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post #11011 of 11103 Old 03-24-2020, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
Good to know. Is that from the manual?
Don't think it is stated there; I tested it using the step by step approach With C at -10 degrees elevation I saw that the Ch got involved in Center-duty with 3D remapping enabled.
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post #11012 of 11103 Old 03-25-2020, 03:42 AM
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Question Appending Parametric EQ ...

Hello All,

is it possible to append parametric eq settings?
Let me try to explain a bit better :-)

How can I combine saved PEQ groups (those are used for https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...ed-movies.html) with PEQ used to flatten the response prior calibration ?

Is it possible to do such thing without having to enter manually all the values ?

thanks for the help,

Ben
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post #11013 of 11103 Old 03-25-2020, 05:26 AM
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@audioguy

I´ve got a 15.1 system installed in my basement together with an Altitude 32-24. (no tops installed yet, i´ll pick 3 pairs of tops up today and hope to get them installed during this week)
I created a couple of presets with different number of speakers to compare.
I agree to your observations: if you´re really focusing on the MLP, you can get excellent results with just a 7.1-setup.
Every additional pair of speakers adds a bit to this. But altogether, you don´t want to miss any of them.
And if you´re aiming towards creating an equally sounding listening area for multiple seats (i´ve got 2 rows 4 seats each), then the additional speakers add a lot in my opinion.
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post #11014 of 11103 Old 03-25-2020, 06:09 AM
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I moved my speakers so that the front pair are at 30 degrees and the sides are at the same angle. I ran the calibration with front pair and the centre to get the mic better aligned. Antoine from trinnov helped a lot to manage the subs and improve the curves. Really happy with the results. Listened to selection of music and film clips and the imaging sounds really good.
Disney plus seems quite compressed and low level so far.
Here are the pics.
Everyone stay safe.
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post #11015 of 11103 Old 03-25-2020, 07:49 AM
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^^ That is a very serious increase that has been added to fairly narrow band 60 Hz ~15dB dip. I can't imagine ever doing that. I hope you had LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of headroom in your LFE channel.
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post #11016 of 11103 Old 03-25-2020, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venger99 View Post
I moved my speakers so that the front pair are at 30 degrees and the sides are at the same angle. I ran the calibration with front pair and the centre to get the mic better aligned. Antoine from trinnov helped a lot to manage the subs and improve the curves. Really happy with the results. Listened to selection of music and film clips and the imaging sounds really good.
Disney plus seems quite compressed and low level so far.
Here are the pics.
Everyone stay safe.
Very cool on the accuracy of your measurements.

I spent about 3 hours last night trying to 'get it right' (with a l/c/r preset) - still no success.

Whatever I do, I get the wrong elevation between L/R or the angle of the center speaker is not close enough to 0.

I have all the equipment needed (ie boom stand, shock-mount for the mic, laser pointer, round bubble level).
But with practice, I'm hopeful, I'll get there.

I'm going for another session tonight

From your experience - what's an acceptable threshold for elevation difference/azimuth to call it a day? And has anyone tried listening to 'off' measurements in this regard to see if there's a demonstratable difference if the measurements are not that exact?
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post #11017 of 11103 Old 03-25-2020, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaharT View Post
Very cool on the accuracy of your measurements.

I spent about 3 hours last night trying to 'get it right' (with a l/c/r preset) - still no success.

Whatever I do, I get the wrong elevation between L/R or the angle of the center speaker is not close enough to 0.

I have all the equipment needed (ie boom stand, shock-mount for the mic, laser pointer, round bubble level).
But with practice, I'm hopeful, I'll get there.

I'm going for another session tonight

From your experience - what's an acceptable threshold for elevation difference/azimuth to call it a day? And has anyone tried listening to 'off' measurements in this regard to see if there's a demonstratable difference if the measurements are not that exact?
If you are not planning on using 3D remapping, none of that matters. And even if you are, let's just be serious. On the one hand, I redefine OCD/Anal Retentive, but on the other hand, I have my limits.

As you can see from the attached, my numbers were not EXACT but way close enough for my purposes. But as an aside, you can also see that my speakers are all very close to where they belong.

