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post #5131 of 5368 Old 08-29-2019, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post
I didn't mention this prior because I wanted to see if it actually materialized...

I was told about a month ago that K would be going live with a new studio on August 28th, and that there would be substantially more UHD titles than that studio currently has on disc. Most could probably infer which studio it is...

As of today, the 29th, no titles and no announcement.

I did specifically ask if this would be held as a CEDIA announcement (which frankly makes the most sense to me), and was told no, it would be launched the 28th, prior to CEDIA.

So let us see...
I am curious. Are you getting your information from Kaleidescape directly or from a dealer?

I have heard things from Kaleidescape dealers from time to time that have been "dodgy" information. But the information I have received directly from Kaleidescape has generally been very accurate (although sometimes time frames have changed).

I do think it would be helpful to Kaleidescape if they were more open and communicative.
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post #5132 of 5368 Old 08-29-2019, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MovieRAV View Post
I am curious. Are you getting your information from Kaleidescape directly or from a dealer?

I have heard things from Kaleidescape dealers from time to time that have been "dodgy" information. But the information I have received directly from Kaleidescape has generally been very accurate (although sometimes time frames have changed).

I do think it would be helpful to Kaleidescape if they were more open and communicative.
K only
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post #5133 of 5368 Old 08-29-2019, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
I didn't mention this prior because I wanted to see if it actually materialized...

I was told about a month ago that K would be going live with a new studio on August 28th, and that there would be substantially more UHD titles than that studio currently has on disc. Most could probably infer which studio it is...

As of today, the 29th, no titles and no announcement.

I did specifically ask if this would be held as a CEDIA announcement (which frankly makes the most sense to me), and was told no, it would be launched the 28th, prior to CEDIA.

So let us see...
Did they mention what year?
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post #5134 of 5368 Old 08-29-2019, 01:15 PM
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I am testing the Atlona HDR-H2H-44MA which I think is a newer matrix switcher that C4 recommends: it is passing HDR from my Strato to 3 HDR capable displays
I have the HDR-EX-70c and it can be buggy sometimes. Usually involves changing inputs on projector to get a picture back. My original wiring is from 06...sometime I just need to bit the bullet and run a new hdmi cable. I replaced a Liberty Balun that was worse. Installers blame some of the dropouts on DirecTV.

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post #5135 of 5368 Old 08-29-2019, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
I didn't mention this prior because I wanted to see if it actually materialized...

I was told about a month ago that K would be going live with a new studio on August 28th, and that there would be substantially more UHD titles than that studio currently has on disc. Most could probably infer which studio it is...

As of today, the 29th, no titles and no announcement.

I did specifically ask if this would be held as a CEDIA announcement (which frankly makes the most sense to me), and was told no, it would be launched the 28th, prior to CEDIA.

So let us see...
Given your incessant (legitimate to some extent) bashing of KScape here on AVS, why would anyone in the know at KScape tell you anything?
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post #5136 of 5368 Old 08-29-2019, 02:15 PM
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Well the issue with missing advanced audio codecs for 20th Century Fox and NBC Universal UHD has been a long term one, not something that unfortunately coincided with the Disney acquisition.

A number of HD versions used to have have the advanced codecs even though the UHD files didn't. Now those seem to have been downgraded for Fox, though NBCU seems to still have some.
Not true. I have kept track of all the Fox HD titles with Atmos and they all still have still have the Atmos sound on the HD version. If you want to list a title that you think you have lost the Atmos track I can check again.

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post #5137 of 5368 Old 08-29-2019, 02:31 PM
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you know I was put off by K when the promised integration of the Strato was pulled: I sold the Strato

fast forward one year and I bought a new Strato S: truth is I missed it and there was nothing else that comes close for me

K is not perfect but if your budget allows, I think it is still the best thing out there
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post #5138 of 5368 Old 08-29-2019, 03:12 PM
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K only
You sure???? so far you/they are 3 for 3
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post #5139 of 5368 Old 08-29-2019, 03:33 PM
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Not true. I have kept track of all the Fox HD titles with Atmos and they all still have still have the Atmos sound on the HD version. If you want to list a title that you think you have lost the Atmos track I can check again.

