NAIAD first all Quested Z series (2016 Range) & 5Th of 14 courses in Neptune 's Menu - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 33Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 153 Old 09-17-2015, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,607
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2273 Post(s)
Liked: 1292
Send a message via Skype™ to CINERAMAX
Cool NAIAD the 2nd (TRITON 1st) all Quested Z 17.3.10 w Prometheus PJ and Trinnov Altitude






extra extra NEW Digital Amp option is a 4 x 1800


NAIAD This is the latest and FINAL Design bringing to the table our cumulative knowledge of the channel sufficient High Dynamics Low Fatigue deployments at Vlad's, Uwe's, Jeff's, Brandon and Murat's. With key intel derived out of extensive meetings with the head of Atmos, the top Barco Engineers, the 4 day Trinnov Class and above all our Immersion 2025 experiments at CEDIA where several of us agreed on what the definition of channel sufficiency encompasses, in relation to audience size and room size Did you know that the smaller the room with a small group seating more speakers are needed?. Also the completely fatiguing design work of LOGE due to it's complete new workflow that starts with exact trigonometry and then ray traces the speakers dispersion lens also contributed to it , although naiad follows My instinctual speaker layout based on the above and then quickly sketched in photoshop, a much more efficient approach than having to deal with a complete primadonna architect BIM coordination's draftsman.

In the past I would sketch in photoshop like this and give general dimension guidelines, Brads idea of creating the perfect room win trigonometry, with lensing coverage is closer to that of designiing a space shuttle, surely one of my most bitter and unpleasant experiences, THE PROCESS OVER THESE 3 LAST MONTHS. One is an alcons all digital wide controlled directivity, positioned to spec, using advanced trigonometry and Ray traced for verification of the angles, this one however if you want to call it underdog, then never underestimate the underdog, because it positions the eight quested spakers at the right positions where they suffer from little to no negatives, the positioning is CRUCIAL this is MY Latest TACK INTO THE WIND to challenge every preconceived notion in IMMERSIVE AUDIO.

So NAIAD and LOGE will be come 2018 the 2 best home theaters in the USA. Making America Great One Home Cinema at a Time! I am more excited about this because it is designed instinctively and not with slide ruler. Will Quested match or surpass Alcons with these two systems barely within an hour of each other? With modest but correct room treatments this system has a great chance to beat the Vicoustics designed room. Just have to give walter a small budget and force him to work it's magic.




So here in one night I laid out a system that instinctively to me should sound way better because it concentrates the speaker topology WHERE IT COUNTS, ask Mike Miles, Jeff, Jon, Brandon, and even Brad what was the money seat in my last cedia IMMERSION 2025 extravaganza. It was missing 4 channels (NOT SO HERE).


room 18 by 12 by 30, separate equipment room in back.

17.3.10
Subs seaton F2 (2 masters 2 slaves.

Speakers Quested Z-series with new Zky super Atmos top channels (with 12' coaxial and AMT)

Projector Barco Prometheus with AMG Performance Package

3D processor: Altitude 32
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	TRITON-SCREEN-CHANS-3.jpg
Views:	959
Size:	456.8 KB
ID:	946762   Click image for larger version

Name:	Triton-seats-7.jpg
Views:	1455
Size:	529.7 KB
ID:	946770   Click image for larger version

Name:	TRITON-Z-24V.jpg
Views:	2863
Size:	570.5 KB
ID:	946786   Click image for larger version

Name:	triton-Z-FRONTS.jpg
Views:	750
Size:	325.5 KB
ID:	946794   Click image for larger version

Name:	TGRITON-ALTITUDE-32.jpg
Views:	301
Size:	545.3 KB
ID:	946810  

Click image for larger version

Name:	TRITON-SIDES-AND-SURROUNDS-LEFT.jpg
Views:	1421
Size:	543.1 KB
ID:	946818   Click image for larger version

Name:	triton--FRONT-HEIGHTS.jpg
Views:	1308
Size:	622.5 KB
ID:	946826   Click image for larger version

Name:	TRITON-SCREEN-CHAN1.jpg
Views:	293
Size:	389.2 KB
ID:	946834   Click image for larger version

Name:	Triton-VSIDE-REARS.jpg
Views:	265
Size:	516.7 KB
ID:	946850   Click image for larger version

Name:	TRITON-MLP-SURROUNDS-LEFT.jpg
Views:	913
Size:	875.9 KB
ID:	946858  

Click image for larger version

Name:	TRITON-FRONT-Z'S-2.jpg
Views:	256
Size:	263.6 KB
ID:	946866   Click image for larger version

Name:	tRITON-ROOM-Z-24S.jpg
Views:	243
Size:	564.0 KB
ID:	946874   Click image for larger version

Name:	Triton-surround-Amp-Rack.jpg
Views:	280
Size:	442.1 KB
ID:	946882   Click image for larger version

Name:	TRITON-ROOM-CEILING.jpg
Views:	1896
Size:	564.0 KB
ID:	946890   Click image for larger version

Name:	1-z16.jpg
Views:	1203
Size:	224.9 KB
ID:	946898  

Click image for larger version

Name:	1-z8.jpg
Views:	343
Size:	284.9 KB
ID:	946906   Click image for larger version

Name:	front stage side elevation closeup.jpg
Views:	699
Size:	79.7 KB
ID:	1902153   Click image for larger version