Given we are all trying to stay occupied during this time, spending another 719 hours trying to get the mic set in the "exact" position is at least something to do - but not for me.
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post #11018 of 11103 Old 03-25-2020, 12:37 PM
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In my experience it´s really worth to spend some time on an exact measurement.
I even had measurements that actually looked good, but when testing the setup and looking at the meters, i noticed that some channels didn´t get any signal at all.
I think the more speakers you have (i´ve got 15 on the 2D level), the more important it is that you have an exact measurement, otherwise the Trinnov doesn´t know how to differentiate between to speakers and route the signal to the correct one.
So it´s really worth spending some hours on measuring and also on testing by checking the meters.
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post #11019 of 11103 Old 03-25-2020, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockyAVS View Post
In my experience it´s really worth to spend some time on an exact measurement.
I even had measurements that actually looked good, but when testing the setup and looking at the meters, i noticed that some channels didn´t get any signal at all.
I think the more speakers you have (i´ve got 15 on the 2D level), the more important it is that you have an exact measurement, otherwise the Trinnov doesn´t know how to differentiate between to speakers and route the signal to the correct one.
So it´s really worth spending some hours on measuring and also on testing by checking the meters.
This is my approach as well. So I agree, it is worth the time.
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Hello,

Anyone with a Kalediscape? When running scenes I'm getting a 15 second lag by the time the video shows and the audio is another 5 to 10 seconds. Any way to improve? I had the same setup before with my Anthem 1120 and it was nowhere this slow. I'm using a 4k HDMI cable 5m long.

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post #11021 of 11103 Old 03-26-2020, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaharT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venger99 View Post
I moved my speakers so that the front pair are at 30 degrees and the sides are at the same angle. I ran the calibration with front pair and the centre to get the mic better aligned. Antoine from trinnov helped a lot to manage the subs and improve the curves. Really happy with the results. Listened to selection of music and film clips and the imaging sounds really good.
Disney plus seems quite compressed and low level so far.
Here are the pics.
Everyone stay safe.
Very cool on the accuracy of your measurements.

I spent about 3 hours last night trying to 'get it right' (with a l/c/r preset) - still no success.

Whatever I do, I get the wrong elevation between L/R or the angle of the center speaker is not close enough to 0.

I have all the equipment needed (ie boom stand, shock-mount for the mic, laser pointer, round bubble level).
But with practice, I'm hopeful, I'll get there.

I'm going for another session tonight [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

From your experience - what's an acceptable threshold for elevation difference/azimuth to call it a day? And has anyone tried listening to 'off' measurements in this regard to see if there's a demonstratable difference if the measurements are not that exact?
Are the speakers evenly spaced in your room and the centre speaker dead centre? If not do this. Then make sure the mic is dead centre at the listening distance. Then check the bullseye level itself is accurate. If it is place on top of the mic, connect the mic and turn on, with it muted. Level the mic. Then take the level off. Then b carefully twist off the the mic cover. This should give the heights correctly. If the angles are off you have to carefully twist the mic, readjust the level and repeat. It takes a while!
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post #11022 of 11103 Old 03-26-2020, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
^^ That is a very serious increase that has been added to fairly narrow band 60 Hz ~15dB dip. I can't imagine ever doing that. I hope you had LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of headroom in your LFE channel.
Yes I do. Both subs are rated 1400w with peak 4000w. They are working in combination so should be ok?
Otherwise what will I notice?
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post #11023 of 11103 Old 03-26-2020, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Venger99 View Post
Yes I do. Both subs are rated 1400w with peak 4000w. They are working in combination so should be ok?
Otherwise what will I notice?

If that graph is the combination of both subs, then you may not be OK. Remember, each additional 3b increase requires doubling of the amp power. What will I notice? Depends on how loud you play your subs. For example, if you were using 400 watts of your sub amps, in order to fill in tthe ~15db dip, then, it would take 800 watts to get 3dB, 1600 watts to get 6dB, 3200 watts to get 9 dB, 6400 watts to get 12dB and 12800 watts to get 15dB. And if the sub amp doesn't have some kind of soft clipping control, and because that is a fairly narrow dip, you could damage the driver. Lastly, I just have to believe that anywhere other than the sweet spot, that correction would be audibly noticeable - and maybe even in the sweet sport. But if it sounds OK to you, and if you don't play it very loud, forget what I said.


