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post #11101 of 11829 Old 04-05-2020, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Balbolito View Post
Sorry if these have already been answered but i tried to look before i ask.

I do not have a Trinnov yet but i am planning to get one (Altitude 32) in the near future.

1-Would DTS:X Pro work on most audio formats, like would it upmix a DTS-HD/Dolby HD/Atmos to 32 channels? How about standard DD/DTS 5.1? As DTS:X Pro is new i didn't find it in the Trinnov Altitude manual yet.

I am asking as i have already an extra 10 channels of amplification and i can get one more amp for a good deal. then will plan speakers later on in step two.

2-What's the max channel count for speakers an Altitude 32 could do? from what i have read/seen its 30 for speakers and 2 channels for subs correct? (i know about the Altitude 48 EXT but i am excluding that)

3-Is there a chart/graph that has all the full names of speaker locations required by DTS:X pro as some abbreviations are confusing (For example LSS/LS/LSR/CS)

4-In the Altitude 32 the speaker connection are half balanced and half analogue right? XLR/RCA

Thanks
1. DTS:X Pro contain improved Neural:X upmix; this upmix will work on all formats except Atmos (of course, you need to upmix to Auro3D to get any benefits from Auro3D encoded content in DTS, upmixing to Neural:X is not the same). But it will work for PCM, DD, DTS, TrueHD, DTS-HD.MA etc.
2. It supports 32 channels alone (you don't need to use two of outputs for subs). DTS:X contains 30 channels + 2 subs; but Atmos have more than 40 individual channels except sub. It is up to you; configuration is fully configurable by user for all outputs.
3. No, but everything should be easy to understand from this - if not; please ask

The same abbreviations are used in the Altitude's built in layout setup as well.
4. Don't understand; all 32 outputs of the Altitude32 (and 16) are fully balanced. On the Altitude32 you have all 32 channels available fully balanced. 16 of them can be used as digital output if required (separate connection, which can be used together with 16 of the analog outputs). You have 16 XLR and 4 DB25 analog outputs (these contains 8 balanced output each). You should only use DB25 or corresponding XLR and never both at the same time. In addition you have 2 * DB25 digital outputs (type AES, 8 for each DB25 connection).
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post #11102 of 11829 Old 04-05-2020, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berland View Post
In addition you have 2 * DB25 digital outputs (type AES, 8 for each DB25 connection).
Slight correction. Single DB25 output which carries 16 channels on 8 AES3 stereo pairs.

The other DB25 is an AES3 input port, same 16 channels on 8 AES3 stereo pairs. Useful for DCI output from IMS3000 or Barco Alchemy ICMP boards installed into DCI compliant projectors, etc.
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post #11103 of 11829 Old 04-05-2020, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by appelz View Post
Slight correction. Single DB25 output which carries 16 channels on 8 AES3 stereo pairs.

The other DB25 is an AES3 input port, same 16 channels on 8 AES3 stereo pairs. Useful for DCI output from IMS3000 or Barco Alchemy ICMP boards installed into DCI compliant projectors, etc.
You are right; have not looked at the backside for a while, thank you appelz

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post #11104 of 11829 Old 04-06-2020, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berland View Post
1. DTS:X Pro contain improved Neural:X upmix; this upmix will work on all formats except Atmos (of course, you need to upmix to Auro3D to get any benefits from Auro3D encoded content in DTS, upmixing to Neural:X is not the same). But it will work for PCM, DD, DTS, TrueHD, DTS-HD.MA etc.
2. It supports 32 channels alone (you don't need to use two of outputs for subs). DTS:X contains 30 channels + 2 subs; but Atmos have more than 40 individual channels except sub. It is up to you; configuration is fully configurable by user for all outputs.
3. No, but everything should be easy to understand from this - if not; please ask
The same abbreviations are used in the Altitude's built in layout setup as well.
4. Don't understand; all 32 outputs of the Altitude32 (and 16) are fully balanced. On the Altitude32 you have all 32 channels available fully balanced. 16 of them can be used as digital output if required (separate connection, which can be used together with 16 of the analog outputs). You have 16 XLR and 4 DB25 analog outputs (these contains 8 balanced output each). You should only use DB25 or corresponding XLR and never both at the same time. In addition you have 2 * DB25 digital outputs (type AES, 8 for each DB25 connection).
Thank you Berland, appreciate the help.

