Kaleidescape Strato Movie Player 4K HDR $4,500 - Page 160 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4771 of 4906 Old 05-19-2019, 07:14 PM
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How does the wife feel about you installing video equipment in the kitchen?

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She must be in “Strato-sphere”. 🙂
The wife was with me when we visited Rob Hahn's house and went through K to select movie clips... it was amazing to her to be able to call up movies so quickly. She's a fan..

However, she didn't understand how it could cost so much for a simple hard drive...
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post #4772 of 4906 Old 05-20-2019, 11:36 AM
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Just starting up with a new Kaleidescape Strato S.
I want to load up on Ultraviolet titles from VUDU while I can.
Is there a list anywhere of the UHD titles with Dolby Atmos?
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post #4773 of 4906 Old 05-20-2019, 11:48 AM
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Does the KScape remote or otherwise have a repeat chapter and repeat title control, such as on my Oppo UDP-205 remote? If so I sure can't find it!

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post #4774 of 4906 Old 05-20-2019, 12:40 PM
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Is there a list anywhere of the UHD titles with Dolby Atmos?
Yup! Just follow this link to go down that particular rabbit hole: https://www.kaleidescape.com/movie-s...os_4k_ultra_hd
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post #4775 of 4906 Old 05-21-2019, 11:45 AM
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post #4776 of 4906 Old 05-21-2019, 12:06 PM
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Not likely, being that a similar system was how K began. It USED to be that you could pop in a disc, do a bit-for-bit transfer, boom. Done. Was easy to use and a great setup. THEN Hollywood brought the hammer down on them and they've gone through a series of legal battles and compromises that ultimately led to what we have today.

If that system you linked catches any traction at all, I'll be shocked if the studios leaves them alone for more than a second. Good luck to them! I truly hope they can get away with what they're shooting for, but I am pessimistic after K's history.
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post #4777 of 4906 Old 05-21-2019, 01:37 PM
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No way that’s a threat to K. All that is is a packaged version of the same ripping mechanisms one can achieve in their own DiY solution. It’s entirely gray area market and in no way studio blessed.

Plus you’re limited to ripping and storing your own discs. There’s no store or cloud licensed element behind it.

If one would buy that, they should just skip ripping entirely and buy a K or do the appropriate research and build their own rip station, server, and select appropriate playback devices.


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post #4778 of 4906 Old 05-21-2019, 01:55 PM
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No way that’s a threat to K. All that is is a packaged version of the same ripping mechanisms one can achieve in their own DiY solution. It’s entirely gray area market and in no way studio blessed.

Plus you’re limited to ripping and storing your own discs. There’s no store or cloud licensed element behind it.

If one would buy that, they should just skip ripping entirely and buy a K or do the appropriate research and build their own rip station, server, and select appropriate playback devices.


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Its not a threat, but you tell me how a company as big as Fusion could go thru all the development and manufacturing of such a item if they did not come up with some kind of agreement. Are saying its gray market and not licensed to do what they claim it can do?

Personally I wish K would find a way for us to rip our own UHD disc into our system.

I am firmly in K s camp. I am a licensed dealer for K

I just find it kind of funny that Fusion shows up with a unit in a configuration we all have been dreaming about and the first thing that comes to mind ; its all BS
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post #4779 of 4906 Old 05-21-2019, 05:47 PM
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Its not a threat, but you tell me how a company as big as Fusion could go thru all the development and manufacturing of such a item if they did not come up with some kind of agreement. Are saying its gray market and not licensed to do what they claim it can do?

Personally I wish K would find a way for us to rip our own UHD disc into our system.

I am firmly in K s camp. I am a licensed dealer for K

I just find it kind of funny that Fusion shows up with a unit in a configuration we all have been dreaming about and the first thing that comes to mind ; its all BS
Fusion has had ripping servers for years now. Here's a review from back in 2008 when Fusion had an $11 grand media server for DVDs:

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...-cinema-player

Apparently now they've moved into ripping 4k discs via custom installers. Wonder how much their 4k system cost and if one could even argue its a bargain compared to KScape. I have my doubts given that their 2008 DVD media server reviewed cost $11 grand! If any dealers here at AVS are Fusion dealers maybe they can tell us msrp for Fusion Genesis 4k media server?

