Sony VPL-VW5000ES 4K Laser - Page 11 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #301 of 2234 Old 04-12-2016, 02:33 AM
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Well I am one of the few that appreciated the beauty in the BR912.

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post #302 of 2234 Old 04-12-2016, 02:48 AM
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Still have the Barco 812 hanging in my old cinema room Doesn't work anymore though, which is a shame. Cannot believe I used to sit below it during screenings... the noise! The potential for life changing injuries!

My cinema: The Cave!
My kit: 15' 2.35:1 Screen Research CP2 4-way mask, JVC Z1, Lumagen Pro, Meridian 861/621/7x5500/2xSW5500
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post #303 of 2234 Old 04-12-2016, 07:14 AM
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I have to say it resembles more of a Heavy Elefant Tank to me.


4K HDR10- ignore the “rules” and trust your eyes!

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post #304 of 2234 Old 04-13-2016, 07:53 AM
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Dynamic Laser

To those who have the 5000es at home,

how well does the dynamic Laser modulation work?
I attended a demonstration of the VPL-VW5000ES, but Sony was too cheap to bring a production unit.
The unit I saw was a pre-production unit with several flaws, like a wrong DCI color filter and non working dynamic laser.
The contrast on this unit wasn't bad, but it wasn't breathtaking either. And I couldn't test the advertised "infinite contrast ratio" because it simply wasn't working.

So, Sony actually expects, that people base the decision to buy the machine on a pre-production unit with a lot of things not working as expected. (The demo unit was 1000 lumen short of brightness, too...)

If anybody has seen the dynamic contrast of the 5000es in action, what do you think?
Does it "pump"?
Does the machine adjust the gamma / brightness of the panels correctly when dimming the laser?
What happens on fast brightness changes, e.g. subtitles or credits?

And another question: Does 1080p/60 work in stereoscopic 3D? I doubt it, but it would be cool for playing computer games in 3D. Hope dies last...
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post #305 of 2234 Old 04-13-2016, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wuffzack View Post
To those who have the 5000es at home,

how well does the dynamic Laser modulation work?
I attended a demonstration of the VPL-VW5000ES, but Sony was too cheap to bring a production unit.
The unit I saw was a pre-production unit with several flaws, like a wrong DCI color filter and non working dynamic laser.
The contrast on this unit wasn't bad, but it wasn't breathtaking either. And I couldn't test the advertised "infinite contrast ratio" because it simply wasn't working.

So, Sony actually expects, that people base the decision to buy the machine on a pre-production unit with a lot of things not working as expected. (The demo unit was 1000 lumen short of brightness, too...)

If anybody has seen the dynamic contrast of the 5000es in action, what do you think?
Does it "pump"?
Does the machine adjust the gamma / brightness of the panels correctly when dimming the laser?
What happens on fast brightness changes, e.g. subtitles or credits?

And another question: Does 1080p/60 work in stereoscopic 3D? I doubt it, but it would be cool for playing computer games in 3D. Hope dies last...
Sony doesn't expect people to buy the 5000 off pre-production unit demos. That's why the are doing roadshows (in my country) and in-home demos of the production version in the US, etc, right now. They allowed a few people to see the pre-production a while ago to no doubt build up anticipation on the final product. Are you maintaining you were shown the pre-production very recently as that doesn't make a lot of sense for Sony to do that since there are production units all over the world right now being used and delivered?
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post #306 of 2234 Old 04-13-2016, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
Sony doesn't expect people to buy the 5000 off pre-production unit demos. That's why the are doing roadshows (in my country) and in-home demos of the production version in the US, etc, right now. They allowed a few people to see the pre-production a while ago to no doubt build up anticipation on the final product. Are you maintaining you were shown the pre-production very recently as that doesn't make a lot of sense for Sony to do that since there are production units all over the world right now being used and delivered?
March 23th and April 7th. I believe this counts as quite recently.
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post #307 of 2234 Old 04-13-2016, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by wuffzack View Post
March 23th and April 7th. I believe this counts as quite recently.
Would you like to clarify in what area this was the demos happened? It may go some ways to shedding light on why this was the case.
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post #308 of 2234 Old 04-13-2016, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
Sony doesn't expect people to buy the 5000 off pre-production unit demos. That's why the are doing roadshows (in my country) and in-home demos of the production version in the US, etc, right now. They allowed a few people to see the pre-production a while ago to no doubt build up anticipation on the final product. Are you maintaining you were shown the pre-production very recently as that doesn't make a lot of sense for Sony to do that since there are production units all over the world right now being used and delivered?
My demo was of a production unit, and had none of the issues raised by wiffzak.