Regarding #4 i know it's supposed to be 32 balanced outputs, but from the google pics of the Altitude AL32-1632 (rear) i can only see 16 XLR connections. am i missing something? If someone wants to connect 32 channels should he use 16 balanced XLRs and one/two DB25 output? am i understanding this correctly?

One more question related to #2 , I know all speakers are usually equally important in a maxed out configuration but Is there a guide that maybe shows the importance of the speaker positions (other than the main 7+subs) ? Meaning if i were to get timbre matched speakers to my mains and i had more than one option should i like get smaller sized speakers for my front and rear heights for example since they have less activity/sound compared to LCRs for example. and in general what are the lest used speakers in an audio mix? We all know that surround backs always have less activity compared to typical side surrounds for example.

Thanks again

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post #11105 of 11829 Old 04-06-2020, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balbolito View Post
Thank you Berland, appreciate the help.

Regarding #4 i know it's supposed to be 32 balanced outputs, but from the google pics of the Altitude AL32-1632 (rear) i can only see 16 XLR connections. am i missing something? If someone wants to connect 32 channels should he use 16 balanced XLRs and one/two DB25 output? am i understanding this correctly?

One more question related to #2 , I know all speakers are usually equally important in a maxed out configuration but Is there a guide that maybe shows the importance of the speaker positions (other than the main 7+subs) ? Meaning if i were to get timbre matched speakers to my mains and i had more than one option should i like get smaller sized speakers for my front and rear heights for example since they have less activity/sound compared to LCRs for example. and in general what are the lest used speakers in an audio mix? We all know that surround backs always have less activity compared to typical side surrounds for example.

Thanks again
For the A32 you can use 4*DB25; or 8 or 16 of the XLR outputs instead of 2*DB25. The analog DB25 (8 channels for each) are fully balanced as well. But never use both XLR and corresponding DB25 output for the same channels (this will not end well).

In general, the most important speakers in any setup is the 7.1 (or multiple subs). More information about optimal placement can be found here:
https://www.trinnov.com/2019/10/08/l...sitions-guide/
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post #11106 of 11829 Old 04-06-2020, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balbolito View Post
One more question related to #2 , I know all speakers are usually equally important in a maxed out configuration but Is there a guide that maybe shows the importance of the speaker positions (other than the main 7+subs) ? Meaning if i were to get timbre matched speakers to my mains and i had more than one option should i like get smaller sized speakers for my front and rear heights for example since they have less activity/sound compared to LCRs for example. and in general what are the lest used speakers in an audio mix? We all know that surround backs always have less activity compared to typical side surrounds for example.
Berland already stated - the 7.1 are of course the most important speakers in every setup (although even 5.1 can be a good choice).
The importance of additional speakers heavily depends on your specific requirements - room dimensions, number of seats and rows, viewing distance, width of screen, etc.
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post #11107 of 11829 Old 04-06-2020, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockyAVS View Post
Berland already stated - the 7.1 are of course the most important speakers in every setup (although even 5.1 can be a good choice).
The importance of additional speakers heavily depends on your specific requirements - room dimensions, number of seats and rows, viewing distance, width of screen, etc.
I would actually rate the speakers in this priority:
1. C
2. L+R
3. Ls+Rs
4. Subs
5. Lrs+Rrs
6. Ltm+Rtm
7. Lw+Rw
8. Ltf+Rtf
9. Ltr+Rtr
10. Lfh+Rfh
11. Lrh+Rrh
12. Cf/Ch
13. 0h
14. Ls1+Rs1
15. Ls2+Rs2
.....

