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post #1621 of 4960 Old 01-12-2017, 09:25 AM
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@jbm007 Just a suggestion. It wasn't necessary to copy the ENTIRE (and very long) list that Peter provided to ask your very relevant question
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post #1622 of 4960 Old 01-12-2017, 09:27 AM
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Didn't realize it.............. thought I hit quick reply.

My goof.
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post #1623 of 4960 Old 01-12-2017, 10:11 AM
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Guys, seriously, learn to use *spoiler* tags to avoid these ridiculously long posts please!

EDIT: Lol Chuck beat me to it!
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post #1624 of 4960 Old 01-12-2017, 11:01 AM
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Assume by "the clunker", you mean the disc server. Never thought about putting DVD Audios into it although it has mostly blurays at this time (accessed via Alto). However, I have some slots left and will try it out. Thanks. SJ
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post #1625 of 4960 Old 01-12-2017, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Guys, seriously, learn to use *spoiler* tags to avoid these ridiculously long posts please!

EDIT: Lol Chuck beat me to it!
Peter started it ............

Seriously the last thing I would ever want do is give Peter a bigger megaphone then he already has < grin>

Anyway I have downloaded all my DVD audio disc to my server and really wish K would offer a way of adding "digital audio" downloads to their store. Or link to another site with purchase capabilities thru K
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post #1626 of 4960 Old 01-14-2017, 07:21 AM
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Have any of you Strato owners bought the UHD HDR version of the Shallows from the Kscape store? If so, would appreciate if you could you tell me whether it has Atmos audio. The graphic for the file at the Kscape store is identical to the graphic on the front of the disk case for the shiny version, which has Atmos audio. The info for the film provided by the store says that the audio is only DTS-HD MA 5.1. If that is correct I will buy the shiny disk version from Amazon but if the store's version really has an Atmos soundtrack, I would much to prefer to buy it from Kscape.

HT setup: Sony 75XBR X940D UHD HDR TV; Kaleidescape Strato Movie Server 6 TB and Terra Server 24 TB; Yamaha RX-A3060 AV receiver; Sonamp 2-1 2channel 100W power amp; Crestron Control System; 2 Rythmik FV18 subwoofers, 6 Hsu HB-1 Bookshelf speakers, 1 Hsu HC-1 Center speaker, 4 Focal ICW8 in-ceiling Atmos speakers; Oppo UDP-203 4K HDR BD player; Mac Mini HTPC. TiVO Bolt 1TB DVR; TiVo Premiere Elite 2 TB DVR; Roku Premiere+
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post #1627 of 4960 Old 01-14-2017, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
Have any of you Strato owners bought the UHD HDR version of the Shallows from the Kscape store? If so, would appreciate if you could you tell me whether it has Atmos audio. The graphic for the file at the Kscape store is identical to the graphic on the front of the disk case for the shiny version, which has Atmos audio. The info for the film provided by the store says that the audio is only DTS-HD MA 5.1. If that is correct I will buy the shiny disk version from Amazon but if the store's version really has an Atmos soundtrack, I would much to prefer to buy it from Kscape.
It would be pretty sucky if K was reducing the quality of the audio on the products they offer vs the "shiny disc version" you can buy elsewhere. That would make no sense so let's hope, in your example, the version they sell actually has Atmos.
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post #1628 of 4960 Old 01-14-2017, 12:59 PM
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It would be pretty sucky if K was reducing the quality of the audio on the products they offer vs the "shiny disc version" you can buy elsewhere. That would make no sense so let's hope, in your example, the version they sell actually has Atmos.
Unfortunately, there are a number of titles, which are available with Atmos audio on disk but which in the Kscape store lack Atmos. The most recent title I know about is the 1080p version of Deepwater Horizon. I have both the UHD HDR and 1080p disks, which I bought from Amazon. Both have Atmos audio. I downloaded the 1080p quality version from the Kscape store because I had the UV rights, which gave me the right to do so at no additional cost. Alas, the Kscape version has only DTS-HD MA 5.1 audio. Don't know what is going on with the Kscape versions of these titles but it needs to be fixed, it seems to me.

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post #1629 of 4960 Old 01-15-2017, 01:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
Have any of you Strato owners bought the UHD HDR version of the Shallows from the Kscape store? If so, would appreciate if you could you tell me whether it has Atmos audio. The graphic for the file at the Kscape store is identical to the graphic on the front of the disk case for the shiny version, which has Atmos audio. The info for the film provided by the store says that the audio is only DTS-HD MA 5.1. If that is correct I will buy the shiny disk version from Amazon but if the store's version really has an Atmos soundtrack, I would much to prefer to buy it from Kscape.
It is NOT in Atmos, just checked.