Name:	naiad plf.jpg
Views:	398
Size:	530.6 KB
ID:	1902169   Click image for larger version

Name:	Kong si.jpg
Views:	795
Size:	573.8 KB
ID:	1902281   Click image for larger version

Name:	Naiad Elevation FULLY IMMERSIVE 1_19.jpg
Views:	833
Size:	76.0 KB
ID:	1904889  

Click image for larger version

Name:	NAIAD Z8s in back to clear seat backs.jpg
Views:	219
Size:	79.0 KB
ID:	1916657   Click image for larger version

Name:	QUESTED Z-4 X 1800 DIGITAL AMP.jpg
Views:	626
Size:	154.2 KB
ID:	1916873  
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Quested Z8 Data Sheet.pdf (149.5 KB, 194 views)
File Type: pdf Quested Z16 Data Sheet (1).pdf (156.2 KB, 167 views)
Reddig likes this.

Last edited by CINERAMAX; 03-03-2017 at 12:12 PM.
CINERAMAX is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 153 Old 09-17-2015, 10:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,607
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2273 Post(s)
Liked: 1292
Send a message via Skype™ to CINERAMAX
Post z series Dimensions in Imperial scale

Z -16 dimensions
1’ 3/4” deep
1’ 7 1/8” wide
2’ 1/8” high

Z-8 dimensions
7 11/16” deep
1’ 5/16” wide
1’ 4 15/16”High

Last edited by CINERAMAX; 09-18-2015 at 06:16 PM.
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #3 of 153 Old 09-18-2015, 01:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,607
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2273 Post(s)
Liked: 1292
Send a message via Skype™ to CINERAMAX
The Coolest Looking Vicoustic panels - Ugly crap jetissoned out of PDF

...
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Cineramax Vicoustic Favs.pdf (694.1 KB, 198 views)
CINERAMAX is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 153 Old 09-18-2015, 05:13 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
thebland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Detroit, Michigan USA
Posts: 26,689
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2519 Post(s)
Liked: 1748
How loud will these new Z series play? What drivers and rated sensitivity?

What a great, low profile option for adding speakers. You could add lots of height ls with minimal esthetic impact.

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
thebland is online now  
post #5 of 153 Old 09-18-2015, 11:19 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
donaldk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,319
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 706 Post(s)
Liked: 219
Peter, it dazzles me how many speakers there are, just in this thread alone. Of course the Alcons are top notch, but I am sure you can match its performance with other equipment if that is what the room requires. Hey Dolby replaced the Alcons Atmos set-up with Dolby Cinema in Hilversum. So if they can...
donaldk is offline  
post #6 of 153 Old 01-14-2017, 03:54 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 171
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 33
I have no idea whats is being explained here Peter??. Im curious does your client not mind about you posting private projects online in details? Even though i dont understand about 80% of it all the picture do help give a greater sense of understanding.
Phantomaudio is offline  
post #7 of 153 Old 01-14-2017, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,607
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2273 Post(s)
Liked: 1292
Send a message via Skype™ to CINERAMAX
Cool

A prospective Moon client understands that this is bigger than him or I, we are pushing mankind forward and thus there is a certain balance of what gets discussed or divulged with what does not, but yes no publishing or posting rights and client can basically take a hike, like I told Michael Jordans assistant after having designed the cinema for a fee. i refered them to a multi-room Crestron and plasma hanger to do the job with a 15 minute service call guarantee, insane.. I MERELY WALKED ON To London, Ibiza, and Moscow.

You can see that all the ones that have systems here in the forum ( Uwe, Jeff, Brandon, Murat and Brad) they have no problem with show and tell...

What a better way to serve future generations?

The spirit of the saying "Noblesse Obligue" fulfilled, where it counts to us..

Plus i get to pour my soul into these, as you can probably tell, so if the tree falls in the forrest, I make sure it is noticed at least here.

Regarding my style, I am not the product of any national school program from any civililzed country i am Jesuit schooled, that's all they breed Independent thinking, idealist, Open Minded, practical Revolutionaries -SEE MY ANAGRAM- (Fidel was JE too) with a conscience that are comfortable at speaking truth to power, a badge I proudly carry for this country. I come from a loving talented keyboardist mother and a brutal Industrial Engineer who took me to factories and trained me on the installations of "James Bond Set"-Like Stainless Steel massive production lines for fortune 50 Industrials (That did not have to repatriate any taxes back to US the more Ernst Stavro Blofeld-Like the Plant Installation was ), just where i lost my fear of hanging anything from a high ceiling no matter how large and complex.


So that might explain my unvonventionality, passion for movies and music with an eye for sleek engineering.. If i am going to post I have no intention to post a boring lecture, I find it revealing always coming from the back stories into the main line of the post. I try be pancultural and playing with ideas, It must feel like having fun (the sharing) lest I fall asleep, particularly exciting even taking extreme chances with the delivery like with the creation of Gangsta "C"'s G-Cinema Glossary- "Baller Bling Kit Stash"= Class A system rack closet! It's crazy I know, but there is divine inspiration there somewhere. I am bringing Gangsta C's Movie Theater IMMERSION FOR DUMMIES @home to NAB Future of cinema conference to give copy to Star Wars Producer, he kinda like how I roll.

