The McIntosh MX160 A/V Processor Owner's Thread - Page 122 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3631 of 3674 Old 01-12-2020, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by cn256 View Post
I've never been able to use that sub adjust tool. Even with the latest beta. It plays sound from my left speaker but not my single LFE sub. I've still had excellent results from RP with my sub without using it though. I suggest not worrying about it/skipping that step if it doesn't work for you.
The trouble is when I use the SUB adjust tool on the 160 it requires me to set the gain on my four PSA V1812 subs at zero, this cant ge right can it? The subs should really have some gain set shouldnt they, or is it ok to run them on zero? Mark or Joe can you comment please?

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post #3632 of 3674 Old 01-12-2020, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
This is correct, but only use this if you plan to run RoomPerfect again from scratch. The MX-160 has plenty of output on it's preouts (up to +18dBU). By having you minimize gain on the subwoofer amp you are allowing for more dynamic range on the SSP.

Murray, do your subs have XLR inputs or just RCA?
Thank you Mark, Im using RCAs on the subs.

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post #3633 of 3674 Old 01-12-2020, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Has anyone had problems with 3.6.3? On the MP-50 I had to factory default and rebuild for it to work properly.
Marc, thanks for your post about doing factory reset on the MP-50 forum. I did that a couple of days ago, after reading your post.

I was having some minor issues, overall, I sent an email to Joe summarizing what they were.

Prior to factory reset, I noticed that my front dolby enabled speakers weren't consistently playing sound when they were supposed to. I needed to switch inputs and back or switch post processing modes to get them to play. After reset that particular problem went away.

My other two issues were:
1. Related to Dolby enabled speakers: I have front and rear dolby enabled (DE) speakers. The front speakers play in Atmos, DTS-X, and upmixer modes, but no sound comes out from the rear speakers in any mode. I think that I might have momentarily had them working in Atmos mode at one point after the initial factory reset, but not the other modes. I no longer have the rear DEs working, except when using verify speakers or during the RP setup. I can't figure out how to get the rear DEs to work after much experimentation.

2: I had an AppleTV 4k issue when we watched the movie Willow on Disney+ the other night. I had Dolby upmixer enabled when I started the movie, and the center channel (including dialog) were completely missing. If I manually changed the post processing mode while watching it and switched back, then the center channel started working. I repeated that experiment starting the movie with Neural X and observed the same result of missing center channel audio that came back after manually changing the post processing mode.

--Chris
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post #3634 of 3674 Old 01-12-2020, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
The trouble is when I use the SUB adjust tool on the 160 it requires me to set the gain on my four PSA V1812 subs at zero, this cant ge right can it? The subs should really have some gain set shouldnt they, or is it ok to run them on zero? Mark or Joe can you comment please?
It should be fine. It's a gain adjustment and not a volume control. Chat with Tom V at PSA to confirm.
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post #3635 of 3674 Old 01-12-2020, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
It should be fine. It's a gain adjustment and not a volume control. Chat with Tom V at PSA to confirm.
Mark I asked Tom at PSA this.

Message: Thank you Tom for your help with Ticket #I4B8K. To recap, I have four V1812 subs up front with three MTM 210s. I have now added 3ft to the end result for the sub delays.... With the McIntosh MX160 prepro, one has to enter all the distances of the speakers and subs manually as its not automatic like audassyey. The also require you to set the sub level before you run Room Perfect. To set that sub level they first use some pink noise from the front left speaker, they prompt you when the level is correct, when so you move to NEXT. NEXT brings in noise from the subs and one sets the level from the subs, the only way my four V1812s are at the correct level for the MX160 is with all four gain controls on zero. This seems incredebly low to me even though I left all four gains on zero and ran Room Perfect. Leaving the four subs gains on zero is this aceptable or not? I listened to everything after the EQ and its sounds good but Im not really using the amps on the subs much am I?

His reply
It's usually best to avoid the extremes on any gain control in the signal
chain. On the processor side of things where is the subwoofer level
setting? This usually ranges from -12 to +12.


Im re doing RP again and have moved the four sub gain controls up from zero to 1/4 up from zero. Even thought using the sub setup in the MX160, states I should be using zero.
BTW does anyone ever do those couple of very close to wall measurements (5" or so) when doing RP like Lyngdorf say to do?
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post #3636 of 3674 Old 01-14-2020, 02:27 AM
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Marc Alexander thinks us guys who own the MX160 should have - trims for the levels not + as I do, can others please post there levels with Room Perfect on please.
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post #3637 of 3674 Old 01-14-2020, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
Marc Alexander thinks us guys who own the MX160 should have - trims for the levels not + as I do, can others please post there levels with Room Perfect on please.
Which version of the System software are you running?
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post #3638 of 3674 Old 01-14-2020, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Mx160/170 v3.6.6

Yes l, this was fast! Long weekend...

You know the drill:

3.6.6 Release Notes:
- Fixed missing Center channel on PCM multi-channel soundtracks.
- Fixed possible crash at system boot-up.
- RoomPerfect Focus position names are now correctly stored.
- Web page and front Info display would indicate 9.1.4 when decoding 9.1.6.

Send me a PM with your email and I will shoot it to you.

If I have sent you then before then just send me an email and I will reply with it.

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I have an amazing 995ES for sale. Send me a PM. :)
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post #3639 of 3674 Old 01-14-2020, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post
Yes l, this was fast! Long weekend...

You know the drill:

3.6.6 Release Notes:
- Fixed missing Center channel on PCM multi-channel soundtracks.
- Fixed possible crash at system boot-up.
- RoomPerfect Focus position names are now correctly stored.
- Web page and front Info display would indicate 9.1.4 when decoding 9.1.6.

