Kaleidescape Strato Movie Player 4K HDR $4,500 - Page 151 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4501 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 07:40 AM
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I have TDS Gigabit and my Strato speeds are along the lines of what's being posted here. For a 2 hour 4K movie, it takes about an hour to an hour and twenty minutes on average.
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post #4502 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 08:10 AM
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Unless purposely diminished, the Strato S and Terra should see the same download speeds. Even at 400 mbps, a Strato drive would be bored waiting for data. The gating factors should only be internet bandwidth service, network utilization, or Kscape server farm bottlenecks - not Strato vs Terra (again, unless they crippled it.)

I mean, 100 vs 400 mbps between a Strato and Terra on the same network? That seems inexplicable to me. The RAID performance of the Terra matters with handling multiple simultaenous streams in your home, and really has no benefit for single file write performance given the comparative turtle pace of WAN downloads compared to local SATA drive write speeds.

UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
Sony VPL-VW5000es • Panamorph Paladin DCR • Trinnov Altitude 16 • Crown DCIn amplifiers • JBL M2 (LCR-LW-RW) • JBL S2S-EX subwoofers x2 • JBL SCL-4 (side/rear surrounds) • JBL SCS12 (x4) SCS8 (x2) TH/RH/TM • Lumagen Radiance Pro • Panasonic UB820 • Apple TV 4k • Synology RAID (45 TB total storage) • RTI control system
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post #4503 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Unless purposely diminished, the Strato S and Terra should see the same download speeds. Even at 400 mbps, a Strato drive would be bored waiting for data. The gating factors should only be internet bandwidth service, network utilization, or Kscape server farm bottlenecks - not Strato vs Terra (again, unless they crippled it.)

I mean, 100 vs 400 mbps between a Strato and Terra on the same network? That seems inexplicable to me. The RAID performance of the Terra matters with handling multiple simultaenous streams in your home, and really has no benefit for single file write performance given the comparative turtle pace of WAN downloads compared to local SATA drive write speeds.
For reasons I can't explain either, when my Strato was running by itself, my download speeds ran at about 50-60 Mbps. After I added my Terra in January 2018, though, my download speeds increased to ~180 Mbps and have stayed there. The result has been that I can download a 4k film in a little over an hour and lower resolution ones in significantly less time than that.. Note, however, that using the Kscape system while a download is going on, slows the download down dramatically.

HT setup: Sony 75XBR X940D UHD HDR TV; Kaleidescape Strato Movie Server 6 TB and Terra Server 24 TB; Yamaha RX-A3060 AV receiver; Sonamp 2-1 2channel 100W power amp; Crestron Control System; 2 Rythmik FV18 subwoofers, 6 Hsu HB-1 Bookshelf speakers, 1 Hsu HC-1 Center speaker, 4 Focal ICW8 in-ceiling Atmos speakers; Oppo UDP-203 4K HDR BD player; Mac Mini HTPC. TiVO Bolt 1TB DVR; TiVo Premiere Elite 2 TB DVR; Roku Premiere+
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post #4504 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 09:03 AM
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I had the same disappointment with my Strato. I updated my internet to 600 Mbps right as I got my Strato specifically for super fast downloads.

I agree I see little reason it should DL so slow.


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post #4505 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 09:08 AM
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For those getting super fast speeds (400 Mpbs) - are you on or near the West Coast? I'm East Coast, and two other users I've talked to who are experiencing similar speeds are also East Coast.

KScape tech support is indicating the Terra has very little to do with download speeds, and is more a geo issue. Implying they have a single server farm (in CA I presume), and the further you are from them, well, tough sledding...

If anyone is east coast and seeing high speeds, then when they are saying is not wholly accurate...

UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
Sony VPL-VW5000es • Panamorph Paladin DCR • Trinnov Altitude 16 • Crown DCIn amplifiers • JBL M2 (LCR-LW-RW) • JBL S2S-EX subwoofers x2 • JBL SCL-4 (side/rear surrounds) • JBL SCS12 (x4) SCS8 (x2) TH/RH/TM • Lumagen Radiance Pro • Panasonic UB820 • Apple TV 4k • Synology RAID (45 TB total storage) • RTI control system
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post #4506 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
But this appears to be a severe and designed restriction - for simple downloading via a gigabit port, the base HW should not have such a gross impact unless they purposely throttled it.

That would REALLY be a **** thing for them to do...
Maybe it’s just me but I am just the opposite. I expect the $13K server to have much better capabilities than a $4.5K player. Also, the Strato when it first came out had better download speeds than the Premiere 3U server. And it still does - my stand-alone Strato gets download speeds of ~150Mbps (ISP limited) while my 3U server is limited to 80-90Mbps.

Either way, I am not sure why the outrage for the slower download speeds for the Strato since they are still very fast by historic standards for Kaleidescape.