John
Perhaps I am wrong on this... are these titles you own? If so, maybe what you purchased isn't altered which would really cross a line. I just did a cursory check of 10-15 Fox titles and no longer found one that had Atmos even for HD, but I've not kept a comprehensive list.
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post #5140 of 5368 Old 08-29-2019, 03:34 PM
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You sure???? so far you/they are 3 for 3
yes, sure lol
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post #5141 of 5368 Old 08-29-2019, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by markrubin View Post
you know I was put off by K when the promised integration of the Strato was pulled: I sold the Strato

fast forward one year and I bought a new Strato S: truth is I missed it and there was nothing else that comes close for me

K is not perfect but if your budget allows, I think it is still the best thing out there
Mark - I won't ever disagree that its a great solution on paper, and in several aspects of it current implementation. I'm not sure what your setup is, but I've invested quite a bit into a 9.1.6 Trinnov based system, so the promise of a content delivery platform supremely marketed and priced like K really needs to meet the highest standard, else it doesn't deserve a bullet-proof reputation. At the least, the legitimate deficiencies should not be minimized because sometimes, shining a light is required to clear the bugs out...

And given how I was pointedly misled, I will have an extra bright flashlight for a while I suppose.

I really do hope whoever goes to CEDIA does put their feet to their fire on these issues, with specifcity, because the remediation of them benefits all K users - conversely, continued ignorance or misdirections by K on these issue should serve as valuable information for all current or potential K clients.

Last edited by thrang; 08-29-2019 at 03:49 PM.
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post #5142 of 5368 Old 08-29-2019, 05:07 PM
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Interesting, maybe you got a newer version? I have the 10x10 as well and we have never gotten it to work with anything HDR. All of my displays it's connected to support HDR.
Check the "Compatibility Mode" in Composer and make sure it is enabled.

If it's not, then you will have issues where the Matrix will not pass through 4K HDR to the display as K will not detect the display and downgrade the image automatically.
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post #5143 of 5368 Old 08-29-2019, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post
you know I was put off by K when the promised integration of the Strato was pulled: I sold the Strato

fast forward one year and I bought a new Strato S: truth is I missed it and there was nothing else that comes close for me

K is not perfect but if your budget allows, I think it is still the best thing out there
Mark - I won't ever disagree that its a great solution on paper, and in several aspects of it current implementation. I'm not sure what your setup is, but I've invested quite a bit into a 9.1.6 Trinnov based system, so the promise of a content delivery platform supremely marketed and priced like K really needs to meet the highest standard, else it doesn't deserve a bullet-proof reputation. At the least, the legitimate deficiencies should not be minimized because sometimes, shining a light is required to clear the bugs out...

And given how I was pointedly misled, I will have an extra bright flashlight for a while I suppose.

I really do hope whoever goes to CEDIA does put their feet to their fire on these issues, with specifcity, because the remediation of them benefits all K users - conversely, continued ignorance or misdirections by K on these issue should serve as valuable information for all current or potential K clients.
It’s not a great solution on paper , it is in real , I mean in practical sense . We get it if you were lied to , you have the right to complain . But as others have mentioned K has good resale value , you can sell your system and move on to your DIY option . I still don’ t get it what is stopping you ?
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post #5144 of 5368 Old 08-29-2019, 05:18 PM
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It’s not a great solution on paper , it is in real , I mean in practical sense . We get it if you were lied to , you have the right to complain . But as others have mentioned K has good resale value , you can sell your system and move on to your DIY option . I still don’ t get it what is stopping you ?
and I said in several aspects of its current implementation....
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post #5145 of 5368 Old 08-29-2019, 06:28 PM
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Of course there is nothing wrong with K's offering. By the same token there is nothing 'wrong' with an owner of legally purchased content making a copy for their own purposes.

In the USA the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) makes it a Federal Criminal Offense to circumvent Digital Rights Management technology such as the encryption of data on DVD or BluRay discs.

It is legal to make a bit-for-bit copy of the original disc for backup purposes. However, those files would still be encrypted, and thus not readable by non-licensed software such as Plex or Kodi or whatever. As soon as you crack the encryption (the process commonly referred to as “ripping”) so that standard video player software can read it, you have violated Title I of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. 17 U.S.C. 1201.

Limited exemptions exist, enabling playback on non-licensed devices is not one such exemption.

Will you ever get caught? No. Is it illegal? Yes. There are plenty of people whose livelihood depends on not knowingly violating Federal law.

What you are doing is illegal. It’s about as damaging to society as going 5 over the speed limit. For 90% of people it doesn’t matter. But when you say it’s legal... you’re just flat wrong.




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post #5146 of 5368 Old 08-29-2019, 06:32 PM
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I am glad to hear about the new studio and advanced codecs and MA for K. The way I see it, the timing may be off, but they sure are coming. And I am happy about that.

When someone is lied to, it really would piss off anyone, Totally understandable. When you are comfortable with DIY and the inconveniences that go with it along with being fine about the gray area of legality of the whole thing, you have a cheaper alternative, that would make you happy. That’s fine too.

