Kaleidescape Strato Movie Player 4K HDR $4,500 - Page 171 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5101 of 5371 Old 08-28-2019, 06:31 PM
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From Facebook:

“Seeing is believing. Pristine picture, incredible sound, automated lighting and screen masking. No words can evoke the feeling you get from a stellar reproduction of the cinematic experience provided by Kaleidescape. You’ll know it when you feel it. Come and experience the world’s premier movie solution in our custom theater at CEDIA booth 2549.

https://www.cediaexpo.com/“

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!
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post #5102 of 5371 Old 08-28-2019, 06:31 PM
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From Facebook:

Seeing is believing. Pristine picture, incredible sound, automated lighting and screen masking. No words can evoke the feeling you get from a stellar reproduction of the cinematic experience provided by Kaleidescape. You’ll know it when you feel it. Come and experience the world’s premier movie solution in our custom theater at CEDIA booth 2549.

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!

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post #5103 of 5371 Old 08-28-2019, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
From Facebook:

“Seeing is believing. Pristine picture, incredible sound, automated lighting and screen masking. No words can evoke the feeling you get from a stellar reproduction of the cinematic experience provided by Kaleidescape. You’️ll know it when you feel it. Come and experience the world’️s premier movie solution in our custom theater at CEDIA booth 2549.

https://www.cediaexpo.com/“
Steve

When you click on that link , it just says “page not found “
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post #5104 of 5371 Old 08-28-2019, 07:19 PM
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The link just goes to the main CEDIA page. They put the same post on their twitter earlier. It’s not a press release yet.


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post #5105 of 5371 Old 08-28-2019, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by tcramer View Post
If you have the Control 4 video matrix, honestly don't expect much by putting the Kscape in it unless you will only be watching non-HDR 4K. I have that matrix and it pretty much is only useful for sources that don't even do 4K or HDR. It can handle up to 4K 30 fps, but if you introduce any HDR into the mix it will fail.


It will not. I have the 10x10 Control4 Matrix and it passes HDR (at 30fps) just fine. All of my displays support HDR... that might be a requirement for it to work?


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post #5106 of 5371 Old 08-28-2019, 07:32 PM
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It will not. I have the 10x10 Control4 Matrix and it passes HDR (at 30fps) just fine. All of my displays support HDR... that might be a requirement for it to work?


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Interesting, maybe you got a newer version? I have the 10x10 as well and we have never gotten it to work with anything HDR. All of my displays it's connected to support HDR.
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post #5107 of 5371 Old 08-28-2019, 08:29 PM
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It will not. I have the 10x10 Control4 Matrix and it passes HDR (at 30fps) just fine. All of my displays support HDR... that might be a requirement for it to work?


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Interesting, maybe you got a newer version? I have the 10x10 as well and we have never gotten it to work with anything HDR. All of my displays it's connected to support HDR.
I think problem with matrix or splitters is that output drops to the lowest quality display attached to any of the outputs . At least it used to work that way . I haven’t looked at any newer matrix switches . So I am guessing if all the displays attached to the matrix are 4K HDR , you will get the full resolution .
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post #5108 of 5371 Old 08-29-2019, 05:43 AM
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I spoke to Atlona about their HDR-H2H-44MA: this seems like it will do the job but I was warned that using any cable longer than 15 feet might not work (even if it is 18 Ghz rated fiber cable): in that case HDMI extenders would be necessary

my cable runs are 15/20 feet....if I have to use extenders it would be a deal breaker....nothing is easy
got the Atlona to demo: seems to work well in my system

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post #5109 of 5371 Old 08-29-2019, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
From Facebook:

Seeing is believing. Pristine picture, incredible sound, automated lighting and screen masking. No words can evoke the feeling you get from a stellar reproduction of the cinematic experience provided by Kaleidescape. You’ll know it when you feel it. Come and experience the world’s premier movie solution in our custom theater at CEDIA booth 2549.
I've been accused of beating on Kaleidescape in the past, so have tried to quit posting negative stuff about K on this thread, but when I see an announcement like Steve posted, I get all riled up.

