Kaleidescape Strato Movie Player 4K HDR $4,500 - Page 164 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4891 of 4960 Old 06-19-2019, 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Almost spat my coffee out when I saw that typo lol



The difference between the 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 output is merely a difference in upsampling output by the player. In both cases the actual content is always 4:2:0. I've no reason to believe the video is anything other than identical to the disc.



I've long suspected that Kaleidescape players do some sort of subtle post processing. When I compared my Strato to my Panny UB900, the Kaleidescape always looked slightly better and sharper than the disc, until I turned on the (excellent) sharpening settings in the Panny, then they looked identical.


as I said I am not and expert just post what I see and learn

But the audio I will post later what it show again I am just an user who love this hobby


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post #4892 of 4960 Old 06-19-2019, 06:06 AM
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as I said I am not and expert just post what I see and learn

But the audio I will post later what it show again I am just an user who love this hobby


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Just to correct I mean HBR

Here is from OPPO 203


That’s my audio setting


And here from K


In OPPO in HBR it show with latter N (NO)
In K the HBR show in latter Y (YES)

again I am not sure if this mean K have batter audio or not





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post #4893 of 4960 Old 06-19-2019, 07:21 AM
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I wouldn't be surprised if the K player does it's own upsampling on the video or audio. What I was getting at though was the claims by some people that the files distributed by them are somehow better then disc itself. I've seen that claim thrown out as fact by more than one reviewer, especially on YouTube. Its fine to say subjectively you liked the way the audio sounded or the video looked through the K player, it's another thing to state objectively that the files are a better quality then the discs put out by the studios themselves. Even if Kaleidescape the company was manually manipulating the files after ripping them off of the discs before allowing users to download them, they would STILL be going off of the original file produced by the studios.

Unless Kaleidescape is saying that they somehow have access to the raw video files from the studios...

Either way, this is a good product, if not WAY overpriced. But high end audio/video is like art, it's worth what someones willing to pay.
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post #4894 of 4960 Old 06-19-2019, 07:46 AM
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Thanks buddy ... will try to look into it next time I download


No worries body we are all here to share our passion and help each other ..cheers


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I have been using K app on my iPhone to purchase movies last few months and the option to see download size is not there on the app . I will have to start using my desktop again 😀
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post #4895 of 4960 Old 06-19-2019, 08:26 AM
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I have been using K app on my iPhone to purchase movies last few months and the option to see download size is not there on the app . I will have to start using my desktop again 😀


Use the safari to browse not the app the app doesn’t show the size


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post #4896 of 4960 Old 06-19-2019, 09:13 AM
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I talked to KScape at last CEDIA and was clearly told that the audio files downloaded in terms of size, compression and quality are identical to those on the disc.

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post #4897 of 4960 Old 06-19-2019, 09:56 AM
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I talked to KScape at last CEDIA and was clearly told that the audio files downloaded in terms of size, compression and quality are identical to those on the disc.


Just the thing I notice is the HBR from lumagen info page #4

All the story that K really provide a top Q content but need to be batter in term of the immersive audio and MA for most of it user US based and keep adding studio like MGM to be the ultimate solution




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post #4898 of 4960 Old 06-19-2019, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
I talked to KScape at last CEDIA and was clearly told that the audio files downloaded in terms of size, compression and quality are identical to those on the disc.
Clearly not everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet given this quote from Mike Kobb, taken from the blog I linked to earlier

"MK One other thing to consider, getting back to our earlier discussion about Kaleidescape versus discs: One area where we have some latitude is that the optical disc has whatever capacity it has, so when the disc is authored, they’re working with that limitation. We don’t have that limitation. We don’t have to conform our releases to something that could fit on an optical disc. We don’t have to worry about adding a second disc for bonus features. So, if a particular movie or TV series benefits from having higher-bandwidth encoding than a disc would allow, we can do that."
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post #4899 of 4960 Old 06-19-2019, 11:28 AM
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I wouldn't be surprised if the K player does it's own upsampling on the video or audio. What I was getting at though was the claims by some people that the files distributed by them are somehow better then disc itself. I've seen that claim thrown out as fact by more than one reviewer, especially on YouTube. Its fine to say subjectively you liked the way the audio sounded or the video looked through the K player, it's another thing to state objectively that the files are a better quality then the discs put out by the studios themselves. Even if Kaleidescape the company was manually manipulating the files after ripping them off of the discs before allowing users to download them, they would STILL be going off of the original file produced by the studios.