So forget that demo, as it was pre production. The production unit I saw was, as reported, stunning with no overt flaws.
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Sony VPL-VW5000es • Panamorph Paladin DCR • Trinnov Altitude 16 • Crown DCIn amplifiers • JBL M2 (LCR-LW-RW) • JBL S2S-EX subwoofers x2 • JBL SCL-4 (side/rear surrounds) • JBL SCS12 (x4) SCS8 (x2) TH/RH/TM • Lumagen Radiance Pro • Panasonic UB820 • Apple TV 4k • Synology RAID (45 TB total storage) • RTI control system
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post #309 of 2234 Old 04-14-2016, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
Would you like to clarify in what area this was the demos happened? It may go some ways to shedding light on why this was the case.
Switzerland. But the politics of the European Sony branch don't really matter now, can't change it anyway.

I am just curious how good or bad the dynamic laser brightness works, so opinions of people, who have seen it in action are highly appreciated.

And if there is a glimpse of hope, that it can show stereoscopic 3D in 1080p/60. HDMI 2.0 should support it.
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post #310 of 2234 Old 04-14-2016, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post
My demo was of a production unit, and had none of the issues raised by wiffzak.

So forget that demo, as it was pre production. The production unit I saw was, as reported, stunning with no overt flaws.
Yes, I am sure this is the case. I was told about the "flaws" of the pre production unit beforehand, so I could at least imagine how the final product would look like.
But I can't imagine, how good or bad the dynamic laser brightness works. Is the operation visible with normal content? With subtitles? End credits?
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post #311 of 2234 Old 04-14-2016, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by wuffzack View Post
Switzerland. But the politics of the European Sony branch don't really matter now, can't change it anyway.
Ok Switzerland...right getting a better picture now. Love the place, have family friends there and great for banking too . Are you that surprised really that vs say Australia even, which is ranked by Sony as their 5th biggest projector market globally, that you may have encountered some difficulty in getting a decent viewing of the 5000 in say Switzerland? How many larger territories in Europe alone would they being trying to satisfy with demo unit 5000's, not to them mention for the rest of the world! They probably thought that giving you guys a look at the the pre-production was better than nothing at all. So if you're actually contemplating dropping the $$$ on one maybe a drive to Munich or wherever they have a production unit on display currently in Germany, would satisfy your curiosity perhaps. Than might actually work out better than trying gather thoughts on what other people have viewed with the production version and then trying to work out how that compares with what you saw with the pre-prod version..
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post #312 of 2234 Old 04-14-2016, 06:44 PM
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Last night the 5000 failed. During a normal viewing the image just went dark. Both condition lights lit red and flashed a repeated sequence of 3 flashes. This sequence is not discussed in the owners manual. After pulling the power overnight the projector cycled to ready, but when powered up it failed to light and the error flashes returned.

This is the unit that had damaged side panels from a rough FedEx ride (thanks again FedEx). Whether or not the two are related...who knows.

I did begin to have an issue with A/V sync that should never happen with HDMI 2.0 it was a second or more off. Routing the same material to the 1100, that is still up, showed no lag.
New 5000 arrived yesterday and also the Chief mount. The projector is installed and in service. The Chief mount is a more basic approach, including cost, compared to the Sony offered mount. The Sony may be OK for those who like the industrial look.
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post #313 of 2234 Old 04-15-2016, 05:27 AM
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Quite unexpectedly (was planning to display the VPL-VW655), we have the VPL-VW5000ES at Axpona 2016 this weekend (Seaton Sound, LaSalle ballroom C).