If that were my room, I would use REW or OmniMIc and start moving the subs around to get rid of that huge dip. You are giving up a bunch of headroom by correcting it with Optimizer.
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post #11024 of 11103 Old 03-26-2020, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venger99 View Post
Yes I do. Both subs are rated 1400w with peak 4000w. They are working in combination so should be ok?
Otherwise what will I notice?
For 10db more gain, you need 10x amplification power... I agree with audioguy, i would never add 15db gain.
If you need so much additional gain for a certain frequency, i´d guess you have a problem with the room acoustics or speaker placement (or both).
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post #11025 of 11103 Old 03-26-2020, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
If that graph is the combination of both subs, then you may not be OK. Remember, each additional 3b increase requires doubling of the amp power. What will I notice? Depends on how loud you play your subs. For example, if you were using 400 watts of your sub amps, in order to fill in tthe ~15db dip, then, it would take 800 watts to get 3dB, 1600 watts to get 6dB, 3200 watts to get 9 dB, 6400 watts to get 12dB and 12800 watts to get 15dB. And if the sub amp doesn't have some kind of soft clipping control, and because that is a fairly narrow dip, you could damage the driver. Lastly, I just have to believe that anywhere other than the sweet spot, that correction would be audibly noticeable - and maybe even in the sweet sport. But if it sounds OK to you, and if you don't play it very loud, forget what I said.


If that were my room, I would use REW or OmniMIc and start moving the subs around to get rid of that huge dip. You are giving up a bunch of headroom by correcting it with Optimizer.
I very much agree. And even if you have the actual headroom in the subwoofer and amplifier, I would never boost like that. I had a similar situation in a previous room and I could get the frequency response perfect with a boost filter - but it sounded awful compared to disabling the filter and my amps/drivers were not limited. It was worse in the sweetspot and other places of the room was out of control

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post #11026 of 11103 Old 03-26-2020, 07:11 AM
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I very much agree. And even if you have the actual headroom in the subwoofer and amplifier, I would never boost like that. I had a similar situation in a previous room and I could get the frequency response perfect with a boost filter - but it sounded awful compared to disabling the filter and my amps/drivers were not limited. It was worse in the sweetspot and other places of the room was out of control

If he has the flexibility to do so, and knows how to use REW or OmniMic, moving the subs to get a much better uncorrected response, he will get much better bass - with much more headroom!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Applemike68 View Post
Hello,

Anyone with a Kalediscape? When running scenes I'm getting a 15 second lag by the time the video shows and the audio is another 5 to 10 seconds. Any way to improve? I had the same setup before with my Anthem 1120 and it was nowhere this slow. I'm using a 4k HDMI cable 5m long.
Yes, I have a Strato and the original version that are paired through their switcher. I don't send my video through the Altitude and my HDMI cables are 2m but I have no issues with lip synch or video response time.
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Yes, I have a Strato and the original version that are paired through their switcher. I don't send my video through the Altitude and my HDMI cables are 2m but I have no issues with lip synch or video response time.
Thank you... I don't have any lip synch issues, just video lag time...

How are you running the Strato if not through the Altitude? Strato to projector input 2?

Thanks again

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Trinnov Altitude 16 : Kaleidescape Strato S 12TB :Kaleidescape 24TB Server :Apple TV 4K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Applemike68 View Post
Thank you... I don't have any lip synch issues, just video lag time...

How are you running the Strato if not through the Altitude? Strato to projector input 2?