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post #11108 of 11829 Old 04-06-2020, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berland View Post
I would actually rate the speakers in this priority:
1. C
2. L+R
3. Ls+Rs
4. Subs
5. Lrs+Rrs
6. Ltm+Rtm
7. Lw+Rw
8. Ltf+Rtf
9. Ltr+Rtr
10. Lfh+Rfh
11. Lrh+Rrh
12. Cf/Ch
13. 0h
14. Ls1+Rs1
15. Ls2+Rs2
.....

Based upon meter watching, I would change a few; I would move wides down (but is a function of how close your surrounds are to your L&R). And, in my room, would put LS2/Rs2 further up. Front and rear tops above wides; move Oh down.


My guess is that if you ask 50 people this question, you will get 50 answers !!
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post #11109 of 11829 Old 04-06-2020, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Based upon meter watching, I would change a few; I would move wides down (but is a function of how close your surrounds are to your L&R). And, in my room, would put LS2/Rs2 further up. Front and rear tops above wides; move Oh down.


My guess is that if you ask 50 people this question, you will get 50 answers !!
Not a problem, but these are minor details. Most people usually fail when not putting enough priority on the center channel - which I think is the most important speaker in the system. If it is more important than L+R depends if you watch movies/TV or listen to music most.
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I would move subs to 1
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post #11111 of 11829 Old 04-06-2020, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Based upon meter watching, I would change a few; I would move wides down (but is a function of how close your surrounds are to your L&R). And, in my room, would put LS2/Rs2 further up. Front and rear tops above wides; move Oh down.


My guess is that if you ask 50 people this question, you will get 50 answers !!
Here's answer number 3, based on my setup:
1) L/R
2) C
3) Subs
4) Ls/Rs
5) Lrs/Rrs
6) Ltm/Rtm
7) Ls1/Rs1
8) Lfh/Rfh
9) Lrh/Rrh
10) Lw/Rw
11) Lc/Rc

If the content was Neural:X in the DTS:X Pro release, I'd move Ltm/Rtm down and Lc/Rc up, at least for music content. I really like how the front stage has a little more detail with those Lc/Rc.

As to why Ls1/Rs1 over wides, that's more a quirk where I have front and bed side surrounds in my single row of three seats to mitigate focus point issues if I had the side surrounds directly at 90 degrees.
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Originally Posted by Dimifoot View Post
I would move subs to 1
I love the low frequencies and LFE, but not alone
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Originally Posted by Berland View Post
I love the low frequencies and LFE, but not alone
Well, it’s a list, isn’t it?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
y guess is that if you ask 50 people this question, you will get 50 answers !!
I´d say 60 answers

As i said before, it doesn´t make sense to posts lists. It´s all based on personal taste and the personal environment.
The original poster needs a custom solution and that can (and will most likely) be different than any other setup mentioned before.
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I am looking for a solid 16 channel pre pro which are hard to find right now. I need to drive 9.3.4 Atmos.

I was planning to go with the announced ATP-16 by ATI but this was cancelled. I like Datasat and was hoping for a LS10 refresh but this may be over a year away still. JBL SDP55/Arcam 40 rollouts have been a disaster.

To be honest, I am strongly considering the Monolith HTP-1. It is designed by ATI and with latest firmware is remarkably stable , and ships with Dirac 2.0 (and is currently undergoing testing of Dirac bass management module). And it’s an unbelievable $4K USD

The Altitude 16 is no doubt a fantastic pre pro which I have thought about. But I am having a hard time justifying quadruple the price. Especially because I do not need a high level of complex customization. I will have a bread and butter atmos system in a dedicated home theater (about $80k of AV equipment excluding the prepro).