Unless Kaleidescape is saying that they somehow have access to the raw video files from the studios...

Either way, this is a good product, if not WAY overpriced. But high end audio/video is like art, it's worth what someones willing to pay.
Did you even read the link I provided you with, that explains their process and that as they don't have the limitations of disc space, they can increase the encoding bandwidth - so in some cases not the same as the disc.
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post #4900 of 4960 Old 06-19-2019, 11:43 AM
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I’ve never observed any significant difference in size between K and discs having ripped a lot to compare.

I’ve done A/B to disc. Sometimes there’s a difference, sometimes hard to say. I can’t say I’ve seen K or disc looking terribly different once any contributing factor is accounted for.


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post #4901 of 4960 Old 06-19-2019, 12:28 PM
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I actually didnt see the link till now but I got a chance to check it out.

So what they are saying is the studio is sending them raw movie files for them to encode as they see fit. Oddly though they dont show or give any examples of encoding files in a less compressed state then how they are delivered onto the disc. They very well could be, but no one knows. I'm not sure of they created their own proprietary encoding format or not? If they havent, they are still limited to the same exact constraints as normal folks who use available codecs and containers. This would though explain how the movies could look and sound different; they tweak the files before sending them out. I'm not saying they don't have very capable people doing it (as some studio releases are rushed) but it's akin to those bass boosted videos you see on YouTube. The perception is the music has more bass, but all they did was raise the gain.

This is one of those weird circumstances
Its at minimum, not smart of them for not being more clear and upfront about the actual benefits of their encoding process and explaining in specific detail what they are doing with those raw files, or at worse, its them selling snake oil to high end A/V gear heads that want to show off how much money they spent. I'm hoping its more towards the former.

I have no reason to believe they are trying to pull a fast one on the consumer, it just seems very odd that if youre selling point on such a high end product is that this product is the sole place to obtain the highest quality movie possible on the consumer market, you would lead with numbers and hard visual comparissons.

From what it sounds like from the article is that they themselves transcode the movies to tweak it to their liking more so then some studios would do. Does that mean you are going to get better quality? Maybe? End of they day if you're happy, does it matter? I give them credit for taking the time and effort to do that.

Idk, just my 2 cents.

P.s. not attacking anyone who has bought one of these, if I could I would buy one too. I just personally like to see as much hard data to compare when possible.


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I wouldn't be surprised if the K player does it's own upsampling on the video or audio. What I was getting at though was the claims by some people that the files distributed by them are somehow better then disc itself. I've seen that claim thrown out as fact by more than one reviewer, especially on YouTube. Its fine to say subjectively you liked the way the audio sounded or the video looked through the K player, it's another thing to state objectively that the files are a better quality then the discs put out by the studios themselves. Even if Kaleidescape the company was manually manipulating the files after ripping them off of the discs before allowing users to download them, they would STILL be going off of the original file produced by the studios.

Unless Kaleidescape is saying that they somehow have access to the raw video files from the studios...

Either way, this is a good product, if not WAY overpriced. But high end audio/video is like art, it's worth what someones willing to pay.
Did you even read the link I provided you with, that explains their process and that as they don't have the limitations of disc space, they can increase the encoding bandwidth - so in some cases not the same as the disc.
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post #4902 of 4960 Old 06-19-2019, 12:33 PM
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This seems to be less a case of "higher quality" and more the case of "cleaner quality"
Like when developing color pictures, depending on who does it the colors and focus can vary. I've seen the same negative developed by multiple people have varying levels of quality.