All of what is claimed in the above announcement can be had without a Kaleidescape. I have automated masking, automated lighting, a picture wall of my movies broken down the way I want them to be (which K was not able to easily do), I am 100% disc-less (which K can not do), 100% of my movies immediately have the best audio possible (which K does not do). And I have physical backup of every movie on my server. With K, I get digital copy back up of some of my movies (which, by definition, provides compromised audio and video). All at a cost of about 1/6th the price of the equivalent K system. The K equivalent would include the Strato ($4500) and at least 24TB of storage ($10,000). I have $1800 invested in my NAS (33TB), $150 in my Nvidia Shield player, and $300 in two drives that allow me to rip my 4K stuff.

My DIY solution is not for the masses, and there are a very few features that are easier to do on the K system than mine ("scenes" being the most important to me).

I get why K doesn't "pre-announce", but the thing I find the most annoying is that everything is the studios fault. And maybe that is true but K should have investigated and understood the issues prior to abandoning the strategy they had with the DV700 and Alto. With that strategy and hardware, I could have physical backup, if K didn't have the studio, I could use the physical disc in the DV700 and if they didn't have the proper audio track, I could put the disc with the proper audio track in the DV700.

I once had a boss tell me: "Don't let your problem become my problem" and that is EXACTLY what K has done.

There was once a time not long ago that if K could have fixed a few of their major shortcomings, I would have 100% re-invested. That is no longer true. I can rip a movie in the same or less elapsed time that I can download it from K, and typical pay less for the movie. But the thing that insures that I would never go back is I now have 100% physical backup of every movie I own. If all of my movies were purchased from the K store and K went under, I then am left with, at best, digital copies of some of my movies. I got burned when I sold my K system on those movies I had purchased from the K store and had to re-purchase them. I will not allow that to happen to me again.
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Last edited by audioguy; 08-29-2019 at 07:40 AM.
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post #5110 of 5371 Old 08-29-2019, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
From Facebook:

Seeing is believing. Pristine picture, incredible sound, automated lighting and screen masking. No words can evoke the feeling you get from a stellar reproduction of the cinematic experience provided by Kaleidescape. You’️ll know it when you feel it. Come and experience the world’️s premier movie solution in our custom theater at CEDIA booth 2549.
I've been accused of beating on Kaleidescape in the past, so have tried to quit posting negative stuff about K on this thread, but when I see an announcement like Steve posted, I get all riled up.

All of what is claimed in the above announcement can be had without a Kaleidescape. I have automated masking, automated lighting, a picture wall of my movies broken down the way I want them to be (which K was not able to easily do), I am 100% disc-less (which K can not do), 100% of my movies immediately have the best audio possible (which K does not do). And I have physical backup of every movie on my server. With K, I get digital copy back up of some of my movies (which, by definition, provides compromised audio and video). All at a cost of about 1/6th the price of the equivalent K system. The K equivalent would include the Strato ($4500) and at least 24TB of storage ($10,000). I have $1800 invested in my NAS (33TB), $150 in my Nvidia Shield player, and $300 in two drives that allow me to rip my 4K stuff.

My DIY solution is not for the masses, and there are a very few features that are easier to do on the K system than mine ("scenes" being the most important to me).

I get why K doesn't "pre-announce", but the thing I find the most annoying is that everything is the studios fault. And maybe that is true but K should have investigated and understood the issues prior to abandoning the strategy they had with the DV700 and Alto. With that strategy and hardware, I could have physical backup, if K didn't have the studio, I could use the physical disc in the DV700 and if they didn't have the proper audio track, I could put the disc with the proper audio track in the DV700.

I once had a boss tell me: "Don't let your problem become my problem" and that is EXACTLY what K has done.

