Kaleidescape Strato Movie Player 4K HDR $4,500 - Page 187 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5581 of 5623 Old 02-12-2020, 10:21 AM
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That's typically because when you have a long-term tenant, landlords are not as likely to raise rent/rates because of the commitment of the tenant. Once they vacate, it's time to bring up to "market" levels. I have been a landlord for a while as has my family. Real Property is a completely different situation than consumer goods.
Off topic really, but I stated store was vacant for a while and then Landlord raised rent nothing to do with long-term tenant vacating. Now on to Kaleidescape.
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post #5582 of 5623 Old 02-12-2020, 11:34 AM
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It’s almost like K is heading back towards Premier pricing levels? My understanding is that Encore overall is less expensive than the original line. At least is was when first introduced. I think this has pulled in a different customer base then before with only Premier. As the costs rise, it is a different for these new customers as they might not have ventured into this solution which is targeted at the high end luxury market. So, if they get all the audio formats across studios, add MA, etc. would folks still purchase at this new price level? I’ve always heard that the store is the primary revenue generator long term vs. hardware. They still have a great 4K movie selection maybe beyond what is available on disc. Also, I doubt that Netflix, Amazon,etc. movies will ever be available on disc. So you are stuck streaming.... SJ
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post #5583 of 5623 Old 02-12-2020, 12:29 PM
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It’s almost like K is heading back towards Premier pricing levels? My understanding is that Encore overall is less expensive than the original line. At least is was when first introduced. I think this has pulled in a different customer base then before with only Premier. As the costs rise, it is a different for these new customers as they might not have ventured into this solution which is targeted at the high end luxury market. So, if they get all the audio formats across studios, add MA, etc. would folks still purchase at this new price level? I’ve always heard that the store is the primary revenue generator long term vs. hardware. They still have a great 4K movie selection maybe beyond what is available on disc. Also, I doubt that Netflix, Amazon,etc. movies will ever be available on disc. So you are stuck streaming.... SJ
The position being made by some is this is an MSRP increase only, to give dealers more margin. But the strategy seems malformed. If they price the systems into the stratosphere, dealers will make better margin on reduced-to-no sales. Yay. Or if dealer's then discount more to compensate for the very high MSRP, then there's no additional margin of significance.

Very short term, this feels like an effort to push fence-sitters into committing before the increase, which I'm sure some will do. Longer term, I truly don't get it - perhaps K is completely of the mind that people will buy it regardless of cost (which is ludicrous thinking for all but a very small percentage IMO).

As the distribution of content becomes much more fractured, how long does K keep getting titles (or in the case of streaming companies; how do they ever get the content?) So if not already, it will soon no longer be a core source for content, and along with the lack of MA (to preserve your content investment), and the lack of advanced codecs et.al), where are the tasty bits?. Once you have to go back to your Apple TV to watch content more and more, the benefit of the K system appreciably diminishes.

This feels like observing the last stages of nucleosynthesis pre-supernova.

So I am bummed. As an owner I hope I am completely wrong with this assessment - but I am bummed...

UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
Sony VPL-VW5000es • Panamorph Paladin DCR • Trinnov Altitude 32/24 • Crown DCIn amplifiers • JBL M2 (LCR-LW-RW) • JBL S2S-EX subwoofers x2 • JBL SCL-4 (side/rear surrounds) • JBL SCS12 (x4) SCS8 (x2) TH/RH/TM • Lumagen Radiance Pro • Panasonic UB820 • Apple TV 4k • Synology RAID (45 TB total storage) • RTI control system
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post #5584 of 5623 Old 02-12-2020, 02:29 PM
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This feels like the endgame for them - there has been almost no positive news on any front from K for a long time. (MGM aside, which was an appreciate albeit small release of titles - but nothing further since. And no clear idea on Bond..)

No word on missing 20th Century Fox and NBCU codecs for years (like Ford Vs Ferrari, Alita, and many others, I'm not looking forward to 1917 in non-Atmos), nothing on MA - and two significant price increases in less than a year (one allegedly for tariffs).

I cannot see a positive perspective to this summary unfortunately. I'm quite bummed about it...
Its safe to say just about everyone here very much wants Kaleidscape to succeed. It seems the way things are going, that is uncertain.

