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post #121 of 545 Old 02-25-2016, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
For what it's worth, most films are mixed 48/16 or 48/24. Going 24 bit certainly has advantages when mixing, but for actual final reproduction 16 bit works just fine.
What about with volume control being done digitally? 48/16 is basically CD quality. That's normally output with the full 16bits of dynamic range, and then analog volume control adjusts it down (or up in some cases). If you have to down convert 24bit -> 16bits for HDCP, then do digital volume control within those 16 bits, does it start to impact dynamic range?

 

 

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post #122 of 545 Old 02-26-2016, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rabident View Post
What about with volume control being done digitally? 48/16 is basically CD quality. That's normally output with the full 16bits of dynamic range, and then analog volume control adjusts it down (or up in some cases). If you have to down convert 24bit -> 16bits for HDCP, then do digital volume control within those 16 bits, does it start to impact dynamic range?
All processing, including the volume control, is done at 64 bit floating point resolution. The output is 24 bits.

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post #123 of 545 Old 02-26-2016, 04:55 PM
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Curt, is that what you are going to be doing for Blulink, or what Trinnov is doing now with the AES digital out for HDCP protected sources?

 

 

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post #124 of 545 Old 02-29-2016, 04:31 PM
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Update on SDP75:

16 channel: $25,000 MSRP
32 channel: $33,000 MSRP

Blu-link capability approximately 9 months out after initial SDP-75 release.
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post #125 of 545 Old 03-01-2016, 05:27 AM
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Question

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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
Update on SDP75:

Blu-link capability approximately 9 months out after initial SDP-75 release.
Do you have any information on whether the initial SDP-75 will have the hardware needed for Blu-link? Wondering if the 9 months wait is only for firmware or if we actually need to hold off the purchase in the wait for newer hardware?
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post #126 of 545 Old 03-02-2016, 08:37 PM
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Do you have any information on whether the initial SDP-75 will have the hardware needed for Blu-link? Wondering if the 9 months wait is only for firmware or if we actually need to hold off the purchase in the wait for newer hardware?
I'm pretty sure that the initial SDP75 will NOT have the Blu-link hardware, but stay tuned here for more info as it comes in

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post #127 of 545 Old 01-31-2017, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nielsen View Post
Do you have any information on whether the initial SDP-75 will have the hardware needed for Blu-link? Wondering if the 9 months wait is only for firmware or if we actually need to hold off the purchase in the wait for newer hardware?
I'm pretty sure that the initial SDP75 will NOT have the Blu-link hardware, but stay tuned here for more info as it comes in
Any update on the SDP75 having built-in Blu-link?
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post #128 of 545 Old 02-02-2017, 04:56 AM
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Any update on the SDP75 having built-in Blu-link?
Last I heard this is on hold due to DRM concerns. Hope that gets worked out.
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post #129 of 545 Old 04-20-2017, 09:41 AM
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OK - here we go - some new, very solid info on the JBL SDP75. I posted this in the dedicated Synthesis thread on the Speaker Forums as well - here's the direct link, if you want to join in there:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...l#post52385649

Here is some tantalizing new info about the JBL SDP-75 surround processor, based on a conversation I just had with those “in the know” at Harman. I can honestly say I am even more excited about this piece than I was previously. There are many, many impressive features and true performance upgrades over competing surround processors, so much more that I can now say that I genuinely feel that the SDP-75 also represents a tremendous value (yes, even at its price point). The SDP75 is so much more than just a surround processor with a higher channel count – it’s a true audiophile product with amazing versatility.

To get right to it:

The SDP75 - along with its cousin, the Trinnov Altitude - is the ONLY surround processor on the market that does not down-convert or re-sample incoming bitstreams – all processing is handled at the native incoming resolution / sample rate, resulting in higher transparency and much higher fidelity.

The SDP75 has Harman’s NEW target curves loaded in, based on the latest research undertaken by Dr. Toole and Dr. Sean Olive’s team—part of the amazing brain trust at Harman. These represent a significant improvement over the previous Synthesis target curves.

New Harman targets described as a “night and day” improvement over previous ARCOS / Synthesis targets during blind listening tests (which is truly impressive, since even the previous ARCOS EQ / targets were scientifically demonstrated to be considerably superior to competing systems during blind listening tests).