When folks do not fall into either of the above categories, they want a solution like K if they do not want to compromise to streaming. As far as I am concerned, the writing is on the wall. Studios will move to streaming and discs will die out. Maybe not in the next year, but few years down the line.

At that time, the alternative is something like K or streaming. If they do lossless audio streaming, that may kill K other than yacht market. If not, K will thrive as the quality alternative to streaming similar to how discs are today. I wish/hope Apple would buy K and keep it as quality alternative with streaming for the masses. Best of both worlds.

It’s only a matter of time before studios realize the benefits of digital delivery other than streaming and hopefully they will embrace K. The industry can do anyway at this time.

If K addresses the shortcomings and adds day and date release, that would be awesome for K as a company. Folks talking about K closing, need to realize why they closed and how they reopened. Their cash flow was the issue due to taking on unforeseen development that they banked on a third party for. Based on what I have heard, they have been in the black since then. Let’s see what CEDIA brings.
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post #5147 of 5368 Old 08-29-2019, 11:04 PM
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The couple things lacking on K are pretty huge, but people really underestimate how much goes into DIY media servers and the many many risks inherent with them.

The whole process relies on coders and companies with far more spotty and unstable history than K. It relies on defeating copy protection schema that have and will change again. AACS 2.1 almost took down the hobby. It assumes disc releases will be plentiful in the future (less and less likely, K already has 250+ more movies in 4k than on disc). Then add up the hours spent ripping, more so if you do MKV, and I still content at least half the people here and other places making MKVs are missing proper forced subtitles in some portion of their rips and making other mistakes. Don't want to do MKV and want to rip full ISO to ensure proper content? Well, not many playback options (Russian/Asian jailbroken firmware on a now out of production Oppo navigating with a kludgy/ugly network browser is your best bet). Most of the setup us DIYers have too would never be maintainable and in some cases even usable by our families. That said, sometimes it's fun tinkering, but sometimes it's really a pain.

K delivers (sans some specific audio codecs on some releases) all that quality without all that risk and work, but it costs. Hopefully it will cost a lot less with MA.

Every time I get a disc, rip a disc, or jump through extra steps to get a ripped movie playing on my theater during a movie night, I keep asking myself WTF am I doing. Just pay the money, get the movie on K, press 2 buttons to download it, and 2 buttons to play it and make your life simple.

For audioguy as well, in the latest kOS, you can set the movie wall to a static alphabetical order. It's an option. So no more shuffling. Similar navigation, but movies are shown in a fixed order up and down and left to right.

That said, if I added up all my hours and dollars spent ripping, tinkering, maintaining, changing, and so on over the years, I would have more than enough money to add a 40TB Terra to my Strato without question. Plus who really, truly wants to buy, keep, and even bother handling physical media nowadays when we have options like K.

I look at Google Stadia coming for games too and really question my building custom PCs for gaming when for $10/month, I'll have 4k/60 gaming at my fingertips on any screen and no effort. Parallel ideas there, but at least a gaming PC once built and running is an integrated system with legit storefronts and so on.

I'm assuming the studio mentioned for 8/28 is MGM as well. With potential for lots more UHD content, that means we could see the whole gamut of Bond films and such. That would be amazing on K (given the entire collection is 4K on iTunes and the latest films are slated for UHD disc now).

Building on some earlier points too, K did what feels like a lot in 2018 and early 2019. There was a ton of growth in the store in that time from major studios to massive amounts of 4K/HDR stuff. The last several months have added only a little thought at nowhere near the same pace. In the meantime, we have major omissions that owners are demanding, so the silence really unnerves people. Again, I'm still holding out a lot of hope (ideally not too much) for CEDIA and big things very soon.

My gut tells me K is still the best long term option to compliment an Apple TV for content ownership and viewing in a high end system, and that going with K will pay off in the long run when the DIY scene inevitably hits one or more roadblocks. I would love to see, but don't really expect Apple or others to jump bitrates by 2-3x and add lossless audio any time soon, so K is it.

K really too has so much potential. There's so much they can do in software features and future hardware if they have the vision and make the investment to bring it to us.

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post #5148 of 5368 Old 08-30-2019, 07:07 AM
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I'm hopeful some of these gaps will be filled soon. I suspect we may hear something on or before CEDIA.

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post #5149 of 5368 Old 08-30-2019, 08:39 AM
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These "conversations" would not exist if Kaleidescape was truly a complete system. I've owned a Strato for 3 years and want it to work badly. We have a very nice theater and want the highest audio/video quality, to include Movies Anywhere Rights. To obtain that we are still buying physical discs for every new title. Something is very wrong with that.

