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post #11761 of 12078 Old 05-28-2020, 11:13 PM
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@DonH50 thanks for the reply. well i have been reading a lot about the Altitude the last few months, more than i need to! which made buy an extra 8 channel Crown DCI|n Amp and 8 extra JBL 705i speakers for no reason at all! i don't even own an Altitude and my current processor is maxed out at 13 channels

So if i did that then you would need to jump to 24 channels right away without any delays!

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post #11762 of 12078 Old 05-29-2020, 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post
Good news! Heading in the right direction for Atmos music.

I do love the content on Qobuz - I've found classic jazz artists that just aren't available on physical media, rock & jazz albums that are long out of print or on vinyl only, all kinds of classic rock as well as huge library of classical & world. I have quite a few of these bookmarked in my Roon library and would hate to lose them. So I hope Qobuz also decides to carry Atmos titles. I'll definitely look into what Tidal has. And IF Tidal introduces a low cost Atmos-only plan, I'd sign up for sure. But I'm not sure I'd want to swap or subscribe to both.

Stu, do they have Atmos titles organized so you can do a search just for them? I may be calling soon

I won't do both Quobuz and Tidal. As much as I might really enjoy Atmos streamed music, if I have to re-subscribe to Tidal, I won't get to listen to it. The reason I left was I got tired of Jay Z's genre of music getting crammed down my throat. So unless that has been completely changed, I'm not interested.

When I first switched to Quobuz, they were way behind Tidal in their library size. And while they still may be, it has grown by leaps and bounds. I have no reason to doubt that Quobuz will eventually provide Atmos music. But even if they don't, I'm good!! Given my library of about 1400 albums plus the 14 trillion on Quobuz, I won't run out of things to listen to.

A technical question. I know that 5.1 surround music can be delivered via ethernet to the Trinnov but is there some kind of limitation that requires that an HDMI interface/external box (e.g. AppleTV) must be used? Not a huge deal since I have an AppleTV but I like the cleaner approach that I have now with my music server/Roon box connected via my network.
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post #11763 of 12078 Old 05-29-2020, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
I won't do both Quobuz and Tidal. As much as I might really enjoy Atmos streamed music, if I have to re-subscribe to Tidal, I won't get to listen to it. The reason I left was I got tired of Jay Z's genre of music getting crammed down my throat. So unless that has been completely changed, I'm not interested.

When I first switched to Quobuz, they were way behind Tidal in their library size. And while they still may be, it has grown by leaps and bounds. I have no reason to doubt that Quobuz will eventually provide Atmos music. But even if they don't, I'm good!! Given my library of about 1400 albums plus the 14 trillion on Quobuz, I won't run out of things to listen to.
I think this is your answer as well as mine...from Techhive

"The company hasn’t disclosed what percentage of its library will be available in the Dolby Atmos Music format, but the albums and songs in its press release echo its emphasis on hip hop and pop: Ariana Grande’s “7 rings,” The Weeknd’s After Hours, and Shawn Mendes & Camila Cabello’s “Señorita.”"

I'm a classic rock, prog-rock, jazz, fusion-jazz, classical, world music, even big band kind of guy.

I know of Miles Davis Kind of Blue that was remixed in Atmos but not released or made available on media or digitally. I already own Atmos titles - R Waters The Wall concert, REM, INKS Kick, Beethoven's Symphonies by Karajan, Beatles Abbey Rd, 3 more eclectic titles. And I can find more on the specialty labels.

Bottom line for me is not interested based on what I'm reading. Not worth $240/yr for music I won't listen to. Once upon a time, the 80's, I did gravitate to MTV style pop (the music video novelty factor) but can't stand bubblegummy pop. I can still listen to groups like Duran Duran though Other than Blondie's white-rap Rapture I don't own or listen to hip hop. I haven't seriously listened to what most call "pop" music for 30 yrs!

I'll take a Miles Davis or Pink Floyd (& Jefferson Airplane ) all day long over "modern" music. If you include my legacy quadraphonic LPs & 5.1 SACD/DVD-A, I already own a whole lot more multichannel music than stereo. Atmos music would be nice but isn't a must-have.

I decided to go with Qobuz based on your own experience with Tidal and tastes in music which I think mostly align with mine.