The SDP75 is capable of being calibrated using the Trinnov Optimizer microphone and software, and processed using Harman’s own targets and algorithm operation tweaks (in other words, they are using the power of the Optimizer in a different manner than Trinnov). A JBL SDEC Is no longer necessary – all processing can be accomplished inside the SDP75 at the native sampling rate and without additional A-D and D-A conversions, and at a cost savings of $8,000 to $16,000, depending on the number of channels. A calibration accomplished in this manner can be fully Synthesis certified when done by a JBL Synthesis or approved technician.

Almost any conceivable JBL Synthesis or Revel speaker configuration is available as a “preset” in the SDP75, allowing for speakers to be re-purposed for optimum performance no matter which immersive audio codec is chosen (Dolby Atmos, Auro3D, DTS:X). The SDP-75 can apply delays and volume level adjustments to “arrayed” speakers in non-native formats so that all speakers in a system can be employed to cover different format recommended speaker layouts. For example, the SDP75 will take advantage of, say, a 24 channel speaker layout to “map” appropriate sounds to each speaker no matter if the incoming source is Atmos, Auro3D, or DTS:X. The sound can be intelligently re-routed to the appropriate speakers by applying delays and level adjustments for true immersive audio no matter the input codec.

The SDP75 is available in 16, 24 and 32 channel configurations. To determine which is the right model for you, simply add up the number of speakers and subwoofers you will need / want in your system (or have a JBL Synthesis dealer work all that up for you).

Coming ability to lead in detailed anechoic data for each and every JBL Synthesis / Revel speaker model, for every channel (this will also allow the SDP-75 to handle proper EQ / processing for such speakers as the JBL M2 / LSR7 series without special amps or outboard processing)

Pricing:

SDP75-16 channels: $23,500
SDP75-24 channels: $28,000 (shipping in May)
SDP75-32 channels: $31,500

Hoping to have a demo unit in our showroom soon - time to start saving up!
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post #130 of 545 Old 04-20-2017, 09:56 AM
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Of course the Altitude32 does this as well.
You are of course correct. I will change my post.

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post #131 of 545 Old 04-20-2017, 12:07 PM
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Thanks for the update on this SSP. Exciting times for JBL for sure.
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post #132 of 545 Old 04-20-2017, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
OK - here we go - some new, very solid info on the JBL SDP75. I posted this in the dedicated Synthesis thread on the Speaker Forums as well - here's the direct link, if you want to join in there:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...l#post52385649

Here is some tantalizing new info about the JBL SDP-75 surround processor, based on a conversation I just had with those “in the know” at Harman. I can honestly say I am even more excited about this piece than I was previously. There are many, many impressive features and true performance upgrades over competing surround processors, so much more that I can now say that I genuinely feel that the SDP-75 also represents a tremendous value (yes, even at its price point). The SDP75 is so much more than just a surround processor with a higher channel count – it’s a true audiophile product with amazing versatility.

To get right to it:

The SDP75 - along with its cousin, the Trinnov Altitude - is the ONLY surround processor on the market that does not down-convert or re-sample incoming bitstreams – all processing is handled at the native incoming resolution / sample rate, resulting in higher transparency and much higher fidelity.

The SDP75 has Harman’s NEW target curves loaded in, based on the latest research undertaken by Dr. Toole and Dr. Sean Olive’s team—part of the amazing brain trust at Harman. These represent a significant improvement over the previous Synthesis target curves.

New Harman targets described as a “night and day” improvement over previous ARCOS / Synthesis targets during blind listening tests (which is truly impressive, since even the previous ARCOS EQ / targets were scientifically demonstrated to be considerably superior to competing systems during blind listening tests).

The SDP75 is capable of being calibrated using the Trinnov Optimizer microphone and software, and processed using Harman’s own targets and algorithm operation tweaks (in other words, they are using the power of the Optimizer in a different manner than Trinnov). A JBL SDEC Is no longer necessary – all processing can be accomplished inside the SDP75 at the native sampling rate and without additional A-D and D-A conversions, and at a cost savings of $8,000 to $16,000, depending on the number of channels. A calibration accomplished in this manner can be fully Synthesis certified when done by a JBL Synthesis or approved technician.

Almost any conceivable JBL Synthesis or Revel speaker configuration is available as a “preset” in the SDP75, allowing for speakers to be re-purposed for optimum performance no matter which immersive audio codec is chosen (Dolby Atmos, Auro3D, DTS:X). The SDP-75 can apply delays and volume level adjustments to “arrayed” speakers in non-native formats so that all speakers in a system can be employed to cover different format recommended speaker layouts. For example, the SDP75 will take advantage of, say, a 24 channel speaker layout to “map” appropriate sounds to each speaker no matter if the incoming source is Atmos, Auro3D, or DTS:X. The sound can be intelligently re-routed to the appropriate speakers by applying delays and level adjustments for true immersive audio no matter the input codec.