There was once a time not long ago that if K could have fixed a few of their major shortcomings, I would have 100% re-invested. That is no longer true. I can rip a movie in the same or less elapsed time that I can download it from K, and typical pay less for the movie. But the thing that insures that I would never go back is I now have 100% physical backup of every movie I own. If all of my movies were purchased from the K store and K went under, I then am left with, at best, digital copies of some of my movies. I got burned when I sold my K system on those movies I had purchased from the K store and had to re-purchase them. I will not allow that to happen to me again.
Which software that is legal in US do you use to rip blu rays and 4K’s ?
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post #5111 of 5371 Old 08-29-2019, 08:43 AM
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Which software that is legal in US do you use to rip blu rays and 4K’s ?
There is no blu-ray ripping software that is illegal to use in the US. The question that I believe you are trying to raise is a matter of copyright, which is a civil matter between the rights holder and the user of the software. Without getting into the moral argument of whether an owner of legally purchased physical media has the right or not to copy that media onto another medium for their own consumption, in practical terms do you really think a copyright holder (such as a movie studio) would pursue such a user legally for such usage?
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post #5112 of 5371 Old 08-29-2019, 08:43 AM
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All of what is claimed in the above announcement can be had without a Kaleidescape. I have automated masking, automated lighting, a picture wall of my movies broken down the way I want them to be (which K was not able to easily do), I am 100% disc-less (which K can not do), 100% of my movies immediately have the best audio possible (which K does not do). And I have physical backup of every movie on my server. With K, I get digital copy back up of some of my movies (which, by definition, provides compromised audio and video). All at a cost of about 1/6th the price of the equivalent K system. The K equivalent would include the Strato ($4500) and at least 24TB of storage ($10,000). I have $1800 invested in my NAS (33TB), $150 in my Nvidia Shield player, and $300 in two drives that allow me to rip my 4K stuff.

My DIY solution is not for the masses, and there are a very few features that are easier to do on the K system than mine ("scenes" being the most important to me).
Do you have a thread with your setup? Would love to see how you're doing it all so effectively. Seriously. I used to rip my own discs for local playback but it just became too time consuming and when 4K BD came out, forget about it. I gave up. Plus it was tougher for the family or friends to use. K's pricey, but it ended up being the best commercial solution I could find that was 100% legal with the rare blessings of whichever studios partnered with them.

And while it was one thing for me to rip my own discs for personal playback (still a grey area legally), I couldn't/wouldn't (officially) promote any home backup systems for customers. Wasn't willing to take that sort of legal gamble. But hey, good on ya for figuring out something that works well for you! I gave up on that, but still really like it. Wish I had more time to devote to such building and creating my perfect system but alas.
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post #5113 of 5371 Old 08-29-2019, 08:45 AM
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Which software that is legal in US do you use to rip blu rays and 4K’️s ?
There is no blu-ray ripping software that is illegal to use in the US. The question that I believe you are trying to raise is a matter of copyright, which is a civil matter between the rights holder and the user of the software. Without getting into the moral argument of whether an owner of legally purchased physical media has the right or not to copy that media onto another medium for their own consumption, in practical terms do you really think a copyright holder (such as a movie studio) would pursue such a user legally for such usage?
Sure look at the lawsuits filed against end users and the settlements during Napster time
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post #5114 of 5371 Old 08-29-2019, 08:46 AM
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Which software that is legal in US do you use to rip blu rays and 4K’s ?
You have two laws that appear conflicting. On the one hand, you are allowed to make a personal backup copy. On the other, you are not allowed to circumvent copy protection. Until someone gets hauled into court and the case tested, we don't know what the legality is. When that happens, and if it is determined that what I am doing is officially illegal, I will have to re-think my strategy. But again, and in my opinion, I think if this case were to be pushed up the line of courts, Hollywood would eventually lose. And I don't think they want to take that chance.