I often get backlashes too, even got unfriended by Wolfgang and others because among three things that I told him to get AMG class with his projector I shared a Gangsta C Xmas card that he found offensive.

deleted but reposted by Jeff,
That is why by showing the execution of these one of a kind systems in real life i do try balance the nebulosity of my prose with solid images.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	GC+DJ.jpg
Views:	904
Size:	245.1 KB
ID:	1895705  

Last edited by CINERAMAX; 01-19-2017 at 10:03 PM.
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #8 of 153 Old 01-15-2017, 02:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,607
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2273 Post(s)
Liked: 1292
Send a message via Skype™ to CINERAMAX
You can't let the trusses fall at random either they have to be so as to not interfere with the 6 tops, the trusses have to be bulit around the Zky's.

CINERAMAX is offline  
post #9 of 153 Old 01-15-2017, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,607
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2273 Post(s)
Liked: 1292
Send a message via Skype™ to CINERAMAX
We are getting a budget this week, I can Get Brain to design the masking system for the v6 xl, this is what i know from Jon as of right now.

Hi Peter

Yes, 3m height is almost 10 feet, still not sufficient for commercial cinema, but for most private rooms, even for your exclusive clientele, as well as smaller screening rooms - it will hopefully suffice…

Some challenges are still not resolved in terms of costs / price though, transporting the larger tubes is one major one I would need to figure out, for example… I am discussing this with AVS right now, and pending the report on quality on my new production they will consider ordering more feasible quantities via ocean for stock and thus reduce shipping cost per unit.

I will make out three sizes by the way;

LARGE: 3x2m
X LARGE: 5,5x2,3m
XX LARGE: 7,5x3m

The “X LARGE” size if more feasible in terms of shipping one-by-one, while the “XX LARGE” requires bulk shipping via ocean from our warehouse here in Norway to the US to obtain a feasible shipping cost.

We are getting an extra large maximum screen size for that room with the superlative v6 xxl. the aspect ratio is 1.875 a wonderful aspect ratio, the 1.77 gets clipped, the 2.35 can be zoomed with oppo to fill thge height, or a bottom up mask can show the full scope all the way to ultrapanavision 2.77 ar. Hateful 8 and ben hur.

so the image area when open is Width 17' 2.5" & Height 9'-2.25".

Last edited by CINERAMAX; 01-15-2017 at 12:04 PM.
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #10 of 153 Old 01-15-2017, 12:34 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
thebland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Detroit, Michigan USA
Posts: 26,689
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2519 Post(s)
Liked: 1748
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post


The events depicted in that holiday card are perfectly harmless and from a pg rated disco but if anyone is to be blamed do Jeff. Blame him, it's a funny story i'll share another day. yOU ALL BETTER BE SITTING DOWN, FUNNY.
Ha!! Peter, this was the highlight of the trip - thanks for the great cigar!!
What a hedonistic night!!

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
thebland is online now  
post #11 of 153 Old 01-15-2017, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,607
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2273 Post(s)
Liked: 1292
Send a message via Skype™ to CINERAMAX
I found this older post from the good Doctor:

While not LT speakers, they are Quested...


I got from Cineramax a set of Zspeakers for 7.2 set up with a DATASAT. I was working off of JTR speakers before. I also used DATASAT and did basic Dirac setup. The difference to me is amazing with Quested speakers/their amps. The sound appears much more refined and crisp/sharp. No matter how loud I put it, it keeps that refinement. There are sounds I don't remember hearing in the past when movies watched. The set up and installation was a breeze. The instructions amazing and even Roger from Quested emailed me personally when I had questions, so really great transactions and set up and completely worth it my opinion. I cannot see anything more impressive without completely new technology.


And also on a side note. The DATASAT is with ATMOS, I hooked on some older but still good JTR for the 4 heights and in my opinion, ATMOS makes a huge difference when done correctly.


Thanks Pete and cant wait to keep adding more in the future.


I am emailing him back and forth letting him know that the moment seems oportune to cut a killer deal. Cause the president is not the only great dealmaker in America; just kidding However.....

The pound always hovers at 160, check this out! Thank you BREXIT!!!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	pretty close to bottom.JPG
Views:	102
Size:	65.1 KB
ID:	1897545  

Last edited by CINERAMAX; 01-20-2017 at 09:31 PM.
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #12 of 153 Old 01-15-2017, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,607
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2273 Post(s)
Liked: 1292
Send a message via Skype™ to CINERAMAX
And if there was a crucial lesson learned at CEDIA 15 which I then overcompensated and over did it at 16, is that I was pushing too hard the alcons crms at 15 and they started breaking up at ref plus 7. This last CEDIA 16 I pushed it to ref plus 12 and then madman penny nike made me take it to ref plus 18, Take it easy Alex you will give yourself an aneurism like that, I swear, also the other Alex is nut about high spl too. You have a long life ahead of you I am mister hi spl but you guys take the cake both.

This year I brought in Murats CR3's but boy it steamrolled over everything else in the room. For this room my immersion jedi instincts have me looking at the z-20 for the front, Roger says it is his best zpeaker, clean musical and super dynamic so I want to send the two left right fronts to the back corners for 5.1 or quad music surround, and also to add dynamics and articulation to the backfield, the doctor explained his seating layout its close to this one. a long sofa up front and a four seater set behind.