The SDP75 is available in 16, 24 and 32 channel configurations. To determine which is the right model for you, simply add up the number of speakers and subwoofers you will need / want in your system (or have a JBL Synthesis dealer work all that up for you).

Coming ability to lead in detailed anechoic data for each and every JBL Synthesis / Revel speaker model, for every channel (this will also allow the SDP-75 to handle proper EQ / processing for such speakers as the JBL M2 / LSR7 series without special amps or outboard processing)

Pricing:

SDP75-16 channels: $23,500
SDP75-24 channels: $28,000 (shipping in May)
SDP75-32 channels: $31,500

Hoping to have a demo unit in our showroom soon - time to start saving up!
This is great info, but certainly surprising. I just finished (within the last couple weeks) a huge Synthesis upgrade with M2 LCR speaker and all SCL3 / SCL4 In-wall / In-ceiling speakers (14 total) and the SDP75 with 2- SDA4600 and 2-SDA8300 amps. 11.4.6 setup.

I was told I had to use the SDEC to be Synthesis certified, and that JBL only calibrated with the SDEC not the Trinnov. I spent a fair amount of time questions them on the advantage of stacking the SDEC on top of the Trinnov, when the Trinnov already has so much capability.

Basically I was just told it was better with the SDEC.

Im glad to see them move away from the SDEC, because it doesn't seem necessary at all. But they desperately need to get the "BLU-LINK" output from the Trinnov to work, as that would simplify the system wiring tremendously.

Last edited by ccool96; 04-20-2017 at 04:34 PM.
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post #133 of 545 Old 04-20-2017, 10:05 PM
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This is great info, but certainly surprising. I just finished (within the last couple weeks) a huge Synthesis upgrade with M2 LCR speaker and all SCL3 / SCL4 In-wall / In-ceiling speakers (14 total) and the SDP75 with 2- SDA4600 and 2-SDA8300 amps. 11.4.6 setup.

I was told I had to use the SDEC to be Synthesis certified, and that JBL only calibrated with the SDEC not the Trinnov. I spent a fair amount of time questions them on the advantage of stacking the SDEC on top of the Trinnov, when the Trinnov already has so much capability.

Basically I was just told it was better with the SDEC.

Im glad to see them move away from the SDEC, because it doesn't seem necessary at all. But they desperately need to get the "BLU-LINK" output from the Trinnov to work, as that would simplify the system wiring tremendously.
I was surprised too - got all this info yesterday. The SDEC still has some functionality that is not yet built into the SDP75.

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post #134 of 545 Old 04-21-2017, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
OK - here we go - some new, very solid info on the JBL SDP75. I posted this in the dedicated Synthesis thread on the Speaker Forums as well - here's the direct link, if you want to join in there:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...l#post52385649
As one of a handful of Master ARCOS calibrators, I am pretty excited about having ARCOS/SFM native to the SDP75.

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post #135 of 545 Old 04-21-2017, 09:29 AM
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I am pretty excited about having ARCOS/SFM native to the SDP75.
Breaking some news? SFM wasn't mentioned in the new info post.

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post #136 of 545 Old 04-21-2017, 09:48 AM
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Breaking some news? SFM wasn't mentioned in the new info post.
I always considered ARCOS to be the Wizard/GUI overlay that manages the process of calibration. That process being speaker testing/evaluation, EQ, Level, Delay, SFM, etc to maximize quality across a broader listening area. ARCOS wouldn't be ARCOS without SFM, so making the assumption that if the SDP75 will have ARCOS, then it's the whole package.

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Last edited by appelz; 04-21-2017 at 09:53 AM.
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post #137 of 545 Old 04-21-2017, 09:55 AM
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ARCOS wouldn't be ARCOS without SFM, so making the assumption that if the DSP75 will have ARCOS, then it's the whole package.
True. And IF the goal is to phase out SDECs, then all the features should migrate over (including their patented sub/speaker blending algorithm).

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post #138 of 545 Old 04-21-2017, 10:42 AM
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Not everyone who wants to go Synthesis will want an SDP75, so the SDEC isn't going away anytime soon. SFM is not yet in the 75, but will be fairly soon (and of course it is already part of the ARCOS / SDEC configuration).

