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post #12031 of 12170 Old 06-25-2020, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
The Trinnov amplifiers are built by ATI but to Trinnov specs including DB-25 connectors as well. Amplitude 8 are NCore 1200 modules (like Theta Digital Dreadnaught D). Amplitude 8m (like ATI 52XNC amps) are NCore 500 modules.

https://www.trinnov.com/amplitude-8/

https://www.trinnov.com/amplitude8m/

When I first met Trinnov's Jon Herron at CEDIA several years ago, he explained how the Trinnov Altitude SSPs and the Trinnov Amplitude amplifiers had a matching I think "gain" inherited from the Pro Audio world which is different than the consumer "gain" of the Theta/ATI amps, as this is speced by Trinnov. Jon explained the benefits of this. But frankly my memory ain't as good as I wish it would and I don't recall the specifics or even if the term "gain" is correct. Certainly someone can chime in here and better explain.

That’s the reason and i had call with jhon he explains a lot for me and the DB-25 which i will use and also i love to support the trinnov name and thanks them for there great product

I remember he spoke about gain match and noise level not sure exactly but it’s lower than the ATI 5xxx series




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post #12032 of 12170 Old 06-25-2020, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by A7mad78 View Post
That’s the reason and i had call with jhon he explains a lot for me and the DB-25 which i will use and also i love to support the trinnov name and thanks them for there great product

I remember he spoke about gain match and noise level not sure exactly but it’s lower than the ATI 5xxx series




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Yes you got it! Now I had originally planned to keep 3 Theta Digital Prometheus monoblocks (XLR analog connectors) (NCore 12oo modules) and also an ATI 526NC 6 channel amplifier (also XLR connectors) (NCore 500 modules) and also add a Trinnov Amplitude 8 (NCore 1200 modules) and a Trinnov Amplitude 8m (NCore 500 modules). Jpn Herron explained that the Trinnov SSPs auto adjust gain for these different amps. However, I recently sold the ATI amp, have up for sale the Prometheus monoblocks, as I decided to "hide" all amplifiers in my component closet in back of the renovated theater, and also this way I get the benefits of the gain match and reduced noise level via the Trinnov specs for the amps as built by ATI!
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post #12033 of 12170 Old 06-25-2020, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Yes you got it! Now I had originally planned to keep 3 Theta Digital Prometheus monoblocks (XLR analog connectors) (NCore 12oo modules) and also an ATI 526NC 6 channel amplifier (also XLR connectors) (NCore 500 modules) and also add a Trinnov Amplitude 8 (NCore 1200 modules) and a Trinnov Amplitude 8m (NCore 500 modules). Jpn Herron explained that the Trinnov SSPs auto adjust gain for these different amps. However, I recently sold the ATI amp, have up for sale the Prometheus monoblocks, as I decided to "hide" all amplifiers in my component closet in back of the renovated theater, and also this way I get the benefits of the gain match and reduced noise level via the Trinnov specs for the amps as built by ATI!

One of the major thing I have plan to renovation my entire theater from ground zero and add another amplitude8 to handle the LCR which still not decide which rote but this just a plan now so i will enjoy my setup and hope the delivery not take much and see the dream theater how it will look now happy with triad gold setup 9.4.6 but the renovation is the next big thing hope it come soon
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post #12034 of 12170 Old 06-25-2020, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by A7mad78 View Post
One of the major thing I have plan to renovation my entire theater from ground zero and add another amplitude8 to handle the LCR which still not decide which rote but this just a plan now so i will enjoy my setup and hope the delivery not take much and see the dream theater how it will look now happy with triad gold setup 9.4.6 but the renovation is the next big thing hope it come soon
I'm sure your theater renovation and upgrade will look and sound very, very nice.

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post #12035 of 12170 Old 06-25-2020, 02:46 PM
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I'm sure your theater renovation and upgrade will look and sound very, very nice.