What will I get with the Altitude 16 over a budget HTP-1? Are we just talking about going from 95 to 100% in sound quality, and adding high level customization ? These days, most DAC have achieved a level of perfection where differences are for the most part inaudible. If you have stable electronics (ex no added noise) and reliable DSP codec, are you not pretty much there ?
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post #11116 of 11829 Old 04-07-2020, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blake View Post
I am looking for a solid 16 channel pre pro which are hard to find right now. I need to drive 9.3.4 Atmos.

I was planning to go with the announced ATP-16 by ATI but this was cancelled. I like Datasat and was hoping for a LS10 refresh but this may be over a year away still. JBL SDP55/Arcam 40 rollouts have been a disaster.

To be honest, I am strongly considering the Monolith HTP-1. It is designed by ATI and with latest firmware is remarkably stable , and ships with Dirac 2.0 (and is currently undergoing testing of Dirac bass management module). And it’s an unbelievable $4K USD

The Altitude 16 is no doubt a fantastic pre pro which I have thought about. But I am having a hard time justifying quadruple the price. Especially because I do not need a high level of complex customization. I will have a bread and butter atmos system in a dedicated home theater (about $80k of AV equipment excluding the prepro).

What will I get with the Altitude 16 over a budget HTP-1? Are we just talking about going from 95 to 100% in sound quality, and adding high level customization ? These days, most DAC have achieved a level of perfection where differences are for the most part inaudible. If you have stable electronics (ex no added noise) and reliable DSP codec, are you not pretty much there ?

Great, and fair, question.

But if you have $80K in A/V equipment (less processor) and hopefully a good chunk of that is in passive room treatment, then you are clearly very interested in much, much, much better than "bread and butter". One can have a VERY nice, functioning, "bread and butter" atmos system for considerably less than $80K - and I mean CONSIDERABLY less - probably $15K to $25K and I know this because I have calibrated (and owned) a few. So, if you want to extract the very best out of your $80K worth of equipment, then their really is no option other than the Trinnov. Can a Dirac based system provide great performance? Absolutely? Will a Trinnov provide better performance than a $4K processor? Absolutely. And if both are calibrated by someone who has the proper expertise, then yes, some $4K Dirac processor might get you 90% of the Trinnov. But an $80K system is not a 90% solution.

I came from a Dirac based processor (Datasat RS20i). One of the MANY things that Optimizer does better than the Datasat and probably better than any other processor, is to get the time alignment of every speaker in the room PERFECT (easily shown by an impulse comparison of the speakers). And THAT translates to better immersion and a more cohesive sound-scape. And the ability to provide much better audio at more than one seat via the measurement weighting function is much more flexible than what Dirac provides. And if you are interested in using all of your speaker when playing DTS track, as of now, the Trinnov is your only solution. And because it is software (vs chip) driven then updates such as DTS:X Pro should always be available earlier than any other products. I could go on.

Only you can decide if the improvement in the audio is worth it but given what you have already invested, you are clearly not interested in just "good enough".

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post #11117 of 11829 Old 04-07-2020, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blake View Post
I am looking for a solid 16 channel pre pro which are hard to find right now. I need to drive 9.3.4 Atmos.

What will I get with the Altitude 16 over a budget HTP-1? Are we just talking about going from 95 to 100% in sound quality, and adding high level customization ? These days, most DAC have achieved a level of perfection where differences are for the most part inaudible. If you have stable electronics (ex no added noise) and reliable DSP codec, are you not pretty much there ?
Besides seconding what audioguy posted to you, I'll add several points why an Altitude 16 became my choice:

1. I also have $80-85K+ "invested" in AV gear, although my room is more of a media room with a top model 77 4K OLED vs. a PJ setup. This includes multiple disc players, even a former top end laserdisc player and legacy top model (at the time) quadraphonic decoders & gear are part of my system. 2 turntables as well. So all is not dedicated to "home cinema". But a substantial and atypical sum spent on gear so using quality gear is very important to me.