Plus I'm not giving up all the good stuff I've found on Qobuz just for a select few Atmos tracks. Qobuz even has the late 60's East Meets West, a collaboration between the classical violinist Yehudi Menuhin & Ravi Shankar - how cool is that? I doubt Jay Z's much interested in acquiring that one! And found a long out-of-print vinyl-only album by Chuck Mangione. I ruined my quad LP of that one years ago from using an anti-static liquid; every used copy I bought (4) on Ebay sounds like they were played with a fork; to find it on Qobuz was a delight! - just add DSU/Auro.

Good news Atmos music is becoming more mainstream but one still has to enjoy the music.

I got that off my chest Back to Trinnov...

Steve

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post #11764 of 12078 Old 05-29-2020, 07:26 AM
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I listened to a couple of Tidal Atmos albums.
It was clearly compressed, with occasional dropouts.

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post #11765 of 12078 Old 05-29-2020, 09:16 AM
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^^
Disappointing but perhaps not surprising, considering they've targeted users with soundbars, smart speakers etc who won't hear a difference.

If this is consistently the quality they're aiming for, that confirms it for me. Qobuz hi-rez is exactly that: 88.2, 96 & 192K, all 24 bit and no MQA. Even if Tidal's Atmos streams are 48K or MQA'd, that's 12 vs 2 ch so wouldn't be surprising if compression is their norm. The dropouts could be temporary since it's a new thing with new signups and high traffic will probably settle down.

When I read these kind of announcements, I look for the targeted users & devices. AmazonHD & Amazon Atmos Music were initially targeted for Amazon Echo smart speakers. Tidal said their compatible devices include soundbars, streaming apps on Atmos enabled mobile devices (!), built-in TV Atmos speakers as well as the top 4K video streamers. Some compromises may be expected.

Steve

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post #11766 of 12078 Old 05-29-2020, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post
I think this is your answer as well as mine...from Techhive

"The company hasn’t disclosed what percentage of its library will be available in the Dolby Atmos Music format, but the albums and songs in its press release echo its emphasis on hip hop and pop: Ariana Grande’s “7 rings,” The Weeknd’s After Hours, and Shawn Mendes & Camila Cabello’s “Señorita.”"
It's not ALL that way - there's several classical listings (I want to say performed by Daniel Bareneboim), and other classic rock artists that have a handful of songs mixed into Dolby Atmos Music. Lynyrd Skynyrd, Pat Benatar, and The Band have four or more cuts on Tidal, from a quick look. There's also electronica ("Atmos for Androids") and the likes of Coldplay, Weezer and Lady Gaga LOL. Also a playlist of jazz clips, but I haven't listened in much detail to that yet.

Quote:
I know of Miles Davis Kind of Blue that was remixed in Atmos but not released or made available on media or digitally. I already own Atmos titles - R Waters The Wall concert, REM, INKS Kick, Beethoven's Symphonies by Karajan, Beatles Abbey Rd, 3 more eclectic titles. And I can find more on the specialty labels.
Purely anecdotal, but I wonder if the REM mix is the same one on the BD. I remember having content that used my Lc/Rc to pull out the center stage with more detail, i.e. on "Drive". But those speakers are silent on the Tidal Atmos version of that song, although they do play on others. Something to investigate this weekend....but since there's so few albums in Atmos on BD I could live with a slightly different mix that does discrete object passthrough with "most" of my speakers. And I really like Blondie's "Call Me" in Atmos, with the organ standing out in the mix toward the side and rears...so more instrument detail, not to mention that Sheryl Crow classic "All I Want to Do".

Quote:
Bottom line for me is not interested based on what I'm reading. Not worth $240/yr for music I won't listen to. Once upon a time, the 80's, I did gravitate to MTV style pop (the music video novelty factor) but can't stand bubblegummy pop. I can still listen to groups like Duran Duran though Other than Blondie's white-rap Rapture I don't own or listen to hip hop. I haven't seriously listened to what most call "pop" music for 30 yrs!
Rapture is old school hip-hop. But I'm a bit fond of LL Cool J and Public Enemy. YMMV.

If you're expecting The Beatles or Stones on Tidal, I'm guessing you've got a wait. Right now isn't just Universal working with Tidal?