Now that is an old design when i used to layout everything in quadrants, now I take advantage of the altitude's many speaker options to pack much denser to the sides and above the mlp and don't give a damn any more about front heights..
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	sofa in front.jpg
Views:	847
Size:	239.2 KB
ID:	1897561  

Last edited by CINERAMAX; 01-19-2017 at 10:11 PM.
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #13 of 153 Old 01-15-2017, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,607
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2273 Post(s)
Liked: 1292
Send a message via Skype™ to CINERAMAX
the lt-20 on left (same woofers, midrange as in the NEW z-20. The cabinet looks like an oversized Z-16 same finish. This FLAGSHIP speaker was created for a Reason...NAIAD? The z-16 is to the Right



I had a 1 hours post explaining the slides below and lost it. Gotta regroup. Later...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	cr3 overpowers everything else in the room.jpg
Views:	98
Size:	406.2 KB
ID:	1906737   Click image for larger version

Name:	ZKY.jpg
Views:	622
Size:	219.9 KB
ID:	1906745   Click image for larger version

Name:	Z-20 on left.jpg
Views:	99
Size:	67.7 KB
ID:	1906753   Click image for larger version

Name:	z-20 response.jpg
Views:	115
Size:	243.2 KB
ID:	1906761  

Last edited by CINERAMAX; 01-19-2017 at 08:06 PM.
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #14 of 153 Old 01-16-2017, 05:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,607
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2273 Post(s)
Liked: 1292
Send a message via Skype™ to CINERAMAX
Cool

ACOUSTICS:

ROGER QUESTED HAS INSISTED ON THIS FOR EVERY JOB AND HERE IT FITS.
ALONG THE BACK WALL EXCEPT THE 5 FOOT GAP WHERE THE PROJECTOR IS, WE SINK IN GIANT BASS TRAPS 1 FOOT OF R-19 WITH A FASCIA OF PERFORATED MASONITE. THE BAD PANEL FROM HELL;We rob this space from the projection booth on both sides of projector 2.5 feet each way. Like Alcons has specific requirements Roger explained that for every one of his multichannnel systems this is a great tool to integrate all the assorted woofers response in a harmonious way. Who am I to argue? Let's do it then.

SINCE FOR GOOD RT-60 VALUES OF 400 WE NEED A BUNCH OF THESE, DIY AT a local cabinet shop may be an option to explore versus Vicoustics.
For the ceiling sunk into the trusses (inside a plywood frame)since the ZKY's go down to 35 hz when flush mounted we flush mount the skylines too like Brads design in Loge.

Last edited by CINERAMAX; 01-16-2017 at 05:23 AM.
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #15 of 153 Old 01-16-2017, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,607
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2273 Post(s)
Liked: 1292
Send a message via Skype™ to CINERAMAX
Cool Now this is channel sufficiency with all holes PLUGGED


watch me complain about not enough channels at CEDIA 2016.minute 1:50 Of my channel sufficiency interview with Mike Miles...

This solution elevates the performance of the system to the correct channel sufficiency, I will start pricing this out today. And explain what each new speaker model is. The special dsp class d amp for theZky's which requires a delay adjustment of the amt for blossoming at the right height on the listening area will be finished in 4 weeks with shipping of the Zky in 6 weeks.

This is the layout Roger and I agreed to, with the exception of the hole polug channel/auro height sides i just added the z-24's



Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Naiad Elevation IMMERSIVE.jpg
Views:	118
Size:	74.4 KB
ID:	1898537   Click image for larger version

Name:	Naiad Elevation FULLY IMMERSIVE 1_19.jpg
Views:	772
Size:	76.0 KB
ID:	1904881  

Last edited by CINERAMAX; 01-18-2017 at 11:19 PM.
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #16 of 153 Old 01-16-2017, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,607
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2273 Post(s)
Liked: 1292
Send a message via Skype™ to CINERAMAX
Cool My renders of 2 of the new speakers

The Zky has to be the mother of all ceiling coaxial near hemiphespherical dispersion, it uses these top of the line drivers in each dategory from that manufacturer and bothe scpeakers have a custom coupling to attach to each other. 3 out of the 4 new speakers were my idea, the z-20 came from the guy that sold a lt- set over here from Singapoor I think.

The ZKY name was Rogers idea when discussing it's future nomenclature, I concurred! He surprised me plasantly with the 12 inch woofer who knew we would be changing form 8 inchers to 12 inchers in our ATMOS systems so soon. You cannot use the standard zS4 POWER AMP WITH A FILTER CARD LIKE THE OTHERs the speaker is 4 channel class D designed to operate 2 pairs od these, it has DSP for a time delay needed for the correct integration of the amt to the 12" volt. Hope they give us an adjustment to play with the opening and closing of the listening cone, not unlike Meridians Tilt setting. the box could be like 18 x 22 by 12 deep!

sketch by GC

The Z-16 W is designed to stretch a z-16 vertically in a Dappolito array to get it in front of the screen with a vert. u bracket on the wall aiming at the MLP, it is everything a wide channel should be , it should be close to 32" tall. Poor sketch also by GC.

