Best Speakers at Cinemacon? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 837 Old 05-05-2015, 03:54 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Cool Best Speakers at Cinemacon, Infocomm, CEDIA 2015, ISE ,2016 and CEDIA 2016

Very good company that takes the Quested clean dynamic House sound to audiophile immersive audio extremes in rooms of every size. The never before heard Phantom imaging acts synergistically to extract maximum multi object spatial and time domain resolution of Atmos and Dts-x object sound in 12-16 channel systems.


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post #2 of 837 Old 05-05-2015, 11:57 AM
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Peter, that was the video I made at ISE, the open booth across the Quested booth. A variety of speaker array, regular speakers, all different shapes driven by amplifier on show.

This company build a special speakers for the Atmos theater in Kerkrade, as with 450 seats it is larger than a normal cinema, so even its longest throw cinema speaker had insufficient reach, therefor two (ribbon) sources were combined in a single speaker box.

Now where did I find the article on this, let me search for it.

I read it elsewhere, but this is the same info, basically: https://audioprointernational.com/ne...s-installation

Quote:
The venue presented a number of challenges, not least of which was its size – with 480 seats, it is one of the largest rooms to be fitted with a Dolby Atmos system so far.



“It’s much larger than a typical cinema auditorium, which made it difficult to work with conventional speakers or amplifiers," Jones explained. "There aren’t really the surround loudspeakers available that could provide the amount and quality of sound we needed from a single speaker. So we asked Alcons if they could work with us in designing a custom system."
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post #3 of 837 Old 05-05-2015, 02:34 PM
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Wow, cool stuff! If I only had the cash
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post #4 of 837 Old 05-05-2015, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Cool




TO ME A POTENTIAL BREAKTROUGH
David R. explains what a morphing lens does, it takes a small linear element and it spreads out the vertical angle a little bit, this allows ALCONS to maintain their dispersion angle spec of flat from 1-22khz

Their cabinets are not too shabby looking either...

Robust Heat Sinking, MLP Targeting (Pitch- yaw -roll) Swiveling HF Mount, Morphing Lenses, Carbon Fiber Shallow depth stacking Woofers, that is sooo the parlance of our F-1 Screening Room Class' Raison D'etre, I need to get my hands on this to ascertain fist impression intuition.


EDITORIAL:

I am by now jaded by the tone of Voice some of these speaker manufacturers make, Everyone wants to have their own amps or blackmail with not selling.

With systems like Qsys revision 12 giving you everything but the kitchen sink, time for vendors to be less gangster-like and give the customer what they want.

Qsys manages more than speakers and amps, IF Qsys is flexible enough that it works without QSC speakers, its only then under consideration...

Who would have thought that in 2015 the transparency expected from the internet is valuing the Moral Capital of companies to those conversely less secretive and Cagey. Screen shakers, laser prices, hdr, internal operational screens that require input of an excel LUT that because of bilingualism issues do not get delivered to the end user, and that have a huge impact on 4k projection resolution (as NOT going from a $4,000 lens to a $40,000 lens);enough of this! Inordinate secrecy will buy you a bad name real quick.... If you are Not Dolby, better be generous with your pitches.... The King can be secretive....anyone else spill the beans or extinctisize....

I was considering Qsys but it requires qsc speakers...


I am sorry but for us to be "F-1 Screening Room Class" the amplification "doit être Américain".

We are going to use the best amplifier in the world for the LCR and it's first widths so D'agostino for 5 main screen channels. We will have Dan design us a series of filter cards bespoke to whatever LCR speaker we find is best ...


and ATI....BGW for all other channels...