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post #1630 of 4960 Old 01-15-2017, 04:28 AM
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@CINERAMAX Do you ever sleep? This last post says 4:20AM.
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post #1631 of 4960 Old 01-15-2017, 04:39 AM
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It is NOT in Atmos, just checked.






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post #1632 of 4960 Old 01-15-2017, 04:42 AM
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Can anyone explain the reason for this?
Why does Kscape offer less than what is available on a disc for audio or video?
Makes no sense for a "premium " priced product.


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post #1633 of 4960 Old 01-15-2017, 05:07 AM
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Can anyone explain the reason for this?
Why does Kscape offer less than what is available on a disc for audio or video?
Makes no sense for a "premium " priced product.


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I recommended previously that K get out in front of some of the questions that are being asked via some kind of corporate messaging: Their website or the K User Forum or a monthly mailer to their base or ....

They have up to this point chosen to be silent not only on this issue but also, for example, on why we have not seen current 4K titles (compared to other sources such as Amazon) and when might that happen and other questions that have been raised. One can only assume they have enough customers who don't have these kinds of questions and who are continuing to purchase K products regardless, and that they don't need to spend time responding to these kinds of issues. As I have stated more than once, I don't think AVS users are their target market. Not that they don't care about us but rather, we are such a small segment of their users and potential users and now that they have (even more) limited resources, they have chosen not to take resources from projects they deem more important.
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post #1634 of 4960 Old 01-15-2017, 12:16 PM
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It is NOT in Atmos, just checked.
Thanks! This is a problem that Kscape needs to address if they can. It seems to me that there is simply no excuse for Kscape having only a crippled version of what is available on disk. It’s probably the result of another paranoid and shortsighted studio limitation but it is costing Kscape much needed business. The Shallows is not the only title that is so crippled, there are quite a few more too. I hate it but for the moment I find I am going to have to limit my UHD HDR film buying to disks that include Atmos/DTS:X soundtracks.

I saw something else disappointing this morning. Got an email from Kscape advertising a new release of Julie & Julia, which is in UHD only and has only DTS-HD MA 5.1 audio. That just doesn’t get it.
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post #1635 of 4960 Old 01-15-2017, 12:37 PM
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Thanks! This is a problem that Kscape needs to address if they can. It seems to me that there is simply no excuse for Kscape having only a crippled version of what is available on disk. It’s probably the result of another paranoid and shortsighted studio limitation but it is costing Kscape much needed business. The Shallows is not the only title that is so crippled, there are quite a few more too. I hate it but for the moment I find I am going to have to limit my UHD HDR film buying to disks that include Atmos/DTS:X soundtracks.

I saw something else disappointing this morning. Got an email from Kscape advertising a new release of Julie & Julia, which is in UHD only and has only DTS-HD MA 5.1 audio. That just doesn’t get it.
So just wanted to get clarification on this.. KScape isn't offering Atmos on any of their titles that should have it or only missing for select studios?

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post #1636 of 4960 Old 01-15-2017, 01:41 PM
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I bought a very high end system without high end audio or video on most titles.

There are deals with many major studios. The Strato supports 4K/HDR video and Dolby Atmos audio. I'm perplexed why we don't have more Dolby Atmos and/or 4K/HDR titles from Kaleidescape with the current studio deals in place.

I just spent a bunch of money building a really nice (to me) theater with four ceiling speakers and a 3.9K projector. I bought the Strato to become disc-less with high end audio and video. After spending $4,500 to accomplish that, here I am stuck buying most of my titles from Amazon to get Atmos and/or 4K/HDR. I really like the Strato and the Kaleidescape concept, but I'm spending a lot more money and not getting what I thought I was.
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post #1637 of 4960 Old 01-15-2017, 02:23 PM
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I'm perplexed why we don't have more Dolby Atmos and/or 4K/HDR titles from Kaleidescape with the current studio deals in place.
I'm perplexed why we don't have some time frames or explanations for this situation. If they can't deliver the product, they can at least tell us the situation or when or why? But, NOTHING!!!!!
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post #1638 of 4960 Old 01-15-2017, 03:34 PM
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There should be full disclosure from Kaleidescape as to their limitations ,or business plan concerning this issue.


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post #1639 of 4960 Old 01-15-2017, 03:46 PM
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There should be full disclosure from Kaleidescape as to their limitations ,or business plan concerning this issue.
They don't "owe" us anything but given they shut down the company recently, it would be comforting - to say the least. Apparently they have no intentions of keeping us informed. They appear to be operating on the "just trust us" approach.
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post #1640 of 4960 Old 01-15-2017, 06:57 PM
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I bought a very high end system without high end audio or video on most titles.

