CEDIA 2014 news (a la $20K forum) - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 146 Old 09-17-2014, 09:14 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ceenhad View Post
I hated all the laser projector demos I saw especially the DPI Highlight on the Stewart booth. So sparkly it was near enough unwatchable for me.
I did not see any sparklies, perhaps you should have redirected those eagle eyes at the Barco 4k projected image, and it's notorious impossibility of resolving true 4k due to lens being so large that it gets excited by the projectors own fan motors if you dont make a special stabilizing mount. Then add to that fact that the optics 90 degree bounce and perpendicularly mounted porthole glass, which looked like an unacceptable 10 millimeters thick, and you get a triple soft image. More attention to detail next time.

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post #32 of 146 Old 09-17-2014, 11:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LJG View Post
I thought Christie Digital was introducing a new line of Home Entertainment Projectors at Cedia?
Next year Lon but they have a lot of catching up....there was a certain Led 4k beauty that I am dropping my girlfriend for.

Pictures and video forthcoming to my blog.
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post #33 of 146 Old 09-18-2014, 06:19 AM
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Damn Peter your the third person to tell me they fell head over heals for the 4K Led. Best in show
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post #34 of 146 Old 09-18-2014, 02:20 PM
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Is this a Christie or the DPI mentioned before? Is this again an OEM, like last years 2K 3DMD, who designed/makes this?
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post #35 of 146 Old 09-18-2014, 05:32 PM
 
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Nec cinema based. there were 2 units one died.Lon, Best In Show? best display since TV was invented. Bestest thing in the known universe, this thing is so good...You catch my drift. It drops the bottom from under the entire projection industry. If they can build them reliably.

Subsequent insider info tells me Blu Laser can achieve r2020 if modulated down, as well as phosphors etc. so it's not out yet. Then also Dolby has something big looming on horizon.

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post #36 of 146 Old 09-19-2014, 09:29 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post
The official Dolby Atmos theater sounded very nice, they were using Triad speakers but it was not the kind of high end HT we have here. They had a flat panel, with a center speaker below screen and tower speakers into the room. They were showing the difference between Atmos enabled and Atmos ceiling speakers. I actually quite liked the Atmos enabled speakers, the pans were less 'jumpy' than with the ceiling speakers and the sound a little more spacious.

I was not impressed with the dolby room or the TRIAD speakers, but I was impressed with how good the reflective technology was.

Do you think in a dedicated space build using reflection and engineering the ceiling for use with such would be better than actual speakers overhead?
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post #37 of 146 Old 09-19-2014, 11:20 AM
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So, NEC did keep pursuing LED projectors, there was the 2000 lumens unit at infocom three? years ago, and Cinemaandy told us that he had seen an NEC xxK lumens LED projector a number of years ago. 3K is not much, but enough for many users. Especially if the LEDs retain their output like the first two generations of high-end HD single chip DLP projectors did.
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post #38 of 146 Old 09-19-2014, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by donaldk View Post
So, NEC did keep pursuing LED projectors, there was the 2000 lumens unit at infocom three? years ago, and Cinemaandy told us that he had seen an NEC xxK lumens LED projector a number of years ago. 3K is not much, but enough for many users. Especially if the LEDs retain their output like the first two generations of high-end HD single chip DLP projectors did.

So 3000 lumens after calibration ?


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post #39 of 146 Old 09-19-2014, 12:19 PM
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Art, callibration to what? This supposedly is a BT2020 capable display, please don't keep throwing this and associated light away, like calibrators are used to. If so use remapping. The cedia trhead here mentions 3K lumens, so that's allI know. You guys go there not me;-). I didn't even go in to town to see the 6P Christie four long days of IBC is enough for me. And the Saturday showing always conflicts with the tradeshow.
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post #40 of 146 Old 09-19-2014, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
This system is the atmos reference at the moment, it blows away every commercial atmos demo including Dolby's own in Burbank.

The all digital chain and amplifiers are suspect for the goodness, but I want to understand how this jbl eq works now. I asked if i could buy system with eq sans speakers they said yes. I was JBL Synthesis customer number 2 in 1991.This signal pack is brilliant.
The JBL demo was by far the best of show to me. On Saturday, I was able to go through some of the rooms a second time (JBL room three times). Definitely my kind of sound, even with the subs a little hot.
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post #41 of 146 Old 09-19-2014, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
Nec cinema based. there were 2 units one died.Lon, Best In Show? best display since TV was invented. Bestest thing in the known universe, this thing is so good...You catch my drift. It drops the bottom from under the entire projection industry. If they can build them reliably.

