts are unfounded - otherwise I am spending a bunch of very serious money (6 more speakers, new ATI amp, and the Trinnov upgrade) for nothing. I will share my findings once complete - and you are more than welcome to come and do the comparison yourself.

All of that said, this thought process started by thinking of ways to clean up the rear of my equipment rack. The MSRP of this upgrade may be the most expensive wire clean up job in the history of home theater.
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post #10586 of 10639 Old 02-15-2020, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
If you haven't heard by now, Chuck/Audioguy is selling his Alt16 and getting an Alt32 and adding some [email protected]@@ Congrats!

Steve: Thanks for broadcasting my intentions before I had the opportunity .
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post #10587 of 10639 Old 02-15-2020, 09:03 AM
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Thanks - I think.

I really did not think I would do anything like this upgrade because of the marginal (at best) difference between 7.x.4 and 9.x.6 in my room - and I am still very doubtful that going from 9.x.6 to 11.x.10 will be much (if any) of an improvement. You have heard my room so you can understand my doubts. The first thing I will do when this is complete is to compare 7.x.4 to 11.x.10 (Trinnov makes it so easy). And I will have a friend over so both of us can compare BLIND.

Obviously, I hope my doubts are unfounded - otherwise I am spending a bunch of very serious money (6 more speakers, new ATI amp, and the Trinnov upgrade) for nothing. I will share my findings once complete - and you are more than welcome to come and do the comparison yourself.

All of that said, this thought process started by thinking of ways to clean up the rear of my equipment rack. The MSRP of this upgrade may be the most expensive wire clean up job in the history of home theater.

Do you know what the extra "floor" (non-height) speakers are going to be? Wides and...????

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
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post #10588 of 10639 Old 02-15-2020, 09:15 AM
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Do you know what the extra "floor" (non-height) speakers are going to be? Wides and...????
I will need to hear floor speakers prior to even considering such an option. I can think of quite a few movies where floor speaker could be interesting (e.g. The Abyss).

I already have Wides. The ear level speakers I will be adding are a second set of side surrounds because (a) I have space and will put them at about 120 degrees (my sides are at 90 degrees and rear surrounds are at 150 degrees); and (b) Instead of a 2nd row, I have purchased some bar tables as second row seating to be used on the VERY RARE occasion when we will need them.

I did the research on the possible use of speakers between my center and L&R but given the current angle of ~30 degrees to each of those speakers, it was not recommended as a place to spend more money.

So I will have speakers at 30 degrees (L&R); 60 degrees (Wides); 90 degrees (Side Surrounds) 120 degrees (Rear Side Surrounds) and 150 degrees (Rear Surrounds).

The 4 extra height speakers will be VOG + 3 front heights.
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post #10589 of 10639 Old 02-15-2020, 09:47 AM
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you are more than welcome to come and do the comparison yourself.
I was hoping you'd say that I'd welcome that very much!

Quote:
The MSRP of this upgrade may be the most expensive wire clean up job in the history of home theater.

LOL - At least you didn't spend that amount of money on special-cryogenic-electrically tuned dielectric-no skin effect-quantum altering-silver interconnects & speaker wires

Steve

Last edited by ss9001; 02-15-2020 at 10:06 AM.
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post #10590 of 10639 Old 02-15-2020, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
If you haven't heard by now, Chuck/Audioguy is selling his Alt16 and getting an Alt32 and adding some [email protected]@@ Congrats!
Why am I not surprised? lol. Congrats Chuck, hope it gives you increased enjoyment.

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