Since Seaton is a speaker manufacturer, most of what we show will be 1080p Atmos material scaled to 4K with a Lumagen Radiance Pro. That said, it looks pretty amazing with 4K content from the Samsung UHD TV pack.


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post #314 of 2234 Old 04-15-2016, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Upgrades in progress. Sony 5000ES projectors in the house!

I am replacing both my Barco DP4k-23B and my Barco DP4k-P, at both my primary house and my beach house, with the new Sony 5000ES.



The big theater will be having the back wall repaired from the removal of the big Barco projector box. The Sony will fit fully in my projector/equipment closet like my DPI Titan originally did. Once the bump-out on the back wall has been removed, and the projection shelf is raised back up, i can install the Sony. Hopefully this will get completed next two weeks.





I have been working on the theater at the beach house. Both have a 14' wide 2.0 aspect screen. While my primary theater has a full 4-way masking screen, the theater in my beach house has just a plain fixed screen without any masking.





Removing the Barco projector and enclosure. Im going to recess the Sony projector into a bathroom directly behind the theater.





I built a soffit over the bathroom vanity, so I could recess the Sony projector. I needed more throw distance to fill my existing screen, but I also wanted to keep from having such a large projection enclosure in the theater room again.





The projector is about 36" deep including lens. The projector box sticks into the theater 10" and then 4" between the studs and sheetrock, and then 22" over the bathroom vanity. The vanity is also 22" deep, so thats why I didn't recess the projector all the way. I didn't want the soffit to stick out past the countertop.





Soffit area closed up. Now just need to touch up some paint. The back of the box is being vented with fans into the main AC return air line.





While waiting for the Sony 5000ES, I got a JVC RS600 projector to play around with. That projector is absolutely incredible, it just didn't have enough light output for my screen.



I liked the image so much that I decided to mount it in the master bedroom, but due to WAF, the projector had to be hidden from view. The boss had been begging for reading lights over the bed, so this gave me an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone.





I used a linear actuator so that the front of the soffit would automatically open and close using the Control4 system, when the projector is turned on. I have a motorized screen recessed into the soffit which runs around the room, so the whole system is pretty stealth. Now if I can just figure out how to get my significant other to agree to painting the room a darker color!





Back to the Sony! The image is incredible. The unit is extremely bright. The laser can be dimmed on a scale from 0-100. I am running the laser between 35-40, and that give me 25fL on my 14' wide .9 gain screen. When the laser is set to 100, I was getting about 4900 lumens at Rec709.

The laser dimming functions extremely well, and I have never been a fan of any dynamic iris. I don't know if its because the laser can react so much faster, since its not mechanical, but I haven't noticed it working at all, except during credits. And only during credit, if the screen goes completely blank. With the laser dimming set to full, it will basically shut off the laser completely when there is a totally black screen. If its in limited mode, it dims it significantly, but doesn't shut it off. I have found that full dimming works well, so for now I am running it in the full setting. Fades to black are just incredible.

Coming from many previous high-end 3chip DLPs, I can certainly appreciate the increase in native contrast, and especially dynamic contrast. I found myself being pulled out of the image more and more with my DLP, due to poor performance in low APL scenes. I do feel like the Sony is a little "softer" than the DCI projector, but this isn't surprising considering the size difference between the two lens. But while 1080P does seem a little soft to me, 4K is a whole other story. The 4K image on the Sony is by far one of the best images I have ever seen from any video projector.

Next week I intend to install my Radiance Pro, and see how that units scaling from 1080P > 4K compares to the Sony. Lastly, this unit is not just quiet, its insanely quiet. While i can slightly hear the Sony if the laser is at full power, at the 35-40 setting I'm currently using it is basically silent. I cant even hear the unit when the volume is completely turned off.