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post #139 of 545 Old 04-21-2017, 02:44 PM
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JBL Synthesis SDP-75

From what I understand we will see some new processors for the Synthesis line by Lexicon. They will be far less expensive than the Trinnov, so I bet the SDEC will stay around for these setups as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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post #140 of 545 Old 04-21-2017, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
Coming ability to lead in detailed anechoic data for each and every JBL Synthesis / Revel speaker model, for every channel (this will also allow the SDP-75 to handle proper EQ / processing for such speakers as the JBL M2 / LSR7 series without special amps or outboard processing)
So does this mean a Synthesis system can (or even should) be done without the SDA 4600 and 8300 amps? Those amps either take Blu-link input from the SDEC or impose an AD/DA conversion on their analog inputs in order to apply their built in DSP (which doesn't actually get used).

If the SDP75 takes over the role of the SDEC, but lacks Blu-link output to the amps... that just moves SRC & AD/DA to the amps.

Is Synthesis going to take a page out of Lex's book and offer trade ins on SDEC for SDP75 ?

Exciting news for sure. And great to see JBL moving forward again. But it's a bit of a bitter pill for those of us that recently bought into M2 Synthsis system and were told we had to buy the SDEC.

 

 

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post #141 of 545 Old 04-21-2017, 06:40 PM
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Im glad to see them move away from the SDEC, because it doesn't seem necessary at all. But they desperately need to get the "BLU-LINK" output from the Trinnov to work, as that would simplify the system wiring tremendously.
I don't have any inside info, but I suspect part of the reason for integrating the SDEC into the Trinnov is to get around the DRM restrictions. The DRM rules are different if everything is in one box. If that's the case, it could mean no Blulink output on the way for SDP75 / Altitude.

 

 

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From what I understand we will see some new processors for the Synthesis line by Lexicon.
Do tell...

Please

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post #143 of 545 Old 04-22-2017, 09:19 PM
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Sounds like a real nice piece of kit. Very exciting.

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post #144 of 545 Old 04-24-2017, 04:15 PM
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Answers coming to your questions - probably another day or two. Harman is just getting back and settled from Axpona...

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post #145 of 545 Old 04-26-2017, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
From what I understand we will see some new processors for the Synthesis line by Lexicon. They will be far less expensive than the Trinnov, so I bet the SDEC will stay around for these setups as well. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Let's hope so lower than 10K?
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Let's hope so lower than 10K?
To be honest, I have heard nothing.

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post #147 of 545 Old 04-26-2017, 05:17 PM
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OK, here we go - answers to your SDP75 questions straight from Kevin Voecks, Acoustic Technologies Manager at HARMAN Luxury Audio Group. He's who has been essentially in charge of SDP75 development, so this comes from the top . Some nice surprises here, especially for enthusiasts and for current SDP75 owners:

Hello,

I would like to address the numerous questions that have come up regarding the JBL SDP-75 Surround Processor. John Schuermann has been fantastic about answering questions, and I am delighted and grateful that he is willing to do so. I believe this post will answer the questions that have been posted, and as new questions come up, John and I will do our best to provide timely and accurate information.

The JBL Synthesis ARCOS EQ system has long been acknowledged as a superb EQ system. A few years back, a methodical comparison was made of EQ systems, and most were indeed worse than no EQ. The ARCOS system was clearly superior to the competitors.

Now that we have partnered with Trinnov, we can make use of their state of-the-art platform, which we have adapted and optimized as part of an eco-system for use with JBL Synthesis and Revel loudspeakers in the JBL SDP-75. I could not be more enthusiastic about this change, as it provides far greater flexibility, eliminates unnecessary A-D and D-A converters, saves from $8,000 to $16,000 (depending on the channel count), and sounds superior—utilizing better electronics and the benefit of some of our latest research. Customers who purchased an SDP-75 and wish to utilize the new internal Optimizer software can get a free update to the Optimizer EQ, and can obtain a refund for the SDECs upon request.

SDP-75s now incorporate a new target curve that is a very significant improvement over the previous ARCOS target, with much-improved subwoofer-to-mains integration, apparently much-deeper and tighter bass, and much-smoother high frequencies in blind tests. It results in one of those wonderful “I feel like I am listening to this for the first time” experiences. We have also provided settings, including “advanced settings” that meet our requirements for room EQ, based on our internal research and the experience gained from many ARCOS installations. Together, the result is superb. An alternative target curve and Optimizer configuration provides the ability to equalize only below 400 Hz for two-channel systems, of for those who are fortunate enough to have a system composed of entirely on-axis (or nearly so) speakers.