Kaleidescape makes revenue through hardware and online media sales. When UV was out, most consumers purchased their media through far less expensive means, most of which did not help Kaleidescape revenue. Now that UV is gone, Kaleidescape is getting far more revenue through online media sales. Not sure why many don't realize Kaleidescape is not motivated to align with Movies Anywhere. If they were doing well financially, MA would likely already be a done deal.

Poor communication from a company will only lead to speculation and uncertainty from its consumers. This could so easily be cleared up if Kaleidescape would communicate more effectively.

Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #5585 of 5623 Old 02-12-2020, 02:50 PM
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I also wonder about the long term success of MA in terms of obtaining digital rights with high-res disc sales (which is what compares to K movies). There seems to be less and less discs available. I don’t purchase many, but assume it’s primarily online. Best Buy has a very small section of mainly new releases. The rows and rows of blurays of years past is gone. With the exception of new releases, my family has been more content with watching movies via the various streaming services when a digital copy is needed (eg when traveling). Getting Disney+ really was a boost. Besides older titles in our previous UV library, there are lots of movies on the various services which we all likely have. Wonder if some studios will quit making discs at some point. SJ
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post #5586 of 5623 Old 02-12-2020, 04:46 PM
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I also wonder about the long term success of MA in terms of obtaining digital rights with high-res disc sales (which is what compares to K movies). There seems to be less and less discs available. I don’️t purchase many, but assume it’️s primarily online. Best Buy has a very small section of mainly new releases. The rows and rows of blurays of years past is gone. With the exception of new releases, my family has been more content with watching movies via the various streaming services when a digital copy is needed (eg when traveling). Getting Disney+ really was a boost. Besides older titles in our previous UV library, there are lots of movies on the various services which we all likely have. Wonder if some studios will quit making discs at some point. SJ
Absolutely - streaming is the future, if not the present - the hope would be be higher quality solutions like K would still be considered good secondary markets for the studios to monetize. But the volume is probably so small it’s a hard argument - and things like iTunes content is more than sufficient for a vast majority of the market

This begs a larger discussion about the future of high end in general of course (ie expensive processors, projectors, custom speakers etc)

UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
Sony VPL-VW5000es • Panamorph Paladin DCR • Trinnov Altitude 32/24 • Crown DCIn amplifiers • JBL M2 (LCR-LW-RW) • JBL S2S-EX subwoofers x2 • JBL SCL-4 (side/rear surrounds) • JBL SCS12 (x4) SCS8 (x2) TH/RH/TM • Lumagen Radiance Pro • Panasonic UB820 • Apple TV 4k • Synology RAID (45 TB total storage) • RTI control system
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post #5587 of 5623 Old 02-13-2020, 07:37 AM
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Its safe to say just about everyone here very much wants Kaleidscape to succeed. It seems the way things are going, that is uncertain.

Kaleidescape makes revenue through hardware and online media sales. When UV was out, most consumers purchased their media through far less expensive means, most of which did not help Kaleidescape revenue. Now that UV is gone, Kaleidescape is getting far more revenue through online media sales. Not sure why many don't realize Kaleidescape is not motivated to align with Movies Anywhere. If they were doing well financially, MA would likely already be a done deal.

Poor communication from a company will only lead to speculation and uncertainty from its consumers. This could so easily be cleared up if Kaleidescape would communicate more effectively.
I've always believed K is motivated to not pursue MA for the revenue reasons noted. It never made much sense that MA would be reluctant to add another partner... it only helps their model.

I did think the earlier price increase was partly to "bake in" potential lost revenue prior to an eventual MA announcement... but that hasn't happened.

They must make insane margins on their HW as they are not overly complicated devices. But once you saturate the market that's willing to/able to afford buying such high margin product, you need to figure out how to broaden your customer base. These MSRP increases will have the opposite affect.

Beyond that, they need some positive news (studio/streaming distribution deals, advanced audio codecs, MA, perhaps new technology [in-home streamer from K servers to computers/tablets on the LAN, music streamer integration, something...]) - and cost reductions to widen interest.

UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
Sony VPL-VW5000es • Panamorph Paladin DCR • Trinnov Altitude 32/24 • Crown DCIn amplifiers • JBL M2 (LCR-LW-RW) • JBL S2S-EX subwoofers x2 • JBL SCL-4 (side/rear surrounds) • JBL SCS12 (x4) SCS8 (x2) TH/RH/TM • Lumagen Radiance Pro • Panasonic UB820 • Apple TV 4k • Synology RAID (45 TB total storage) • RTI control system
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post #5588 of 5623 Old 02-13-2020, 07:47 AM
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I own and do like their products, but I have never understood the business model of K to be honest. They are right in thinking that the future is in connected devices and store will be their major source of revenue.

If that were the case, if it were me, I would do everything in my power to sell as many hardware devices as possible, even if that means a very thin profit marigin on hardware itself. This will help broaden the base and get more customers buying through the stores, which in turn will help profitability.

But K on the other hand, seem to be going out of their way to make sure this doesn’t become a mass market product, which I don’t get at all.

No idea what is happening with the latest price increases, but it does look like a move to increase profit for dealers.

I do think MA is dragging their feet and not K, based on the rollout of MA across various service providers. Advanced codecs is another shortcoming for K for the 2 studios. If they work out these 2, it will definitely help them.

Let’s see how this works out.
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post #5589 of 5623 Old 02-13-2020, 07:58 AM
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They will never be a mass-market, horizontal sale... but I look at Trinnov as an example of a wiser way. For the longest time, Trinnov only sold the very high-priced AL32. To broaden their market appeal and sell one level down, they introduced the AL16 for "relatively" much less money. And I think it's worked for them, as my dealer saw a great increase in sales due to the 16. And in turn this will eventually lead to a certain percentage of people upgrading to a 32 as their needs and finances allow.

I'm not saying the companies are identical, but K actually has an advantage of recurring revenue due to movie sales. Trinnov is a one and done sale. It "should" be easier and more sensible to K to make the base of the pyramid one level wider, not the tip one level higher.
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UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
Sony VPL-VW5000es • Panamorph Paladin DCR • Trinnov Altitude 32/24 • Crown DCIn amplifiers • JBL M2 (LCR-LW-RW) • JBL S2S-EX subwoofers x2 • JBL SCL-4 (side/rear surrounds) • JBL SCS12 (x4) SCS8 (x2) TH/RH/TM • Lumagen Radiance Pro • Panasonic UB820 • Apple TV 4k • Synology RAID (45 TB total storage) • RTI control system
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If my own buying decisions are any guide, streaming is K’s main competitor. Although streamed video and audio are still inferior to K’s offerings, they are close and getting closer all the time.
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post #5591 of 5623 Old 02-13-2020, 10:21 AM
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I think lossless audio for streaming is possible even today, of course not for majority with paltry broadband. With 5G, it will be possible to expand this.

Interesting times ahead.
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post #5592 of 5623 Old 02-13-2020, 10:32 AM
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I'm having an annoying issue with my Strato player. It works fine for long periods of time and then, out of the blue, it stops working. The HDR sign comes up on the TV as usual at the start of the movie, but then it's just a black screen. When I hit stop, a message flashes at the top before it goes back to the menus. I had to record a slow-motion video to be able to read it! It says "Secure connection to display could not be negotiated; check display/connection".

Note, that restarting the Strato fixes the issue. Apparently changing the "Select Video Behavior" to "Allow display mode changes" instead of the default makes it work again as well, but I don't know if that will last.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

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post #5593 of 5623 Old 02-13-2020, 11:03 AM
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I've always believed K is motivated to not pursue MA for the revenue reasons noted. It never made much sense that MA would be reluctant to add another partner... it only helps their model.
Exactly! I've been confused why others don't see that.


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I do think MA is dragging their feet and not K, based on the rollout of MA across various service providers. Advanced codecs is another shortcoming for K for the 2 studios. If they work out these 2, it will definitely help them.
October 12, 2017 - Movies Anywhere Re-Launch with Studio Support from Disney, 20th Century Fox, Sony Pictures, Universal Pictures, Warner Brothers and Lionsgate and Paramount Pictures expressing interest.

March 13, 2018 - Support for FandangoNow Added to Movies Anywhere.

August 6, 2018 - Support for Microsoft Movies & TV Added to Movies Anywhere.

December 5, 2018 - Support for Comcast Xfinity Added to Movies Anywhere.

It took approximately 5 months to add Fandango. Another 5 months to add Microsoft. Another 4 months to add Comcast.