I have the Samsung 4K bluray player, and look forward to testing out HDR over the next few days. I will report back after I get some more playtime, but overall I couldn't be happier. I really expect this projector will be something I will easily keep for the next 4-5 years, maybe longer!
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post #315 of 2234 Old 04-16-2016, 12:30 AM
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Chris

Very nice set up I like it.

I had in my sleeping room a similar set up with a Sony Qualia long time ago.
Today I run a 4K 65" OLED but wait for the 77" but Looks like LG comes not on time.
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post #316 of 2234 Old 04-16-2016, 04:11 AM
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Great setup Chris. Hopefully I can add contributory comments to this thread as my 5000ES arrives early next week. Thanks again Wolfgang I now have a nice head start from your early posts. Great fun/exciting times again for front projection.
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post #317 of 2234 Old 04-16-2016, 04:51 AM
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@ccool96

Nice! But you're contributing to the big 5000 backlog by glomming two...

UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
Sony VPL-VW5000es • Panamorph Paladin DCR • Trinnov Altitude 16 • Crown DCIn amplifiers • JBL M2 (LCR-LW-RW) • JBL S2S-EX subwoofers x2 • JBL SCL-4 (side/rear surrounds) • JBL SCS12 (x4) SCS8 (x2) TH/RH/TM • Lumagen Radiance Pro • Panasonic UB820 • Apple TV 4k • Synology RAID (45 TB total storage) • RTI control system
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post #318 of 2234 Old 04-16-2016, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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@ccool96

Nice! But you're contributing to the big 5000 backlog by glomming two...
Don't worry, I was only keeping one of those two units! The other was for someone else.

I'm still having to wait on my second unit, as they are slowly rationed out!

I think Sony greatly underestimated the desire of this projector. But I hope they are starting to catch up on back logs quickly.

Just to give you an idea of how long I had to wait for this order, Both of theses units were ordered the first day of Cedia.
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post #319 of 2234 Old 04-16-2016, 02:01 PM
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Don't worry, I was only keeping one of those two units! The other was for someone else.

I'm still having to wait on my second unit, as they are slowly rationed out!

I think Sony greatly underestimated the desire of this projector. But I hope they are starting to catch up on back logs quickly.

Just to give you an idea of how long I had to wait for this order, Both of theses units were ordered the first day of Cedia.
Since so many folks seem to be having signal issues with 4K - can I ask what length HDMI cable are you running to the 5000 - and which cable did you select?
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post #320 of 2234 Old 04-16-2016, 04:33 PM
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i have just tested the vw5000, are you almusing 2:35.1 screens or 16:9? i was think this time not use an anamorphic lins and a 16:9 screen and mask it down to 2:35.1
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post #321 of 2234 Old 04-16-2016, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Don't worry, I was only keeping one of those two units! The other was for someone else.

I'm still having to wait on my second unit, as they are slowly rationed out!

I think Sony greatly underestimated the desire of this projector. But I hope they are starting to catch up on back logs quickly.

Just to give you an idea of how long I had to wait for this order, Both of theses units were ordered the first day of Cedia.
Since so many folks seem to be having signal issues with 4K - can I ask what length HDMI cable are you running to the 5000 - and which cable did you select?

I am using a 50' Monoprice Cabernet cable on both the Sony 5000 and the JVC 600. Both work just fine with 4K/24 10bit 4:4:4 color and with HDR / WCG.

I am using the HDFury Integral to limit 4K/60 8 bit 4:4:4 to 4K/60 8bit 4:2:0.

This has been fine so far, but with me adding DirecTV 4K, this might be an issue.