Thank you steve for ur nice word u too u have the advantage of looong expert in A/V world than me


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post #12036 of 12170 Old 06-25-2020, 02:59 PM
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Thank you steve for ur nice word u too u have the advantage of looong expert in A/V world than me


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I'm afraid I have been "long in the tooth" with an awful lot to learn this past year, things have changed and progressed so darn much. My advise - DO NOT buy a Trinnov SSP (or a Trinnov Amethyst DAC-preamp if only stereo with subwoofers concerns you) - it leads down a dark and costly path!
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post #12037 of 12170 Old 06-25-2020, 08:15 PM
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I managed to catch the Trinnov webinar today. It was a little shorter since the videos wouldn't run. Jon mentioned the gain matching; I submitted a background question but it was not addressed. Optimizing the gain through the signal chain can be a little tricky and also depends upon your speakers, room, and listening level (volume( so just matching preamp to amp does not guarantee the greatest dynamic range. Fortunately that's a fair amount of leeway (margin) in an audio system, signal levels and gains tend to be roughly the same among consumer components, and you have trims to tweak individual channels, so it is not usually a problem.

I had some background banter and then tried to goad Jon into discussing their bass management philosophy but he didn't take the bait. He referred me to the bass management webinar, but I could not find a link to that on their website or YouTube channel with brief search; anybody have that link handy? That is one I missed, and the Optimizer one I really (REALLY) wanted to hear I only caught bits and pieces of (sucks when Work interrupts Life).

My SDP-75 continues to impress. I am considering adding Atmos height speakers (not easy in my room) and continuing to ponder subwoofer setup. Work has been ugly (70-80 hours) he past few weeks so not had much time to listen let alone tweak.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #12038 of 12170 Old 06-25-2020, 10:01 PM
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All of the Trinnov Seminars, within a day or two of being done live, are posted at:

https://www.gotostage.com/channel/c7...27b3426b82e846

The bass management seminar is there - just watched it yesterday!

https://www.gotostage.com/channel/c7...source=CHANNEL
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post #12039 of 12170 Old 06-26-2020, 06:01 AM
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Anyone care to share their Presets strategy ? How many do you create ? Are they 2.0 / 5.1 etc ? Any other differences ? Is there a source or archive of Target Curves which could be used to start the search for the best one for my room ?

~M~

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckie View Post
Anyone care to share their Presets strategy ? How many do you create ? Are they 2.0 / 5.1 etc ? Any other differences ? Is there a source or archive of Target Curves which could be used to start the search for the best one for my room ?

~M~
I had a bunch of presets. Now I mainly use one. For music I have listening mode = Native, and for everything else i have listening mode = upmix on native. For the few times I need Auro3D; I manually select this. I have moved from an extremely complicated setup to a simple one - never looked back
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Yeah , I'm leaning that way too . Its relatively easy to copy a Preset and fool around/experiment with it but I don't want the 32 so be so scary that family will be afraid to use it .Extra Presets can also be archived on USB for any 'scientific' explorations \\
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post #12042 of 12170 Old 06-26-2020, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckie View Post
Anyone care to share their Presets strategy ? How many do you create ? Are they 2.0 / 5.1 etc ? Any other differences ? Is there a source or archive of Target Curves which could be used to start the search for the best one for my room ?

~M~
I use three presets.
1. The target curve+adjustments that I prefer this month
2. A “night mode” , which is the previous with more bass (3db) for listening at about 70db average
3. A preset for experimenting with target curve variations.

I also save previous presets that I have liked in the past, for future reference and comparison.
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post #12043 of 12170 Old 06-26-2020, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Dimifoot View Post
I use three presets.
1. The target curve+adjustments that I prefer this month
2. A “night mode” , which is the previous with more bass (3db) for listening at about 70db average
3. A preset for experimenting with target curve variations.

I also save previous presets that I have liked in the past, for future reference and comparison.

I have two active (music + movies) and another 8 or 12 or 19 “experimental”. That’s what mostly retired people who are tweakers do!


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post #12044 of 12170 Old 06-26-2020, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
I have two active (music + movies) and another 8 or 12 or 19 “experimental”. That’s what mostly retired people who are tweakers do!


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In single row theaters, I generally have 4 or 5 presets configured for clients. Movies, Movies Action, Music, Music Auro3D, and a Night Mode are the most common. If there are multiple rows, I will often have separate presets when there are guests vs private owner only presets.
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I have two active (music + movies) and another 8 or 12 or 19 “experimental”. That’s what mostly retired people who are tweakers do!
This sounds familiar! I have a bunch for different uses and different adjustments. Like a "Disney" preset where I disable top mids, different target curves like a special one for female vocalists or certain music with mid-range tweaks and one that's a vintage quadraphonic surround arrangement. But I rely on 3 main ones for 90% movies & music. The rest are there because...