2. Prior to the Trinnov, processing has been done by multiple flagship AVR's from Pioneer Elite and a flagship Marantz prepro. All were excellent within their own limitations, but none come close, even Audyssey, to what the Altitude can & does do.

3. I heard a demo of what Trinnov's Optimizer could do in a live demo @ CEDIA 2010 and it was so compelling that IMO, it was the gold standard, even though I couldn't afford/justify it until about 2 yrs. In my judgement, the Altitude is the singlemost best piece of audio gear I have owned other than my speakers, a brand which I have stuck with since the early 80's.

4. In making the purchase decision, I considered the long-term one time cost vs the continuous upgrade cycle buying a new $4-5K prepro every 3-4 yrs. If you want to keep abreast of new formats, like DTS-X Pro/Imax Enhanced etc and refinements, then you will be forever upgrading like I did every few yrs. This is due to ALL other prepros use DSP chips while the Altitude 16 & 32's are minicomputers running software not chip firmware. Adding new formats or other refinements is a free software upgrade vs always replacing your prepro with a newer one and the money losses incurred everytime. Recently, Trinnov provided owners with a free upgrade that takes DTS-X to DTS-X Pro. They're the very 1st to have it while all the other companies have to wait for new DSP chips or the DSP mfgs to develop the FW to increase DTS's existing 11 ch speaker limit. We already have it

5. Customization and extensive toolkit in the Altitude. Dirac is no doubt Trinnov's strongest competitor in the room correction arena but it doesn't quite have all the tools that could be used by a knowledgeable person to bring out the best performance.

I don't have a single regret going with the Altitude & what it's done for my room with my speakers. OTOH, as good as Dirac is, if I had gone with yet another less costly 16 ch proc, I would always know what I bought would be less than what I could have bought.

There are 3 Altitude owners on this forum that I've gotten to know personally over the years and trust their opinions & suggestions. Not one has wanted to go to something else once they had an Altitude and all have said that properly calibrated, it was the best they've had & heard. I don't mind telling you that audioguy, sdrucker and RUR were key people in my eventual decision to go with a Trinnov. They're very knowledgeable & won't lead you down the rosy path as you decide what's best for you.
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post #11118 of 11829 Old 04-07-2020, 06:29 AM
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Question PEQ Sub and speakers prior calibration for ONLY 1 seat ...

Hello all,

Currently my home theater is just a small media room with just one seat .
do you think it's worth the time investment needed to dial in PEQ for subs and the other speakers ? or I just go with the optimizer and target curve and be done with it ?

thanks for the advice,

Ben
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post #11119 of 11829 Old 04-07-2020, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by mandragora View Post
Hello all,

Currently my home theater is just a small media room with just one seat .
do you think it's worth the time investment needed to dial in PEQ for subs and the other speakers ? or I just go with the optimizer and target curve and be done with it ?

thanks for the advice,

Ben

You paid good money for the Trinnov so why not use all of the tools it has to offer? Necessary? Won't know without doing a comparison but given we all have more time on our hands, so why not give it a go?
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post #11120 of 11829 Old 04-07-2020, 07:15 AM
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Could someone maybe post a before and after picture of one speaker (e.g. Left)? What are people trying to accomplish with PEQ? After completing my acoustical treatments, my L and R speakers (KEF Reference), now appear almost identical in the various Alt32 graphs. Thanks. SJ
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post #11121 of 11829 Old 04-07-2020, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by SJHT View Post
Could someone maybe post a before and after picture of one speaker (e.g. Left)? What are people trying to accomplish with PEQ? After completing my acoustical treatments, my L and R speakers (KEF Reference), now appear almost identical in the various Alt32 graphs. Thanks. SJ

Identical to each other or identical to the response prior to room treatment? And I would not just rely on the graphs that Optmizer provides and use something like REW or OmniMic.

PEQs can be used to improve the room response prior to asking Optimizer to do it's thing. And, as I have learned, sometimes Optimizer will, for example, create a large peak in a filter to eliminate a dip in the response that, had PEQ's been applied, a filter peak of that amplitude would not have been necessary.