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post #4780 of 4906 Old 05-21-2019, 07:08 PM
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Its not a threat, but you tell me how a company as big as Fusion could go thru all the development and manufacturing of such a item if they did not come up with some kind of agreement. Are saying its gray market and not licensed to do what they claim it can do?

Personally I wish K would find a way for us to rip our own UHD disc into our system.

I am firmly in K s camp. I am a licensed dealer for K

I just find it kind of funny that Fusion shows up with a unit in a configuration we all have been dreaming about and the first thing that comes to mind ; its all BS
That's exactly what I'm saying.

The Fusion system is just a packaged HTPC. It's a way to more easily do a gray area disc ripped setup that many here on AVS and other places do themselves.

There's no way Fusion has real licensed rights for their system to do what it does. If you read the old review, it says as such. You have to click through license terms that put ownership and liability on you for the operations being performed. The platform is a custom wrapper on top of some other software like AnyDVD, MakeMKV, MyMovies, PowerDVD, and so on that buttons it all up for someone that doesn't want to DIY it. There's no way they have the AACS keys legally to break the copy protection and do the import, and I highly doubt they cracked that stuff themselves.

"You have to go to the cover-art menu, press the record button on the remote, and then highlight "Yes" to begin importing the disc. Having you click your acceptance puts the responsibility on you, the system owner, to import discs that belong to you."

I did the DIY thing for many years. I still have my 66TB Synology waiting to be sold. I've used every piece of software to rip, extract, and encode as well as any major library manager, movie wall front end, and many different playback devices from Dunes to jailbroken Oppos to HTPCs. I know exactly how it all works. I opted to transition out of that approach and into K for various reasons last year upon catching a great deal on a Strato and having kept my eye on K for many years.

There are a lot of benefits to doing a custom rip your own and play setup compared to K (more content, cheaper cost), but also many detriments as well. The ripping solution detriments are pretty major and risky. A big one being the whole deal is one AACS revision away from being stonewalled, as it almost was with AACS 2.1 last year. Luckily, the Russians still managed to break it (DeUHD), and it only came out on 2 discs and no more since then. I have to admit I kind of miss the DIY solution because I enjoyed the tinkering more than I realized, and I grow further frustrated every day that passes by and K still lacks Movies Anywhere.

I don't want to totally diminish what Fusion has done entirely. They have put a lot of effort into building front end software and nicely packaged hardware, but make no mistake they are a far cry from K in terms of hardware, software, and legally licensed connection to Hollywood studios.

Granted, how they still exist legally does confuse me. I'm sure they have very, very carefully crafted the licensing terms of their offering to skate by some loophole per the above notes, as well as being really niche, low volume.
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post #4781 of 4906 Old 05-21-2019, 07:19 PM
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Its not a threat, but you tell me how a company as big as Fusion could go thru all the development and manufacturing of such a item if they did not come up with some kind of agreement. Are saying its gray market and not licensed to do what they claim it can do?

Personally I wish K would find a way for us to rip our own UHD disc into our system.

I am firmly in K s camp. I am a licensed dealer for K

I just find it kind of funny that Fusion shows up with a unit in a configuration we all have been dreaming about and the first thing that comes to mind ; its all BS
How can you be a dealer for K and not recognize how fugazy the Fusion solution is?
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post #4782 of 4906 Old 05-22-2019, 12:31 AM
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That's exactly what I'm saying.

The Fusion system is just a packaged HTPC. It's a way to more easily do a gray area disc ripped setup that many here on AVS and other places do themselves.

There's no way Fusion has real licensed rights for their system to do what it does. If you read the old review, it says as such. You have to click through license terms that put ownership and liability on you for the operations being performed. The platform is a custom wrapper on top of some other software like AnyDVD, MakeMKV, MyMovies, PowerDVD, and so on that buttons it all up for someone that doesn't want to DIY it. There's no way they have the AACS keys legally to break the copy protection and do the import, and I highly doubt they cracked that stuff themselves.

"You have to go to the cover-art menu, press the record button on the remote, and then highlight "Yes" to begin importing the disc. Having you click your acceptance puts the responsibility on you, the system owner, to import discs that belong to you."

