Sony VPL-VW5000ES 4K Laser - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 2242 Old 10-16-2015, 12:56 AM
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Need to find out what real world contrast numbers are... Some suggestions already that native CR is same as vw1000, which means blacks are going to be highly elevated by the much brighter output...? That bothers me a little as there is then still a lot of room for improvement, which means another new projector down the line, making this a very expensive "stop gap"...

Can the lasers be dimmed if the full 5000 is not needed?

Zoom memories? Laser brightness adjusted per zoom?

Black frame insertion?

Dynamic iris control?

Also wondering how these projectors are going to handle different sources (eg bluray vs HDR) and whether we're going to see wildly different light levels based on source and whether there is any way to control this to give a more consistent output.

My cinema: The Cave!
My kit: 15' 2.35:1 Screen Research CP2 4-way mask, JVC Z1, Lumagen Pro, Meridian 861/621/7x5500/2xSW5500

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post #32 of 2242 Old 10-16-2015, 12:29 PM
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If anyone gets a chance, can you ask the Sony guys at CEDIA if it will be able to stretch 4k material? I sure wish they would do a software update to the 1100ES to enable this.
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post #33 of 2242 Old 10-16-2015, 12:39 PM
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Can someone also provide its dimensions to enable comparison with 1100ES as I have a TR-challenged setup?
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post #34 of 2242 Old 10-16-2015, 03:42 PM
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post #35 of 2242 Old 10-16-2015, 05:42 PM
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Who wants my 1100 (true 1100 not upgraded 1000) with less than 200 hours on it??

4K HDR10- ignore the “rules” and trust your eyes!
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post #36 of 2242 Old 10-16-2015, 06:21 PM
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€1100,- ;-)
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post #37 of 2242 Old 10-16-2015, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post
Who wants my 1100 (true 1100 not upgraded 1000) with less than 200 hours on it??
If i didnt have to sell my 600 to fund this, i'd be at your door tonight Joe
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post #38 of 2242 Old 10-17-2015, 05:33 AM
 
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I'm with @Mark_H on this. I want to see what kind of native on/off and ANSI contrast this unit has. Can we turn the laser down? I'm sure we can but to what extent? Most of us don't need 5000 lumens on our screens (or even 2000 lumens). It seems to be using the same lens as the 1100ES (which isn't a bad thing). What about I/O? Does this have full bandwidth 18Gbps HDMI 2.0 inputs for up to 4K60 12bit 4:2:2 or does it still only allow for 4K60 8bit 4:2:0 like with the 1100ES? Lots of questions need to be answered.

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post #39 of 2242 Old 10-18-2015, 05:53 AM
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In talking to the Sony guy, 1) the lens on it is identical to that of the 1100, and the native CR will be about the same; 2) the lumen output can be tuned (continuously, as I asked him twice) from 5000 down to 2000.
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post #40 of 2242 Old 10-18-2015, 08:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post
In talking to the Sony guy, 1) the lens on it is identical to that of the 1100, and the native CR will be about the same; 2) the lumen output can be tuned (continuously, as I asked him twice) from 5000 down to 2000.
So unless you need the higher lumen output and would like HDR support there really doesn't seem to be a reason to jump to this model? Considering it's the same lens and SXRD panels we can assume from the Sony rep's comments that native on/off and ANSI contrast, motion performance and overall image quality to be very similar to the 1100ES?

Is P3 supported natively or is there a filter that needs to be used?
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post #41 of 2242 Old 10-18-2015, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post
In talking to the Sony guy, 1) the lens on it is identical to that of the 1100, and the native CR will be about the same; 2) the lumen output can be tuned (continuously, as I asked him twice) from 5000 down to 2000.
So no lens options, just 1 size fits all on a $60k projector?

 

 

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post #42 of 2242 Old 10-18-2015, 01:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rabident View Post
So no lens options, just 1 size fits all on a $60k projector?
The VPL-GTZ270, which seems to be the same projector as this unit, offers a short throw zoom lens ( Sony # VPLL-Z7008) that has a throw ratio of 0.8-1.0. The standard lens is 1.27-2.73. It looks like throws outside this range are SOL with this projector. Though conversion lenses can be purchased if a different throw ratio needs to be achieved.

Edit:

According to this Sony PDF this short throw lens will be offered for the Sony VPL-VW5000ES:

http://pro.sony-asia.com/pro/export/...t?VPL-VW5000ES

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post #43 of 2242 Old 10-18-2015, 02:50 PM
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Mount