John
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post #4507 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 09:48 AM
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In some respects, like serving more streams, yes. But for simple downloading, it shouldn’t at all. A single HD can sustain like 100 MBps writes. That’s 800+ Mbps. A single Strato device has more than enough capability to DL theoretically much faster than it does, even if you reduce expectation for authentication and maybe encryption of the data.


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post #4508 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaremyP View Post
In some respects, like serving more streams, yes. But for simple downloading, it shouldn’t at all. A single HD can sustain like 100 MBps writes. That’s 800+ Mbps. A single Strato device has more than enough capability to DL theoretically much faster than it does, even if you reduce expectation for authentication and maybe encryption of the data.


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Correct

UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
Sony VPL-VW5000es • Panamorph Paladin DCR • Trinnov Altitude 16 • Crown DCIn amplifiers • JBL M2 (LCR-LW-RW) • JBL S2S-EX subwoofers x2 • JBL SCL-4 (side/rear surrounds) • JBL SCS12 (x4) SCS8 (x2) TH/RH/TM • Lumagen Radiance Pro • Panasonic UB820 • Apple TV 4k • Synology RAID (45 TB total storage) • RTI control system
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post #4509 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtjjen View Post
Maybe it’s just me but I am just the opposite. I expect the $13K server to have much better capabilities than a $4.5K player. Also, the Strato when it first came out had better download speeds than the Premiere 3U server. And it still does - my stand-alone Strato gets download speeds of ~150Mbps (ISP limited) while my 3U server is limited to 80-90Mbps.

Either way, I am not sure why the outrage for the slower download speeds for the Strato since they are still very fast by historic standards for Kaleidescape.

John
The Terra has more capacity and the processing power for reading/distributing multiple streams for playback. It has very little to do with single file download performance (it shouldn't anyway).

KScape is opening an engineering ticket to look into this, so lets see... The support person I spoke with said he did not feel a Terra would make a difference.

jtjen - where are you located approximately? I'm trying to correlate performance to geo. Three NJ Stratos with 400 mpbs or higher connections are seeing 90-100 downloads (with Unlimited bandwidth set). gwswat, roughly in the middle of the country, is getting around 180. Not sure where naylorman32 and his 400+ Mbps is located, hopefully he can provide an approximation. Any other data points would be interesting, especially East Coasters getting high performance if they exist.

UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
Sony VPL-VW5000es • Panamorph Paladin DCR • Trinnov Altitude 16 • Crown DCIn amplifiers • JBL M2 (LCR-LW-RW) • JBL S2S-EX subwoofers x2 • JBL SCL-4 (side/rear surrounds) • JBL SCS12 (x4) SCS8 (x2) TH/RH/TM • Lumagen Radiance Pro • Panasonic UB820 • Apple TV 4k • Synology RAID (45 TB total storage) • RTI control system

Last edited by thrang; 04-02-2019 at 10:09 AM.
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post #4510 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
The Terra has more capacity and the processing power for reading/distributing multiple streams for playback. It has very little to do with single file download performance (it shouldn't anyway).

KScape is opening an engineering ticket to look into this, so lets see... The support person I spoke with said he did not feel a Terra would make a difference.

jtjen - where are you located approximately? I'm trying to correlate performance to geo. Three NJ Stratos with 400 mpbs or higher connections are seeing 90-100 downloads (with Unlimited bandwidth set). gwswat, roughly in the middle of the country, is getting around 180. Not sure where naylorman32 and his 400+ Mbps is located, hopefully he can provide an approximation. Any other data points would be interesting, especially East Coasters getting high performance if they exist.
I’m in Dallas. My ISP capped download speed is 150Mbps and that is what I hot on my Strato. Not sure what I would get with higher ISP speed.

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post #4511 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 10:31 AM
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I should add I’m in Michigan and don’t get much over 100 Mbps dl rate. Takes an hour to 1:15 or so for most UHD movies. I’ve love a 15 minute turnaround.

Should probably add too that I only have a Strato and no intent to spend the thousands on a Terra. So I dl, watch, delete. Download speed makes a bigger deal for me since I can only keep 100 or so movies locally.

That means if we have friends over, pick a movie in a whim, we need to kill an hour plus before we can watch it. 15 would rock. Enough time to get a drink, make popcorn, and be ready to press play.


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post #4512 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by JaremyP View Post
I should add I’m in Michigan and don’t get much over 100 Mbps dl rate. Takes an hour to 1:15 or so for most UHD movies. I’ve love a 15 minute turnaround.

Should probably add too that I only have a Strato and no intent to spend the thousands on a Terra. So I dl, watch, delete. Download speed makes a bigger deal for me since I can only keep 100 or so movies locally.