But the reality is, and in my opinion, Hollywood could really care less about "me". If there are 5000 people doing what I am doing, the movie studios have lost ZERO new business. I'm not giving away or selling my ripped copy nor the original disc. Their target, and rightfully so, are the "duplicators" who sell "counterfeited" copies that have the potential to cut into studios income.

And Napster was most certainly taking away revenue by providing their original service.

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post #5115 of 5371 Old 08-29-2019, 08:49 AM
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Sure look at the lawsuits filed against end users and the settlements during Napster time
Napster was peer-to-peer file sharing network of copied content, none of the people downloading from that had physically purchased the original content - that's a completely different scenario to the one I outlined.
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post #5116 of 5371 Old 08-29-2019, 08:50 AM
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You have two laws that appear conflicting. On the one hand, you are allowed to make a personal backup copy. On the other, you are not allowed to circumvent copy protection. Until someone gets hauled into court and the case tested, we don't know what the legality is. When that happens, and if it is determined that what I am doing is officially illegal, I will have to re-think my strategy. But again, and in my opinion, I think if this case were to be pushed up the line of courts, Hollywood would eventually lose. And I don't think they want to take that chance.

But the reality is, and in my opinion, Hollywood could really care less about "me". If there are 5000 people doing what I am doing, the movie studios have lost ZERO new business. Their target, and rightfully so, are the "duplicators" who sell "counterfeited" copies that have the potential to cut into studios income.
Yeah. I think about the only time people get themselves into trouble is when they distribute said copies, like via torrents and what not.

For personal use in your own home, I don't think they even know about those, or really care enough to pursue. Just don't put that stuff out on there on the internet! Common sense.
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post #5117 of 5371 Old 08-29-2019, 08:52 AM
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Sure look at the lawsuits filed against end users and the settlements during Napster time
Napster was peer-to-peer file sharing network of copied content, none of the people downloading from that had physically purchased the original content - that's a completely different scenario to the one I outlined.
Then why are these software companies in Caymen Island and not in US ? Why is Nero not selling software to rip Blu Rays and 4K?
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post #5118 of 5371 Old 08-29-2019, 08:56 AM
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Sure look at the lawsuits filed against end users and the settlements during Napster time
Napster was peer-to-peer file sharing network of copied content, none of the people downloading from that had physically purchased the original content - that's a completely different scenario to the one I outlined.
Then why are these software companies in Caymen Island and not in US ? Why is Nero not selling software to rip Blu Rays and 4K?
https://torrentfreak.com/companies-w...awsuit-140314/
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post #5119 of 5371 Old 08-29-2019, 08:58 AM
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Sure look at the lawsuits filed against end users and the settlements during Napster time
Napster was peer-to-peer file sharing network of copied content, none of the people downloading from that had physically purchased the original content - that's a completely different scenario to the one I outlined.
Then why are these software companies in Caymen Island and not in US ? Why is Nero not selling software to rip Blu Rays and 4K?
My gripe about people comparing DIY to Kscape is that K did everything by the book and complied with all the laws . So they demand a premium for that . I don’t see anything wrong in it .

https://torrentfreak.com/companies-w...awsuit-140314/
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post #5120 of 5371 Old 08-29-2019, 09:09 AM
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Do you have a thread with your setup? Would love to see how you're doing it all so effectively.
Control4 and Lumagen control masking, lighting, (auto) aspect control, etc. And a Nvidia Shield/Plex allows me to organize my movies, have multiple different movie walls, watch previews of the movie, organize by genre, etc. And unlike the ever changing movie wall on Kaleidescape, mine is actually very useful. I do, however, miss the "scenes" function of the Kaleidescape system, but that is most certainly the only thing I miss.

The only negatives were the original ripping of about 500 movies, and learning how to use the software to rip the movies and set up my NAS. But, as I said, this is not an approach for the "masses". It is the techno-nerds on AVS and similar sites that choose to go this route. I have a calibration client who uses a Kaleidescape system and is more than capable of replicating what I have, and, on occasion thinks about doing what I have done. But he won't. He actually has a real life and doesn't choose to allocate the time necessary to put together such an approach. (even though he gets more than a bit miffed when he pays for and downloads an Atmos movie from the K Store only to find out it is recorded in 5.1 !!)