Saw the 5000 ES Mounted In the Stewart Booth projecting on a smaller screen - the projector was drawing NO attention as Stewart was only advertising its screen with no mention of the projector. When I asked the expert at the Sony booth can this projector be mounted he walked me to the Stewart booth next door and I saw this jewel running - picture looked very washed out as compared to the DPI Insight 4K couple of screens over (which was looking like a LED TV bright) projecting on 12 foot wide stewart cinecurve screen.
There was NO light control in the Stewart Booth/s.
For my 12 foot wide cinecurve 1.3 gain totally light controlled room - I can get 20 FTL PLUS at brightness set at 2000 Lumens after calibration (This is what I achieve with my Sim Lumis Host Today) - I can only imagine how cool the 3D will look at 5000 Lumens :-)
Sony told me that they measured 40 FTL (or maybe 51 - sorry the exact number slipped out of my mind but I thought to myself wow that is huge) on the 220 inch foot wide 1.3 gain stewart screen they were projecting on full power in the light controlled demo.
The projector was intaking air from the front and air was exiting from the back (see fans in the attache picture) - the projector was running very cool (the Sony rep pointed how cool it was as compared to the 1100 ES) - I touched the projector bottom and the case was cool to feel even though the projector was running all day - the projector was super quiet as I stepped under the projector and tried to hear but this was on the show floor and I am not sure how much it will sound in a noise controlled room).
The projector is actually smaller than my once beloved Qualia 004 - so it will fit perfectly in my projector box.
I took a few pictures of the mount for those who have questions about mounting this baby - Enjoy.
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post #44 of 2242 Old 10-18-2015, 05:19 PM
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Unrelated but I was taken back by Stewart's conservative booth as say compared to Screen Innovations.

I guess loaning all those screens takes away from your booth budget.

However SI had a lot of screens on the floor too.

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post #45 of 2242 Old 10-18-2015, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
I'm with @Mark_H on this. I want to see what kind of native on/off and ANSI contrast this unit has. Can we turn the laser down? I'm sure we can but to what extent? Most of us don't need 5000 lumens on our screens (or even 2000 lumens). It seems to be using the same lens as the 1100ES (which isn't a bad thing). What about I/O? Does this have full bandwidth 18Gbps HDMI 2.0 inputs for up to 4K60 12bit 4:2:2 or does it still only allow for 4K60 8bit 4:2:0 like with the 1100ES? Lots of questions need to be answered.

Seegs, seems Art has answered the 4K60 4:4:4 question over in the CEDIA 2015 wrap on his site: http://www.projectorreviews.com/arti...-home-theater/

Quote:
For those more technically inclined, this Sony supports HDR for enhanced dynamic range (the image REALLY Pops!) It supports DCI content, (the standard that the commercial movie theaters use. DCI is coming to the home and this Sony is ready. Well, Blu-ray UHD is supporting DCI as well, so it won’t be the only projector (the lower cost Sony 4K’s also do. It also supports YCbCr 4:4:4 color space – at 4K x60fps. I don’t believe anything else out there can do that. Some will support up to 30fps with that much color space, but no more. It also can emulates the new BT2020 standard. - See more at: http://www.projectorreviews.com/arti....6tuQo8Ie.dpuf

Last edited by OzHDHT; 10-18-2015 at 05:29 PM.
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post #46 of 2242 Old 10-18-2015, 07:27 PM
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1. Does the 5000ES do a 4K V-Stretch? And is an upgrade expected for the 1100ES for the 4K V-Stretch?
2. Are we saying we don't expect to see a dramatic improvement in image quality over 1100ES?
3. What exactly is the difference between 5000ES, GTZ270, and GTZ280?
4. Can an optional short throw lens also be fitted into the 1100ES?
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post #47 of 2242 Old 10-18-2015, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS3771 View Post
1. Does the 5000ES do a 4K V-Stretch? And is an upgrade expected for the 1100ES for the 4K V-Stretch?
2. Are we saying we don't expect to see a dramatic improvement in image quality over 1100ES?
3. What exactly is the difference between 5000ES, GTZ270, and GTZ280?
4. Can an optional short throw lens also be fitted into the 1100ES?
I'll have a stab at 1,2, and 4 mainly:

1. I would have to think at cost and with plenty of time for Sony to be able to write that into new software it should be more or less a given. Still I'm sure someone will check that fairly soon to 100% certain.
2. That does sound quite likely really with them sharing the same lens. I would suspect the main SXRD chip hasn't change a great deal either. This leaves the massive diff in brightness and HDR, neither of those are specifically image quality improvements specifically - more so new features for install flexibility/ enhancements.
4. There's aren't any retrofit short throws for the 1100ES - mind you can't think of that many install situs where you'd want to reduce the throw that much more than factory.

3. is really the fact the 5000 is built for the home market and the other 2 are commercial units.

Last edited by OzHDHT; 10-18-2015 at 07:46 PM.
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post #48 of 2242 Old 10-18-2015, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mmiles View Post
Unrelated but I was taken back by Stewart's conservative booth as say compared to Screen Innovations.

I guess loaning all those screens takes away from your booth budget.