These are fed by 2 electrical circuits.
BGW VXI 8.8

Power OutputRMS, 8Ω, 1kHz, 1% THD: 200W x 16
Typical THD<0.05%
Maximum THD1.0%
IMD<0.05%
Slew Rate>60V/μV
Damping Factor>400
Crosstalk>85 dB
DC Offset<10 mV
Recommended load4/8 Ω
Frequency Response+0/- 3dB 10 to 80 kHz
Signal-to-Noise Ratio124 dB referenced to rated output (A-Weighted)

They also have the following nomenclature:
BGW VXI 2.2

Power Output800 W/ch @ 8Ω, 1200 W/ch @ 4Ω, 1600 W/ch @ 2Ω
Typical THD<0.05%
Maximum THD1.0%
IMD<0.05%
Slew Rate60 V/µs
Damping Factor>400:1 (ref. 8Ω)
Crosstalk>85 dB @ 20 Hz - 20 kHz
DC Offset<10 mV (5 mV typical)
Recommended load4/8 Ω
Frequency Response8 Hz - 56 kHz, +0/-3 dB; 20 Hz - 20 kHz, +0,-0.3 dB
Signal-to-Noise Ratio>124 dB referenced to rated output (A-Weighted)


BGW VXI 4.4

Power Output400 W/ch @ 8Ω, 600 W/ch @ 4Ω, 800 W/ch @ 2Ω
Typical THD<0.05%
Maximum THD1.0%
IMD<0.05%
Slew Rate60 V/µs
Damping Factor>400:1 (ref. 8Ω)
Crosstalk>85 dB @ 20 Hz - 20 kHz
DC Offset<10 mV (5 mV typical)
Recommended load4/8 Ω
Frequency Response8 Hz - 56 kHz, +0/-3 dB; 20 Hz - 20 kHz, +0,-0.3 dB
Signal-to-Noise Ratio>124 dB referenced to rated output (A-Weighted)
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post #5 of 837 Old 05-07-2015, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Cool Not all ribbons are created equal....

FED UP WITH THE CRUNCHINESS of even the fanciest MEYER Horns, anyone here hear the latest MEYER signature installation? Taker said the image is awesome but that the sound sucked @Cinerama .

SO..... Ribbons is the latest High Frequency technology buzzword for the CINEMA INDUSTRY. In large rooms the glorious AMT cannot disperse wide enough.

Christie bought a RIBBON SPEAKER company and is now VIVE; Dolby Acquired a RIBBON SPEAKER company and was demonstrating ATMOS with it, I missed the presentation because I was getting a lyfestyle pitch from a Belgian Projector Company, .

From what I hear the big boy companies use the Chinese Ribbon on the left,LATER CLARIFIED; neither company makes it's own ribbon.

I can tell you from the limited exposure at listening, the dutch ribbon on the right sounded much better!! Right Taker?



LEFT: CHINESE RIBBON----------------------------------------------------- RIGHT: DUTCH RIBBON.


DOLBY's COMPANY busted using chinese ribbon in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...

This ball shaped enclosure appeared to be wholly 3D Printed... the honeycomb structure was pliable you would dent it in as you push with fingers.


Latest Dolby Acquisition


They had a very nice looking bookshelf unit at CINEMACON . In a way I am glad we were detained over at Barco speaking high art concepts. Basically Barco builds so much stuff and they are trying to cross repurpose lcd panels for home office high level graphics reporting etc., LIFESTYLE BARCO RESIDENTIAL.



So if what was inside the atmos SLS demo is a bunch of the cheaper chinese ribbons then it will sound like VIVE and in large rooms a torture chamber. SORRY.

We are certainly intrigued by Alcons ZERO FATIGUE DNA SIGNATURE as degustated in the floor booth, although with Dolby Having to spec some Vive in order to get a better price on Christie HDR projectors the RIBBONS going into the DOLBY CINEMA may end up being VIVE for the next 18 months or so.....

Dolby Should compare the speakers, personally I can vouch for the Chinese sounding C+B- and the Dutch sounding A, with better dacs and amps it has amazing potential. Now I know why the Vive ribbon 42 channel demos have sounded mediocre multiple mediocre ribbons intensifies the bad aspects of the sound.
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post #6 of 837 Old 05-07-2015, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Cool Alcons in Aegir? Nope not that I know of...:-)

Taker was Taken by them Ribs....Here are his snapshots.