We are doing research now that will lead to a drop-down selection of JBL Synthesis and Revel speakers, which allows us to provide equalization that cannot be achieved through in-room measurements. I will be able to provide a better time estimate of its availability soon. It will be at no cost to owners, and will provide results superior to any approach based solely on in-room measurements.

In addition, we are working on a next-generation version of Sound Field Management (SFM)! SFM has long been the only way to truly reduce seat-to-seat variations at low frequencies, and the new version “SFM2” version will offer important sonic improvements over the existing SFM system. This will be a no-charge update. I will be able to better-estimate the time of its availability soon. Note that unlike other updates to the Optimizer, SFM will require re-calibration.

Four subwoofers, which is our strongly-recommended configuration, based on Harman research, do indeed utilize four SDP-75 channels, but the savings from not using outboard SDEC equalizers far outweigh the cost of going from a 16-channel to 24-channel SDP-75, or from a 24-channel to 32-channel version. Similarly, bi-amplified speakers utilize two output channels.

We recognize that there are very advanced users who wish to tweak their installations. Therefore, we will make Trinnov 3D microphones available for purchase through our SDP-75 dealers. The settings in the Optimizer are not locked-down, and can be accessed by advanced end-users to adjust as they wish.

We have made a custom cable from Straight Wire available for those who wish to use our JBL Synthesis SDA-8300 and SDA-4600 amplifiers, which use “mini-Phoenix” input connectors. Other amplifiers can use XLR connectors for the first 16 channels, with DB-25 to XLR snakes for either all the channels, or for just the channels above 16.

The currently-shipping SDP-75s have one input and one output that can pass “4K.” The capabilities can be described as 3G, 300MHz, or 9gbps. It will support HDMI resolutions of:

-4K-24/30 Hz, 4.4.4, 8-10-Bit, BT.709;
-4K-24/30 Hz, 4.2.2,10-12 Bit, BT.709
-4K-50/60 Hz, 4.2.0, 8-Bit, BT.709

Just as with the Trinnov Altitude32, the HDMI board is field-replaceable. The forthcoming HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 boards will be supplied, when available, at no cost for the hardware. Our dealers determine the labor cost for replacing the board, which can be done in about 20 minutes. The delay is due to an issue with the silicon vendor, resulting in what we believe will be availability this summer.

Lastly, there have been some questions regarding the SDP-75 U.S. pricing. It is as follows:

SDP75-16 channels: $23,500
SDP75-24 channels: $28,000 (shipping in May)
SDP75-32 channels: $31,500

Enjoy the music and movies!

Best regards,
Kevin
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John Schuermann
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post #148 of 545 Old 04-26-2017, 06:52 PM
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OK, here we go - answers to your SDP75 .......

- SDP75-16 channels: $23,500
- SDP75-24 channels: $28,000 (shipping in May)
- SDP75-32 channels: $31,500

Enjoy the music and movies! Best regards, Kevin
Way out of my price range!
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post #149 of 545 Old 04-26-2017, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
Customers who purchased an SDP-75 and wish to utilize the new internal Optimizer software can get a free update to the Optimizer EQ, and can obtain a refund for the SDECs upon request.
Is this past tense, as in someone who bought the previous required SDP75 + SDEC combo can refund their SDEC now?

Or future tense, as in I can trade in my unopened box of SDEC as credit towards a new SDP75-24?

 

 

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post #150 of 545 Old 04-26-2017, 11:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
Update on SDP75:

16 channel: $25,000 MSRP
32 channel: $33,000 MSRP

Blu-link capability approximately 9 months out after initial SDP-75 release.
I am glad the team at JBL has been working witth Curt (obviously ) to build in such wonderful features into the Altitude Platform.

That makes perfect sence that Blulink will be out, maybe next year. I had heard theories that there were DRM issues. This is not logical in any way or form considering what happens at the cinema end where digital amps and multichannel power dacs are a known way to yield better sound.


In addition they are already giving you the main 16 channels in aes and for the adventurous they could use a thrid party aes converter to feed bluelink into the 16 mosxt important channels in the system. Generally those in front of you will benefit the most.

Congrats JBL for raising the bar. I can't believe that i would be saying this but the recent acqusition seems to be making this brand GREAT in many many ways, both doing good stuff better and acting more morally with the comopetion as well, Bravo JBL for coming into the light out of the Dark.
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Last edited by CINERAMAX; 04-27-2017 at 06:22 AM.
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