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post #5121 of 5371 Old 08-29-2019, 09:10 AM
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Then why are these software companies in Caymen Island and not in US ? Why is Nero not selling software to rip Blu Rays and 4K?
I have no idea, but it is not relevent to the example of the user ripping legally purchased content for their own purposes.

As with the above this is not relevant to the example I gave. As mentioned above this is a civil copyright case, not a matter of US law. Show me a case where a user who has ripped legally purchased content has faced a lawsuit. It would never stand up in court, not least because the copyright holder would be unable to establish a financial loss.

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My gripe about people comparing DIY to Kscape is that K did everything by the book and complied with all the laws . So they demand a premium for that . I don’t see anything wrong in it.
Of course there is nothing wrong with K's offering. By the same token there is nothing 'wrong' with an owner of legally purchased content making a copy for their own purposes. The comparison is a valid one because we all have easy access to either option, and all that is left is a trade-off between cost and convenience - which way the scales tip is entirely down to the individual.
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post #5122 of 5371 Old 08-29-2019, 09:14 AM
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My gripe about people comparing DIY to Kscape is that K did everything by the book and complied with all the laws . So they demand a premium for that . I don’t see anything wrong in it .
It isn't K's pricing that I object to. It is their continued pointing their fingers at others that is what keeps them from being able to offer the premium product for the premium price. And while I get their approach of not announcing future capabilities, given their past history of closing their doors, that silence gives many concerns about what may or may not be going on.

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post #5123 of 5371 Old 08-29-2019, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by tcramer View Post
If you have the Control 4 video matrix, honestly don't expect much by putting the Kscape in it unless you will only be watching non-HDR 4K. I have that matrix and it pretty much is only useful for sources that don't even do 4K or HDR. It can handle up to 4K 30 fps, but if you introduce any HDR into the mix it will fail.

I am testing the Atlona HDR-H2H-44MA which I think is a newer matrix switcher that C4 recommends: it is passing HDR from my Strato to 3 HDR capable displays

please take the high road in every post:do not respond to or quote a problematic post: report it
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post #5124 of 5371 Old 08-29-2019, 09:36 AM
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K has always stated that they strive to provide the best audio and video that they can obtain. Not sure they have officially pointed fingers, but please share where they have done that. They are a niche luxury market. Nothing like Apple, etc. They certainly can’t demand things from Studios. Assume they want to keep their relationships at the highest level and given what they have done, seems to be mostly working. Things like improved audio have to be delivered to them. They certainly can’t dictate studio priorities IMHO. Take Fox as a speculative example. My option is that the merger with Disney is likely the highest priority at this time. For all we know, they are planning to merge the business unit that provides the files to K. Why would they improve the audio when they might be closing down that part of the business and letting Disney handle. We don’t know what is going on for the merger. I’ve been involved in many during my career. SJ
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post #5125 of 5371 Old 08-29-2019, 10:18 AM
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K has always stated that they strive to provide the best audio and video that they can obtain. Not sure they have officially pointed fingers, but please share where they have done that. They are a niche luxury market. Nothing like Apple, etc. They certainly can’️t demand things from Studios. Assume they want to keep their relationships at the highest level and given what they have done, seems to be mostly working. Things like improved audio have to be delivered to them. They certainly can’️t dictate studio priorities IMHO. Take Fox as a speculative example. My option is that the merger with Disney is likely the highest priority at this time. For all we know, they are planning to merge the business unit that provides the files to K. Why would they improve the audio when they might be closing down that part of the business and letting Disney handle. We don’️t know what is going on for the merger. I’️ve been involved in many during my career. SJ
Completely agree
Don’t understand why people keep bashing them . They are not forcing anyone to buy their system or to keep it . Everyone is free to build their DIY . Don’t know what people accomplish bashing them here .
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post #5126 of 5371 Old 08-29-2019, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by SJHT View Post
K has always stated that they strive to provide the best audio and video that they can obtain. Not sure they have officially pointed fingers, but please share where they have done that. They are a niche luxury market. Nothing like Apple, etc. They certainly can’t demand things from Studios. Assume they want to keep their relationships at the highest level and given what they have done, seems to be mostly working. Things like improved audio have to be delivered to them. They certainly can’t dictate studio priorities IMHO. Take Fox as a speculative example. My option is that the merger with Disney is likely the highest priority at this time. For all we know, they are planning to merge the business unit that provides the files to K. Why would they improve the audio when they might be closing down that part of the business and letting Disney handle. We don’t know what is going on for the merger. I’ve been involved in many during my career. SJ
Well the issue with missing advanced audio codecs for 20th Century Fox and NBC Universal UHD has been a long term one, not something that unfortunately coincided with the Disney acquisition.