And enough work for me on this auspicous holiday, GC has to go see his bitches in the hood.JUST KIDDING!
aewsome or what? From my own neurons that I burn night and day to complete the IMMERSION 2025 goal. I think Naiad and Loge are already a decade ahead.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Z-16 WIDE.jpg
Views:	812
Size:	45.8 KB
ID:	1899857   Click image for larger version

Name:	ZKY.jpg
Views:	1573
Size:	219.9 KB
ID:	1899865  

Last edited by CINERAMAX; 01-16-2017 at 04:33 PM.
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #17 of 153 Old 01-16-2017, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,607
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2273 Post(s)
Liked: 1292
Send a message via Skype™ to CINERAMAX
Cool Visiting Doctor from the Hospital...

There is a Doctor in the House!

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	front stage side elevation closeup.jpg
Views:	805
Size:	79.7 KB
ID:	1900017  
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #18 of 153 Old 01-17-2017, 03:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,607
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2273 Post(s)
Liked: 1292
Send a message via Skype™ to CINERAMAX
screen aspect ratio is 1.875 with 4 way masking...

I have been megahorning for years make the screen the size of the wall and then build a masking screen to fit it, The Doctor apparently hear me loud an clear the room is 18 by 12 by 30 long so the screen image is 17' 3" wide 1.875 so 9'3 " high.


To quote the director of photography and visual effects for Jungle Book: "this will not be a Kick in the nuts (cinemascope) job, Storaro approved "

Here is the monster screen, which of course leaves the z-16's smurf scale by comparison. Hence the z-20's which provide the correct dynamics, resolution and extension for the space. It is Rogers best speaker to date. You can see how necessity is the mother of invention, the z-16 W has all the same driver complements but...it does not block the view! As I said everything a width channel should be in a PLF. But they would make 4 excellent suitable replacements for Uwe's diminutive surrounds making his , Uwe: Kauff Kauff!




So everyone forget everything you learned from 2016 back from all the experts specially Myself. YOU NEED a single seat in the second row middle to drop all the daisy cutters ON IT.



Notice also how I am robbing speakers from a my previous 32 channel systems TRITON and HYPERION to like.. Im a hot zone when the troops are overun they calll for the ordinance dropped on their positiion. THAT is exactly what I am doing I am concentrating all ordinance on the MLP. Channel sufficiency garnularity-wise and Frequency extension/scale-wise.

For example Triton: 5 Speakers eliminated from behind screen reassigned then for tighter sides and tops in NAIAD. But also the the 20 lt-24 do not have the dynamics to purvey scale be it in an intense atmos/dts-x mix or in a multichannel sacd/dvd-a/bd-audio. The lt-24 speaker used for Uwe's surround then gets weaponized into the z-24 to plug them frigging holes that drive me up a wall when I hear a great holosonic bubble and then find these glaring holes I just look at them and feel like screaming full lung into them, to say they piss me off is an understatement so I plug the ***** out of them. This is the definition of perfect envelopment then. If you can't commit to it, get an atmos soundbar. Remember on this, after the CEDIA Epiphany Barrage I know much more than the Generals!

[IMG][/IMG]



A good thing i told uwe to put the speakers on tracks although he put them too far apart the right track should be above directly over the shoulder of the person seated on the right front seat ACCORDING TO the TRINNOV generals, you do the mirror image of the procedure for the left shoulder of the left seat. I AGREE WITH THIS as long as you have 3 contigous seats like in LOGE and no more; by virtue of having dual command and control centers flanking the money seat Uwe has stretched the array TOO FAR APART, So you are destroying the envelopment intensity potential for you chair, because you want to be polite to the 2 people seating so far apart from you? I say FvCK EM ( Obwohl Sie wahrscheinlich schon sind ) but really I know that is what Curt and Trinnov say, but the problem is they ARE THE GENERALS , but who is the one that robs every other competing company year after year at CEDIA of the spoilds of honner? Mua, exactly so they are focused on envelopment around the room at the expense of diluted psychoacoustical intensity in the middle, by concentrating on a small MLP -1 3, 5 people close together YOU DESIGN FOR THAT. Then Uwe move the rows so that they hit the outer shoulders of the people in the back row you will feel more personal space invasion that way. FOR SURE. In the case of NAIAD we are going to stretch the 4 seater reclienr arrangement to 5 but we are going to line up the zky to the outermost shoulders of the center 3 people screw the outlayers they should not be considered at all in your design, this is confirmed in the extensive trigonotmetrical calculations conducted at LOGE and 3 seats next to each other the outer viewers outer shoulders drop the plumline from the ZKY's right there. and not an inch further. IS THIS CLEAR?

UWE continued: Then drop the ordinance on unto YOURSELF, get 6 zky's if you can. I am sure you can sell those 6 lt-24 . And Doctor that is what you are going to do too, but what where you thinking when ordering a 4 seater, a previous sketch of mine? oops! [SIZE="3"]THE BOOK OF IMMERSION 2025 concentrates on a single middle seat so doctor see about a way of attaching a Fifth seat to your 4 seater arrangement NOT NEGOTIABLE you work too hard and we are making American Home Cinema Great Again starting from your own very selfish middle seat. I know the front sofa has a center seat fine, it should have one too, but for prolonged eargasms you need to be closest to the middle of the room. When CENCOM targets a Taliban room they light it up what? on the middle of the room, that is where the ordinance gets dropped. So as your attorney: git! LOGE has done that with trigonometric perfection, all you need to do is order a 5th seat module.



hes got 38 speakers and only has 2 rows of tops above the mlp, you are missing the target you need zky's for full frequency sound (along with 4 z-16 w for balancing the 7.1 sound in Triton)


Does one need 3 front widths channels? forget about it just a pair fo good ones matching the sound of the mains.... I you teake tose extra channels and reassing to MLP Flanking density intensifictaion.