Subsequent insider info tells me Blu Laser can achieve r2020 if modulated down, as well as phosphors etc. so it's not out yet. Then also Dolby has something big looming on horizon.
I was quite impressed as well. We were the first dealer to put in a PO for the laser variant back at Infocomm, but the LED has me now vacillating between them. The only limitation is the low lumen output for good 3D which matters at that price point. It's a dilemma I haven't decided on just yet.

If the laser could really be modulated down to achieve similar results, that would make it the best of both worlds. Still a big IF until someone tries it I guess. I'm eagerly anticipating the results of that one. But given the 12k lumen starting point, it definitely has room to be dialed down. If we stick with the laser, we will be the first shipment scheduled and have it to play with... see what we can achieve.
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post #42 of 146 Old 09-19-2014, 04:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MovieTime View Post
I was quite impressed as well. We were the first dealer to put in a PO for the laser variant back at Infocomm, but the LED has me now vacillating between them. The only limitation is the low lumen output for good 3D which matters at that price point. It's a dilemma I haven't decided on just yet.
Only with active glasses which is 10% efficient on a 16 foot screen it won't work but with a 33% efficient polarizer, a breeze on a Stewart 5D screen.
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post #43 of 146 Old 09-19-2014, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by donaldk View Post
Art, callibration to what? This supposedly is a BT2020 capable display, please don't keep throwing this and associated light away, like calibrators are used to. If so use remapping. The cedia trhead here mentions 3K lumens, so that's allI know. You guys go there not me;-). I didn't even go in to town to see the 6P Christie four long days of IBC is enough for me. And the Saturday showing always conflicts with the tradeshow.

Not meant to put you on the spot, sorry .
Just too many times I see quotes for lumens then realize that once the device is set up accurately you see 1/3 of this light can't be generated. I get 33fl on the internal patterns on my projector @2.35:1 and 14' width but 25fL set up to display Blu Ray accurately.


I appreciate your posts so ignore me .


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post #44 of 146 Old 09-19-2014, 06:47 PM
 
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More Barco details and cool videos ...

HERE
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post #45 of 146 Old 09-19-2014, 07:29 PM
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Art your posts aren't to be ignored. I have been suggesting remapping for a few years now. Why throw away so much native colurspace and associated brightness.

I have been bothered by this narrowing the colour space melarkie, of calibrators, it is the less elegant approach, but understandable given the lack of control over the content with most off-the-shelf products.

It was one of the main selling points of the only exception I know of, the EE TruVango version of Chi Lin Industries 3LED/single DMD projector platform. The seperate box remapped 709 (Re-)mastered content to take advantage of the projectors' native colourspace and therefor its full brightness.

Remapping to larger colourspace is the way to go. With wide colourspace becoming more readily available, the same is true for content that is wider gamut than the display.

In flatpanel the lightloss is less obvious, but Canon's broadcast LCD monitor received a firmware update, launched at IBC last week and this allows it to remap BT.2020 colourspace from a Canon camera (for instance) to its smaller native gamut, showing the richer deeper colours compared to regular conversion of the content to rec. 709 colourspace. Retaining the full colour in the video material, so not destroying its shelf-life by downconversion for post-production.

Years ago a Philips researcher told me and others that what to do with the mis-match between the company's LCD TVs colour and the Rec. 709 standard, was up to management. Either limit/change the monitors to 709, or to remap 709 colours to the monitors larger native colourspace. They had algorithmes either way. They no longer make TVs so are less restricted to/invested in smaller native colourspaces LOL, and therefor just presented a scheme to encode all visible colours, at IBC. A displaymaker could decide how to remap to suit the characteristics of his display.

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post #46 of 146 Old 09-19-2014, 07:56 PM
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Peter, did Barco invade upon your IP, Barco Prometheus, ahum, lol.