I did the DIY thing for many years. I still have my 66TB Synology waiting to be sold. I've used every piece of software to rip, extract, and encode as well as any major library manager, movie wall front end, and many different playback devices from Dunes to jailbroken Oppos to HTPCs. I know exactly how it all works. I opted to transition out of that approach and into K for various reasons last year upon catching a great deal on a Strato and having kept my eye on K for many years.

There are a lot of benefits to doing a custom rip your own and play setup compared to K (more content, cheaper cost), but also many detriments as well. The ripping solution detriments are pretty major and risky. A big one being the whole deal is one AACS revision away from being stonewalled, as it almost was with AACS 2.1 last year. Luckily, the Russians still managed to break it (DeUHD), and it only came out on 2 discs and no more since then. I have to admit I kind of miss the DIY solution because I enjoyed the tinkering more than I realized, and I grow further frustrated every day that passes by and K still lacks Movies Anywhere.

I don't want to totally diminish what Fusion has done entirely. They have put a lot of effort into building front end software and nicely packaged hardware, but make no mistake they are a far cry from K in terms of hardware, software, and legally licensed connection to Hollywood studios.

Granted, how they still exist legally does confuse me. I'm sure they have very, very carefully crafted the licensing terms of their offering to skate by some loophole per the above notes, as well as being really niche, low volume.
Good post - I've seen these Fusion Research units linked to before - its really difficult to understand who would buy it. I've just done a quick search and the non-4K player/server unit is a snip under 10,000 Euro, and the zone player is just under 2,300 Euro. Whats really funny, is on the same German webstore page as the Zone player, they advertise the Zappiti 4K media player, likely the identical platform the Zone player is based on, for 240 Euro lol

I can't imagine anyone interested in a K system, even considering this Fusion Research system. Its a DIY system boxed up for the unsuspecting/uneducated customer.
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post #4783 of 4906 Old 05-22-2019, 07:12 AM
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Neither would I.

But We as dealers are bound to get questions about it.

Happens all the time.

Problem "most customers" have no clue.
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post #4784 of 4906 Old 05-22-2019, 09:22 AM
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...I did the DIY thing for many years. I still have my 66TB Synology waiting to be sold. I've used every piece of software to rip, extract, and encode as well as any major library manager, movie wall front end, and many different playback devices from Dunes to jailbroken Oppos to HTPCs. I know exactly how it all works. I opted to transition out of that approach and into K for various reasons last year upon catching a great deal on a Strato and having kept my eye on K for many years...
Ha I am at the beginning of my effort to build a Synology, and find it daunting despite that I, as you, have tinkered a lot over the years and found it mostly fun (I'm retired and it's a key hobby along w/my many computers/gizmos). Trying to consolidate BDs, UHDBDs, HD-DVDs, and the various Apple and Vudu movies is challenging me (dunno how or if to try to download the digitals and deal w/DRM).

Besides the cost, not only of hardware but also movies, of the K system I have concerns for the subtitle features. My wife is hearing impaired, but not deaf, and most movies seem to have the type of subs that show {LEAVES RUSTLING] or {SCREEECH!} and such that we don't need and are distracting. So I like to edit subtitles to rid them of the SDH effects.

No doubt the benefit to K is that it just works. More time enjoying the art and less time fiddling. So I envy you your setup.
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post #4785 of 4906 Old 05-22-2019, 11:55 AM
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Ha I am at the beginning of my effort to build a Synology, and find it daunting despite that I, as you, have tinkered a lot over the years and found it mostly fun (I'm retired and it's a key hobby along w/my many computers/gizmos). Trying to consolidate BDs, UHDBDs, HD-DVDs, and the various Apple and Vudu movies is challenging me (dunno how or if to try to download the digitals and deal w/DRM).

Besides the cost, not only of hardware but also movies, of the K system I have concerns for the subtitle features. My wife is hearing impaired, but not deaf, and most movies seem to have the type of subs that show {LEAVES RUSTLING] or {SCREEECH!} and such that we don't need and are distracting. So I like to edit subtitles to rid them of the SDH effects.

