JBL Synthesis SDP-75 - Page 17 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #481 of 507 Old 08-06-2019, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mmiles View Post
You missed the cheap JBL threads.

What you stated was exactly what would have been useful to the masses. - Starting a new thread.

This just seems like another appearance.
Thanks so much for your appreciation and opinion. I'll be sure to consult you about how to do it properly in the future if I have some information to share.

Do you have anything to contribute or are you just here to criticize me? Really, I don't post that much but try to be informative and helpful when I do.
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post #482 of 507 Old 08-06-2019, 06:50 PM
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No need to consult with me but I appreciate the offer and I’m quite flattered.

It’s just all the information you post are threads you have a commercial interest.

But that’s just me I’m sure no one else shares that opinion.

Being in our 60s I hope neither of us bust a valve or throw a rod.

BTW the other guys on that round table are highly interesting.

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post #483 of 507 Old 08-06-2019, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mmiles View Post
No need to consult with me but I appreciate the offer and I’m quite flattered.

It’s just all the information you post are threads you have a commercial interest.

But that’s just me I’m sure no one else shares that opinion.

Being in our 60s I hope neither of us bust a valve or throw a rod.

BTW the other guys on that round table are highly interesting.
At our age it'd be nice to 'throw a rod' once in a while
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post #484 of 507 Old 08-06-2019, 07:39 PM
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No need to consult with me but I appreciate the offer and I’m quite flattered. It’s just all the information you post are threads you have a commercial interest. But that’s just me I’m sure no one else shares that opinion. Being in our 60s I hope neither of us bust a valve or throw a rod. BTW the other guys on that round table are highly interesting.
Only one other person has ever said something about my posts and my "commercial interest". I can only say, I joined AVS long before I started my relationship with John and The Screening Room. I joined to talk about Revel speakers because I bought a pair of F208's and was very impressed. I bought them without hearing them based on a lot of research I had done. I was a professional recording and live sound engineer for 34 years, I have no background in sales. John asked me to join his team because he wanted to spend his time on other things. He had spent a lot of time on AVS promoting Revel, JBL and other audio/video equipment based on science. I worked at the University of Illinois School of Music and taught audio in addition to being the chief engineer, not because it was part of my job, but because I like teaching people what I know about audio. I'm really happy I got the opportunity to work with John. I just got to go to Harman and meet Dr. Toole, Kevin Voecks and many of the principal design engineers. I was like a kid in a candy store, I got to hear some of the most amazing systems I have ever heard. I'm a life long leaner, still reading and trying to learn everything in Dr. Toole's book.

I'm here to help people learn if I can. If someone wants to work with The Screening Room to put together a nice audio or home theater system, I'm happy to help facilitate that. It is not my primary interest in posting here. I retired from the U of I in 2010. I spend time here most every day because I enjoy talking about audio/video and home theater. I miss being able to work in recording studios and doing live sound mixing. At age 65, I think I have done enough of that. It's hard work, believe it or not. Very demanding both physically and mentally. I can post here from the comfort of my home, take breaks, listen to music, cook dinner and drink good wine.

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post #485 of 507 Old 08-06-2019, 07:51 PM
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I did live sound and n my youth then fixed stage sound for 8+ years for the church I attend.

It was hard work until we went to in ear monitors and put the drum riser on rollers.

I guess it’s like Jim Koch from Boston Beer (Sam Adams) if you like what you do you never work another day in your life.

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post #486 of 507 Old 08-06-2019, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
Only one other person has ever said something about my posts and my "commercial interest". I can only say, I joined AVS long before I started my relationship with John and The Screening Room. I joined to talk about Revel speakers because I bought a pair of F208's and was very impressed. I bought them without hearing them based on a lot of research I had done. I was a professional recording and live sound engineer for 34 years, I have no background in sales. John asked me to join his team because he wanted to spend his time on other things. He had spent a lot of time on AVS promoting Revel, JBL and other audio/video equipment based on science. I worked at the University of Illinois School of Music and taught audio in addition to being the chief engineer, not because it was part of my job, but because I like teaching people what I know about audio. I'm really happy I got the opportunity to work with John. I just got to go to Harman and meet Dr. Toole, Kevin Voecks and many of the principal design engineers. I was like a kid in a candy store, I got to hear some of the most amazing systems I have ever heard. I'm a life long leaner, still reading and trying to learn everything in Dr. Toole's book.