Quote:
I'll take a Miles Davis or Pink Floyd (& Jefferson Airplane ) all day long over "modern" music. If you include my legacy quadraphonic LPs & 5.1 SACD/DVD-A, I already own a whole lot more multichannel music than stereo. Atmos music would be nice but isn't a must-have.
LOL on the Airplane. Except for the quad version of Volunteers, nothing in the JA/JS catalog is in anything higher resolution than stereo. FWIW I'm casual friends with Cathy Richardson, the singer from the Chicago area that's leading the current version of Jefferson Starship (no originals other than an 80+ David Freiberg still active under that name, but they still tour), and she knows that some of us have home theatres and would really appreciate remastering of the back catalog into multichannel resolution. I just don't know how much demand there is for it or whether she has much sway on the subject with RCA Legacy or Rhino (the latter has the rights to the last two classic JA albums in 1972-73 and Jefferson Starship from 1974 to 1984). But I think you're looking for another quantum reality, as Paul Kantner of the Airplane used to say, if you expect Blows Against the Empire in Atmos.
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post #11767 of 12078 Old 05-29-2020, 11:45 AM
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^^
Disappointing but perhaps not surprising, considering they've targeted users with soundbars, smart speakers etc who won't hear a difference.

If this is consistently the quality they're aiming for, that confirms it for me. Qobuz hi-rez is exactly that: 88.2, 96 & 192K, all 24 bit and no MQA. Even if Tidal's Atmos streams are 48K or MQA'd, that's 12 vs 2 ch so wouldn't be surprising if compression is their norm. The dropouts could be temporary since it's a new thing with new signups and high traffic will probably settle down.
No dropouts with Tidal for Atmos Music so far. But as much as I like hi-rez at 96 kHz or higher, considering that Neural:X with DTS:X Pro is limited to 48 kHz and there's very little Atmos native content that's more than 48 kHz, you're getting into a tradeoff. If you want that 192 kHz two-channel music played back in native format to get the highest resolution, go for it.

Quote:
When I read these kind of announcements, I look for the targeted users & devices. AmazonHD & Amazon Atmos Music were initially targeted for Amazon Echo smart speakers. Tidal said their compatible devices include soundbars, streaming apps on Atmos enabled mobile devices (!), built-in TV Atmos speakers as well as the top 4K video streamers. Some compromises may be expected.
Agreed. I'm actually pleasantly surprised that anyone (Tidal or otherwise) is releasing anything more than some bastardized virtualization for headphones or something that can be played on an Amazon Echo or soundbar as a glorified upmixer. Could it be "better"? Sure. But it's a lot better from what I've heard than a bunch of preprinted Disney mixes. At least we're getting more of a workout for our higher channel counts...maybe it says something about the state of our industry that the Tidal/Universal mixes actually being in something close to the intent of Atmos to use objects and speaker locations to provide more immersive resolution is the surprise.
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post #11768 of 12078 Old 05-29-2020, 12:27 PM
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^^
Well I'm glad there's more there than hip hop & pop.


The Band & Pat Benatar is welcome. Don't know if you know but Music from Big Pink was released years ago as a 5.1 on DVD-A & it's pretty darn good. They may have refreshed that mix. Pat Benatar wasn't ever mixed in 5.1 except for a live concert Silverline DVD-A and it wasn't supposed to be that good sonically. So maybe they do have some variety for us gray hairs too

I wish there was a master list somewhere of all music mastered in Atmos and available on the streaming platforms but so far I haven't found one, not from Dolby, not from Amazon & not on Tidal's portal. I guess it's like opening Door # 1 and seeing what prize you got - the new car or a sweeper.


EDIT - I see that you can search for Atmos titles on the Tidal app. I assume that presupposes you have signed up already. I guess the only way to see a list is to signup for free trial, check what's there and then don't renew after the trial. Shouldn't be this hard.

Steve

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post #11769 of 12078 Old 05-29-2020, 12:51 PM
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Here's one for all of us.

In years past I've always avoided running my various monoblock amplifiers through power conditioners, but connect straight to each amp's own dedicated circuit.

However, in figuring out my theater upgrade & renovation, I decided to sell of my two PS Audio P5 Power Plants, and have coming in a PS Audio P20 Power Plant (rated 2000VA, 3600VA peak, 20 amp circuit), with plenty of outlets, 5 zones, including 2 zones that can be high current.

I will be powering my Sony 5000 projector off a separate Furman power conditioner 20 amp. All front end components off the P20.