I now have a bar behind my seating. As a result (and not unexpectedly), there is a huge dip in the response due to phase cancellation from the bar from those speakers behind it -- my second set of side surrounds and rear surrounds. [I use to see that when I calibrated recording studios as the sound from both the studio soffit speakers as well as the console speakers would bounce off the console.] I initially calibrated (after I added these extra speakers) with just Optimizer (no PEQs) and the Optimizer generated filter had a 10dB peak in it centered on the dip. I then used PEQs and placed the desired correction response in a place so that the PEQ filer peak would be reduced by at least 5 or 6dBs and the surrounding frequencies would be decreased (filter increases) accordingly. And then re-measured the room with Optimizer.

In general, I use PEQs for what I determine to be substantive and usually relatively high Q large peaks in response to give Optimizer less work.
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post #11122 of 11829 Old 04-07-2020, 08:33 AM
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I am looking for a solid 16 channel pre pro which are hard to find right now. I need to drive 9.3.4 Atmos.

I was planning to go with the announced ATP-16 by ATI but this was cancelled. I like Datasat and was hoping for a LS10 refresh but this may be over a year away still. JBL SDP55/Arcam 40 rollouts have been a disaster.

To be honest, I am strongly considering the Monolith HTP-1. It is designed by ATI and with latest firmware is remarkably stable , and ships with Dirac 2.0 (and is currently undergoing testing of Dirac bass management module). And it’s an unbelievable $4K USD

The Altitude 16 is no doubt a fantastic pre pro which I have thought about. But I am having a hard time justifying quadruple the price. Especially because I do not need a high level of complex customization. I will have a bread and butter atmos system in a dedicated home theater (about $80k of AV equipment excluding the prepro).

What will I get with the Altitude 16 over a budget HTP-1? Are we just talking about going from 95 to 100% in sound quality, and adding high level customization ? These days, most DAC have achieved a level of perfection where differences are for the most part inaudible. If you have stable electronics (ex no added noise) and reliable DSP codec, are you not pretty much there ?

I would see the whole thing a bit more defensive, Dirac devices don't have to hide from Trinnov in terms of sound. You want to use three subs, the Dirac BM could be a big help.
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I would see the whole thing a bit more defensive, Dirac devices don't have to hide from Trinnov in terms of sound. You want to use three subs, the Dirac BM could be a big help.
No, I agree that Dirac isn't a slouch compared to Trinnov, at least when both are at default/standard settings. Both are top tier solutions, with differentiation on the degree of customization you might use to improve the calibration. I'd guess Trinnov is ahead, especially after the last software update to enable different octave smoothing for the acoustic correction for IIR and FIR filters, but to get the most out of the Optimizer is a lot of work - probably requiring a pro calibrator or a very hands-on enthusiast with some knowledge of small room acoustics - to really get that extra advantage.

Dirac BM might help compared to an Audyssey or Anthem's room EQ, but it doesn't optimize the speaker/sub crossover splice automatically as of yet anymore than Trinnov does by itself. And with three subs, placement, a tool like MSO, and external measurement with REW/Omnimic is going to take you further toward a consistent smooth response across seats than just using Trinnov's active crossovers or Dirac's BM by themselves. Also, three subs are trickier to place and integrate than an even number of subs (two or four).
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post #11124 of 11829 Old 04-07-2020, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by blake View Post
The Altitude 16 is no doubt a fantastic pre pro which I have thought about. But I am having a hard time justifying quadruple the price. Especially because I do not need a high level of complex customization. I will have a bread and butter atmos system in a dedicated home theater (about $80k of AV equipment excluding the prepro).
Of all the home theaters I've heard, which is not to say all that many, but a decent number, the ones that sounded best -- to me -- did not have Trinnovs (well, one had a Trinnov but did not use its EQ). One was Datasat, the other was Anthem.