I'm here to help people learn if I can. If someone wants to work with The Screening Room to put together a nice audio or home theater system, I'm happy to help facilitate that. It is not my primary interest in posting here. I retired from the U of I in 2010. I spend time here most every day because I enjoy talking about audio/video and home theater. I miss being able to work in recording studios and doing live sound mixing. At age 65, I think I have done enough of that. It's hard work, believe it or not. Very demanding both physically and mentally. I can post here from the comfort of my home, take breaks, listen to music, cook dinner and drink good wine.
Thank you. I hope I helped
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post #487 of 507 Old 08-06-2019, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
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Originally Posted by mmiles View Post
No need to consult with me but I appreciate the offer and I’️m quite flattered. It’️s just all the information you post are threads you have a commercial interest. But that’️s just me I’️m sure no one else shares that opinion. Being in our 60s I hope neither of us bust a valve or throw a rod. BTW the other guys on that round table are highly interesting.
Only one other person has ever said something about my posts and my "commercial interest". I can only say, I joined AVS long before I started my relationship with John and The Screening Room. I joined to talk about Revel speakers because I bought a pair of F208's and was very impressed. I bought them without hearing them based on a lot of research I had done. I was a professional recording and live sound engineer for 34 years, I have no background in sales. John asked me to join his team because he wanted to spend his time on other things. He had spent a lot of time on AVS promoting Revel, JBL and other audio/video equipment based on science. I worked at the University of Illinois School of Music and taught audio in addition to being the chief engineer, not because it was part of my job, but because I like teaching people what I know about audio. I'm really happy I got the opportunity to work with John. I just got to go to Harman and meet Dr. Toole, Kevin Voecks and many of the principal design engineers. I was like a kid in a candy store, I got to hear some of the most amazing systems I have ever heard. I'm a life long leaner, still reading and trying to learn everything in Dr. Toole's book.

I'm here to help people learn if I can. If someone wants to work with The Screening Room to put together a nice audio or home theater system, I'm happy to help facilitate that. It is not my primary interest in posting here. I retired from the U of I in 2010. I spend time here most every day because I enjoy talking about audio/video and home theater. I miss being able to work in recording studios and doing live sound mixing. At age 65, I think I have done enough of that. It's hard work, believe it or not. Very demanding both physically and mentally. I can post here from the comfort of my home, take breaks, listen to music, cook dinner and drink good wine.
From one salesman to another: Bravo for name dropping and pimping the company several times in that post for absolutely no reason.

In no way, shape, or form did anyone ask who you work for, the name of the company you sell speakers for, nor your resume - which is in no way relevant to what MMiles was talking to you about. The same goes for the article you posted. I don't see how it's relevant to this thread: Did it answer the equipment specific questions in the posts above yours, or further specific conversation in relation to the thread? Not really.

Look, it's well established and well known that you sell speakers by posting on AVS and this is part of your marketing efforts. Believe it or not, as a fellow Harman dealer, I have absolutely no problem with it. But, the article you posted has little to no specific relevance to this thread. It's blatantly just way to throw another lure out into the pond. Give it a rest for a thread or two... please. Or, if this article is this important that you feel the information has to get.out there, by all means start a separate thread for it. My goodness.

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post #488 of 507 Old 08-07-2019, 07:28 AM
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Since my reason for posting this information seems to have been been misunderstood, my motivation called into question and I have offended a few people, I deleted the post from the other threads. When I have time, I'll start a new thread because I feel it's something some people on AVS would like to know about.

As I said, I post information because I enjoy sharing it and often learn from others in the process. I forget how many people are skeptics and cynics.