In Hyperion 2 front heights eliminated, a redundant pair of side heights eliminated. And also our 4 surrounds are much bigger for proper extension, dynamics and SCALE. So as you can see I am staring 2017 as I said I would completely redefining what Trinnov, dolby and the other experts say, because many of us tested my theories at CEDIA and this setup became the NEW REFERENCE for IMMMERSION 2025.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Naiad z-20 vs z-16.jpg
Views:	771
Size:	166.1 KB
ID:	1900569   Click image for larger version

Name:	naiad plf.jpg
Views:	773
Size:	530.6 KB
ID:	1900585  

Last edited by CINERAMAX; 01-20-2017 at 09:45 PM.
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #19 of 153 Old 01-17-2017, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,607
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2273 Post(s)
Liked: 1292
Send a message via Skype™ to CINERAMAX
Post z-24 SPATIAL RESOLUTION HOLE PLUG

This is currently the Z-2.4:

By the way i fought a 2.5 year uphill battle fighting Roger on the need for that U Bracket, Now He Loves it!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	ubracket for the lt-24.jpg
Views:	760
Size:	175.6 KB
ID:	1901545  

Last edited by CINERAMAX; 01-18-2017 at 01:14 AM.
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #20 of 153 Old 01-17-2017, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,607
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2273 Post(s)
Liked: 1292
Send a message via Skype™ to CINERAMAX


Bad Ass?
Reddig likes this.

Last edited by CINERAMAX; 01-18-2017 at 04:12 AM.
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #21 of 153 Old 01-18-2017, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,607
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2273 Post(s)
Liked: 1292
Send a message via Skype™ to CINERAMAX
Cool 40 rackspace of amplification not counting subs


This projector pedestal appears to have the most amp optimized
rackspace


That leaves 14 rackspaces on the doctors main rack plus the 2 or 3 seaton amps. Welcome to Atmos!

I hear the doctor also wants to use belden spaker cables, do they make a 6 conductor for the z-16 surrounds and 3 z-20 mains.

Id feel much safer with mogami.

I know that many inthe forum use the belden, is just in my life doing this Belden has sounded crunchy to my taste, of course I have not heard andy good theaters like from AVS, LOGE will use Belden 12 gauge.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	new Rack.jpg
Views:	644
Size:	141.7 KB
ID:	1904553   Click image for larger version

Name:	amp rack spaces NAIAD.JPG
Views:	644
Size:	90.2 KB
ID:	1904561   Click image for larger version

Name:	mogami  6 conductor.JPG
Views:	634
Size:	167.9 KB
ID:	1904569  

Last edited by CINERAMAX; 01-18-2017 at 08:26 PM.
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #22 of 153 Old 01-18-2017, 09:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,607
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2273 Post(s)
Liked: 1292
Send a message via Skype™ to CINERAMAX
Okay I made a miscalculation, there are extra 4 z-8's in that summary, I updated the prospectus for the doctor, thank god for brexit..

And this is where I pointed to the glaring gaps at cedia.


THE SIDE HEIGHTS WHERE WE USE THE Z2.4 TO PLUG THE HOLES.


THE MID REAR SURROUNDS(Also Missing at our IMMERSION 2025 2016 attempt).

In my latest elevation you see that the MiT Projector Stand has been fully populated with the 16 quested amps called for.


The only thing in there non quested z amps is the Projector spike arrester that keeps digital tracks of how many spikes it has prevented from going through, This also has a nice breaker to re-boot the projector.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	mid rears needed at cedia.JPG
Views:	1516
Size:	56.6 KB
ID:	1904897   Click image for larger version

Name:	side heights needed at cedia.JPG
Views:	1546
Size:	63.6 KB
ID:	1904905   Click image for larger version

Name:	quested rack is complete.jpg
Views:	652
Size:	99.6 KB
ID:	1904913  

Last edited by CINERAMAX; 01-18-2017 at 11:43 PM.
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #23 of 153 Old 01-18-2017, 11:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,607
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2273 Post(s)
Liked: 1292
Send a message via Skype™ to CINERAMAX
Regarding The Subwoofers since we have a couple of spare channels ,Paul Hales of Pro, i did like that demo room for horns sounded pretty good, speciially in the bass, he calls it directional bass, but Jon Herron of Trinnov was sold on the idea of having 4 independent sub channels for steered sub bass.That is my term. So four f-2 Masters NO SLAVES.

Last edited by CINERAMAX; 01-19-2017 at 06:36 AM.
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #24 of 153 Old 01-19-2017, 05:20 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mmiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Delaware
Posts: 4,580
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1132 Post(s)
Liked: 584
When it comes to immersive audio you have to give credit where credit is due.

This guy "CINERAMAX" in south Florida has shown many not just in theory but also by rolling up his sleeves with industry leaders and putting it to work for the customer.

Though in a budget level of its own for sure you just can't argue the result.

If the room and wallet are in sync then more speakers is the direction one should take without hesitation.
thxman likes this.