So good on them for taking the time to do that.
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post #4903 of 4960 Old 06-19-2019, 12:42 PM
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Did you even read the link I provided you with, that explains their process and that as they don't have the limitations of disc space, they can increase the encoding bandwidth - so in some cases not the same as the disc.
Yes I was told that due to not having disc space limitations they were not limited like disc re extras as such; but again the KScape rep stated that the audio they were provided is identical to that provided by the studio which is identical to that encoded on the disc. And this makes sense - because the audio is encoded, the best audio these days is lossless, and it would not be practical for KScape to mess with that!

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post #4904 of 4960 Old 06-19-2019, 12:46 PM
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Yes I was told that due to not having disc space limitations they were not limited like disc re extras as such; but again the KScape rep stated that the audio they were provided is identical to that provided by the studio which is identical to that encoded on the disc. And this makes sense - because the audio is encoded, the best audio these days is lossless, and it would not be practical for KScape to mess with that!
Yeah I'm sure that Mike was referring to the video file rather than the audio track.
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post #4905 of 4960 Old 06-19-2019, 01:04 PM
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Clearly not everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet given this quote from Mike Kobb, taken from the blog I linked to earlier

"MK One other thing to consider, getting back to our earlier discussion about Kaleidescape versus discs: One area where we have some latitude is that the optical disc has whatever capacity it has, so when the disc is authored, they’re working with that limitation. We don’t have that limitation. We don’t have to conform our releases to something that could fit on an optical disc. We don’t have to worry about adding a second disc for bonus features. So, if a particular movie or TV series benefits from having higher-bandwidth encoding than a disc would allow, we can do that."
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Yes I was told that due to not having disc space limitations they were not limited like disc re extras as such; but again the KScape rep stated that the audio they were provided is identical to that provided by the studio which is identical to that encoded on the disc. And this makes sense - because the audio is encoded, the best audio these days is lossless, and it would not be practical for KScape to mess with that!
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Yeah I'm sure that Mike was referring to the video file rather than the audio track.
I think the key here is "if a particular movie or TV series benefits from having higher-bandwith encloding than a disc would allow, we can do that."
Too bad KScape doesn't give us this information, or something like "this UHD HDR movie benefits from Kaleidescape higher bandwith video encoding than on the comparable disc because we find the video picture benefits from this". Also, given that discs may come in multiples to avoid video picture issues, odds are that KScape would do this only in the odd situation of the otherwise too long movie I would think! It this is something KScape did more routinely don't you think they would advertise this as a feature to sell their product - I would think so. I do have some movies on both KScape (thanks to the now expired Ultraviolet link) and disc and I find the picture quality so far virtually undistinguishable.
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post #4906 of 4960 Old 06-19-2019, 02:40 PM
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I think the key here is "if a particular movie or TV series benefits from having higher-bandwith encloding than a disc would allow, we can do that."
Too bad KScape doesn't give us this information, or something like "this UHD HDR movie benefits from Kaleidescape higher bandwith video encoding than on the comparable disc because we find the video picture benefits from this". Also, given that discs may come in multiples to avoid video picture issues, odds are that KScape would do this only in the odd situation of the otherwise too long movie I would think! It this is something KScape did more routinely don't you think they would advertise this as a feature to sell their product - I would think so. I do have some movies on both KScape (thanks to the now expired Ultraviolet link) and disc and I find the picture quality so far virtually undistinguishable.

Agreed. I think also a lot of the picture quality is determined by what disc player you are using as well as which TV you are using, and the settings accompanying those things.

I would love to see someone like Vincent from HDTVTest on YouTube to do a true comparison. The few reviews there are on this have only been on the unit itself not on an actual comparison basis. With something like this, especially for the price, I would love to see such direct comparisons
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post #4907 of 4960 Old 06-30-2019, 08:02 AM
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While I no longer own my K stuff, I still have a K Store account. I purchased the 4K shiny discs of the 5 Jack Ryan movies. At the store, it says I have the HD (non HDR) versions of those movies.