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post #489 of 507 Old 08-07-2019, 09:55 AM
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Personally, I think an article about how films are actually mixed and the differences between the requirements of home theater and theatrical mixes is highly pertinent to this thread. After all, much of the ongoing development of the SDP75 is based upon feedback that comes directly from Dr. Toole and the research he discusses in the article. Solving "Audio Circle of Confusion" problems is a goal of Harman and of Dr. Toole, and part of the product development at Harman on both sides - consumer and professional is devoted to solving that MAJOR problem in sound reproduction. It's directly pertinent, since the concepts described in the article directly feed the ongoing development of the SDP75 (X Curve issues, calibrating for different targets depending on the mix, something the SDP75 allows you to do). This is all discussed during the Harman Home Theater Calibration Academys - it's part of the DNA of this product.

What's getting lost here is the value that having genuine relationships and friendships with some of the best minds in the industry (Toole, Olive, Voecks, etc) can bring those kinds of unique perspectives.
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post #490 of 507 Old 08-07-2019, 01:09 PM
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Personally, I think an article about how films are actually mixed and the differences between the requirements of home theater and theatrical mixes is highly pertinent to this thread. After all, much of the ongoing development of the SDP75 is based upon feedback that comes directly from Dr. Toole and the research he discusses in the article. Solving "Audio Circle of Confusion" problems is a goal of Harman and of Dr. Toole, and part of the product development at Harman on both sides - consumer and professional is devoted to solving that MAJOR problem in sound reproduction. It's directly pertinent, since the concepts described in the article directly feed the ongoing development of the SDP75 (X Curve issues, calibrating for different targets depending on the mix, something the SDP75 allows you to do). This is all discussed during the Harman Home Theater Calibration Academys - it's part of the DNA of this product.

What's getting lost here is the value that having genuine relationships and friendships with some of the best minds in the industry (Toole, Olive, Voecks, etc) can bring those kinds of unique perspectives.
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It doesn't take much to offend anyone these days! HA!

Though both of you guys are "The Screening Room", its not like Rex's post was trying to sell product or services. I agree its good information in a thread regarding high end surround processing! The fact that your signatures state "The Screening Room" is obviously permitted by AVS Forum so that should not be an issue.
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post #491 of 507 Old 08-07-2019, 03:01 PM
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It doesn't take much to offend anyone these days! HA!

Though both of you guys are "The Screening Room", its not like Rex's post was trying to sell product or services. I agree its good information in a thread regarding high end surround processing! The fact that your signatures state "The Screening Room" is obviously permitted by AVS Forum so that should not be an issue.
I was always under the impression that company links in signatures or other commercial advertising was frowned upon by AVS. Perhaps that was prior to VerticalScope taking ownership though.

I appreciated the link to the article, although I do agree that it should have been in a new thread. I've had a few conversations with Dr. Toole in the past about the state of the recording industry, and the calibration process in commercial cinemas, as I've had interest in offering my calibration services, but as he often notes, it is a very stubborn and closed industry at times, and inertia is a hard thing to overcome. I have always been impressed by his passion and enthusiasm for the subject, and his continuing efforts to create awareness of the problems and hopefully instigate some changes.

If a new thread is created, I'll delete this post and comment there, or ask the mods to move my post.
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post #492 of 507 Old 08-07-2019, 06:23 PM
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FWIW, as some of you here know, we are known for holding large scale, controlled projector and speaker shootouts, and have always cleared all of these events with Vertical Scope before posting about them.

I hope most here find what Rex and I post of real intellectual value. For example, when we did our big JBL M2 vs. Revel Salon2 speaker shootout, we had direct and constant input from Dr. Toole on how to properly set up and control the conditions of a scientifically valid listening test. Some might notice that Dr. Toole himself contributed SUBSTANTIALLY to that thread.

To me, all this is of tremendous objective value to Forum members since it served to illustrate exactly how valid speaker comparisons should be done. Similarly, when we did our projector shootout, we flew in @Kris Deering to calibrate all the projectors, and to make sure we had a level playing field. By contributing this kind of rigorous, "as-scientifically-controlled-as-we-can-make-it" information to the Forum, we happen to think everyone benefits. And, because we always clear our events with the Forum beforehand, we make sure we are operating in an ethical manner within their guidelines.