My plan has been to keep 3 Theta Digital Prometheus monoblocks (NCore 1200) for front 3 Aerial Acoustics 7t floorstanders. Also use a Trinnov Amplitude 8 (NCore 1200) for remaining 8 base layer channels.
And use a Trinnov Amplitude 8m (NCore 500) and also an ATI multi-channel amp I have (NCore 500) for the inceiling channels.

I will wire dedicated circuits for the 3 Theta Digital Prometheus monoblocks - but I can also try plugging them into the PS Audio P20. Observations and thoughts on this?

I am also considering continuing to "clean up" the new install by selling the 3 Theta Digital Prometheus monoblocks (and the ATI amp), getting another Trinnov Amplitude 8 (NCore 1200). However, if I decide to do this, my thoughts are 8 base channels are simply too much of a power draw on the PS Audio P20 and I would definitely only want to plug this Amplitude 8 amplifier into its own dedicated wall outlet. Observations and thoughts on this?

(Actually, the Amplitude 8 has 2 15 amp IEC inputs, I assume each IEC input powering 4 channels each.)
I am not a big believer in the need for power conditioning so keep my bias in mind.

I would definitely install 20-A circuits everywhere if not 30-A. Catch is a 30-A outlet is not compatible with standard 15-A plugs; 20-A outlets are. You could pay a little more and run separate 20-A wires to each outlet in a duplex wall box.

I would put the "low-level" gear on the P20 and leave the amps plugged straight into the wall. Chances are you'll never come close to peaking them out, but that is too much power for a single 20-A circuit.

For reference, the NEC (I think, have not looked in a while) and our local code is to load a single line no more than 80%. A breaker will typically pass 2x or more the amperage for a very short burst so will ride out audio peaks.

15 A, 120 V = 1800 W; 80% = 1440 W
20 A, 120 V = 2400 W; 80% = 1920W
30 A, 120 V = 3600 W; 80% = 2880 W

Most really high-power audio installations use 220/240 V lines.

FWIWFM - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley

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post #11770 of 12078 Old 05-29-2020, 01:43 PM
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Thanks Don.

Actually my existing theater has all dedicated circuits, wired 10 guage, 15 amps, to change to 20 amps only need to change at the breaker box. As we are renovating, I plan to put in dedicated 15 and 20 amp circuits as necessary (taking out some that are not needed in the theater itself) in the back (hidden) component rack area.

Pray for all of our healthcare providers, food manufacturing and delivery workers, all of whom are doing their best at great risk to help us survive the current Covid-19 virus crisis.
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Regarding dropouts of Tidal Atmos that I mentioned above, I have to correct myself:

These weren’t dropouts, it only happens when the screensaver of the AppleTv initiates or changes theme. I didn’t notice that yesterday.

I disabled it and the dropouts stopped.

But it does sound compressed.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimifoot View Post
Regarding dropouts of Tidal Atmos that I mentioned above, I have to correct myself:

These weren’t dropouts, it only happens when the screensaver of the AppleTv initiates or changes theme. I didn’t notice that yesterday.

I disabled it and the dropouts stopped.

But it does sound compressed.
How do you get Atmos from Tidal via Apple TV 4K? It is not supported.

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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
I am not a big believer in the need for power conditioning so keep my bias in mind.

Most really high-power audio installations use 220/240 V lines.

FWIWFM - Don
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How do you get Atmos from Tidal via Apple TV 4K? It is not supported.
It is now.
Update your Tidal up, scroll down on Explore and you will find the Atmos albums
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post #11775 of 12078 Old 05-29-2020, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Dimifoot View Post
Regarding dropouts of Tidal Atmos that I mentioned above, I have to correct myself:

These weren’t dropouts, it only happens when the screensaver of the AppleTv initiates or changes theme. I didn’t notice that yesterday.

I disabled it and the dropouts stopped.

But it does sound compressed.
For what it's worth, the Altitude shows the playback of the Atmos tracks as Atmos/Dolby TrueHD, 48 kHz, and 12.8 Mbps. That could be the encoding on the ATV vs. what the actual playback of the mix is, though.
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post #11776 of 12078 Old 05-29-2020, 10:42 PM
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For what it's worth, the Altitude shows the playback of the Atmos tracks as Atmos/Dolby TrueHD, 48 kHz, and 12.8 Mbps. That could be the encoding on the ATV vs. what the actual playback of the mix is, though.


As I mentioned in the Atmos thread.

That is a bug with the Altitude. It is reporting PCM MAT as TrueHD.. you should see that on every Atmos show coming from the Apple TV.