I'm retired and guilty of tweaking
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post #12046 of 12170 Old 06-27-2020, 07:18 AM
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This sounds familiar! I have a bunch for different uses and different adjustments. Like a "Disney" preset where I disable top mids, different target curves like a special one for female vocalists or certain music with mid-range tweaks and one that's a vintage quadraphonic surround arrangement. But I rely on 3 main ones for 90% movies & music. The rest are there because...

I'm retired and guilty of tweaking
I actually have 3 active presets: Movies, Music (2 channel/surround) and Blu Ray Music Concerts. Apparently those that mix the concerts have no rules for mixing these things and the bass is usually recorded very HOT on many of them.

The problem with having all of these options is keeping it "spouse friendly". I need to add these options to my Control4 menus so that my wife can have access to them.

As Adam noted, when calibrating a room with multiple rows, that must be taken into consideration. I do have one interesting observation: I have maybe calibrated 8 or 9 rooms recently and all but one only had 1 row, but those theaters I see displayed on AVS all seem to have multiple rows.
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post #12047 of 12170 Old 06-27-2020, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
I actually have 3 active presets: Movies, Music (2 channel/surround) and Blu Ray Music Concerts. Apparently those that mix the concerts have no rules for mixing these things and the bass is usually recorded very HOT on many of them.

The problem with having all of these options is keeping it "spouse friendly". I need to add these options to my Control4 menus so that my wife can have access to them.

As Adam noted, when calibrating a room with multiple rows, that must be taken into consideration. I do have one interesting observation: I have maybe calibrated 8 or 9 rooms recently and all but one only had 1 row, but those theaters I see displayed on AVS all seem to have multiple rows.
I only have one row myself; I everything is created for perfection in the center seat. Most of my friends don't care, and can not hear the difference.
I have calibration for each seat with weighting (I still have those presets, but never used).

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post #12048 of 12170 Old 06-27-2020, 12:17 PM
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I actually have 3 active presets: Movies, Music (2 channel/surround) and Blu Ray Music Concerts. Apparently those that mix the concerts have no rules for mixing these things and the bass is usually recorded very HOT on many of them.

The problem with having all of these options is keeping it "spouse friendly". I need to add these options to my Control4 menus so that my wife can have access to them.

As Adam noted, when calibrating a room with multiple rows, that must be taken into consideration. I do have one interesting observation: I have maybe calibrated 8 or 9 rooms recently and all but one only had 1 row, but those theaters I see displayed on AVS all seem to have multiple rows.
I have five presets I actively use:
1) Main 13.4.6 movies preset with my standard target curve (essentially a Harman, with some adjustment for natural speaker rolloff in the high frequencies)
2) 7.1.4 movies preset for crappy Atmos mixes, where I turn off the top middles and have side surrounds copied at a low level into the wides
3) 13.4.6 "Springsteen" music curve - where I did some refinement to even out the honkiness of his vocals
4) 13.4.6 "Shakira" music curve - ditto but tweaked to make her vocals most pleasing
5) 11.4.6 movies preset where Lc/Rc are turned off - used at times for DTS:X Pro's Neural:X upmix

There's also a 11.4.6 curve that Curt Hoyt set up for me back in 2017 to work best with Auro and DSU upmix, based on his ear, before I had Lc/Rc. And I have various BEQ filters I pull into my more movie presets. And I have a variant on #1 that I use when I want to play with some of the Advanced Optimizer settings and want to do an A/B for my intellectual curiosity.

Other presets are more standard ones I have for testing purposes, such as a 3.1 (L/C/R and subs) for getting mic positioning optimized before running more extensive calibrations, and a two channel one that I haven't used in about a year but was "full range" (no subs) for comparative listening.

I haven't gotten around to using this yet, but there's a three CD set I picked up at a used music store that emphasizes vocals, which I might use for tweaking purposes.