I have heard a bout using hemp to make a speaker sound better but to use hemp fibers as damping agent in wave-guides that's new to me!
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post #7 of 837 Old 05-07-2015, 08:37 PM
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The Chinese Ribbons are stuck in your gmail? I only see a little box with a red x in it.
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post #8 of 837 Old 05-07-2015, 09:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Cool

hehe thanks.



Here is something similar to Uwe's ceiling mounted (wall ceiling junction) lt-24 but with wide dispersion.


120 degree wide by 15 vert. .

BUT the coolest (Wham! Pow! Sock! Holly Bat Ribbon kicking the crap out of the competition ) part of it even in the little speaker ... Heat Sunk to the outside of the speaker enclosure look carefully for the exposed plate on top of ribbon.

This is the kind of design details that are revealing. Could this be the Quested killer for larger spaces....? I think so, the question that comes to mind is how small can that go? By that I mean the competitive advantage...Stay Tuned.



HERE IS THE WHOLE RANGE OF CINEMA SPEAKERS



Below are two spectral decay (“waterfall”) plots, which show the response behaviour of a loudspeaker. The x-axis shows the frequency response from 1000 to 20.000Hz., the y-axis shows level in dB and the z-axis shows the time in milliseconds (decay).

This is the response of a 2” state-of-the-art” compression driver. It is clearly visible that the initial frequency response changes at around 8kHz. The time-(impulse)response shows that the membrane of the speaker is still generating sound, even after the signal has stopped. This is due to the heavy moving mass of the compression driver, which causes “time-smear” and distortion. A light-weighted 1” compression-driver shows similar behavior, but at a higher resonance frequency.

This is the response of the 6” pro-ribbon driver. The initial response remains flat up to the highest frequencies. The time-(impulse)response shows that the membrane of the speaker stands still very soon after the signal has stopped (“high transient response”). This is due to the light-weight moving mass of the ribbon.

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post #9 of 837 Old 05-07-2015, 10:56 PM
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Peter (@CINERAMAX) - who makes the Dutch one?

Edit: Also, in your opinion, what is the largest room (both depth and width you'd find acceptable for an AMT?

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post #10 of 837 Old 05-08-2015, 01:51 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elill View Post
Peter (@CINERAMAX) - who makes the Dutch one?

Edit: Also, in your opinion, what is the largest room (both depth and width you'd find acceptable for an AMT?
ALCONS AUDIO

ANECDOTAL BUT POIGNANTLY PROPHETIC(?) TRUE TRIVIA:
IF a LT-10 ribbon proto that roger built for Neil D. had not stop working "Raght Bafore" demo-time at factory,
Quested Z's may have ended a hi power ribbon...

For me the jury for the fronts is still out. I know a good ribbon when i hear one. Like Rhaidho uses ribbons and diamond as stiffening element, Alcons uses the best heat sunk units by far and carbon fiber for the sub woofers as stiffening element..



Remember my next Quantum Mega-Dollar paradigm shift step for EUROPA was going to be diamond coated 2x10" per 32 speakers, you see 6.5" diamond coated woofers used as a stiffening agent.....




hey cinemacon has always been the anti-audiophile show, give me some pagu-pagu dacs, some dago amps, and three of those c3 (we correctly claim in our Blog to be up to 25 % sharper optically than Dolby Cinema 4k HDR 2 MILLION Projector) , This could be benchmark setting by any screening venues period.
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post #11 of 837 Old 05-08-2015, 01:58 AM - Thread Starter
 
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the quested z amt from 10 feet to 35 feet long. problem is coverage, not to mention that if it is going to be 90 degree coverage it has to remain like so from 1 to 20kz

It is a matter of angles, when you have such even coverage and very wide it angle starts getting close to optimal for the 5 channels behind screen... give it that dynamic expansion capacity and give it a tesla like torque form the Dagos.....