It took just over a year for ALL the companies who had been previously linked to UltraViolet (UV) to be linked with Movies Anywhere. Two-and-a-half years later, Kaleidescape is still the only missing company that had been previously linked to UV.

Any .COM wants as many subscribers as possible because it makes their service more validated and thus valuable. The more traffic and subscribers they get to their site the more valuable the company. Movies Anywhere (MA) is no different. They aren't doing it for free either. MA is vested in getting any and every legitimate company on board as soon as possible. When Kaleidescape is now making HUGE margins on their online media sales, can you really say they motivated to be supported by MA?

Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #5594 of 5623 Old 02-13-2020, 11:37 AM
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Exactly! I've been confused why others don't see that.




October 12, 2017 - Movies Anywhere Re-Launch with Studio Support from Disney, 20th Century Fox, Sony Pictures, Universal Pictures, Warner Brothers and Lionsgate and Paramount Pictures expressing interest.

March 13, 2018 - Support for FandangoNow Added to Movies Anywhere.

August 6, 2018 - Support for Microsoft Movies & TV Added to Movies Anywhere.

December 5, 2018 - Support for Comcast Xfinity Added to Movies Anywhere.

It took approximately 5 months to add Fandango. Another 5 months to add Microsoft. Another 4 months to add Comcast.

It took just over a year for ALL the companies who had been previously linked to UltraViolet (UV) to be linked with Movies Anywhere. Two-and-a-half years later, Kaleidescape is still the only missing company that had been previously linked to UV.

Any .COM wants as many subscribers as possible because it makes their service more validated and thus valuable. The more traffic and subscribers they get to their site the more valuable the company. Movies Anywhere (MA) is no different. They aren't doing it for free either. MA is vested in getting any and every legitimate company on board as soon as possible. When Kaleidescape is now making HUGE margins on their online media sales, can you really say they motivated to be supported by MA?
Yet they will need to support this I think, especially since they closed once and people want to know that their investment in titles are protected outside the K world should things go south. And they did support UV.

If they baked in $500 or so into the HW costs (which, as I posted earlier, I thought may have been part of the impetus for the first price increase), they would cover a year or of lost direct sales due to MA. Not everyone will buy on MA either.

After that, they would have hopefully innovated to the point where they have more revenue streams. If not, they won't survive regardless. They cannot look at margin on their software sales as sustainable going forward. The market will not let them...

UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
Sony VPL-VW5000es • Panamorph Paladin DCR • Trinnov Altitude 32/24 • Crown DCIn amplifiers • JBL M2 (LCR-LW-RW) • JBL S2S-EX subwoofers x2 • JBL SCL-4 (side/rear surrounds) • JBL SCS12 (x4) SCS8 (x2) TH/RH/TM • Lumagen Radiance Pro • Panasonic UB820 • Apple TV 4k • Synology RAID (45 TB total storage) • RTI control system
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K's business model cannot compete with streaming and is not scalable: it is a niche business aimed at folks who can afford it, and are willing to pay a premium for it. K makes some elegant products and their screens and user interface is a step above: I hope K is able to stay around for a long time.
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post #5596 of 5623 Old 02-13-2020, 12:20 PM
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K's business model cannot compete with streaming and is not scalable: it is a niche business aimed at folks who can afford it, and are willing to pay a premium for it. K makes some elegant products and their screens and user interface is a step above: I hope K is able to stay around for a long time.
Me too, in a big way! I have a Strato. I think many are just hoping K gets MA and a few other things they say they have been working on for a few years.

Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #5597 of 5623 Old 02-13-2020, 02:37 PM
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If K added MA, I would spend way more money in the store, knowing my digital rights are safe(r).
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post #5598 of 5623 Old 02-13-2020, 02:38 PM
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If K added MA, I would spend way more money in the store, knowing my digital rights are safe(r).
Well, I think K fears if they had MA you would buy the movie on iTunes for $5-15 less, then watch the K version on your Strato!
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Well, I think K fears if they had MA you would buy the movie on iTunes for $5-15 less, then watch the K version on your Strato!
If they had MA, I'd be willing to pay a small Kscape fee to upgrade to the full resolution version.
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post #5600 of 5623 Old 02-13-2020, 03:22 PM
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If they had MA, I'd be willing to pay a small Kscape fee to upgrade to the full resolution version.
I don't think it works that way. If you buy the 4k HDR version on iTunes, you would be able to download/play the K-Scape equivalent - there is no qualitative versioning beyond specifying a 4k vs HD purchase for example.