From the Amazon.fr listing, translated by Google from French:
"All the variations, intonations, vibrations, quarter-tones, sensations and other scansions that men and women can sing, whisper, phrase ... It's a real world tour of the different paths that the voice can take. Calls, shouts and clamors; voice and breath; spoken, declaimed, sung; colors and stamps; play on harmonics; bumblebee and ostinato ... In a group or alone, of traditional essence or religious repertoire, music is in many cases here directly connected with the environment, whether it is to heal in Madagascar or to rock in Mali. The time of three discs which take the form of an initiation rite. --Jacques Denis"

https://www.discogs.com/Various-Les-...elease/1108677
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post #12049 of 12170 Old 06-28-2020, 01:18 AM
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We´re building home cinemas for our customers and we have different presets for different speaker setups in our showroom.
It´s really great to be able to switch between presets and let the customers listen and decide which setup they prefer best.
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post #12050 of 12170 Old 06-30-2020, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by appelz View Post
In single row theaters, I generally have 4 or 5 presets configured for clients. Movies, Movies Action, Music, Music Auro3D, and a Night Mode are the most common. If there are multiple rows, I will often have separate presets when there are guests vs private owner only presets.
Hey Adam,

Can you contact me regarding calibration?
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post #12051 of 12170 Old 06-30-2020, 11:08 PM
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Same here, measurements have shown that the A16 actually are slightly more noisy compared to A32 (this is due to size of the device; bigger = better ventilation). But I'm unable hear any of them in a quiet room unless I go really close (1-2 feet).

Hence as already stated here; this is not a problem. On my A32 I have to put my ear to the unit to hear it. In really warm environment I can hear it when I move close to it (1-2 feet).
Remarkable. In a quiet room I hear the fan noise of my Altitude32 sitting 2 meters away from it. It’s definitely not loud, but every time I switch it off you can hear the room go really silent. Therefore, if you are less than 3 meters from your Altitude and achieving the lowest noise floor is important to you, I would advice putting it in a cabinet or placing some sound absorptive material around it.
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post #12052 of 12170 Old 07-01-2020, 11:09 AM
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Remarkable. In a quiet room I hear the fan noise of my Altitude32 sitting 2 meters away from it. It’s definitely not loud, but every time I switch it off you can hear the room go really silent. Therefore, if you are less than 3 meters from your Altitude and achieving the lowest noise floor is important to you, I would advice putting it in a cabinet or placing some sound absorptive material around it.
Good advise, I have around 3 meters between MLP and the A32. Of course, the environment is not dead silent - you have ventilation and distant traffic etc. So to be clear, in an ordinary environment you will not hear fan noise from the A32 (even when getting close to it). If you have a very quiet environment it might be a difference between having the A32 turned on vs turned off.

The key takeaway here is that the A32 is more silent regarding fan-noise compared to A16, but both are build to be quiet.

Edit:
Also, the ventilation in the Altitude will be more active when it is located in a warm environment. Room around the Altitude is important to have minimal noise from the unit (this also apply to above the unit; which should have a minimum of 1 rack (or is it 2?) unit clearing).

HT: Trinnov A32 (AL32-1632)/AMP8/8M - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - B&W 802D3, 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, SCMS, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2 - Heimdall2/Frey2 - ISOTEK EVO3 Titan,Sigmas - LG OLED65B7V - GIK ACOUSTICS
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post #12053 of 12170 Old 07-01-2020, 11:49 AM
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Well, when it´s located in a separated rack then noise is not a concern anyway.
MY AL32 is definitely one of the quietest pieces of equipment in my rack
And i´m also pretty sure ventilation will go up when you´re challenging the processor with a high speaker count and lots of filters, etc.
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post #12054 of 12170 Old 07-01-2020, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by hockyAVS View Post
Well, when it´s located in a separated rack then noise is not a concern anyway.
MY AL32 is definitely one of the quietest pieces of equipment in my rack
And i´m also pretty sure ventilation will go up when you´re challenging the processor with a high speaker count and lots of filters, etc.

I added a miniSplit to my equipment room to deal with the heat (room has a western exposure). And equipment noise is not an issue!
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post #12055 of 12170 Old 07-01-2020, 02:54 PM
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When listening natively to 5 channel content (music) through Roon in a 7.x.x setup, would you prefer using the Ls-Rs or the Lrs-Rrs for surrounds through Roon’s advanced settings?

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post #12056 of 12170 Old 07-01-2020, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Dimifoot View Post
When listening natively to 5 channel content (music) through Roon in a 7.x.x setup, would you prefer using the Ls-Rs or the Lrs-Rrs for surrounds through Roon’s advanced settings?
Ls/Rs regardless. If you select 5.1 in Roon this will be done automatically. In my opinion sending to surround rear for 5.1 material in a 7.1 setup is a bug in Roon (not very many releases exist in 7.1 mix; so it is fairly safe to select 5.1 in Roon for the Altitude).