So, under what conditions do you get the 4K version if you have registered the 4K movie vs the HD version?
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post #4908 of 4960 Old 06-30-2019, 08:07 AM
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While I no longer own my K stuff, I still have a K Store account. I purchased the 4K shiny discs of the 5 Jack Ryan movies. At the store, it says I have the HD (non HDR) versions of those movies.



So, under what conditions do you get the 4K version if you have registered the 4K movie vs the HD version?


Those movies have not yet been made 4k in the K store. I bought the same set in disc. HD rights ported in under UV because that’s all K has/had.

If they go 4k in the K store now, I expect to have to pay to upgrade them to 4k because there is no more UV link that would give the 4k rights. It’s Paramount too, so their 4k upgrade price is often full price. Warner and Paramount are terrible with not giving discounted 4k upgrades, IIRC.

I’d be surprised if the old 4k UV right from the discs retained itself in the K store past the disconnection of UV.


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post #4909 of 4960 Old 06-30-2019, 09:20 AM
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Those movies have not yet been made 4k in the K store. I bought the same set in disc. HD rights ported in under UV because that’s all K has/had.

If they go 4k in the K store now, I expect to have to pay to upgrade them to 4k because there is no more UV link that would give the 4k rights. It’s Paramount too, so their 4k upgrade price is often full price. Warner and Paramount are terrible with not giving discounted 4k upgrades, IIRC.

I’d be surprised if the old 4k UV right from the discs retained itself in the K store past the disconnection of UV.
Thanks. I continue to think about buying a used (and hopefully really, really cheap) Strato for doing nothing but storing a few of my demo movies and having access to the "scene function" that I loved so much about the product.

There is probably a way to extract scenes from my already ripped MKV files but I have no clue how to do it.
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post #4910 of 4960 Old 06-30-2019, 09:31 AM
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Thanks. I continue to think about buying a used (and hopefully really, really cheap) Strato for doing nothing but storing a few of my demo movies and having access to the "scene function" that I loved so much about the product.



There is probably a way to extract scenes from my already ripped MKV files but I have no clue how to do it.


I’m still trying to figure out what I’m doing with mine. The price increase though gives me extra reason to keep it and wait. I will wait until CEDIA in any case. I’m hopeful we will see MA and additional positive news by then.

In the meantime I did sell my NAS and hard drives, but I’m holding on the Oppo 203 I recently rebought. I’m doing personal media again but at a smaller focus using the Oppo and my PC plus cloud storage. That will get me through CEDIA enjoying movies in my theater, then I will see.

I have 750+ movies in my K account right now with at least a 1/3rd of them UHD. When K gets MA, that will more than double with a lot more UHD as well. Once that happens, it’s pretty much a no brainer to go all in on K with a little bit of cloud storage and Apple TV/Infuse for the content I want that’s not in the store. Anything else I’ll just consume via streaming.

If K has a strong CEDIA, gets in MA, and so on, I may keep my eyes open for a Strato 12TB to upgrade from my 6TB and be able to keep a lot more content locally ready. It’ll be a long time before I would find myself with any kind of Terra server.


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post #4911 of 4960 Old 06-30-2019, 09:48 AM
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I’m still trying to figure out what I’m doing with mine. The price increase though gives me extra reason to keep it and wait. I will wait until CEDIA in any case. I’m hopeful we will see MA and additional positive news by then.

In the meantime I did sell my NAS and hard drives, but I’m holding on the Oppo 203 I recently rebought. I’m doing personal media again but at a smaller focus using the Oppo and my PC plus cloud storage. That will get me through CEDIA enjoying movies in my theater, then I will see.

I have 750+ movies in my K account right now with at least a 1/3rd of them UHD. When K gets MA, that will more than double with a lot more UHD as well. Once that happens, it’s pretty much a no brainer to go all in on K with a little bit of cloud storage and Apple TV/Infuse for the content I want that’s not in the store. Anything else I’ll just consume via streaming.