Thanks again

All of my HDMI sources run through an Atlona 8x8 matrix switch. The Atlona has two HDMI outputs. One runs to my projector the other to the Altitude. Video goes straight to the projector and audio goes to the Altitude. My controller software handles all of the switching for various sources.
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Earlier on Tonight I had my alt16 calibrated & had an awesome guy from trinnov dial into the unit (Tom) he also helped me a few hours later with a few questions I had about settings & what certain things actually did.
I also ended up borrowing a 3rd sub for the back of the room, 700w triad, I am not looking forward to having the taken away in a few days, I now get why so many of you hav more than 2 subs, it’s just awesome!!
Holy crap my system sounds awesome considering I did all the installations myself including making my own rear speaker stands.
I watched some favourite bits from movies & then played some music using auro3d which I hav to say absolutely blew me away.
Nowadays I’m mostly into movies but after hearing how good a bit of Johnny cash & some other assorted tracks sound on the mighty trinnov I think when all the madness in the world is over I’ll been looking into getting Roon up & running.....
Oh & another sub
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaharT View Post
Very cool on the accuracy of your measurements.

I spent about 3 hours last night trying to 'get it right' (with a l/c/r preset) - still no success.

Whatever I do, I get the wrong elevation between L/R or the angle of the center speaker is not close enough to 0.

I have all the equipment needed (ie boom stand, shock-mount for the mic, laser pointer, round bubble level).
But with practice, I'm hopeful, I'll get there.

I'm going for another session tonight

From your experience - what's an acceptable threshold for elevation difference/azimuth to call it a day? And has anyone tried listening to 'off' measurements in this regard to see if there's a demonstratable difference if the measurements are not that exact?
Specifications on the mic are +/- 2°. And if you aren't using remapping, then the only measurement used is distance.
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Is there a use for a center height speaker in Dolby/Atmos? E.g. can it be mapped into something useful in Trinnov?

I have my Center Top Front (ctf) speaker, which is physically installed exactly above the C speaker (above the screen) - mapped as HC for Auro3d, and Ch for both DTS and DTS:X.

And it's mapped as NONE for Dolby/Atmos.

Is that correct, or am I missing a speaker mapping?

Same for the Top speaker, that is physically installed exactly above the MLP, and mapped as T for Auro3D, and oh for both DTS and DTS:X.
And mapped as NONE for Dolby/Atmos.

Do either of them get mapped to something useful in Dolby/Atmos?

Thanks!
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post #11033 of 11103 Old 03-27-2020, 04:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaharT View Post
Is there a use for a center height speaker in Dolby/Atmos? E.g. can it be mapped into something useful in Trinnov?

I have my Center Top Front (ctf) speaker, which is physically installed exactly above the C speaker (above the screen) - mapped as HC for Auro3d, and Ch for both DTS and DTS:X.

And it's mapped as NONE for Dolby/Atmos.

Is that correct, or am I missing a speaker mapping?

Same for the Top speaker, that is physically installed exactly above the MLP, and mapped as T for Auro3D, and oh for both DTS and DTS:X.
And mapped as NONE for Dolby/Atmos.

Do either of them get mapped to something useful in Dolby/Atmos?

Thanks!
It´s both correct - Dolby Atmos doesn´t know a center height or a single top speaker above the MLP (AKA "Voice of God").
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post #11034 of 11103 Old 03-28-2020, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venger99 View Post
Yes I do. Both subs are rated 1400w with peak 4000w. They are working in combination so should be ok?
Otherwise what will I notice?

If that graph is the combination of both subs, then you may not be OK. Remember, each additional 3b increase requires doubling of the amp power. What will I notice? Depends on how loud you play your subs. For example, if you were using 400 watts of your sub amps, in order to fill in tthe ~15db dip, then, it would take 800 watts to get 3dB, 1600 watts to get 6dB, 3200 watts to get 9 dB, 6400 watts to get 12dB and 12800 watts to get 15dB. And if the sub amp doesn't have some kind of soft clipping control, and because that is a fairly narrow dip, you could damage the driver. Lastly, I just have to believe that anywhere other than the sweet spot, that correction would be audibly noticeable - and maybe even in the sweet sport. But if it sounds OK to you, and if you don't play it very loud, forget what I said.