Yes, 5.1 setup using the rear surround speakers exist - but this is not common (it is part of the TrueHD/DD stream containing info which channels should be used).

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post #12057 of 12170 Old 07-01-2020, 03:39 PM
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The issue here is that 5 channel music is mixed with the surround channels at 110 degrees



That's somewhere between surrounds and back surrounds angle in an Atmos setup


My subjective feeling is that in some recordings I prefer using the surrounds and in some the back surrounds.
It varies with genre, and with the recording technique, i.e if the surrounds are used for ambience only or if they are used for distinct sounds/instruments.
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post #12058 of 12170 Old 07-01-2020, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimifoot View Post
The issue here is that 5 channel music is mixed with the surround channels at 110 degrees



That's somewhere between surrounds and back surrounds angle in an Atmos setup


My subjective feeling is that in some recordings I prefer using the surrounds and in some the back surrounds.
It varies with genre, and with the recording technique, i.e if the surrounds are used for ambience only or if they are used for distinct sounds/instruments.
You are actually right; something in between would be perfect. I prefer Ls/Rs because I have full range speakers there.
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post #12059 of 12170 Old 07-01-2020, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimifoot View Post
My subjective feeling is that in some recordings I prefer using the surrounds and in some the back surrounds.
It varies with genre, and with the recording technique, i.e if the surrounds are used for ambience only or if they are used for distinct sounds/instruments.
I tried both (side or rears) and landed on rears, as they are widely positioned (135 deg). I tried using Roon's DSP Mixer to spread the 5.1's surround channels across both pairs, which works fine for 5.1, but messes up 2-ch playback (it's not a stereo signal anymore). I suggested they make the DSP Mixing conditional on source format but that is way way low on the list.

The other solution would be to enable outputting 5.1 content as a 5.1 format (not 5.1 packed into a 7.1 container) so the AV processor could take control of the presentation.

These first world problems are really piling up!
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post #12060 of 12170 Old 07-03-2020, 12:28 AM
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I am curious to hear how you use Auro-Matic in your setups, particularly for music. The info in the Altitude32 manual is fairly basic. I found these settings somewhere (I think it was in the manual for a Yamaha AVR) which is more detailed and there are options not available to us in the Al32.
any thoughts would be appreciated



Auro-3D Settings

Auro-Matic 3D Preset
Selects the Auro-Matic 3D Preset for fine tuning the Auro-3D experience to specific audio material.
Small:
“Small” is ideal for pop and chamber music.
Medium
“Medium” is best used on jazz music or typical movies and TV shows.
Large:
“Large” is ideal for recordings that were recorded in large spaces (e.g. orchestral recording).
Movie:
“Movie” is ideal for experiencing a large cinema effect for watching movies (e.g. action movies with big explosions).
Speech:
“Speech” is ideal for recordings which are mostly dialog (e.g. news broadcast), and that have virtually no inherent spatial information.
You can set this when the sound mode is set to Auro-3D.
This cannot be set if the input signal contains Auro-3D signals containing a Height channel.
Auro-Matic 3D Strength
Changes the level of the up-mixed channels in relation to the original input signal.
The value ranges from 1 (no up-mixing) to 16 (Maximum level, providing maximum effect).
1 - 16 (Default:10)
You can set this when the sound mode is set to Auro-3D.
This cannot be set if the input signal contains Auro-3D signals containing a Height channel.
Auro-3D Mode
Select how to output sound to all speakers when Auro-3D decoding is active.
Channel Expansion (Default):
Incoming Auro-3D content is expanded to additional speakers. All speakers configured for Auro-3D will output sound.


Direct:
Incoming Auro-3D content is sent directly to each corresponding channel. No content is sent to additional speakers.
You can set this when the input signal contains Auro-3D signal and sound mode is set to Auro-3D.
Speaker Select
Makes settings for the speakers outputting sound.
Floor:
Plays back with*out height speakers.
Floor & Height
(Default):
Plays back with height speakers.
This can be set when the sound mode is the original sound mode.
Subwoofer
Turn subwoofer output on and off.
On
(Default):
The sub*woofer is used.
Off:
The sub*woofer is not used.
You can set this when the sound mode is “Direct” or “Stereo” and in the menu “Subwoofer Mode” is set to “LFE+Main”.
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