That means if we have friends over, pick a movie in a whim, we need to kill an hour plus before we can watch it. 15 would rock. Enough time to get a drink, make popcorn, and be ready to press play.


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What is the speed of your internet service?

UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
Sony VPL-VW5000es • Panamorph Paladin DCR • Trinnov Altitude 16 • Crown DCIn amplifiers • JBL M2 (LCR-LW-RW) • JBL S2S-EX subwoofers x2 • JBL SCL-4 (side/rear surrounds) • JBL SCS12 (x4) SCS8 (x2) TH/RH/TM • Lumagen Radiance Pro • Panasonic UB820 • Apple TV 4k • Synology RAID (45 TB total storage) • RTI control system
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post #4513 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post
How does Kscape acknowledge/incorporate existing physical UHD's and BD you already own? Or do they?

I've own about 90 UHD's, and have another 350 BD's or so, so part of my consideration of moving to the K system would be how this is handled. I'd likely not consider further if that investment essential get's tossed.
Thrang,
What changed your mind to get into Kaleidescape after this a few weeks ago ?
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post #4514 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 11:01 AM
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I don't know the design particulars of the Strato, but it is certainly within the realm of possibility that other hardware limitations affects the maximum throughput of the system (particularly the speed of the processor and topology of the associated memory). There can be many other factors, such as the operating system, network stacks, cryptography, file systems, compression algorithms, etc. that can require the processor to get involved - and it is amazing how slow that is compared to pure data transfer speeds!
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post #4515 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 11:02 AM
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Thrang,
What changed your mind to get into Kaleidescape after this a few weeks ago ?
My understanding is Movies Anywhere is a done deal, just may be later this year before it’s launched... so a bit of a leap of faith, but on fairly good word...
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UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
Sony VPL-VW5000es • Panamorph Paladin DCR • Trinnov Altitude 16 • Crown DCIn amplifiers • JBL M2 (LCR-LW-RW) • JBL S2S-EX subwoofers x2 • JBL SCL-4 (side/rear surrounds) • JBL SCS12 (x4) SCS8 (x2) TH/RH/TM • Lumagen Radiance Pro • Panasonic UB820 • Apple TV 4k • Synology RAID (45 TB total storage) • RTI control system
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post #4516 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 11:05 AM
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I don't know the design particulars of the Strato, but it is certainly within the realm of possibility that other hardware limitations affects the maximum throughput of the system (particularly the speed of the processor and topology of the associated memory). There can be many other factors, such as the operating system, network stacks, cryptography, file systems, compression algorithms, etc. that can require the processor to get involved - and it is amazing how slow that is compared to pure data transfer speeds!
Between completely different manufacturers/devices, perhaps. But Terra and Stratos share much of that, and the processing power differential is apparently inconsequential to download speeds according the KScape tech support. That horsepower and raid is for multiple playback streams in a multi-node environment.

At 7000 MSRP it would be a tough argument to say they put in a cheap motherboard or processor... Of course they could limit things arbitrarily if they wanted. But this may be more geo than anything - they need a server farm North Carolina or somewhere east cost perhaps, now or down the road...isn’t that what Akami and AWS do, among other more advanced services. Maybe they’re not profitable enough yet to expand that way...

UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
Sony VPL-VW5000es • Panamorph Paladin DCR • Trinnov Altitude 16 • Crown DCIn amplifiers • JBL M2 (LCR-LW-RW) • JBL S2S-EX subwoofers x2 • JBL SCL-4 (side/rear surrounds) • JBL SCS12 (x4) SCS8 (x2) TH/RH/TM • Lumagen Radiance Pro • Panasonic UB820 • Apple TV 4k • Synology RAID (45 TB total storage) • RTI control system

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post #4517 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 11:44 AM
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Last time I spoke to K about download speeds, they told me the Strato was limited because of its “player class chip” if I remember correctly..... SJ
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post #4518 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 12:18 PM
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Last time I spoke to K about download speeds, they told me the Strato was limited because of its “player class chip” if I remember correctly..... SJ
I certainly believe they told you this, but my dealer and I were informed the opposite when we pressed a bit more (as it really doesn't make sense, nor could they quantify it explicitly - the tech mentioned something that the Strato was "capped" at 300, and the Terra wasn't, but he seemed vague about that (and I would gladly take that capped speed). He moved onto location as the issue, but several tests I ran now (informally) show there is much more bandwidth available out to very near their HQ in California (and this is the middle of the day for the entire country, so utilization is probably at its highest). Yet now or 3 am (when Internet utilization across the US is certainly reduced), I'm seeing a consistent/capped 100-115 average.





(and there is a 110 Mbps download going on while those tests were run)

My rumination here is that a) they may not be at all clear as to the issues, limitations, and considerations regarding download performance (and in fact promote "as fast 15 minute download speeds" (presuming gigabit ethernet and other nominal conditions). And b), if the Terra is for some reason that much faster (and this was known), then I likely would have done a Strato C and a Terra instead.