If K has a strong CEDIA, gets in MA, and so on, I may keep my eyes open for a Strato 12TB to upgrade from my 6TB and be able to keep a lot more content locally ready. It’ll be a long time before I would find myself with any kind of Terra server.
Help me with some math. 750 movies (or 1500 movies) won't fit on a 6TB or 12TB Strato. I think the 12TB stores about 300 movies. Given that, if you want to watch a movie that is not on your Strato, you just need to know in advance and remove one movie to make room for the one you want to watch and then download the new one?

Interesting idea.

I know there is no way to know but given K's previous temporary shutdown, I would love to know how they are doing financially. In addition to the things I would need from their product to re-invest, I would need to feel a lot more secure on their chances of long term success. I will continue to sit on the side-lines for now.
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post #4912 of 4960 Old 06-30-2019, 10:25 AM
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Help me with some math. 750 movies (or 1500 movies) won't fit on a 6TB or 12TB Strato. I think the 12TB stores about 300 movies. Given that, if you want to watch a movie that is not on your Strato, you just need to know in advance and remove one movie to make room for the one you want to watch and then download the new one?

Interesting idea.

I know there is no way to know but given K's previous temporary shutdown, I would love to know how they are doing financially. In addition to the things I would need from their product to re-invest, I would need to feel a lot more secure on their chances of long term success. I will continue to sit on the side-lines for now.
Yes, the "keep a bunch of stuff local and delete/download as desired" is my intent for how I will use a K system. I don't need 1,500 titles to select from at a moments notice. A 6TB Strato holds ~125 movies with a mix of UHD and HD. A 12TB would hold double that. It's enough. It's nicer to have an entire library of content available for one touch playback, sure, but 125 - 250 titles is still a lot of choose from on a whim.

I keep a wide variety of favorites and new titles we want to watch resident. Most titles after watching I delete and then queue up a download for something else. There are 4 of us in my family (me, wife, and 2 kids). We cycle who chooses the movie (Mom, Dad, Kid 1, Kid 2, repeat) on a given movie night. I can download a UHD movie in about and hour and half as well, so that's still enough time to pick a movie at dinner, kick off a download, and be ready to watch it shortly that evening.

MA is a big part of having reassurance to use K. If K got MA tomorrow, 5 major movie studios worth of content would port. That's were a lot of what we watch comes from, so I'd be confident at that point. I believe Paramount and Lionsgate will find their way into MA eventually as well.

After selling my NAS, I've come some interesting conclusions for my stand-in DIY solution. It ends up functioning a lot like K actually with regards to the content access model I described above with reliable Oppo playback. It just takes effort to rip and manage and it's not as nice of a UI and as using K with the Oppo network share browser.

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Sources: Apple TV 4k, Kaleidescape Strato, Oppo 203, Xbox One X, Nintendo Switch
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post #4913 of 4960 Old 06-30-2019, 10:25 AM
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I hope they’re doing well. Haven’t bought a disc in months! Such a nice way to watch movies.
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post #4914 of 4960 Old 06-30-2019, 10:55 AM
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Just bought my second Terra server. I added a 40 tb Terra Server to my existing 24 Tb terra Server. I too wish K would add MA and have far more complete Atmos and DTS-X coverage. But even with those issues the overall experience and convenience makes it worthwhile for us.

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post #4915 of 4960 Old 06-30-2019, 01:18 PM
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In reviewing my itemized statement from Cox last week, I discovered that I was paying extra for call waiting and a couple of long distance services, although the only reason I have a landline is so my burglar alarm company can communicate with my alarm. As a result and because of Cox's weird multi-service discount formula, by dropping the extra landline services, which I wasn't using anyway, I was able to upgrade my high speed Internet service from 150 Mbps to 1 gigabit, including the installation of a new high speed modem, for minus $1.00 a month. Go figure. No matter, I'm grateful.

Right now I still have a 1 tb per month download limit for data. I may have to raise my monthly download limit but won't do it yet. Fortunately, I have already downloaded my entire 375 movie Kscape library to my Kscape system so I know I'll be all right for a while. Still. The size of UHD HDR movie files is startlingly large, so it wouldn't take many such downloads for me to exceed my 1 tb limit. I'm happy for the moment, though. I should add that while I was downloading the bulk of my Kscape library, I subscribed to unlimited downloads from Cox.