The Monoprice HTP-1 had the same behavior early on. It was quickly remedied.
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post #11777 of 12078 Old 05-30-2020, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Dimifoot View Post
It is now.
Update your Tidal up, scroll down on Explore and you will find the Atmos albums
Yes, you find the Atmos albums, but they are not played in Atmos but in 5.1

Edit:
Tidal App was not updated, my mistake


Tidal with Atmos being played. Only waiting for Roon to align with the world of Atmos.

R.E.M. Automatic For The People
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post #11778 of 12078 Old 05-30-2020, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
This is what I thought you were doing. You don’t want to AL32 to optimize each sub individually, but as a whole, like you are doing with the MiniDSP.

Set the Sub channel up as a 4-way speaker, using the Active Crossover tab. Then set the gain and delays for each sub to align them, then when you run optimizer it will optimize them as one large subwoofer, like MiniDSP is doing.

The way you currently have it setup would be as if you EQ’d the 4 separate outputs on the MiniDSP separately, then just turned them all on a took a measurement.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Sorry for the late reply, thank you for clarifying this

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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Exactly. What mkohman has done is prove Adam's and other posters' argument that treating the individual subs as separate output channels (S1-S6), and then measuring them playing together in his "RED" measurement in REW, does not optimally capture the interaction of the subs as a summated sub response (single large sub) as he's seeing with the BLUE and GREEN measurements. That's not so much a limitation of the Altitude as a limitation of setting multiple subs as individual channels on the Speaker Configuration Menu vs. having them operate as channels in an n-way sub (speaker) in the Active Crossover menu. You can set level and delay there for the individual subs if you've measured them with a tool like MSO for an optimized calculation for the overall bass response, and the Altitude will then measure the level/delay and use PEQ for the single summated sub response - just make sure that you copy "global" sub PEQ to all ways to get the PEQ to work correctly. Jon Herron discussed the Active Crossover approach in some of the Trinnov training sessions over the past month.

While the answer with just the Altitude 32 in play is to use the Active Crossover options for an n-way setup as mkohman's doing with the MiniDSP, there's a limitation in the current software that only allows four drivers (subs) on that menu. That would be an argument for using a MiniDSP to manage the six subs together so the Altitude is just dealing with the summated sub response. Supposedly a future software releases will allow an unlimited number of subs to be set up in Active Crossover, as Jon had indicated was in the pipeline.

Once that's done, whether you want to use the Altitude's Active Crossover or MiniDSP to manage the individual subs, and their level/delay (and/or individual PEQ settings) is a matter of taste. If you're doing the management in the Altitude, you're using up six channels for subs rather than one, which could be used for additional speakers for 3D audio or for other speakers that have an active driver design. On an Altitude 16, it would be a relatively inefficient use of the available channels if you have a 3D audio setup, but that's less of an issue on the A32 if you have the channels to burn.
Sorry for the late reply, thank you for explaining this and it makes absolute sense apart from saving channel outputs the miniDSP is also essential for BEQ which I find absolutely necessary for movies especially with the Studios limiting out Bass signals on BluRay and 4K Releases. If only there was a way to implement the BEQ .xml files into the Altitude to merge with the sub response. That would be bliss
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post #11779 of 12078 Old 05-30-2020, 03:04 AM
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Regarding dropouts of Tidal Atmos that I mentioned above, I have to correct myself:

These weren’t dropouts, it only happens when the screensaver of the AppleTv initiates or changes theme. I didn’t notice that yesterday.

I disabled it and the dropouts stopped.

But it does sound compressed.
Compressed ? Are you talking about the lossy part or dynamic compression? They are low masterings according to guidelines from Dolby. If all audio objects have max level (read: low dynamic range), you will be in trouble when multiple of these objects intersect and are rendered in on speaker. Sounded good when I tested R.E.M. and Norah Jones at least. Not sure how the bitstream is sent; could be Dolby Digital+ over the wire from Tidal ?