So lets see what their engineering investigation finds I suppose....
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UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
Sony VPL-VW5000es • Panamorph Paladin DCR • Trinnov Altitude 16 • Crown DCIn amplifiers • JBL M2 (LCR-LW-RW) • JBL S2S-EX subwoofers x2 • JBL SCL-4 (side/rear surrounds) • JBL SCS12 (x4) SCS8 (x2) TH/RH/TM • Lumagen Radiance Pro • Panasonic UB820 • Apple TV 4k • Synology RAID (45 TB total storage) • RTI control system
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My understanding is Movies Anywhere is a done deal, just may be later this year before it’s launched... so a bit of a leap of faith, but on fairly good word...
Now I see, I thought that your question was would Kaleidescape have a vault system and player like The Premiere system but for the Encore system.. I misunderstood the question.

Art
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post #4520 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 12:59 PM
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I have a Strato S 12TB...

Comcast internet capped at 175mbps...

Located in Miami....

These are my last few downloads...

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In the past it took me almost 4 hours for a 4K HDR movie but last fall K upped the download speed on there end and I get u dear a hour on average now...
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post #4521 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 01:34 PM
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Kaleidescape Strato Movie Player 4K HDR $4,500

I’m in Florida with Comcast gigabit Internet.

My 10TB Strato downloads max out around 100mbps.






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I’m in Florida with Comcast gigabit Internet.

My Strato downloads max out around 100mbps.






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That’s crazy I only have 175mbs and max out at 175mbps here in miami
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post #4523 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 01:37 PM
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Last time I spoke to K about download speeds, they told me the Strato was limited because of its “player class chip” if I remember correctly..... SJ
This is similar to what I was told and I think I was talking to engineering. But it was over a year ago so things may have changed. There does seem to be geographical variation based on posts.

I am interested to hear what thrang hears back this time.

John
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post #4524 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 01:49 PM
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What is the speed of your internet service?


600 down. I speed test reliably near that range.


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post #4525 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
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My understanding is Movies Anywhere is a done deal, just may be later this year before it’s launched... so a bit of a leap of faith, but on fairly good word...


I finally bought in a good deal around Christmas time with similar hope. Without MA, I’m not sure the Strato stays in my setup. But I had to get myself out of the DIY media server/ripping disc approach one way or another. And I didn’t want to mess with discs. So K is the only answer to still get high bit rate video and lossless audio and a whole lot more UHD HDR content than makes it to disc.


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post #4526 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 01:55 PM
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It may be a few days before I hear back according to the tech support rep...

UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
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post #4527 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 08:38 PM
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I’m in Nebraska with Gig Fiber and I’m happy with how fast it downloads to the Strato.


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post #4528 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 10:19 PM
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So Kscape got back to me...they had to “fix” something on their end, and I am now seeing 250 Mbps average downloads.



I will peak closer to 300 at times, so I think they are still throttling throughout as opposed to an actual limit. They are stating now 250 is the limit in the Strato, (on the phone earlier it was 300) and the Terra would be around north 500 in optimal LAN and WAN conditions.

From a write perspective this still seems like an arbitrary limit they decided upon, but 250 average is more than fine - this is much more like what I was expecting. The geo limitation claim made to me at the start was not a factor to the issue I was experiencing.

Part of the giveaway as to higher potential Strati performance is the internal bandwidth limit set. This increments up tp 300, and then to Unlimited beyond that. There wouldn’t be a point to off a 300 limit set and an even higher unlimited option if the box could only support 250. Wonder if the Tera servers show the same or higher option.

Of course, 500 Mbps sounds even nicer... do I dare Terra...? Oh vey...
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UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
Sony VPL-VW5000es • Panamorph Paladin DCR • Trinnov Altitude 16 • Crown DCIn amplifiers • JBL M2 (LCR-LW-RW) • JBL S2S-EX subwoofers x2 • JBL SCL-4 (side/rear surrounds) • JBL SCS12 (x4) SCS8 (x2) TH/RH/TM • Lumagen Radiance Pro • Panasonic UB820 • Apple TV 4k • Synology RAID (45 TB total storage) • RTI control system

Last edited by thrang; 04-02-2019 at 10:28 PM.
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post #4529 of 4795 Old 04-02-2019, 10:50 PM
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Awesome!


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Video: JVC NX7, Stewart Cima Neve 135"
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post #4530 of 4795 Old 04-03-2019, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
So Kscape got back to me...they had to “fix” something on their end, and I am now seeing 250 Mbps average downloads.
Wow - that is interesting - so they are intentionally throttling download speeds for Strato owners dialling into the server, compared to Terra owners dialling into the same server! That is quite surprising (dare I say shocking) to hear!
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