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post #12 of 837 Old 05-08-2015, 03:36 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elill View Post
Peter (@CINERAMAX) - who makes the Dutch one?
alcons whitepaper



Next week I get someone to give technical lecture on these speakers unique directivity strongpoints...
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post #13 of 837 Old 05-08-2015, 08:46 AM
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How important is dispersion (in the MLP) if all speakers are aimed at the MLP? Loving the ribbons!!

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #14 of 837 Old 05-08-2015, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
How important is dispersion (in the MLP) if all speakers are aimed at the MLP? Loving the ribbons!!

Hi Jeff, It certainly appears to be important to David Rahns (see first video 1:20m) who will be responding to questions in about a week, he torn ligament in back(get well D).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
How important is dispersion (in the MLP) if all speakers are aimed at the MLP? Loving the ribbons!!
There are many schools of thought to balance on this.

Every Dubbing Stage points right towards the console as PROTEUS research has uncovered.

Robert Harley says on toe in:Rule #6 : Toe-in (angling the loudspeakers toward the listener) affects tonal balance, soundstage width, and image focus.

Toe-in is pointing the loudspeakers inward toward the listener rather than facing them straight ahead (see Fig. 3). There are no rules for toe-in; the optimum amount varies greatly with the loudspeaker and the listening room. Some loudspeakers need toe-in; others work best firing straight ahead. Toe-in affects many aspects of the musical presentation, including mid- and high-frequency balance, soundstage focus, sense of spaciousness, and immediacy.

http://thehighfidelityreport.com/extreme-toe-in/

Most loudspeakers sound the brightest directly on-axis (directly in front of the loudspeaker). Toe-in therefore increases the amount of treble heard at the listening seat. An overly bright loudspeaker can often be tamed by pointing the loudspeaker straight ahead. Some models, designed for listening without toe-in, are far too bright on-axis.

A toed-in loudspeaker will present more direct energy to the listener and project less energy into the room, where it might reach the listener only after reflecting from room surfaces. As we’ll see later in this chapter, sound reflected from the sidewalls to the listening positions can degrade sound quality. Toe-in often increases soundstage focus and image specificity. When toed-in, many loudspeakers provide a more focused and sharply delineated soundstage. Images are more clearly defined, compact, and tight, rather than diffuse and lacking a specific spatial position. The optimum toe-in is often a trade-off between too much treble and a strong central image. With lots of toe-in, the soundstage snaps into focus, but the presentation is often too bright. With no toe-in, the treble balance is smoother, but the imaging is more vague.

Toe-in also affects the presentation’s overall spaciousness. No toe-in produces a larger, more billowy, less precise soundstage. Instruments are less clearly delineated, but the presentation is bigger and more expansive. Toeing-in the loudspeakers shrinks the apparent size of the soundstage, but allows more precise image localization. Again, the proper amount of toe-in depends on the loudspeaker, room, and personal preference. There’s no substitute for listening, adjusting toe-in, and listening again.
Identical toe-in for each loudspeaker is vital. This is most easily accomplished by measuring the distances from the rear wall to each of the loudspeaker’s rear edges; these distances will differ according to the degree of toe-in. Repeat this procedure on the other loudspeaker, adjusting its toe-in so that the distances match those of the first loudspeaker. Another way to ensure identical toe-in is to sit in the listening seat and look at the loudspeakers’ inside edges. You should see the same amount of each loudspeaker cabinet’s inner side panel. Identical toe-in is essential to soundstaging because the speaker’s frequency response at the listening position changes with toe-in, and hearing the identical frequency response from each speaker is an important contributor to precise image placement within the soundstage.

Keep in mind that all loudspeaker placement variations are interactive with one another, particularly toe-in and the distance between loudspeakers. For example, a wide soundstage can be achieved with narrow placement but no toe-in, or wide placement with extreme toe-in.


For the Home Atmos folks (Brett Crockett and his lab rats ) the lt-24 like Alcons at 120 degree presents a better behind the screen speaker, they do not want any horizontal d'appolitoness going on as SPEAKING for the behind the screen channels 5 mains and 2-3 heights (they want even coverage).