A number of HD versions used to have have the advanced codecs even though the UHD files didn't. Now those seem to have been downgraded for Fox, though NBCU seems to still have some.
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post #5127 of 5371 Old 08-29-2019, 11:19 AM
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Completely agree
Don’t understand why people keep bashing them . They are not forcing anyone to buy their system or to keep it . Everyone is free to build their DIY . Don’t know what people accomplish bashing them here .
Nicely stated! I don't get it either. It sometimes feels like it borders on trolling. Especially since the same things gets repeated ad nauseum.

When I started with Kaleidescape three years ago - the only studio providing 4K was Sony (if I recall correctly). Two of five major studios (Fox and Paramount) were not even in the movie store. Kaleidescape has made steady progress. There is no other solution that I know of that combines high-quality sources with this degree of simplicity. Every Friday I see what's new - pick a movie or two and am done. My guests LOVE using Kaleidescape. Is it a perfect system. No. Do I love it anyway. Yes. Do I enjoy it greatly. Absolutely!
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post #5128 of 5371 Old 08-29-2019, 11:24 AM
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With respect to all opinion ...

Always says about K close doors but what happen after K restart

Add strato c
Update the strato to the new model s
Costar hard and software to lumagen
Add more studio such paramount
Bring 4k from all major studio


So there are an improvement in there service and every co in the industry will have a bad time in there period the strong how survive

also end game as recent example double the size 66GB vs 103 GB so for us in projector area it’s important

Is this enough NO of course universal and fox immersive codec hope it resolve fast

For me K is the best playback device in the market now I have oppo 203 for 3D and some studio like mgm ..etc and APTV 4k for netflix and stream service only

I hope k satisfied the most of us coz it’s impossible every one will be satisfied and cedia must have some new news to update there service


It’s just an opinion


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post #5129 of 5371 Old 08-29-2019, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Well the issue with missing advanced audio codecs for 20th Century Fox and NBC Universal UHD has been a long term one, not something that unfortunately coincided with the Disney acquisition.

A number of HD versions used to have have the advanced codecs even though the UHD files didn't. Now those seem to have been downgraded for Fox, though NBCU seems to still have some.
Good point. I guess my main one is that we don't know studio business priorities and that likely has an impact on companies like K that depend on things from each of them. The merger was just one example of changing priorities that I'm sure studios have like any other business and I seriously doubt if K has any input.
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post #5130 of 5371 Old 08-29-2019, 12:03 PM
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I didn't mention this prior because I wanted to see if it actually materialized...

I was told about a month ago that K would be going live with a new studio on August 28th, and that there would be substantially more UHD titles than that studio currently has on disc. Most could probably infer which studio it is...

As of today, the 29th, no titles and no announcement.

I did specifically ask if this would be held as a CEDIA announcement (which frankly makes the most sense to me), and was told no, it would be launched the 28th, prior to CEDIA.

So let us see...
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