Mike Miles
[email protected]
mmiles is offline  
post #25 of 153 Old 01-19-2017, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,607
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2273 Post(s)
Liked: 1292
Send a message via Skype™ to CINERAMAX
awh. Deeply moving Mike. We try like Don Quixote.
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #26 of 153 Old 01-20-2017, 01:22 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
maikeldepotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 2,111
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1681 Post(s)
Liked: 646
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
I challenge everyone that cares about home cinema to move their TOP speakers to the red line tighter than the green line
For everyone that cares about home cinema to come as close as possible to the intended cinematic Atmos experience that indeed seems the way to go.

From Dolby Atmos Cinema Guidelines:
1. [red. translated] Measured from a horizontal pane put at the height of the side-wall mounted surrounds, the angular spread between left an right overhead arrays should be maximum 90 degrees.
2. The Central Listening Area is defined as those seats more than a quarter room-width from the nearest [red.: side or back] wall

So it appears to me that in your diagram:
- The red lines are positioned according to Dolby's placement guidelines for Cinema
- Those "fvck them seats" are outside the Central Listening Area (CLS) as defined by Dolby for Cinema

BTW A frog is NOT a reptile (and judging from their smiling faces they know it... )

A good idea and understanding lies at the base of every successful project.

Last edited by maikeldepotter; 01-20-2017 at 02:51 AM.
maikeldepotter is offline  
post #27 of 153 Old 01-20-2017, 05:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,607
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2273 Post(s)
Liked: 1292
Send a message via Skype™ to CINERAMAX
Red face The glory bubble,



Basically when i first attended the gravity premiere In 2013 at Dolby in Burbank, I was blown away from hearing sound pans all around me, then came home atmos and crickets ZZZZZ, BORING.

Since then we have done meany systems each pushing the spakers closer and closer together over a small MLP, at CEDIA 2016 we surpassed that Gravity premiere experience for the first time, also Murat should have even more of a bubble effect. But we were still missing holes to fill so hence NAIAD, it will be done in a year and a qurter. That will be the holly grail.

Now the little national mascot I devised to represent graphically in a humorous way Trinovs technical positions on layouts etc, (Parisian s have an edgy sense of humor) so I know A2 will own the mascot and not be offended in the least bit. It's so cute.

But who called the amphibian mascot a reptile? I was not referring to the mascot as a reptilian, I was calling out CURT personally for his backhanded action at Uwe's being reptilian , because we had three 2 hour 3 time zone conference calls and at the end despite my warning he used his momentary technical expertise's overwhelming superiority on athe subject matter, operational word temporay, just kidding with Curt but... nowadays Me and Walter can take on anyone, that is why we win year after year at CEDIA twice blowing away JBL efforts.

I am being playful not to fall asleep, this is fabricated humorous BRUHAHA to call attention to the very serious MESSAGE. I know what I want to hear from an IMMERSIVE system just as I heard at dolby but they had 20% harmonic distortion, Walter heard the GLORY-BUBBLE it at Murat's, and finally a bunch of us heard it at the last CEDIA IMMERSION 2025 foray, yes I was right all along about the cinema layout ( done densely over the top) as being essential to projecting a tight bubble of dynamic envelopment, but.... for the umpteenth time:I don't want to deal with any more trigonometry there are other acoustical reasons why we must concentrate our designs to 1-6 seats max.further angles be damned.

You and La Salle need to have dinner one day, I will gadly come to the restaurant but when the trig starts i relocate to the bar. The shop drawings of loge will go up by Sunday, thatiwill explain my reticence .

Last edited by CINERAMAX; 02-02-2017 at 05:43 AM.
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #28 of 153 Old 01-20-2017, 06:38 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
maikeldepotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 2,111
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1681 Post(s)
Liked: 646
You do not need much trigonometry to see that the lateral elevation angle of those overheads is about 45 degrees relative to the horizontal line drawn between the surrounds on either side. Relative to listeners level I estimate the lateral elevation to be around 30 degrees for the surrounds, and 60 degrees (45+30/2) for the overheads. What you are advocating has IMO therefore more to do with raising the surrounds above ear level, than merely putting the overhead arrays closer together. The latter being a resultant of the first, following Dolby Atmos Cinema guidelines.

A good idea and understanding lies at the base of every successful project.
maikeldepotter is offline  
post #29 of 153 Old 01-20-2017, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,607
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2273 Post(s)
Liked: 1292
Send a message via Skype™ to CINERAMAX
uested has had the time to prepare themselves

Quote:
Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
You do not need much trigonometry to see that the lateral elevation angle of those overheads is about 45 degrees relative to the horizontal line drawn between the surrounds on either side. Relative to listeners level I estimate the lateral elevation to be around 30 degrees for the surrounds, and 60 degrees (45+30/2) for the overheads. What you are advocating has IMO therefore more to do with raising the surrounds above ear level, than merely putting the overhead arrays closer together. The latter being a resultant of the first, following Dolby Atmos Cinema guidelines.
That is correct but I find much more engrossing the aspect of OCCLUSION avoidance as Taught By professor A Laborie in class. I am not necessarily happy with the heights position at Dolby too much, you place unnecessary deference on the exactitude of the angles, crediting the exactitude of the angles with powers they must definetely don't have I argue.