Did Barco commission that video of its CEDIA/Tower pressence? Overhere I have not seen any exhibitors seen doing that for IFA/IBC, they seem to think people will make video's and publishing them anyway. With no money in journalism, I have long suggested going direct, instead of via advertising. Not the managed interview/ad spread combo package, some trades offer, but a way that creates room for journalism. Not sure how exactly, but I am sure there must be a way. For video folks this might be a side-line, at least. The 15 minutes slots of interview and camera, with online video after the show, for big bucks, that some offered at mobile world congress seems to find less takers each year, the rates did go down, so not sure it will work.
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post #47 of 146 Old 09-20-2014, 04:32 AM
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i was going in2 weeks to see the final laser pr. "not any prototype that was showed before" from Barco at themanufacturing side.


main goal forme was to see live in action how the best despeckle on the market looks.


as i can’t livewith any visible speckle it will be a important visit for me.


i hope i cant see it as laser have some advantages i like to have.
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post #48 of 146 Old 09-20-2014, 06:57 AM
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Hi Wolfgang

Have you had an opportunity to see the new nec blue laser phosphorus projectors?
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post #49 of 146 Old 09-21-2014, 10:21 PM
 
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You guys owe me on this JBL presentation.

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post #50 of 146 Old 09-22-2014, 01:34 AM
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Peter How did I miss you at the clocktower? You must have been in and out in a flash!

Neil Davidson - DT Screens
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post #51 of 146 Old 09-22-2014, 06:22 AM
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Art, callibration to what? This supposedly is a BT2020 capable display, please don't keep throwing this and associated light away, like calibrators are used to. If so use remapping. The cedia trhead here mentions 3K lumens, so that's allI know. You guys go there not me;-). I didn't even go in to town to see the 6P Christie four long days of IBC is enough for me. And the Saturday showing always conflicts with the tradeshow.
DonaldK:

What exactly is this remapping, I have not heard of such a calibration.
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post #52 of 146 Old 09-22-2014, 10:47 AM
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You know the colour characteristics of your display (as a manufacturer) and you know the spec of a smaller or wider or non-congruent gamut, then you use an algorithme to move colour values to fit you display's gamut.

Like I said this is not something a third party like a calibrator is designated to do. A current example is the Canon monitor that received a firmware upgrade to take in and display rec. 2020 colour gamut while its native gamut is smaller. It moves colours to lower points in the colour spectrum. It does not cut of colours/spectrum/gamut. Nor require conversion of the original video material to less colour rich 709 video just to be able to output to the monitor. However it is per definition lossy. Moving colour values from a smaller to a larger and fully overlapping gamut is losless.

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/..._4k_display.do
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post #53 of 146 Old 09-28-2014, 10:39 AM
 
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heres the DPI 4k laser and led pics.
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post #54 of 146 Old 09-28-2014, 06:55 PM
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i was going in2 weeks to see the final laser pr. "not any prototype that was showed before" from Barco at themanufacturing side.


main goal forme was to see live in action how the best despeckle on the market looks.


as i can’t livewith any visible speckle it will be a important visit for me.


i hope i cant see it as laser have some advantages i like to have.

Wolfgang, are you refereing to 3P or the 6P? Given you are currently using two 4K Barco's for 3D I would expect your primary interest to be in a 6P unit, but I am not sure if that is production ready yet. Will you also be evaluating the Christie 6P?

That NEC/DPI LED in Peter's post looks quite nice aswell, though not bright enough for your application, might as well stick with the 'little Sony'.
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post #55 of 146 Old 09-29-2014, 09:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ceenhad View Post
Peter How did I miss you at the clocktower? You must have been in and out in a flash!

I had a very bad experience with a new budget airline that did not allow me to get on the plane despite being there 45 minutes early. It cost me a total of $750. And extra nights wasted, so I just had gotten into town at 2, and was pooped.

Sorry I missed you, i did get to eat plenty of appetizers though at the Clock tower.

Best
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post #56 of 146 Old 09-29-2014, 05:57 PM
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Wolfgang, are you refereing to 3P or the 6P? Given you are currently using two 4K Barco's for 3D I would expect your primary interest to be in a 6P unit, but I am not sure if that is production ready yet. Will you also be evaluating the Christie 6P?