So, for us it's always a matter of clearing things with the Forum before-hand, and trying to bring the best science-based, objective information we can to the AVS Forum. Rex and I happen to feel that we cannot possibly talk about the work of Toole and Olive enough, because the importance of their work in furthering the science of sound reproduction cannot be overstated. Hence the post here, as it is directly pertinent to the processing developed for the SDP75 (the development of the Harman target curve used in the 75, the ability to overcome X-Curve problems, etc). Trinnov and JBL also occupy a very real space in the professional film post-production space, so there is a genuine, valid overlap.

We are also proud of the fact that we have developed genuine relationships with the engineers and scientists at the forefront of the field, and when someone asks a question we are unable to answer authoritatively, we are able to go through our virtual Rolodex to get an authoritative answer.

So, it's interesting that in accusing Rex of posting something off topic (which it clearly isn't), we have taken the thread even further off topic.

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post #493 of 507 Old 08-07-2019, 06:25 PM
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And, FWIW, I am in pre-production on a feature film, so rarely ever visit the Forum anymore. However, I did feel like Rex was being unfairly piled upon (not that Rex can't defend himself, lol).

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post #494 of 507 Old 08-07-2019, 06:32 PM
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^^^

I’m sorry but most of it is cut and paste from others. But that is just me however I doubt it.

Post 487 stared “just another lure in the pond”.

Geez John Rex even posted product release for the Lexicon MC10 in a JBL SDP75 thread. Why?

Awareness, exposure or just a zeal for the hobby?

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post #495 of 507 Old 08-07-2019, 06:42 PM
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^^^

I’m sorry but most of it is cut and paste from others. But that is just me however I doubt it.

Post 487 stared “just another lure in the pond”.

Geez John Rex even posted product release for the Lexicon MC10 in a JBL SDP75 thread. Why?

Awareness, exposure or just a zeal for the hobby?
??? Not following "lure in the pond..." That was stated by someone else, not Rex. Honestly, not following.

What do you mean, cut and paste from others...?

Yes, I would sincerely say awareness as the primary motivating factor. You don't think there are some trying to evaluate the value proposition of the SDP75 vs. other Harman processors? And that they may be interested to know that some of the R&D (again, motivated by the work of Toole and Olive) ended up in the processing of the MC10?

Mike, honestly, I'm not following you. Both Rex and I have a genuine relationship with Floyd and others at Harman. Are you suggesting that it's just a pose?

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post #496 of 507 Old 08-07-2019, 07:23 PM
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I think it was another lure in the pond...

Again why post a Lexicon product write up in a JBL processor thread? See post 84.

It has nothing to do with the SDP75 nor the banter and questions that are product/thread specific. Now it does let folks know about an alternative at a 1/3 the cost. Anyone know where I can get a deal on one of those MC10?

As far the link for the round table discussion I thought it was interesting. Forgive me would it been posted if Dr. Toole was not a participant? Once again if it is a matter of intellectual contribution why only post it in threads of which are the product you sell. I do admire the fact Rex deleted the post possibly begrudgingly. A separate thread would have been better as it was stated above by Adam.

John I’m glad you have friends in high places. One can also think it would be good for business from time to time.

As far as posting and sharing information well I’m all for it. It’s great you can cut and paste from docs from Kevin, Sean and Dr. Toole in addition to the spinograhs from Revel.

Many of these post, IMHO, are attempts to build credibility, expertise and image with a sales bias. Though not a direct solicitation (that would break the rules) it is well known you are available to assist. I’m sure you remember our phone calls a few years ago.

At this time I will no longer post in this thread on this touchy subject and the politics that it creates. I apologize for those I offended and getting the thread derailed. Much like Popeye “I am what I am”

Good evening everyone.

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post #497 of 507 Old 08-08-2019, 12:33 AM
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post #498 of 507 Old 08-08-2019, 06:03 AM
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I’ve been following the Trinnov Alt thread and just became aware of this one. I did a quick skim but is there a quick place to see the differences between these two kits? I assume the JbL is based on the 32 not the Alt16 but what other differences if any?