I'm not aware of any 50' cables that currently work at 18gbps. I have looked at fiber and other high-end cables and none have worked thus far. I'm sure we will see quite a few options available before long. I expect when I replace these two existing cables, I will most likely switch to fiber. My hope would be, while the transmitters and receiver might have to change over time, the fiber itself wouldn't have to be replaced.
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post #322 of 2234 Old 04-16-2016, 08:35 PM
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If you're using 50/125 om3/4 multimode fiber with a sufficient strand count, you shouldn't have to replace the wire anytime soon. 8 strand is currently used for 40Gb/s ethernet up to 100 meters. I believe a pair of 10 strand is rated up to 100Gb/s. We usually run one or two 12 strand which covers most bases. As you mentioned, it's always in the hardware. With the crazy data rates increasing I see fiber as the future as well. The wire itself is honestly not that expensive anymore. It's always the connectors and accompanying hardware that costs an arm and a leg. And no hardware really exists for this type of video transmission yet that I've heard of either. But the bandwidth is there so hopefully someone will soon in an application that isn't proprietary to their product.
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post #323 of 2234 Old 04-17-2016, 01:22 PM
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Great setup Chris. Hopefully I can add contributory comments to this thread as my 5000ES arrives early next week. Thanks again Wolfgang I now have a nice head start from your early posts. Great fun/exciting times again for front projection.
Hi Lon,

Thought I should connect with you guys (Art, Jeff, Ash & the gang) and let you know that I'm _just_ about done with my theater. I've already got the 5000 installed (Dave Abrams just finished calibrating it) on a 19' screen. I'm still playing with it (learning how to use it) so I don't have any useful measurements yet. It's a pretty amazing beast. I've got 4-way masking on a 1.0 SnoMatte Stewart. I'll try & post some pics in a mini-build thread when I get a chance. It's been a 3-4 year project. Keith Yates is coming tomorrow for a week to calibrate the system, so by the end of next week, we should be finally finished. Whew!

Thanks to all of you for all your help & inspiration!

-Rob
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post #324 of 2234 Old 04-17-2016, 02:51 PM
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Hi Lon,

Thought I should connect with you guys (Art, Jeff, Ash & the gang) and let you know that I'm _just_ about done with my theater. I've already got the 5000 installed (Dave Abrams just finished calibrating it) on a 19' screen. I'm still playing with it (learning how to use it) so I don't have any useful measurements yet. It's a pretty amazing beast. I've got 4-way masking on a 1.0 SnoMatte Stewart. I'll try & post some pics in a mini-build thread when I get a chance. It's been a 3-4 year project. Keith Yates is coming tomorrow for a week to calibrate the system, so by the end of next week, we should be finally finished. Whew!

Thanks to all of you for all your help & inspiration!

-Rob

Wow , just that pic looks beautiful ! Great to hear from you here. Please do post more for the nuts around here ,such as me.


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post #325 of 2234 Old 04-17-2016, 03:17 PM
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Wow! Congratulations on your projectors! And thank you for your writeup. I would like to hear more as you have it.
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post #326 of 2234 Old 04-17-2016, 03:19 PM
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Wow , just that pic looks beautiful ! Great to hear from you here. Please do post more for the nuts around here ,such as me.


Art

Hi Rob.

Congrats! 19' screen. I can only imagine. I thinks it's been a few years since you visited Art and I. Great fun!

I, too, am looking forward to your pics. You are a patient man!

Tell us a little about your audio set up.. I see an Altitude.. What is your channel count and room size? That is alotta gear!!

All the best!

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.

Last edited by thebland; 04-17-2016 at 03:22 PM.
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post #327 of 2234 Old 04-17-2016, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Great setup Chris. Hopefully I can add contributory comments to this thread as my 5000ES arrives early next week. Thanks again Wolfgang I now have a nice head start from your early posts. Great fun/exciting times again for front projection.
Hi Lon,

Thought I should connect with you guys (Art, Jeff, Ash & the gang) and let you know that I'm _just_ about done with my theater. I've already got the 5000 installed (Dave Abrams just finished calibrating it) on a 19' screen. I'm still playing with it (learning how to use it) so I don't have any useful measurements yet. It's a pretty amazing beast. I've got 4-way masking on a 1.0 SnoMatte Stewart. I'll try & post some pics in a mini-build thread when I get a chance. It's been a 3-4 year project. Keith Yates is coming tomorrow for a week to calibrate the system, so by the end of next week, we should be finally finished. Whew!