That NEC/DPI LED in Peter's post looks quite nice aswell, though not bright enough for your application, might as well stick with the 'little Sony'.
it is the 6 plaser so one laser dlp pr.to do 4k 3d with one pr.and i will see it this thursday.
yes i will see hopefully the christy two dlp 3p set up soon.
as rec 2020 will hit with the new 4k bd i will wait on till there was a support for this.
so no early decision to replace my two 4k barco dlps .
with 2x 32.000lumen my 3d is very bright no hurry for me.
i have today more than what in future even the two 4k laser christy setup can do in the cinemas but with this laser 3d dlps it can be even more bright beside some other advantages that are also nice to have .....
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post #57 of 146 Old 09-29-2014, 06:11 PM
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Indeed these machines have abundance of output, adapted to the application. Lower output applications therefore provide more reserve capacity, and therefore lifetime. Unlike the Hybrid LASER Phosphor projectors, like the BenQ, Panasonic and now the Epson that are sold on their maximum output and lifetime, but maximium output is only half the ladvertised lifetime, and life-time is -50% output. Longer colourstability, less warm-up time are all important pro's of RGB LASER projectors. Figures on the demonstration units have been quoted upto 100,000 lumens.

Patrick was positive about the Christie; http://celluloidjunkie.com/2014/09/1...h-dolby-atmos/.

Personally, I never make it to the evening screenings, Saturday's the show is still in full swing, and Monday night means I have to get back into town just for the movie.
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post #58 of 146 Old 10-11-2014, 06:44 AM
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Subsequent insider info tells me Blu Laser can achieve r2020 if modulated down, as well as phosphors etc. so it's not out yet.
Interesting concept as Rec2020 will most likely be a must have going forward.
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post #59 of 146 Old 10-12-2014, 06:56 AM
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That was a joke (as the only word I've heard is that there is no way to get Atmos / Auro or 16 channels of output into the CB).

Announcement of the CB V?
I'm sure 18 channels will come to the Casablanca. If you look at the new digital out card all the way to the right of this pic http://www.thetadigital.com/images/C...ca_IV_Rear.jpg , you will notice that it has 6 XLRs instead of the 4 of the Xtreme and Premium cards. My expectation is that you will see 6 channel cards replace the 4 channels ones for the dac cards also. You will also notice that there is now a "blank" slot in the Casablanca because of the consolidation done with the IV. That makes it possible to add an entirely new auxiliary processor board for whatever future technologies appear.

Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.

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post #60 of 146 Old 10-12-2014, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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I think it is less about 'could' and more about 'should' it?

I believe the CB is capped at 8 channels for DIRAC - so a new DIRAC set up, additionally, you'd need whole new boards / chips for AURO 3D, ATMOS, DTS UHD when it comes, redesigned DACs for more channels, etc... And likely it will cost far more than the low upgrade cost for DIRAC now.

It's great to squeeze new stuff into old designs but such a significant sea change seems, to me, to require a new model all together given what folks owning such an expensive piece would want sooner than later. Or at least an option to have it even if the waters are murky on the longevity of all these formats. That said, ALL major receivers and ultra high end SSPs are investing in it. The demo clips I've experienced in my own theater with native AURO 3D clips provide proof positive that more resolution (channels) is better. 7.1 just doesn't compare (but how could it in the face of more discrete channels for sound designers to implement in these new multi channel tracks)?

Moreover, by the time the costs of these items come down and are accessible to a company like Theta, it will be many, many years if ever. And upmixing to 11.1, 13.1 or beyond is clearly an upgrade that is here and now similar to how 7.1 upmixing in PL IIx was a clear improvement over 5.1. AN updated CB will likely be many years and the owners will continue to watch technology pass them by. A new model could be out next year possibly and as such would give Theta owners another option and keep the company relevant in the SSP world.

This is a curious time for Theta as I can't imagine any new SSP sales for them given where things are heading. I fail to see the importance of continuing an old design in the wake of so much new.

Many Theta owners here have forgone the DIRAC upgrade, which to me at the low cost price point (and large benefits as mentioned my upgraded Theta owners here), is practically free for its impact on movie sound. I can only assume there is hesitation to continue with the brand if forward thinking movie sound i a priority.

If it happens, and somehow my prediction is incorrect, that's great for you. But the cost is time and patience in a era now of excitement for a significant change in audio at home. I Theta-approved tried and true 'buy an Atmos enabled Onkyo and wait it out' is an option but it turns your supreme piece a liability.


But I will say that now I have a full iRule remote with feedback, I can't believe the flexibility I was missing coming from RTI!

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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