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post #499 of 507 Old 08-08-2019, 12:36 PM
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I think it was another lure in the pond...

Again why post a Lexicon product write up in a JBL processor thread? See post 84.

It has nothing to do with the SDP75 nor the banter and questions that are product/thread specific. Now it does let folks know about an alternative at a 1/3 the cost. Anyone know where I can get a deal on one of those MC10?

As far the link for the round table discussion I thought it was interesting. Forgive me would it been posted if Dr. Toole was not a participant? Once again if it is a matter of intellectual contribution why only post it in threads of which are the product you sell. I do admire the fact Rex deleted the post possibly begrudgingly. A separate thread would have been better as it was stated above by Adam.

John I’m glad you have friends in high places. One can also think it would be good for business from time to time.

As far as posting and sharing information well I’m all for it. It’s great you can cut and paste from docs from Kevin, Sean and Dr. Toole in addition to the spinograhs from Revel.

Many of these post, IMHO, are attempts to build credibility, expertise and image with a sales bias. Though not a direct solicitation (that would break the rules) it is well known you are available to assist. I’m sure you remember our phone calls a few years ago.

At this time I will no longer post in this thread on this touchy subject and the politics that it creates. I apologize for those I offended and getting the thread derailed. Much like Popeye “I am what I am”

Good evening everyone.
Mike, I sent you a PM. I don't think this kind of back and forth belongs on the Forum at all. And I do remember our phone calls, which is why this is all mystifying. You throw out a bunch of insinuations, which does nothing to further genuine discussion. Yet of course responding to them just drags us further down into the mud, and my responding to them would actually break Forum rules. You know this, so I feel a little sense of unfairness here where you can throw out insinuations and assertions knowing I can't respond to them.

I happen to genuinely believe that all the information Rex and I have shared is of real value. Based on the overwhelming response we've received - from other posters as well as directly from Dr. Toole, Tim Gladwin, Kevin Voecks and others, plus the people that literally come up to us at RMAF and CEDIA to express appreciation for the information we share / questions we answer, I'd say we are bringing information of real value to the Forum. The M2 vs Salon2 shootout thread we did was literally one of the fastest growing and most read threads in the history of the Forum, and get Dr. Toole directly involved contributing genuine scientific information based on over 40 years of research starting at the Canadian NRC. I am to this day very proud of that thread, and the fact that it brought real visibility to the amazing accomplishments of Toole and Olive.

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post #500 of 507 Old 08-08-2019, 12:49 PM
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I’ve been following the Trinnov Alt thread and just became aware of this one. I did a quick skim but is there a quick place to see the differences between these two kits? I assume the JbL is based on the 32 not the Alt16 but what other differences if any?
Here you go:

The JBL SDP-75 is based on the Altitude32. It comes in the same 16, 24 and 32 channel configurations as the Altitude, with the same upgrade ability options, and hits the same price point.

Here are the differences:

The JBL version adds the ability to load anechoic data for all JBL Synthesis and Revel loudspeakers. Much like the DSP / EQ built into the dedicated amps for active speakers like the JBL M2 and LSR7 series, this anechoic data serves to help tweak the already excellent frequency response of Harman speakers above and beyond their already excellent "passive" performance.

The JBL version uses the Toole / Olive developed room target curve, based again on the 40 + years of research undertaken by Drs. Toole and Olive described above, correlating anechoic speaker measurements with listener preference. Trinnov uses a different target curve.

The JBL version deletes the Trinnov re-mapping feature.

The JBL version calibration process has some slightly different approaches to how to implement room correction, again, based on Harman research / tweaking.

Both are excellent products, the JBL version makes the most sense if you are going to go with Harman speakers. The Trinnov version makes more sense if you are going with another brand of speakers.

Hope this information is valuable. And WOW! It even shows the relevance of the article Rex linked to earlier in this thread.