There are deals with many major studios. The Strato supports 4K/HDR video and Dolby Atmos audio. I'm perplexed why we don't have more Dolby Atmos and/or 4K/HDR titles from Kaleidescape with the current studio deals in place.

I just spent a bunch of money building a really nice (to me) theater with four ceiling speakers and a 3.9K projector. I bought the Strato to become disc-less with high end audio and video. After spending $4,500 to accomplish that, here I am stuck buying most of my titles from Amazon to get Atmos and/or 4K/HDR. I really like the Strato and the Kaleidescape concept, but I'm spending a lot more money and not getting what I thought I was.

I understand and agree for the most part but a UHD player and some titles from amazon is chicken feed in the grand scheme. I hope for more from Kscape since I have a lot invested yet I still have both myself and expected to from the beginning.


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post #1641 of 4960 Old 01-15-2017, 07:27 PM
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I understand and agree for the most part but a UHD player and some titles from amazon is chicken feed in the grand scheme. I hope for more from Kscape since I have a lot invested yet I still have both myself and expected to from the beginning.
Art -- I agree that Kscape doesn't owe us anything. That said, though, seeing all of the titles that lack Atmos audio, although the disk versions have it, is frustrating. I don't mind paying for the disks I buy. Indeed I would be happier still to pay Kscape for the same titles from the Kscape store. It's this simple: compared to being able to buy a movie from Kscape, having to order it, wait for it, and then play it on a disk is a pain.

As frustrating as all of this has been, I continue to hope that Kscape can make deals with the studios to make most of the new releases that are available on disk available form the Kscape store in the same format.

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post #1642 of 4960 Old 01-15-2017, 07:57 PM
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Jim indicated some info coming out in the next few weeks. We shall see.... SJ
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post #1643 of 4960 Old 01-16-2017, 05:09 AM
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Art -- I agree that Kscape doesn't owe us anything. That said, though, seeing all of the titles that lack Atmos audio, although the disk versions have it, is frustrating. I don't mind paying for the disks I buy. Indeed I would be happier still to pay Kscape for the same titles from the Kscape store. It's this simple: compared to being able to buy a movie from Kscape, having to order it, wait for it, and then play it on a disk is a pain.

As frustrating as all of this has been, I continue to hope that Kscape can make deals with the studios to make most of the new releases that are available on disk available form the Kscape store in the same format.

No arguments there ... My Kscape system is for me a convenience device. I had 1200 movies when I purchased most of it and had lost track of where things were and what I had. I can sit down and call up anything in seconds . So I see things from a little different perspective than many others. I have a Sony 5000 and will be on a 16' wide screen in the next couple of weeks so HDR is out due to light constraints. I'm just now getting my Atmos set up in the works so that hasn't mattered either as yet.






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post #1644 of 4960 Old 01-16-2017, 05:43 AM
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No arguments there ... My Kscape system is for me a convenience device. I had 1200 movies when I purchased most of it and had lost track of where things were and what I had. I can sit down and call up anything in seconds . So I see things from a little different perspective than many others. I have a Sony 5000 and will be on a 16' wide screen in the next couple of weeks so HDR is out due to light constraints. I'm just now getting my Atmos set up in the works so that hasn't mattered either as yet.

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post #1645 of 4960 Old 01-16-2017, 06:14 AM
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Jim indicated some info coming out in the next few weeks. We shall see.... SJ
There will a statement from K, last time I checked it was still being drafted, and K is also very busy working on component and Store improvements, so exact timing was not discussed, but should be soon.

All of my contact with K tells me the company is fine and moving forward. For those that don't quite understand basic business concepts I share the following. When a company finds itself in a negative financial situation the cause is usually either an inability to service debt, or an inability to cover normal operating expenses (cash flow issues). Of course there are factors that can bring about either or both of these situations, and those need to be addressed if the situation is to be remedied. With K, it was cash flow, not debt. The company employed many highly paid engineers, and staff. All very skilled, and dedicated employees.

Unfortunately, business model changes, primarily the focus on the K Store, along with a change in suppliers and manufacturing changes to accommodate the inclusion of the Encore line, caused a strain on the cash flows. In addition, at just about the same time, a supplier was unable to fill a critical order for component parts related to the Encore line and this added to the cash flow problem. All of this led to the temporary shutdown we all experienced. Corrections were made, positive cash flows resumed, and the company continues to move forward, and is very optimistic about its future. Good things are coming to K but I'm not at liberty to say more. (Not trying to be "I know something you don't" here, I don't speak for K in any capacity, and do not want to state something that could change.)

The Store's operation is more complex than most people assume, the many, many contracts in play affect just about every aspect of the Store. Which versions of content K has for release is determined by the studios, NOT K (I've probably stated that in 20 posts). They continue to work with the Studios for additional content, and enhanced versions of the content they currently offer, and they add these to the Store as soon as available (keep in mind that their movie guide service adds different functions to the content and this adds a layer of additional time to get it available in the Store).