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post #11780 of 12078 Old 05-30-2020, 06:02 AM
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I'm so happy that I live in Europe

The way things are going in our US, I don't blame you! Wish I could visit your country. My wife & I still have our 70's era wood cross-country skis hanging in the garage for nostalgic value. Used to have pine tar & wax parties. Of course, waxing has a whole different meaning today
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post #11781 of 12078 Old 05-30-2020, 06:56 AM
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Compressed ? Are you talking about the transfer of audio or dynamic compression? They are low masterings according to guidelines from Dolby. If all audio objects have max level (read: low dynamic range), you will be in trouble when multiple of these objects intersect and are rendered in on speaker. Sounded good when I tested R.E.M. and Norah Jones at least. Not sure how the bitstream is sent; could be Dolby Digital+ over the wire from Tidal ?
Sounds like 192 mp3

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post #11782 of 12078 Old 05-30-2020, 06:59 AM
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Sounds like 192 mp3
That is because it most likely is Dolby Digital+ with Atmos extension. The Altitude claim it receives TrueHD...

Derailed to some more exotic music from the Farao Islands (English version also exist, but the original is the best).


Edit:
Sorry, Roon in Norwegian language today (working on tuning the translations, fixed a lot since the Norwegian language got introduced as beta in previous version of Roon, the beta-tagging will soon be removed) But magical recording!

Wife sent up to the mountain (not as bad as it sounds). I have the place to myself! Replacement of surround and surround rear speaker cables later tonight (Kimber KWIK-12)
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post #11783 of 12078 Old 05-30-2020, 08:12 AM
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Apologise in advance if this has already been covered before but is there anyway that I can program my Harmony remote to turn on and off my AL32? I was able to do this with my previous AL16 by programing pressing the info button for 3 seconds but this method doesn't seem to work on the AL32. Is there anything I am missing here? Thank you .
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post #11784 of 12078 Old 05-30-2020, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by mkohman View Post
Apologise in advance if this has already been covered before but is there anyway that I can program my Harmony remote to turn on and off my AL32? I was able to do this with my previous AL16 by programing pressing the info button for 3 seconds but this method doesn't seem to work on the AL32. Is there anything I am missing here? Thank you .
Turn to standby is not possible on the AL32 via IR. So short answer: No.

Easiest way to solve this is using the triggers. I have connected my Oppo UDP-203 (with display turned default to off; and important - don't leave a disc in player). I then use the Oppo UDP-203 to turn no the AL32, which again turns on a bunch of amplifiers and active subs.
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post #11785 of 12078 Old 05-30-2020, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Berland View Post
Turn to standby is not possible on the AL32 via IR. So short answer: No.

Easiest way to solve this is using the triggers. I have connected my Oppo UDP-203 (with display turned default to off; and important - don't leave a disc in player). I then use the Oppo UDP-203 to turn no the AL32, which again turns on a bunch of amplifiers and active subs.

Thank you @Berland
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post #11786 of 12078 Old 05-30-2020, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mkohman View Post
Apologise in advance if this has already been covered before but is there anyway that I can program my Harmony remote to turn on and off my AL32? I was able to do this with my previous AL16 by programing pressing the info button for 3 seconds but this method doesn't seem to work on the AL32. Is there anything I am missing here? Thank you .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berland View Post
Turn to standby is not possible on the AL32 via IR. So short answer: No.

Easiest way to solve this is using the triggers. I have connected my Oppo UDP-203 (with display turned default to off; and important - don't leave a disc in player). I then use the Oppo UDP-203 to turn no the AL32, which again turns on a bunch of amplifiers and active subs.
What he said. I am not always using my Oppo so I bought about $50 USD worth of components including a cheap IR relay, wired them together, trained my Harmony, and now everything works. Discussion here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...-7#post-409837

I soldered the wires but you could twist and wrap or use splice connectors or whatever.

HTH - Don
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post #11787 of 12078 Old 05-30-2020, 08:30 PM
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Oh Oh!

I made the "mistake" of watching another Trinnov Seminar on "speaker declaration, channel mapping and listening modes".

They discussed how bass from any speaker can be "sent" to another speaker or subwoofer. E.G., top front heights to front subwoofers; top rear heights to rear subwoofers.

My latest plan was to use one output of the Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channels) for subwoofers. 6 21" sealed in front under screen, 6 21" sealed in 2 stacks at rear hidden by cabinets/components.
Two sub amps with two amp modules each, each module drives 3 subs. So if I use a Q-Sys Core 110f, I'll use one input, and four outputs, and Adam Pelz can do his magic, set individual delays for each set of 3 subwoofers, etc.