No doubt the benefit to K is that it just works. More time enjoying the art and less time fiddling. So I envy you your setup.
It really boils down to how valuable is your time. I used to build and maintain HTPC's and Storage Arrays as well (still have an UNRaid box plugging away with family content), but I found that the hours I would have to spend a year in maintaining, converting, configuring players, etc. were adding up. So it eventually became clear that when all those hours were added up, and combined with the hardward costs, a K system was more cost effective for me (and now our business).
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post #4786 of 4906 Old 05-22-2019, 01:53 PM
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It really boils down to how valuable is your time. I used to build and maintain HTPC's and Storage Arrays as well (still have an UNRaid box plugging away with family content), but I found that the hours I would have to spend a year in maintaining, converting, configuring players, etc. were adding up. So it eventually became clear that when all those hours were added up, and combined with the hardward costs, a K system was more cost effective for me (and now our business).
Same here. I'm a big fan of HTPCs. They're a lot of fun (when you have time) and it's nice to be able to rip anything you want to. That said, after making the switch to K, I've completely gotten away from ripping my own stuff. Especially after 4K blu-ray came out. It was just too finicky and time consuming to mess with.

At first I thought I'd have one foot planted in each camp, but my old hard drives have been collecting cobwebs more and more these last few years.. More than I'd like to admit. I blow the dust off them and fire up the old gear once in a while when I want to watch one of my old files that simply isn't available on the K store, but overall? There's just no going back. Especially for family use. The HTPC route is great for guys like us who know how to get around the systems, but once family use came into the picture, that changed my perspective a LOT. Not only does the family like using the K interface, but I simply don't have the time any more to fuss with cracking/converting blu-rays and once they started using more and more obfuscation? (especially Disney) Whew! Forget about it. Too much time spend trying to figure out the right file to rip.

I think many of us share a similar story of our transition toward K, even when taking into account its downsides compare to a home-made movie system.
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post #4787 of 4906 Old 05-23-2019, 01:27 PM
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Here is a question for you K-Scape lovers.
Is there a way to take the 6,000 or so CD's and high resolution music files I have stored on my server (and tagged meticulously) and get a similar on screen experience to the K-Scape?
I love the Roon and J-River interfaces but they are for computer and the only way it seems to get them on screen is by using Airplay or Apple-cast or whatever its called. I don't use Apple much.
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post #4788 of 4906 Old 05-23-2019, 02:13 PM
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Here is a question for you K-Scape lovers.
Is there a way to take the 6,000 or so CD's and high resolution music files I have stored on my server (and tagged meticulously) and get a similar on screen experience to the K-Scape?
I love the Roon and J-River interfaces but they are for computer and the only way it seems to get them on screen is by using Airplay or Apple-cast or whatever its called. I don't use Apple much.
YES

I have about 1000 CD loaded
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post #4789 of 4906 Old 05-23-2019, 02:59 PM
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Here is a question for you K-Scape lovers.
Is there a way to take the 6,000 or so CD's and high resolution music files I have stored on my server (and tagged meticulously) and get a similar on screen experience to the K-Scape?
I love the Roon and J-River interfaces but they are for computer and the only way it seems to get them on screen is by using Airplay or Apple-cast or whatever its called. I don't use Apple much.
Now that Plex has an app for Roku, AndroidTV, and AppleTV, have you given that a try? While it won't be nearly as slick and intuitive as the Kscape interface, you should at least be able to access all your media through it on a variety of devices.
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post #4790 of 4906 Old 05-23-2019, 06:43 PM
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Now that Plex has an app for Roku, AndroidTV, and AppleTV, have you given that a try? While it won't be nearly as slick and intuitive as the Kscape interface, you should at least be able to access all your media through it on a variety of devices.
ROON was updated some time ago I think to allow you to play music on one device and have a separate other device showing the music playing. I haven't done this but I do recall the update. Moreover, using a ROON Ready ethernet DAC or player in my experience gives much better sonics than a HDMI connection (although I haven't bothered to try the Strato C coaxial digital out for music since I use my Trinnov Altitude 32's ROON Ready ethernet).