I can tell you that the current staff at K are dedicated to providing the very best in both products and services, and the priority is focused on moving the company forward. Statements about their specific plans, or financial condition, like just about every private company I know, will not likely be shared, but I do know that they want to update info regarding some already stated plans, and hopefully this will happen soon.



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post #1646 of 4960 Old 01-16-2017, 06:47 AM
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@JigLaw JigLaw I don't expect K to provide us any financial data (though it would be nice ). But I think there have been many reasonable questions raised that K needs to address - publicly. And sooner rather than later.

At a very high level, these are couple that I personally would like to see answers to:

1. What is the cause of K providing movies with downscaled audio vs what is available in the general market place? And what is the plan to address this issue? I don't care how convenient and awesome the K experience is (and it is), I refuse to purchase any movies from them that don't take advantage of all of the latest 3D audio opportunities when they are available elsewhere. I didn't invest in all of this 3D audio equipment (including the K equipment which currently include an Alto and a DV700 on the way), so that I could move technologically backwards - which is what K is asking me to do.

2. When might we begin to see much more current 4K material - that is also offered elsewhere - and that also includes the latest 3D audio when available elsewhere. And, with some level of granularity, what is the cause of this delay? And, IMO, "when" needs to have some detail behind it. An answer something like "prior to the beginning of 2018" I would find problematic, to say the least.

While I know they cut expenses (apparently primarily staff) to increase available cash flow, did they cut too thin? Maybe way too thin? As I have stated ad nauseam, (and this does not just apply to K), when a company does not address what their buying public views to be critical issues, then the buying public "makes up their own answers" to why those issues are not being addressed. And those answers are almost never positive. I have my version of what might be the case behind these items but I will keep them to myself.

Maybe others have a different list of items they want answers to, but this is my list.
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post #1647 of 4960 Old 01-16-2017, 06:54 AM
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Clearly Kal are having their hands tied some where along the lines by the studios with both the availability of 4K content, and content with Atmos tracks etc.

A simple solution to this would be a new version of the DV700 with a UHD drive in it, playable through the Strato!
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post #1648 of 4960 Old 01-16-2017, 07:06 AM
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A simple solution to this would be a new version of the DV700 with a UHD drive in it, playable through the Strato!
You are correct, and I would have already purchased one. But given their now clearly restricted and reduced workforce, I would not hold my breath until they get around to designing, building and delivering this product. Putting a UHD drive in the Strato (a 4K version of the Alto) would have addressed the same thing. The decision to not provide a K based UHD drive (somehow) could very well come back to bite them - hard.

If the studios are 100% to blame (I don't think that is even close to accurate) for their current dilemma, then K no longer controls their long term viability or destiny - the studios do - and that should be a scary thought to them - and us. A K UHD reader would have provided them (and us) time for the studios to play nice.

Interesting (but frightening) times !!!
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post #1649 of 4960 Old 01-16-2017, 07:15 AM
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You are correct, and I would have already purchased one. But given their now clearly restricted and reduced workforce, I would not hold my breath until they get around to designing, building and delivering this product. Putting a UHD drive in the Strato (a 4K version of the Alto) would have addressed the same thing. The decision to not provide a K based UHD drive (somehow) could very well come back to bite them - hard.
Its probably some way off, and may well never happen at all, but from a hardware stand point it shouldn't be too difficult once OEM UHD drives become more readily available.

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If the studios are 100% to blame (I don't think that is even close to accurate) for their current dilemma, then K no longer controls their long term viability or destiny - the studios do - and that should be a scary thought to them - and us. A K UHD reader would have provided them (and us) time for the studios to play nice.

Interesting (but frightening) times !!!
Out of interest, why don't you think that might be the reason for the content restrictions? What do you think is causing it? Surely if Kal were free to add the content to the store, they would?

If you look back over Kal's potted history, they have almost entirely been at the mercy of the studios - even for their hardware operability (being able to rip blu-rays as the main example).
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post #1650 of 4960 Old 01-16-2017, 07:30 AM
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Out of interest, why don't you think that might be the reason for the content restrictions? What do you think is causing it? Surely if Kal were free to add the content to the store, they would?
I thought I read somewhere that their are at least 2 steps involved: (1) getting permission from the studio to release the film AND (2) that the K delivered product (movie) is more than just a copy of a BluRay or UHD disc. That they do some proprietary processing to the movie. If that were not the case, then what could be the possible explanation for them not providing the same audio capabilities that are available elsewhere?

My number (2) may be incorrect and as I thought about your question, this is why I would like for K to answer our questions. Then, there will be no guessing as to the delay.
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