Different providers offer different compression, but there would be no way for K to participate in MA but then say you have to pay a little more for "our" version. That would sort of defeat the MA concept

iTunes looks best to me compared to Vudu for example IMO - but I'm not paying more for the privilege of watching pple's "better" 4k version instead of Vudu's "inferior" 4k version. Purchase once, and watch the movie via any participating partner.

UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
Sony VPL-VW5000es • Panamorph Paladin DCR • Trinnov Altitude 32/24 • Crown DCIn amplifiers • JBL M2 (LCR-LW-RW) • JBL S2S-EX subwoofers x2 • JBL SCL-4 (side/rear surrounds) • JBL SCS12 (x4) SCS8 (x2) TH/RH/TM • Lumagen Radiance Pro • Panasonic UB820 • Apple TV 4k • Synology RAID (45 TB total storage) • RTI control system

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post #5601 of 5623 Old 02-15-2020, 01:17 PM
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Adding player to system - what K components can communicate with Strato / Terra?

I have a K StrAto 10TB and a 24TB Terra. I want to be able to access my movies to another TV.

Do I need a StrAto S or C or is there an older, maybe less costly discontinued K product that have an HDMI output to plug into my flat screen and pull movies from my Terra and StrAto? $3500 for a StrAto C is hard to swallow!

Thanks!

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post #5602 of 5623 Old 02-15-2020, 01:25 PM
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Adding player to system - what K components can communicate with Strato / Terra?

I have a K StrAto 10TB and a 24TB Terra. I want to be able to access my movies to another TV.

Do I need a StrAto S or C or is there an older, maybe less costly discontinued K product that have an HDMI output to plug into my flat screen and pull movies from my Terra and StrAto? $3500 for a StrAto C is hard to swallow!

Thanks!
Any Strato would give you the ability to access your movies. Just a question on whether you want to add additional storage to your overall system.
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post #5603 of 5623 Old 02-15-2020, 01:28 PM
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Any Strato would give you the ability to access your movies. Just a question on whether you want to add additional storage to your overall system.
Yes. But what about a cinema one, M500 or any other K player / K piece that could be had cheaper?

Thanks

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post #5604 of 5623 Old 02-15-2020, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJHT View Post
Any Strato would give you the ability to access your movies. Just a question on whether you want to add additional storage to your overall system.
Yes. But what about a cinema one, M500 or any other K player / K piece that could be had cheaper?

Thanks
But I don’t think they can play 4K though
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post #5605 of 5623 Old 02-15-2020, 01:31 PM
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Yes. But what about a cinema one, M500 or any other K player / K piece that could be had cheaper?

Thanks
Any Premier system component would not be able to access your Encore component’s movies. I guess the cheapest would be to add an Alto, but you would not have access to your 4K movies and would have to download 1080p versions. Find a used/older Strato. SJ
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post #5606 of 5623 Old 02-15-2020, 02:02 PM
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Another thing. Is there a way to add a scene to a script that is not already bookmarked in Kaleidescape menu? I guess you could call if a custom demo clip??

E.G. opening scene of Bladerunner 2049. This is not bookmarked in Kaleidescape. So, can I make my own demo scene and import into a script?
If so, how?

Thanks.

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #5607 of 5623 Old 02-15-2020, 02:10 PM
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While watching a move, hit the menu and scroll over to new scene, set start of new scene, then set end, etc...
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post #5608 of 5623 Old 02-15-2020, 02:36 PM
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While watching a move, hit the menu and scroll over to new scene, set start of new scene, then set end, etc...
Got it. And where can that clip be found? Sitting within the movies’s menu with the other bookmarks? Elsewhere?

Thanks!

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #5609 of 5623 Old 02-15-2020, 02:58 PM
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Got it. And where can that clip be found? Sitting within the movies’s menu with the other bookmarks? Elsewhere?

Thanks!
Yes, it will be added to the scenes for that particular movie. Just your own vs. what K might have created. SJ
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post #5610 of 5623 Old 02-15-2020, 03:12 PM
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Yes, it will be added to the scenes for that particular movie. Just your own vs. what K might have created. SJ
Awesome. Thanks!

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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