IMHO what drives the result more than the processor are three things: the room and all that entails (size, isolation, acoustics); the speaker complement, with emphasis on the subwoofers; and EQ tuning. The experience of well executed subwoofers is hard to explain until you've been there. I use the term "grip" because the bass itself need not be overpowering or magnified out of proportion. But it seems like a more direct coupling to your body when there's lots of surface area moving bass vs. lots of excursion over a smaller area. REW may say they are the same, but they are not. The #1 home theater in this respect based on my small sampling was JapanDave's. The second was a virtual tie at Mikela's. I'd like to include Rob Han's uber bass in the same category but either the much larger volume of the room or the setup of the seat-shaker subs somehow did not transmit the same visceral connection. I was not at liberty to tinker with his setup.

Let me put it another way. There is no question that an excellent AVP is essential to getting top-drawer results. Just that I have yet to experience a room where the many additional capabilities of an Altitude would have overcome the shortcomings of either unfortunate speaker choice or room acoustics. Get all those things right, tune it properly, and you'll have a very enjoyable theater that would be hard to top.
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post #11125 of 11829 Old 04-07-2020, 03:53 PM
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Of all the home theaters I've heard, which is not to say all that many, but a decent number, the ones that sounded best -- to me -- did not have Trinnovs (well, one had a Trinnov but did not use its EQ). One was Datasat, the other was Anthem.

IMHO what drives the result more than the processor are three things: the room and all that entails (size, isolation, acoustics); the speaker complement, with emphasis on the subwoofers; and EQ tuning. The experience of well executed subwoofers is hard to explain until you've been there. I use the term "grip" because the bass itself need not be overpowering or magnified out of proportion. But it seems like a more direct coupling to your body when there's lots of surface area moving bass vs. lots of excursion over a smaller area. REW may say they are the same, but they are not. The #1 home theater in this respect based on my small sampling was JapanDave's. The second was a virtual tie at Mikela's. I'd like to include Rob Han's uber bass in the same category but either the much larger volume of the room or the setup of the seat-shaker subs somehow did not transmit the same visceral connection. I was not at liberty to tinker with his setup.

Let me put it another way. There is no question that an excellent AVP is essential to getting top-drawer results. Just that I have yet to experience a room where the many additional capabilities of an Altitude would have overcome the shortcomings of either unfortunate speaker choice or room acoustics. Get all those things right, tune it properly, and you'll have a very enjoyable theater that would be hard to top.
Similar but different experience: every theater I thought ranked at the top had either Datasat or Trinnov. I would agree on a number of things: (1) proper room acoustics; (2) proper room acoustics; (3) proper room acoustics; (4) proper calibration; (5) quality and properly matched speakers; and (5) enough subs that have lots of surface area and excursion to "engage the room".

I have never experienced seat shakers of any type I could tolerate and exaggerated bass, either by having the LFE channel level set too high or a target curve that does the same thing completely takes me out of the experience. But it is a fine line between too much and just the right amount.

And you are also correct about the Trinnov not being able to overcome other shortcomings - but that is true for every processor on the planet.

All of that said, in a properly done space (see the above) the immersive-ness of the space was better when either the Datasat/Dirac or the Trinnov was the processor. But the tie goes to the Trinnov when one wants a high speaker count theater.
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post #11126 of 11829 Old 04-07-2020, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Of all the home theaters I've heard, which is not to say all that many, but a decent number, the ones that sounded best -- to me -- did not have Trinnovs (well, one had a Trinnov but did not use its EQ). One was Datasat, the other was Anthem.