HT setup: Sony 75XBR X940D UHD HDR TV; Kaleidescape Strato Movie Server 6 TB and Terra Server 24 TB; Yamaha RX-A3060 AV receiver; Sonamp 2-1 2channel 100W power amp; Crestron Control System; 2 Rythmik FV18 subwoofers, 6 Hsu HB-1 Bookshelf speakers, 1 Hsu HC-1 Center speaker, 4 Focal ICW8 in-ceiling Atmos speakers; Oppo UDP-203 4K HDR BD player; Mac Mini HTPC. TiVO Bolt 1TB DVR; TiVo Premiere Elite 2 TB DVR; Roku Premiere+
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post #4916 of 4960 Old 07-01-2019, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by bgarcia View Post
Just bought my second Terra server. I added a 40 tb Terra Server to my existing 24 Tb terra Server. I too wish K would add MA and have far more complete Atmos and DTS-X coverage. But even with those issues the overall experience and convenience makes it worthwhile for us.

Bryan


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I also purchased a second Terra before the price increase! SJ
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post #4917 of 4960 Old 07-01-2019, 10:19 AM
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I also purchased a second Terra before the price increase! SJ
I have three 40TB Terra servers and one grandfathered 1U+ so no need(for the time being) to buy an extra one. i nevertheless took advantage of K’s upgrade promotion and bought a second Strato S for another home, trading an old K movie player.

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post #4918 of 4960 Old 07-01-2019, 10:34 AM
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Those movies have not yet been made 4k in the K store. I bought the same set in disc. HD rights ported in under UV because that’s all K has/had.

If they go 4k in the K store now, I expect to have to pay to upgrade them to 4k because there is no more UV link that would give the 4k rights. It’s Paramount too, so their 4k upgrade price is often full price. Warner and Paramount are terrible with not giving discounted 4k upgrades, IIRC.

I’d be surprised if the old 4k UV right from the discs retained itself in the K store past the disconnection of UV.


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It definitely won’t. UV is over. And personally as I own the 4K set I won’t upgrade.

And while I agree with you re Paramount’s pricing, you are wrong re Warner. They’ve always offered BR or 4K upgrades for $15.99, most recent example being “Batman”.

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post #4919 of 4960 Old 07-02-2019, 07:38 AM
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It definitely won’t. UV is over. And personally as I own the 4K set I won’t upgrade.

And while I agree with you re Paramount’s pricing, you are wrong re Warner. They’ve always offered BR or 4K upgrades for $15.99, most recent example being “Batman”.
Yes, Warner and Sony have both had good upgrade pricing on the Store. Also, Universal has very good printing on old titles that are newly released in 4K (“Backdraft” and “Field of Dreams” for $15.99) whether or not you have purchased the HD title.
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post #4920 of 4960 Old 07-04-2019, 11:32 AM
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I recently subscribed to my high speed Internet provider’s, Cox, Gigablast service. Cox installed my new router yesterday. Earlier today I bought Warrior with HDR video and TrueHD audio from the Kscape store and downloaded it to my Kscape system. It downloaded at almost 600 Mbps and took only 17 minutes to do it. Needless to say I was pleased because my download speeds have quadrupled.
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HT setup: Sony 75XBR X940D UHD HDR TV; Kaleidescape Strato Movie Server 6 TB and Terra Server 24 TB; Yamaha RX-A3060 AV receiver; Sonamp 2-1 2channel 100W power amp; Crestron Control System; 2 Rythmik FV18 subwoofers, 6 Hsu HB-1 Bookshelf speakers, 1 Hsu HC-1 Center speaker, 4 Focal ICW8 in-ceiling Atmos speakers; Oppo UDP-203 4K HDR BD player; Mac Mini HTPC. TiVO Bolt 1TB DVR; TiVo Premiere Elite 2 TB DVR; Roku Premiere+
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