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post #5150 of 5368 Old 08-30-2019, 08:39 AM
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I'm hopeful some of these gaps will be filled soon. I suspect we may hear something on or before CEDIA.


All the owners are hope I wish K give us a hint before cedia that there will be something


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post #5151 of 5368 Old 08-30-2019, 09:15 AM
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Kaleidescape vs. DIY (Ripping)

Other people have noted this but I thought it would be good to point this out as it has a direct bearing on the DIY solution.

There are currently 232 4K titles on K that are not available in 4K on disc. Over the past year that I have been tracking this, this number has been increasing at the rate of 6.2 titles/month added to the store that are not available in 4K on disc. Over this time period there have been exactly four (4) titles added on disc from this list - these titles are not being back-filled.

With the trend toward streaming, I agree with the people who suggest that discs will be going away eventually and that there will be an increase in 4K titles that are not offered on disc. The studios have shown that with 4K they are very sensitive to cracking of the encryption of these titles so I expect this to accelerate the process.

Long term (and short term also depending on your usage) RIPing discs does not seem to be a viable solution. YMMV.

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post #5152 of 5368 Old 08-30-2019, 11:11 AM
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The more this dialogue continues, I’m building up more resolve in myself to say I’m re-quitting DiY in favor of the real virtues of K even if we don’t get MA next week (but we better get it).

If it comes, then it’s a real slam dunk decision for me.


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post #5153 of 5368 Old 08-30-2019, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Aareses View Post
These "conversations" would not exist if Kaleidescape was truly a complete system. I've owned a Strato for 3 years and want it to work badly. We have a very nice theater and want the highest audio/video quality, to include Movies Anywhere Rights. To obtain that we are still buying physical discs for every new title. Something is very wrong with that.
So you didn’t know about these shortcomings before you bought strato
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post #5154 of 5368 Old 08-30-2019, 11:25 PM
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So you didn’t know about these shortcomings before you bought strato
Three years ago Movies Anywhere did not exist. Ultraviolet was supported.

I spoke with Kaleidescape directly before purchasing. As part of that conversation, I was told they planned to continue supporting digital rights and should have the highest quality audio and video on all titles "soon".

I guess it's my bad for assuming "soon" meant more than three years and that when Ultraviolet went away K would support Movies Anywhere since they "planned to continue supporting digital rights".
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post #5155 of 5368 Old 08-31-2019, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post
I didn't mention this prior because I wanted to see if it actually materialized...

I was told about a month ago that K would be going live with a new studio on August 28th, and that there would be substantially more UHD titles than that studio currently has on disc. Most could probably infer which studio it is...

As of today, the 29th, no titles and no announcement.

I did specifically ask if this would be held as a CEDIA announcement (which frankly makes the most sense to me), and was told no, it would be launched the 28th, prior to CEDIA.

So let us see...

The way it’s going over at Kscape, I wouldn’t be surprised if their only announcement is that “They are the chosen one, king of all the media formats”.
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post #5156 of 5368 Old 09-03-2019, 05:31 AM
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The way it’s going over at Kscape, I wouldn’t be surprised if their only announcement is that “They are the chosen one, king of all the media formats”.
No announcements so far. You maybe right . Let’s see what happens next week.
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post #5157 of 5368 Old 09-04-2019, 06:55 PM
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Less than a week. My hopes are still high.


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post #5158 of 5368 Old 09-05-2019, 01:40 AM
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Less than a week. My hopes are still high.


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post #5159 of 5368 Old 09-05-2019, 03:49 AM
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Kaleidescape vs. DIY (Ripping)
That topic should have it's own thread and all discussions of it moved there.

Also maybe Kaliedescape vs ATV4K because I find ATV4K offers a legal non DIY solution that competes very well against K systems. I build my collection in iTunes. It's not the quality of discs but it's very high quality that I find enjoyable even on a projection based dedicated home theater system.


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Last edited by Brian Hampton; 09-05-2019 at 03:58 AM.
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post #5160 of 5368 Old 09-05-2019, 08:02 AM
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Also maybe Kaliedescape vs ATV4K because I find ATV4K offers a legal non DIY solution that competes very well against K systems. I build my collection in iTunes. It's not the quality of discs but it's very high quality that I find enjoyable even on a projection based dedicated home theater system.


-Brian
Certainly a worthy debate! I'd get into why I still prefer one over the other as we've done ad nauseum in here, but you're right. That deserves its own thread really. I'm not onboard the ATV train even though I have extensive experience with them, and still prefer K, but I'll admit that ATV definitely has some worthy qualities to take into consideration.
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