Thanks to all of you for all your help & inspiration!

-Rob
Incredible setup!!!
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post #328 of 2234 Old 04-17-2016, 04:03 PM
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Rob,
Welcome back...
You hit the ball out of the Park - 19 foot screen - who would have thought. And the volume (cubic feet) of the room should be huge...and thus the watts required to drive the sound.
The rack looks epic... would love to get your equipment list and is it a ATMOS system?
I have become a 3D lover (from a 3D hate - since I experienced 3D on OLED's) - I am very curious to know how 3D is on this projector?
Would be following up on this thread to hear your comments on the ES5000 and more.
Enjoy your new system and congratulations on finishing the project.
Ash
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post #329 of 2234 Old 04-17-2016, 06:28 PM
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Don't worry, I was only keeping one of those two units! The other was for someone else.

I'm still having to wait on my second unit, as they are slowly rationed out!

I think Sony greatly underestimated the desire of this projector. But I hope they are starting to catch up on back logs quickly.

Just to give you an idea of how long I had to wait for this order, Both of theses units were ordered the first day of Cedia.
I was told by my Sony Pro contact here in Oz that apparently we have a pretty good order turn around time of approx 3 weeks to delivery.

Not that I'll be in much of a position to order one after I finally have a viewing mid next week thanks to the debacle that getting my money refunded on my cancelled Steinway Audio system upgrade has evolved into. Long story short but it turns out the supplier/distributor has told me Steinway are total jerks to deal with and take up front payment on everything - despite the fact this their stand product line stuff like the P200 processor, amps and speakers. So I'm now looking at tearing out the whole SL system in my apartment media room (that I'm not using enough to justify the upgrade) to make it saleable with the upgrade thanks to the fact SL insist that the existing P100 processor be handed back as a part of the 'upgrade deal', making it unsaleable as a standalone or part system. Doesn't help the the handful of other guys in Oz who wanted the upgrade have already got theirs.. So this is going to be fun liberating the $60k that would pay for a 5000 that's all tied up with this mess .

So for now I've had to fill in with an RS500 after sending off my firmware bungled 600 the other week in my main HT so I can at least enjoy some HDR and WCG..
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post #330 of 2234 Old 04-18-2016, 01:42 AM
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I had the opportunity to visit the Sony Atsugi Design Center outside Tokyo last week where Sony's professional display products are designed and audition this projector. It's obviously a very impressive machine, and I got a demo of a production version with full HDR functionality being driven by a Samsung UHD Blu-ray player and the Sony 4K media player.

Some basic data regarding light output post calibration is:
Calibrated REC.709: ~3,800 lumens
Calibrated DCI P3/BT.2020: ~2,700 lumens

The auto calibration feature uses an RGB sensor/camera inside the lens. Any user calibration adjustments are deltas to the internally calibrated settings. This means that as the projector auto calibrates and adjusts levels based on aging of the laser light engine, your calibrated deltas are still maintained to ensure that you don't have to recalibrate.

The Windows software tool that allows remote management of the projector, including calibration, will be updated to support this projector by early summer. Upgradeability of the HDMI input board to support future HDMI standards is not planned at this time.

The projector has six fans, two in the front and four in the rear. It's quiet, but not silent. When watching HDR content with brightness cranked up noise levels did not increase much, but it pushes a lot of hot air out the back so additional cooling/ventilation may be required in your room/hush box.

The Samsung UHD Blu-ray player is not fully compatible with the UHD Blu-ray or HDMI 2.0a specs. Sony does not recommend using this player with the VPL-VW5000ES. Instead, they recommend waiting for the Panasonic DMP-UB900.
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