According to Roger Quested when you aim the speakers all to the MLP you are distorting the house imaging of the speaker ( I can't remember his argument) but he is against pointing speakers in a simple stereo pair.

Tony Grimani is against spewing sound into parts of the cinema that have no LISTENers, like on my first Draft of Takers Aegir, the front side surrounds were pointing at no one. That was changed...



Certainly that David's point of not having variable dispersion angles across frequencies, sounds like a must have.





LET's LEARN about their line array elements, seems some of these elements, with a plain cabinet devoid of rigging hardware may serve our surround needs look at the dispersion on these... ideal to up the ante on the horizontal LT-24?



With their morphing elements speakers could be used to hit the mlp with the right amount of direct to reflected energy...



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post #16 of 837 Old 05-08-2015, 11:13 AM
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Peter don't rub those Canadians the wrong way, lol.
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post #17 of 837 Old 05-08-2015, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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SO TRUE. Lest my clients be blacklisted from obtaining HDR Projectors....

I still have not heard confirmation, sounds too good to be true. Waiting to hear from George Walter....

But really why is everyone using the chinese ribbon? In cinemacon you can cross hall and listen to one and then listen to another, the difference is one is clearly competent the other not so.

Well certainly Christie is not using the same as SLS is.



But the ribbon element seems equally as unsubstantially engineered, there is neither heat sink nor airflow funneling elements as in the China Ribbon hence(?) the really bad demoes at last year ATMOS VIVE CINEMACON and unremarkable venue installations amc 24 aventura fl.

All the new Dolby Cinema Large Venues use Christie.This is also the exclusive size of Venues to be fitted with DOLBY VISION 2,000,000-1 projectors (for commercial cinemas-maybe there is a loophole in that restriction TBC).




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post #18 of 837 Old 05-08-2015, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
Taker was Taken by them Ribs....Here are his snapshots.





These were nice
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post #19 of 837 Old 05-09-2015, 09:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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There are benefits for the consumer that these products are getting competitive pressure from cinema speakers. PRICE. I can not publish but can email.peter at cineramax.

PICS FROM LINE ARRAY WHITE P





[Is it me? Im visualizing ultracustom ray traced system with bespoke directivity morphers on all 30 speakers aimed at the entire listening area but just so, no sound aimed outside say the 12 seats.

When stacking Ribbons...
in order to get a smooth transition between the individual cabinets/ wavefronts.
In order to control this curving, Alcons developed the “Morpher” waveguide; A short waveguide which forms a slightly curved isophasic wavefront, without sacrificing sound quality.

Remarkable detail of the “Morpher” wave-guide of the RBN’s, is the unique “HempHorn™”; This wave-guide is made of a new combination of composite materials with natural hemp fiber structures. Contrary to the traditional glass fiber horns, the HempHorn™ features the same stiffness as conventional (glass fiber) horns, but is characterized with a much higher internal damping (at same weight). This results in a so-called “inaudible” waveguide, without the well-known “harsh horn sound”.

HORN MLSSA WATERFALL (nasty)


PRO-RIBBON CLEAN MLSSA WATERFALL




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post #20 of 837 Old 05-10-2015, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
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Taker was Taken by them Ribs....Here are his snapshots.





what are price range for alcons?
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post #21 of 837 Old 05-10-2015, 08:41 AM
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Christie bought bgcorp also known as Bohlander Graebner. This company was started by the gentlemen by the same name before they moved to Wisdom Audio. Bgcorp is an American company with lots of patents on planar magnetic drivers (PMD). PMDs are a very light plastic diaphragm(mylar/kaldex) with a conductive material printed on as a voice coil sandwiched between powerful magnets. There is no need for heatsinking unless stuck in a (too) small enclousure.

You guys should really take the technical stuff to the diy speaker section or diyaudio, as there obviously is little technical knowledge in this sub forum, me included.
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post #22 of 837 Old 05-10-2015, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie2075 View Post
what are price range for alcons?
In your pic list is...(cinema equipment has low margins I don't know that part)

Their 4 channel 750 aes in dsp amp is expensive 7,800.Not sutable for 16-32 channels with addtional lcr bi or tri amping.