John Schuermann
The Screening Room Home Theater Sales and Design
JS Music and Sound Film Scoring and Sound Design

Last edited by John Schuermann; 08-08-2019 at 01:19 PM.
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post #501 of 507 Old 08-08-2019, 05:59 PM
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Here you go:

The JBL SDP-75 is based on the Altitude32. It comes in the same 16, 24 and 32 channel configurations as the Altitude, with the same upgrade ability options, and hits the same price point.

Here are the differences:

The JBL version adds the ability to load anechoic data for all JBL Synthesis and Revel loudspeakers. Much like the DSP / EQ built into the dedicated amps for active speakers like the JBL M2 and LSR7 series, this anechoic data serves to help tweak the already excellent frequency response of Harman speakers above and beyond their already excellent "passive" performance.

The JBL version uses the Toole / Olive developed room target curve, based again on the 40 + years of research undertaken by Drs. Toole and Olive described above, correlating anechoic speaker measurements with listener preference. Trinnov uses a different target curve.

The JBL version deletes the Trinnov re-mapping feature.

The JBL version calibration process has some slightly different approaches to how to implement room correction, again, based on Harman research / tweaking.

Both are excellent products, the JBL version makes the most sense if you are going to go with Harman speakers. The Trinnov version makes more sense if you are going with another brand of speakers.

Hope this information is valuable. And WOW! It even shows the relevance of the article Rex linked to earlier in this thread.
The JBL version also removes the PEQ ability available in the Altitude.

And the last sentence in your post is how/why the forum bickering gets fed. If you choose to remove it, I will edit this post as well.

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post #502 of 507 Old 08-08-2019, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by appelz View Post
The JBL version also removes the PEQ ability available in the Altitude.

And the last sentence in your post is how/why the forum bickering gets fed. If you choose to remove it, I will edit this post as well.
Nah. Was meant in good humor. Just had an open, honest long chat with someone involved with the back and forth here and I think we are all good
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post #503 of 507 Old 08-08-2019, 06:12 PM
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Nah. Was meant in good humor. Just had an open, honest long chat with someone involved with the back and forth here and I think we are all good
Ah, good. The context of private jokes usually translates poorly in text.
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post #504 of 507 Old 08-08-2019, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by appelz View Post
The JBL version also removes the PEQ ability available in the Altitude.
Hi Adam:

I am not 100 percent sure of the above....
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post #505 of 507 Old 08-08-2019, 06:21 PM
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Hi Adam:

I am not 100 percent sure of the above....
Definitely was not available in the ones I have calibrated. There is a dropdown menu to select the filters provided by JBL, but not the PEQ. There may be a hack or workaround that JBL has available, but it isn't public, and they haven't shared it with *this* Master ARCOS calibrator.
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post #506 of 507 Old 08-09-2019, 05:15 AM
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Thanks for the responses on differences.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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post #507 of 507 Old 08-11-2019, 03:24 PM
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Hi Dartw,

You can connect the I-tech amp to the SDP-75 digitally. 1x110ohm XLR cable will suffice for both speakers, I had mine built by Markertek and they work just fine. Everything should be implemented digitally with the DA conversion done by the amp then sent to the speakers. As for the crossovers you could implement it with the SDP, or have the amp. I would let the amp implement the filters this way you need only 1 digital channel per M2.

The custom curves are only for speakers like the 705/708i (not the P), M2. This enables you to choose any amp you want to power the speakers, the downside is that you would need 2 output channels per speaker from the SDP.

Right now the limit for the Trinnov and SDP is either 16 digital channels and no analog or 8 digital channels and up to 24 analog ( depending on how many channels you bought)

Hope this helps!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dartw View Post
Is this solution for extending number of channels available for the JBL version of this beast?

https://www.trinnov.com/altitude-48ext/
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Originally Posted by Curt_Trinnov View Post
Yes. Sdp-75 users will be able to use the Trinnov 48ext to add more channels.

Cheers, Curt
Curt

With the Trinnov 48ext connected to the Sdp-75 how many digital channels out is a availible? My understanding is that it is possible to add 2 48ext units if that is correct how many digital channels out will that give in total?

Kind regards
Dartw
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