On the other hand, the $$ I spend for a Q-Sys Core 110f can just as well be spent to add 8 more channels (more than I would need. HA!) to my Trinnov Altitude 32 ($5100 msrp if I recall correctly for the upgrade). This would give Adam the flexibility to assign bass speaker to speaker or speaker to front or back subs or even left front/right front or back subs (as the back subs are in two rows next to each other I sort of doubt it would make sense to send to only one row)?

On the other hand, having all of the subwoofers function optimized as one gives us similar bass response at each seat. That may well be most important and override other considerations.

Comments, anyone?

Pray for all of our healthcare providers, food manufacturing and delivery workers, all of whom are doing their best at great risk to help us survive the current Covid-19 virus crisis.
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post #11788 of 12078 Old 05-30-2020, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Oh Oh!

I made the "mistake" of watching another Trinnov Seminar on "speaker declaration, channel mapping and listening modes".

They discussed how bass from any speaker can be "sent" to another speaker or subwoofer. E.G., top front heights to front subwoofers; top rear heights to rear subwoofers.

My latest plan was to use one output of the Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channels) for subwoofers. 6 21" sealed in front under screen, 6 21" sealed in 2 stacks at rear hidden by cabinets/components.
Two sub amps with two amp modules each, each module drives 3 subs. So if I use a Q-Sys Core 110f, I'll use one input, and four outputs, and Adam Pelz can do his magic, set individual delays for each set of 3 subwoofers, etc.

On the other hand, the $$ I spend for a Q-Sys Core 110f can just as well be spent to add 8 more channels (more than I would need. HA!) to my Trinnov Altitude 32 ($5100 msrp if I recall correctly for the upgrade). This would give Adam the flexibility to assign bass speaker to speaker or speaker to front or back subs or even left front/right front or back subs (as the back subs are in two rows next to each other I sort of doubt it would make sense to send to only one row)?

On the other hand, having all of the subwoofers function optimized as one gives us similar bass response at each seat. That may well be most important and override other considerations.

Comments, anyone?
Replied in your upgrade thread.

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post #11789 of 12078 Old 05-30-2020, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Oh Oh!

I made the "mistake" of watching another Trinnov Seminar on "speaker declaration, channel mapping and listening modes".

They discussed how bass from any speaker can be "sent" to another speaker or subwoofer. E.G., top front heights to front subwoofers; top rear heights to rear subwoofers.

My latest plan was to use one output of the Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channels) for subwoofers. 6 21" sealed in front under screen, 6 21" sealed in 2 stacks at rear hidden by cabinets/components.
Two sub amps with two amp modules each, each module drives 3 subs. So if I use a Q-Sys Core 110f, I'll use one input, and four outputs, and Adam Pelz can do his magic, set individual delays for each set of 3 subwoofers, etc.

On the other hand, the $$ I spend for a Q-Sys Core 110f can just as well be spent to add 8 more channels (more than I would need. HA!) to my Trinnov Altitude 32 ($5100 msrp if I recall correctly for the upgrade). This would give Adam the flexibility to assign bass speaker to speaker or speaker to front or back subs or even left front/right front or back subs (as the back subs are in two rows next to each other I sort of doubt it would make sense to send to only one row)?

On the other hand, having all of the subwoofers function optimized as one gives us similar bass response at each seat. That may well be most important and override other considerations.

Comments, anyone?

I think Adam would agree that with most of the processors and high speaker counts, some sort of external box/ DSP will be part of the equation. A Core 110f can be had on the used market for a very reasonable price and provides the most flexibility out of anything out there.

A lot of what I gathered from the bass management seminar was it’s flexibility in systems where boundary subs were being utilized throughout the room to create a full range sound field around the listening position. A lot of these would be where a sub was installed in wall for example and the SS1 would redirect the lower octaves to the sub located directly below it to create a full range sound field. The one thing to keep in mind is, in that scenario, those lower frequencies are going to just one specific location and not distributed to all the available subs. While more accurate, it may also create a sense of decreased bass response for movies. YMMV.
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post #11790 of 12078 Old 05-30-2020, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
What he said. I am not always using my Oppo so I bought about $50 USD worth of components including a cheap IR relay, wired them together, trained my Harmony, and now everything works. Discussion here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...-7#post-409837

I soldered the wires but you could twist and wrap or use splice connectors or whatever.

HTH - Don

Don, Thank you so much.. This is brilliant I have just had a read through your post and I will order the parts from amazon today and give that a go. Really impressed. Thank you
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