Lab Gruppen PLS Based? Think so....

Better of using a datasat for x-over via extra 8 output card, and use bgw for the surrounds or a DOLBY CP850 that does both home and cinema atmos blulink to JBL synthesis 8x300 ($5,500) and 4x600($4,500) dsp for xover limiter whatever amps

5,800 for top biamp
2,717 for middle
1,937 with the 8 inch woofer for bottom



these CRMSMKII 3887 bi and head for surround is 2067

Prices for speakers seem cheap to me....
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post #23 of 837 Old 05-10-2015, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeno View Post
Christie bought bgcorp also known as Bohlander Graebner. This company was started by the gentlemen by the same name before they moved to Wisdom Audio. Bgcorp is an American company with lots of patents on planar magnetic drivers (PMD). PMDs are a very light plastic diaphragm(mylar/kaldex) with a conductive material printed on as a voice coil sandwiched between powerful magnets. There is no need for heatsinking unless stuck in a (too) small enclousure.

You guys should really take the technical stuff to the diy speaker section or diyaudio, as there obviously is little technical knowledge in this sub forum, me included.
The wisdoms sound better than the Vive, they breakup in the cinemas and distort.

I will come over there and check and stand corrected.

Reason I like these and not the others are that they sound like the quested very very loud and very very clear, non fatiguing even over extended periods of time....



The Morphing lens seems like a great idea and looks cool as heck. I envision taylor fitting angles to hit just the rows of seat.

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post #24 of 837 Old 05-10-2015, 09:31 AM
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Alcons looks like the real deal. Would love to listen to them some day. I think their main selling point is the horizontal pattern control all the way up to 20 kHz if they can do that without any fatigue.
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post #25 of 837 Old 05-10-2015, 09:34 PM
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I'd love to get my hands on some of those Alcons tweeters and wave guides.....

Peter the Greek

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"what is worth knowing is difficult to learn"
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post #26 of 837 Old 05-11-2015, 01:32 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Your answers may get prayered soon...

Someone has to put together a Destination Location Lab where a 32 speaker Atmos cinema (by the way there will be announcements soon to those wanting to get cinema content at home , with incredible color and industry leading sharpness) can be compared to the same movie in Home Atmos. But the system has to offer or top Quested class performance, we are currently doing maximum due diligence to bring the very best in audio and video "F-1 screening room class performance" to as many World-wide Home Enthusiasts and CEDIA dealers as possible.

With DCI content you certainly can get access to over 250 atmos movies many in 4k, so if you are planning to upgrade or build the best home theater you may actually be as far as possible from achieving best picture and sound. Why?

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post #27 of 837 Old 05-12-2015, 10:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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On Canga's Gravity Flies thread our esteemed Dr. analyst was kind enough to opine on ribbons. For a Purist audiophile HT enthusiast who has his speakers and amps deployed across the front of the room dialed in, for him to opine on a speaker uncovered in a Cinema Convention is very comforting, equally was his answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Hi Peter, trying to get me in trouble with the "crowd" by opiniating which speaker technology is better? Bad boy! I share your excitement with ribbon and its sonic quality over compression driver and also AMT (a bit strident) - strictly personal preference, no flame please guys :-). Some of the most famous audiophile speakers of all times are "ribbon based": all Magneplanar's, all Apogees, and of course The Absolute Sound/Harry Pearson's reference, Infinity IRS V tower behemoth. (Infinity IRS is one of the speakers that got me started as an audiophile 20 years ago btw - playing Cannonball Adderly and Miles Davis's "Autumn Leaves" at Stereophile LA audio show.) Another famous speaker, Aerial 20T, is similar: ribbon tweeter, conventional mid and bass. So yes, ribbons are 100% audiophile approved LOL. http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...s-of-all-time/

I would add only that, **in general** :-) for either ribbon/AMT based speakers, I probably would prefer a three way design over 2 way, meaning the ribbon/AMT only takes care of the treble, the rest - midrange and bass - is done with conventional drivers. Two way designs (ribbon/AMT with a largish 10 inch woofer for example) tend to sound to me like there is a discontinuity between high and low frequency (the infamous hole in the middle), regardless of designers.