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post #4791 of 4906 Old 05-24-2019, 01:50 AM
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It really boils down to how valuable is your time. I used to build and maintain HTPC's and Storage Arrays as well (still have an UNRaid box plugging away with family content), but I found that the hours I would have to spend a year in maintaining, converting, configuring players, etc. were adding up. So it eventually became clear that when all those hours were added up, and combined with the hardward costs, a K system was more cost effective for me (and now our business).
It's really not like that anymore with some of the modern media players like the Zidoo. All I have to do is stick the disc in my laptop, set it to rip directly to the NAS and walk away. An hour later (for a UHD, much less for a blu-ray) I can fire up my system with the Zidoo, and there is the movie, automatically added to the library, cover art automatically downloaded, ready to play. It takes 3-4 minutes of my time, tops.
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post #4792 of 4906 Old 05-24-2019, 04:11 AM
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Informative thread..!!
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post #4793 of 4906 Old 05-24-2019, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
It's really not like that anymore with some of the modern media players like the Zidoo. All I have to do is stick the disc in my laptop, set it to rip directly to the NAS and walk away. An hour later (for a UHD, much less for a blu-ray) I can fire up my system with the Zidoo, and there is the movie, automatically added to the library, cover art automatically downloaded, ready to play. It takes 3-4 minutes of my time, tops.
Interesting. Been a while since I've been in the game. That Zidoo looks like a great player. I thought ripping images of 4K discs could still be a pain these days, though. Is that not the case anymore?

EITHER WAY, once I became an A/V professional and was working with customers, I could no longer even suggest going the ripping route as it's still too much of a legal quandary to suggest, and certainly could not sell them a product that would facilitate that. I personally have zero issue with ripping and backing up movies that I paid for and possess. Unfortunately the industry thinks otherwise and it's just something I wasn't going to touch with a ten foot pole as professional. Haha.

Also from a SUPPORT perspective, K's awesome because it simply works beautifully for even the most laymen of laymen. Even if it was totally unquestionably legal, home backups involving PCs and custom playback devices would just be a total nightmare. I've done PC technical support before in the past and I quickly came to HATE doing it. A/V's not that much different so I've learned that no matter OUR capabilities, dead easy and reliable is what I want when setting someone up with any kind of system. I couldn't imagine trying to walk someone through ripping discs and making MKV files. Noooooo way.
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post #4794 of 4906 Old 05-24-2019, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
...All I have to do is stick the disc in my laptop, set it to rip directly to the NAS and walk away. An hour later (for a UHD, much less for a blu-ray) I can fire up my system with the Zidoo, and there is the movie, automatically added to the library, cover art automatically downloaded, ready to play. It takes 3-4 minutes of my time, tops.
So you just rip the entire disc as-is to your NAS? If yes, many of us don't want that. The joy of KS (as I understand it) and my ATV4K is that you select and press Play and get the movie.

What aggravates me no end about discs (among other things) is the delays and the steps one must go thru, different for every disc, to finally land on the opening credits of a movie!
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post #4795 of 4906 Old 05-25-2019, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post
So you just rip the entire disc as-is to your NAS? If yes, many of us don't want that. The joy of KS (as I understand it) and my ATV4K is that you select and press Play and get the movie.

What aggravates me no end about discs (among other things) is the delays and the steps one must go thru, different for every disc, to finally land on the opening credits of a movie!
No, I rip the main movie and soundtrack only. As soon as you hit play, the movie plays.
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post #4796 of 4906 Old 05-30-2019, 04:13 PM
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If you purchase the KScape 25 movies for $499, do these also transfer to your UV library or do they just stay within the Kscape ecosystem.

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post #4797 of 4906 Old 05-30-2019, 04:15 PM
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If you purchase the KScape 25 movies for $499, do these also transfer to your UV library or do they just stay within the Kscape ecosystem.
That depends if they are UV titles. At this point, if they are not Paramount, Sony and a select few Lionsgate, they are likely not UV titles.

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post #4798 of 4906 Old 05-30-2019, 04:17 PM
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That depends if they are UV titles. At this point, if they are not Paramount, Sony and a select few Lionsgate, they are likely not UV titles.

Good Point,

Thanks.

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post #4799 of 4906 Old 05-30-2019, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by kingwiggi View Post
If you purchase the KScape 25 movies for $499, do these also transfer to your UV library or do they just stay within the Kscape ecosystem.
You need to buy them today! Kaleidescape shuts off UV service tomorrow, May 31st.
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post #4800 of 4906 Old 05-30-2019, 05:33 PM
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You need to buy them today! Kaleidescape shuts off UV service tomorrow, May 31st.


Yes, that is my plan.


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