The Technical director of Home Atmos Brett Crocket told me in reality it does not matter that much,THEY ARE GUIDELINES but there is room to fine tune by taste and ear. yet you continue to talk trigonometrical please go contribute in Brads thread, but kindly drop the angle talk. its psoitevely nauseating to me like living life checking your pulse cionstantly, live the life.

It's not all that important, the important thing is that there are six seats you design for and pack 8 coaxial tops practically above it, and you position your surrounds for occlusion countermeasures lined up with the tops, THAT IS WHAT counts the way I did it at IMMERSION 2025.

That is what appears counter-intuitive to me the way Brad has spent years thinking the Trig and then spending bucks into getting it all autocaded with precision angles, etc, when you have been doing immersive systems since 1979, there is something that just feels not right about such cold calculations. We could have a droid design home-theaters instead then, quite frankly Brad is a sweetheart but when he gets into HAL mode and see him doing his calcualtions after calculations you sometimes have to tell him stop, and he continues, very hard headed, IQ must be 180. the sound and experience coming out of such calculations I predict will be cold and unnatural sounding I have positioned over 100 surround systems in my life in real life room and I know after awhile what works and what does not, keep in mind its not cranking out just 5.1 in series, each one of my 100 installs started with a clean sheet of paper. Short story I don't need no stinkin' trigonometry to tell exactly where the speaker will sound the most spectacularly psychoacoustically at it's dramatic best,

Ok so I also used to design around the positions of a grid, not until I abandoned the grid, for the principles first espoused here have I gotten this thing right, cause I learned it all this last cedia with the 22 channel Alcons. And that is another explanation on how envision the ebbs and tides in between Alcons and Quested but after 1 hour of riveting copy making I accidentally hit an HTML button and lost it all.


There are some not insignificant conclusions of the ever shifting dynamics on how to select the best system between the 2 brands. I will regroup my thoughts, but there are two core concepts, preparation of purpose specific product, Quested having felt abandoned by me went into my file of suggested speakers and started looking at production alternative possibilities. So the tension created from the apperance of me pushing the envelope with another brand motivated Quested to sharpen the focus, all of a sudden these necessary tools for the job are available for sale (how convenient) the ROBUST Zky c-x12 is a force on it's own that I found lacking at cedia with the crmcsc Alcons solution, it was weak not only in required form factor but dynamics and scale (yes even LOGE suffers from that you will see the detail of the troubles angling the ceiling. Here you simply park 8 over your 6 seats and let the mayhem begin. No one other company has a better atmos top PERIOD ATM.

The deign of alcons a like r2d2 or a kef 1.12 on wheels, the crms crmsc are vertical and they don't play loud enough for me. cr3 i did not like at CEDIA Walter said in Murats room it worked well due to longer throw and shadowbox but quite frankly I told Brad that wanted them that I had reservations about it to not use, problem is then to my taste they need to copy the questeds Z-20 form factor, so tables turned (momentarily I am sure).

The LT-20 in Moicow had much more of a comfortable behind screen whopping punch but musical factor the drivers being closed together it sounds more point sourcy. The problem with the LT-20 is the beyma drivver hizzy samurai sword cutting through air sonic signature. The z-20 is way more musical and sweeter that way, but all the other performance parameters of the LT-20 stay. Alcons needs to build a speaker close tot he z-20 and not the other way around. Hey don't get me wrong, that all digital chain and wider controlled directivity quotient lens can be of tremendous advantage in many situations and ultimately a requirement on the flagship best but they need to cover my speaker topography implementations with quested and finally come up with a residential sized amp suitable scaled ; then they will be ready. Even so right now but you can avoid by design the potential undercomings of quested's narrower controlled dispersion lens by ignoring the angles-fetishism obsession (yours and Brads) which I clearly proved at cedia its just a bunch of THEORETICAL bull crap, by avoiding all that paint by numbers crap that is just a means of quality control for a mass production, wereas rules meant to be broken like in NAIAD so.

Also when I explained the z-16 wide concept wall hugger vertical array Tom said that wont work. (Roger ditched the Dappolito aspect of the z-16w two much of a distance problem with the woofers far away). So at the moment Quested had purposefully addressed the market needs and is not shoving a nuclear reactor plant down everyone's throat. I have spent 150 grand promoting alcons and bringing it to ceida and elevating them to be side by side Barco, for a billionaire yes I will spec that system but not for the average millionaire.

Quested was ready to hit the market with the rights product mix ( yes they listened to my needs and acted quickly) and Roger partnered with a more aggressive younger fellow that wants to aggressively expand the brand, and it is showing. Then something wonderful happened.



BREXIT has eroded into those superiorities that Alcons has over Quested for a period of 60 days, during that period it makes no sense paying 300% for a 3 percent improvement. I will be thus be involved in the BREXIT quested exploitation for 60 days, that is all i have, in the meantime I will continue to ask Alcons to make me some of the speakers Roger so graciously made. And more importantly a companion amplifier that does not need a nuclear agreement to own.

Last edited by CINERAMAX; 01-20-2017 at 08:02 AM.
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #30 of 153 Old 01-20-2017, 07:41 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 171
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Iv not heard the Alcon Speakers yet, but I have followed your post as much as time allows me too on the Alcons. Maybe one day.

Last edited by Phantomaudio; 02-08-2017 at 04:22 AM.
Phantomaudio is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off