However SI had a lot of screens on the floor too.
If the booth is as hyper as the SI guy. See for yourself: CEDIA: Video's from the Showfloor Screen Innovation Screens .
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post #49 of 2242 Old 10-18-2015, 07:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS3771 View Post
1. Does the 5000ES do a 4K V-Stretch? And is an upgrade expected for the 1100ES for the 4K V-Stretch?
2. Are we saying we don't expect to see a dramatic improvement in image quality over 1100ES?
3. What exactly is the difference between 5000ES, GTZ270, and GTZ280?
4. Can an optional short throw lens also be fitted into the 1100ES?
All that extra brightness can be addicting. While the unit may not measure higher in some areas, the extra brightness can give the subjective impression of a sharper image with more contrast. All the other questions you've asked can't be "officially" answered yet as we don't have anything concrete from Sony on these new units yet. But I'm sure we will very soon.
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post #50 of 2242 Old 10-18-2015, 07:58 PM
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@Oz, over 10.2 Gbs HDMI...
From what people have reported from the showfloor, the 5000 is a simple rebadge of the GTZ270. The 280 has no full bandwidth HDMI 2.0a input. It does not have wide colour gamut/p3. It does have an 120 FPS input.
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post #51 of 2242 Old 10-19-2015, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Considering it's the same lens and SXRD panels we can assume from the Sony rep's comments that native on/off and ANSI contrast, motion performance and overall image quality to be very similar to the 1100ES?
I didn't ask this at the show, but as far as motion performance, for those who need 2000 lumens Sony could implement things in a way where they could allow black frame insertion when people choose a less than 5000 lumen case.

They could also allow those who want 2000 lumens to run the lasers full bore with closed down iris (or irises) for more native on/off CR, although that likely wouldn't allow black frame insertion since both normally reduce peak light output.

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post #52 of 2242 Old 10-19-2015, 04:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark_H View Post
Some suggestions already that native CR is same as vw1000, which means blacks are going to be highly elevated by the much brighter output...?
If you choose to use the higher light output for higher nits off the screen then the same native CR means higher black level off the screen for that test, but if you use a darker screen for the same nits then the nits off the screen for the projected light would be the same as before for white and black in that test.

With a darker screen with the same directionality you could improve the rejection of light from the room (both from other sources and from room reflections).

--Darin
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post #53 of 2242 Old 10-19-2015, 08:15 AM
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Anyone know the specs for 3D on the VW5000. Im curious if it is the same as the VW1100 (48hz).


Considering the VW5000 delivers over twice the brightness as the 1100 flicker may be annoying if still at 48hz. Ideally the new VW5000 will produce 72 HZ for 3D Blue Ray.

I am hoping for a bump in native contrast over the VW1100 as well considering this is a $60k projector but we will see. I am sure we will get clarification as we get closer to product launch.



Because the projector is one of the few ready for HDR it is tempting.
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post #54 of 2242 Old 10-19-2015, 10:33 AM
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The 280 has 60P 3D, total 120 FPS, or 120 FPS in 2D, also 120 FPS input, whereas the 270 has a 60P input but with HDMI 2.0a and HDR (extended Dynamic Range in Sony terminology, Sony is not the only one to differentiate between upto around 10 f-stops EDR and higher HDR). It is most likely that the video processing line is the same besides the inputs, so 120 fps=2x60. But 144/240 is not to be expected, otherwise they would have shouted about this feat.

Native 20K:1 contrast for the 270:

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post #55 of 2242 Old 10-19-2015, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
4. There's aren't any retrofit short throws for the 1100ES - mind you can't think of that many install situs where you'd want to reduce the throw that much more than factory.
I'm in the "not many". I would like to mount the projector in the riser, shooting out to fill the front wall. This way no one catches 5,000 lumens in the face if they get up during the movie. So short throw lens is what I was looking for.

 

 

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post #56 of 2242 Old 10-19-2015, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post
Anyone know the specs for 3D on the VW5000. Im curious if it is the same as the VW1100 (48hz).


Considering the VW5000 delivers over twice the brightness as the 1100 flicker may be annoying if still at 48hz. Ideally the new VW5000 will produce 72 HZ for 3D Blue Ray.

I am hoping for a bump in native contrast over the VW1100 as well considering this is a $60k projector but we will see. I am sure we will get clarification as we get closer to product launch.



Because the projector is one of the few ready for HDR it is tempting.

Hi Alan. Sony was saying 300K:1 contrast at Cedia ( with dynamic iris etc. ). It looked to us to be similar to the VW1100 on the screen. Pretty bright on a 220" diagonal StudioTek 130 G3.
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post #57 of 2242 Old 10-19-2015, 01:33 PM
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Just wonder if it will be here before the Super Bowl?

4K HDR10- ignore the “rules” and trust your eyes!
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post #58 of 2242 Old 10-19-2015, 01:37 PM
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Hi Alan. Sony was saying 300K:1 contrast at Cedia ( with dynamic iris etc. ). It looked to us to be similar to the VW1100 on the screen. Pretty bright on a 220" diagonal StudioTek 130 G3.
I asked the Sony rep what the Native CR for the projector is and he told me that 'Sony does not want to talk about native CR'.

This projector is in my cross hairs - I will own one soon...
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post #59 of 2242 Old 10-19-2015, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
I asked the Sony rep what the Native CR for the projector is and he told me that 'Sony does not want to talk about native CR'.

This projector is in my cross hairs - I will own one soon...

I think if you look closely the contrast ratio is missing on the info tag -


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post #60 of 2242 Old 10-19-2015, 01:59 PM
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I hope someone goes out and measures the Native CR it and publishes it...... because for such a bright projector if the CR is only equivalent to 1100ES that is a bummer.
Also, the frequency of 72HZ if possible as mentioned by Alan above is also of great interest to me.
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