If that were my room, I would use REW or OmniMIc and start moving the subs around to get rid of that huge dip. You are giving up a bunch of headroom by correcting it with Optimizer.
I think you’re right. I’ll try with REW. The subs have DSP themselves so will try this and moving position. Shall I run REW via my OPPO 105? It has two balanced outs I can use for the subs and an HDMI in from the laptop.
Thanks
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post #11035 of 11103 Old 03-28-2020, 06:31 AM
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I think you’re right. I’ll try with REW. The subs have DSP themselves so will try this and moving position. Shall I run REW via my OPPO 105? It has two balanced outs I can use for the subs and an HDMI in from the laptop.
Thanks
Not sure how you are envisioning using REW with your Oppo.

Are your subs connected from a single output from your Trinnov ("Y" connector) or are you using something like miniDSP or using two outputs from the Trinnov? Depending on your answer will dictate the best way to accomplish your objective.
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Last edited by audioguy; 03-28-2020 at 07:14 AM.
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post #11036 of 11103 Old 03-28-2020, 07:24 AM
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Created a "Corona Virus Preset"

One of my daughters drove across country to live with us until this virus crisis improves. ALL of her income sources dried up. But since we/she are not 100% sure she is not a carrier (she has no symptoms), we are taking extra precautions for a 2 week period.

To that end, when my wife, daughter and I are in the theater, she sits on one end, the next seat (MLP) is empty and then my wife and I sit in the two remaining seats. I had taken most of my measurements at the MLP but did take them in the two adjoining seats. For this Preset, I weighted the MLP VERY LOW and the two adjoining very high. Works like a champ.

The seat weighting factor is one of the many cool features of this product !!
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post #11037 of 11103 Old 03-28-2020, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venger99 View Post
I think you’️re right. I’️ll try with REW. The subs have DSP themselves so will try this and moving position. Shall I run REW via my OPPO 105? It has two balanced outs I can use for the subs and an HDMI in from the laptop.
Thanks
Not sure how you are envisioning using REW with your Oppo.

Are your subs connected from a single output from your Trinnov ("Y" connector) or are you using something like miniDSP or using two outputs from the Trinnov? Depending on your answer will dictate the best way to accomplish your objective.
Omni mic into laptop via HDMI to Oppo via balanced outputs to subs. I can run L and R channels (both subs) together with REW and either move their positions and / or adjust the DSP filters in both (active) subs.
I am currently using two outputs of the trinnov for the subs, one each.
If I get a better result via REW then I will just change the sub settings to flat in the trinnov software, or may use a y splitter and free up a output.
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post #11038 of 11103 Old 03-28-2020, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Venger99 View Post
Omni mic into laptop via HDMI to Oppo via balanced outputs to subs. I can run L and R channels (both subs) together with REW and either move their positions and / or adjust the DSP filters in both (active) subs.
I am currently using two outputs of the trinnov for the subs, one each.
If I get a better result via REW then I will just change the sub settings to flat in the trinnov software, or may use a y splitter and free up a output.
The DSPs in most subs typically have phase knobs. What you really need is the ability to delay the closest set of sub. Use the ability of the Trinnov to provide multi-amped solutions, and you can adjust delays (and trims) within that capability. Run a sub only sweep if REW allows it or full frequency if not. A GREAT starting point is one sub in each of two diagonal corners (assuming you have a rectangular sealed room) Adjust the delays, hit apply and see what happens. Do the same with trims. As noted it is an iterative process!
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post #11039 of 11103 Old 03-28-2020, 06:20 PM
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When I turn mine on I get a clicking noise in the processor before I do anything. It seems to want to sync but not sure what is going on. Anyone get a strange clicking noise?

JVC RS3000 : Panamorph DCR Lens :Seymour New Trim 2.40 140"
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post #11040 of 11103 Old 03-28-2020, 07:28 PM
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Just completed a complete QuestAI acoustic plan for our theater. Amazing. I’m now a true believer in having treatments. The improvement was immediately noticeable. I have not rerun the optimizer, but would this be required after adding treatments? Was going to do it regardless, but gosh things sound good. Wider sound field and clarity especially from my center channel. SJ
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