With respect to immersive sound, the problem with these drivers is not horizontal dispersion, but vertical dispersion (limited). Limited vertical dispersion could be good or bad depending on what you are using the speakers for. As main speakers it could be considered a plus (less reflection from ceiling and floor), but if you are to use it for surround speakers, I would most definitely look for a design where the ribbon could be "aim-able" or at least mounted on an angled baffle so it could be pointed in general direction of the hot seat. All IMHO of course.
Also Noah our esteemed Physicist had this to say about dispersion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Those Alcons are interesting and I like ribbons but this is an issue.

Even for the mains, limited vertical dispersion means uneven power response, though perhaps on balance not a showstopper.
We are looking forward to hear from Alcons' USA's Dave and Dr. Alcons himself Tom (the scientist behind the entire line and owner), to enlighten us as they seem to have pushed the envelop of ribbon dispersion and high power with claims of Low Fatigue after many listening hours, I thought that had been my discovery, which we later got confirmed by Jeff's Installation in Detroit, and Uwe's Triton in the Rhineland; Patrick the German Video Blogger of everything high-end home cinema jokes in the video segment when they are about to cover Uwe's cinema touchscreen remote (he says let's hear those famous 50,000 watts of power ) when he gave Curt and I credit for our remote participation. He also referred to me as EVANGELIST , I take it in great fashion, but Evangelists just read from books and rely on people's faith, I question generally accepted scientific knowledge and for a few brief 4 years went on the research quest of the century to Develop the F-1 DCI Residential Screening Room class thanks to the generous sponsorship of clients like Spanish Broadcasting Systems, Soho House, and my two patrons Ugo and Vlad. This Cinemacon Laser and immersive audio tour-de-force juggernaut was rewarding with the realization that a great system can be built at home THIS YEAR, but only after having questioned everything and through the assistance from you guys which are the best sounding board; thanks Dr.Cannga and Dr.Noah!

The Alcons line seems replete with three way ribbon systems to potentially evade the hole in the middle Cannga generally admonishes as a possible pitfall from Audiophile realm observations, also they actually have specs and numbers ( as opposed to other companies that when you ask about dispersion angle they answer Honey for the bears", and the professional Alcons line seems to have compact loudspeakers with very interesting vari-lens WIDE DISPERSION windows, I am sure a 90 x 40 dispersion is probably ideal for home cinema (Noah?) and that is exactly were a lot of their models are, but low profile H mount ceiling and wall hugging v mount speakers(exactly like in Uwe's triton with the lt-24 orientaion variants) with dispersions of 120 by 30 and 90x30 and 60 by 30 could be invaluable in achieving my new goal, for homes and for dubbing stages alike. I have concluded that even though every single atmos dubbing stage has all the speakers aimed at the center of the Neve or Harris mix console, that that too is bad practice in terms of not being a reasonable facsimile of the movie theaters where these 64 channel soundtracks will be played.

So i give you then my new best practices theory, conceived only after our findings on variable angle ribbons (with flat 1-21 on a 90 degree angular freq. response) and (James Bond electric guitar theme please) the capability of louvered lens morphers to take ribbons beyond their conventional dispersion angles.MY GOAL bespoke to the entire 12-45 seat kill zone instead of one seat.



So armed with my latest 4 month study on Production dubbing stages best practices, which basically make the center of the console the kill zone for all 32 loudspeakers in the soundstage I propose to everyone the new maxim the "rectangle within the rectangle" theory of screening room dispersion and audience targeting design. Please contribute to it's development with your comments and reservations.