IMHO what drives the result more than the processor are three things: the room and all that entails (size, isolation, acoustics); the speaker complement, with emphasis on the subwoofers; and EQ tuning. The experience of well executed subwoofers is hard to explain until you've been there. I use the term "grip" because the bass itself need not be overpowering or magnified out of proportion. But it seems like a more direct coupling to your body when there's lots of surface area moving bass vs. lots of excursion over a smaller area. REW may say they are the same, but they are not. The #1 home theater in this respect based on my small sampling was JapanDave's. The second was a virtual tie at Mikela's. I'd like to include Rob Han's uber bass in the same category but either the much larger volume of the room or the setup of the seat-shaker subs somehow did not transmit the same visceral connection. I was not at liberty to tinker with his setup.

Let me put it another way. There is no question that an excellent AVP is essential to getting top-drawer results. Just that I have yet to experience a room where the many additional capabilities of an Altitude would have overcome the shortcomings of either unfortunate speaker choice or room acoustics. Get all those things right, tune it properly, and you'll have a very enjoyable theater that would be hard to top.


1. What aspect of the sound quality did you feel was better with a Datasat compared to Trinnov ? Spatial localization or other quality? Do you think these are the best sounding rooms because of the acoustic treatment and speakers - how do you know the prepro is bringing it to that level ?

2. Playing devils advocate. If you take a $4k vs $18k pre pro (Monolith vs Datasat) in the same well treated room with good speakers and sub, both with Dirac 2.0, what is it the 18k prepro is adding ? Is it the DSP board, opamps, electronic isolation/design?

Thanks for all the responses! Very informative.
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post #11127 of 11829 Old 04-07-2020, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
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1. What aspect of the sound quality did you feel was better with a Datasat compared to Trinnov ? Spatial localization or other quality? Do you think these are the best sounding rooms because of the acoustic treatment and speakers - how do you know the prepro is bringing it to that level ?
The key point I would draw about processors is that beyond a certain point, it does not matter. (I'm setting aside all the usual decision factors, like ease of use, channel configurations, creature features, upmix modes, etc.) Whatever differences there may be (and they certainly exist) between Optimizer, Dirac, and ARC as embodied in their respective AVPs, they did not materially impair the end result in these rooms. Rather, the Datasat example, in JapanDave's room (an all concrete bunker with Erskine Group treatment) had the advantage of a superb IB subwoofer setup coupled with Quested monitors that made it work equally well for movie and music playback, which is not easy to achieve.

Quote:
2. Playing devils advocate. If you take a $4k vs $18k pre pro (Monolith vs Datasat) in the same well treated room with good speakers and sub, both with Dirac 2.0, what is it the 18k prepro is adding ? Is it the DSP board, opamps, electronic isolation/design?
One one hand, there are the obvious differences, where the Datasat derived from a cinema processor and has hardware and software features and flexibility that do not exist in the HTP-1. In a sense the HTP-1 embodies just the essential functionality.

As to the DAC/preamp stages they were designed by two different teams with different budgets and philosophies. Only a side-by-side evaluation would reveal the results of those designs. I'd love to see that one!
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You paid good money for the Trinnov so why not use all of the tools it has to offer? Necessary? Won't know without doing a comparison but given we all have more time on our hands, so why not give it a go?
yes I know but incredibly enough working from home is making me more busy than when I was going to the office everyday :-)
thanks for the advice though
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post #11129 of 11829 Old 04-08-2020, 12:30 AM
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Trinnov Altitude

Does Trinnov or AVS Forums maintain a list of Trinnov Certified Installers ? I have searched and cannot find this. I assume it isn’t necessarily your dealer, rather professional audio calibrators / acousticians who do the setup.
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post #11130 of 11829 Old 04-08-2020, 05:22 AM
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1. What aspect of the sound quality did you feel was better with a Datasat compared to Trinnov ? Spatial localization or other quality? Do you think these are the best sounding rooms because of the acoustic treatment and speakers - how do you know the prepro is bringing it to that level ?

Datastat puts you in the middle a of a sweet soft aural marsh mellow and holds you there.

Trinnov lets you know that there is a outer boundary of aural sensory information that you did not know existed outside the marsh mellow.

Both do a excellent job. Depends on how much stimulation you want to pay for.
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