Rectangle within the Rectangle diagram to be sketched... Let's use the first shop drawings for Takers' aegir as an example....
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post #28 of 837 Old 06-18-2015, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
On Canga's Gravity Flies thread our esteemed Dr. analyst was kind enough to opine on ribbons. For a Purist audiophile HT enthusiast who has his speakers and amps deployed across the front of the room dialed in, for him to opine on a speaker uncovered in a Cinema Convention is very comforting, equally was his answer.



Also Noah our esteemed Physicist had this to say about dispersion...



We are looking forward to hear from Alcons' USA's Dave and Dr. Alcons himself Tom (the scientist behind the entire line and owner), to enlighten us as they seem to have pushed the envelop of ribbon dispersion and high power with claims of Low Fatigue after many listening hours, I thought that had been my discovery, which we later got confirmed by Jeff's Installation in Detroit, and Uwe's Triton in the Rhineland; Patrick the German Video Blogger of everything high-end home cinema jokes in the video segment when they are about to cover Uwe's cinema touchscreen remote (he says let's hear those famous 50,000 watts of power ) when he gave Curt and I credit for our remote participation. He also referred to me as EVANGELIST , I take it in great fashion, but Evangelists just read from books and rely on people's faith, I question generally accepted scientific knowledge and for a few brief 4 years went on the research quest of the century to Develop the F-1 DCI Residential Screening Room class thanks to the generous sponsorship of clients like Spanish Broadcasting Systems, Soho House, and my two patrons Ugo and Vlad. This Cinemacon Laser and immersive audio tour-de-force juggernaut was rewarding with the realization that a great system can be built at home THIS YEAR, but only after having questioned everything and through the assistance from you guys which are the best sounding board; thanks Dr.Cannga and Dr.Noah!

The Alcons line seems replete with three way ribbon systems to potentially evade the hole in the middle Cannga generally admonishes as a possible pitfall from Audiophile realm observations, also they actually have specs and numbers ( as opposed to other companies that when you ask about dispersion angle they answer Honey for the bears", and the professional Alcons line seems to have compact loudspeakers with very interesting vari-lens WIDE DISPERSION windows, I am sure a 90 x 40 dispersion is probably ideal for home cinema (Noah?) and that is exactly were a lot of their models are, but low profile H mount ceiling and wall hugging v mount speakers(exactly like in Uwe's triton with the lt-24 orientaion variants) with dispersions of 120 by 30 and 90x30 and 60 by 30 could be invaluable in achieving my new goal, for homes and for dubbing stages alike. I have concluded that even though every single atmos dubbing stage has all the speakers aimed at the center of the Neve or Harris mix console, that that too is bad practice in terms of not being a reasonable facsimile of the movie theaters where these 64 channel soundtracks will be played.

So i give you then my new best practices theory, conceived only after our findings on variable angle ribbons (with flat 1-21 on a 90 degree angular freq. response) and (James Bond electric guitar theme please) the capability of louvered lens morphers to take ribbons beyond their conventional dispersion angles.MY GOAL bespoke to the entire 12-45 seat kill zone instead of one seat.



So armed with my latest 4 month study on Production dubbing stages best practices, which basically make the center of the console the kill zone for all 32 loudspeakers in the soundstage I propose to everyone the new maxim the "rectangle within the rectangle" theory of screening room dispersion and audience targeting design. Please contribute to it's development with your comments and reservations.

Rectangle within the Rectangle diagram to be sketched... Let's use the first shop drawings for Takers' aegir as an example....
I really enjoyed listen to these at infocomm. Can't wait to hear them in a theater setting.
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post #29 of 837 Old 06-18-2015, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi Brad thanks for spreading the love I'm actually on my way there to listen to 7.2 with smaller dual subs but this time I'm wearing a linen shirt shorts and sandals. Must be 110f in there ( away from the spotlights).

Will report!

Best!
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post #30 of 837 Old 06-18-2015, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
Hi Brad thanks for spreading the love I'm actually on my way there to listen to 7.2 with smaller dual subs but this time I'm wearing a linen shirt shorts and sandals. Must be 110f in there ( away from the spotlights).

Will report!

Best!
Are they running them analog through the Datasat?
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