Send me a PM with your email and I will shoot it to you.

If I have sent you then before then just send me an email and I will reply with it.

From MX160:
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post #3640 of 3674 Old 01-14-2020, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I did send it to a decent amount of people already. I apologize if you didn’t get it but again just send a PM with your email address and I will fire it to you. Oh and exactly how your email is so I can just tap on it and copy and paste.

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post #3641 of 3674 Old 01-14-2020, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post
I did send it to a decent amount of people already. I apologize if you didn’t get it but again just send a PM with your email address and I will fire it to you. Oh and exactly how your email is so I can just tap on it and copy and paste.

I’m unable to pm. when able, please forward the latest MX160 firmware to [email protected].
Thank you.
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post #3642 of 3674 Old 01-14-2020, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rgd29 View Post
I’m unable to pm. when able, please forward the latest MX160 firmware to [email protected].
Thank you.
On the way.

I have an amazing 995ES for sale. Send me a PM. :)
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post #3643 of 3674 Old 01-14-2020, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by cn256 View Post
Marc, thanks for your post about doing factory reset on the MP-50 forum. I did that a couple of days ago, after reading your post.

My other two issues were:
1. Related to Dolby enabled speakers: I have front and rear dolby enabled (DE) speakers. The front speakers play in Atmos, DTS-X, and upmixer modes, but no sound comes out from the rear speakers in any mode. I think that I might have momentarily had them working in Atmos mode at one point after the initial factory reset, but not the other modes. I no longer have the rear DEs working, except when using verify speakers or during the RP setup. I can't figure out how to get the rear DEs to work after much experimentation.

2: I had an AppleTV 4k issue when we watched the movie Willow on Disney+ the other night. I had Dolby upmixer enabled when I started the movie, and the center channel (including dialog) were completely missing. If I manually changed the post processing mode while watching it and switched back, then the center channel started working. I repeated that experiment starting the movie with Neural X and observed the same result of missing center channel audio that came back after manually changing the post processing mode.
I confirmed that the new firmware v3.6.6 fixes my issue two, but not issue one yet, which I didn't really expect yet based on today's release notes. However, I continue to enjoy my system and look forward to other improvements and bug fixes if they become available. Thanks!
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Originally Posted by cn256 View Post
I confirmed that the new firmware v3.6.6 fixes my issue two, but not issue one yet, which I didn't really expect yet based on today's release notes. However, I continue to enjoy my system and look forward to other improvements and bug fixes if they become available. Thanks!
Last I tested my Dolby enabled speakers, front only, they have never worked with anything but pcm and Dolby. I’m not sure that they are compatible with dts etc.
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post #3645 of 3674 Old 01-14-2020, 07:26 PM
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Last I tested my Dolby enabled speakers, front only, they have never worked with anything but pcm and Dolby. I’m not sure that they are compatible with dts etc.
.

I can say a bit more to clarify what I mean. From what I've observed the front DE worked with Atmos, Dolby upmixer, and DTS X in 3.0.9. Rear DE worked in all of these modes with v3.0.9, too.

One of the noticeable improvements in 3.6.3 and 3.6.6 is that the front DE are also working with Neural X. At least that's one observation that I've made so far. The rears, however, aren't working for me yet in any of the modes yet.
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Regarding setting “sub size” in speaker edit configuration function, my sub rep recommended setting it to 200 Hz in order to get the xover well above where the sub will cross it over at. I use REL subs. All channels have their own dedicated sub(s). Using the 4 aux outputs for L/R front and rear subs. All speakers are XL size with natural roll off on. Is the 200hz setting ok for the subs in this scenario. According to the Mc bass management doc, best as I can tell, this set up will still allow full range signal to pass to main speakers.

Also, why does my installer menu clip the edges of the image on my TV? Same thing happened with a different TV, both tv are LG OLED. Installer checked the aspect ratio settings in Tv menu and all looked good. I haven’t noticed any edge clipping of image watching tv, oppo, Apple TV etc.

Thx!




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If you set video out to 2160 from the video setup menu- that should do the trick.
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post #3648 of 3674 Old 01-15-2020, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by j3brow1 View Post
Regarding setting “sub size” in speaker edit configuration function, my sub rep recommended setting it to 200 Hz in order to get the xover well above where the sub will cross it over at. I use REL subs. All channels have their own dedicated sub(s). Using the 4 aux outputs for L/R front and rear subs. All speakers are XL size with natural roll off on. Is the 200hz setting ok for the subs in this scenario. According to the Mc bass management doc, best as I can tell, this set up will still allow full range signal to pass to main speakers.
200 Hz is good. However, with all your speakers set to XL there will be no bass-management bass directed to the subs. All of your speakers can't be full range. What do you have?
Quote:
Also, why does my installer menu clip the edges of the image on my TV? Same thing happened with a different TV, both tv are LG OLED. Installer checked the aspect ratio settings in Tv menu and all looked good. I haven’t noticed any edge clipping of image watching tv, oppo, Apple TV etc.





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Are you navigating the installer menu with the remote? Or, are you connecting via a web browser?

From rtings.com
Quote:
In the 'Aspect Ratio Settings' tab, we selected the 'Original' 'Aspect Ratio' with the 'Just Scan' option set to 'On' so that our HDMI input would be automatically matched to the screen without needing to change the 'overscan' setting from the source output setting.

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post #3649 of 3674 Old 01-16-2020, 10:06 AM
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The McIntosh MX160 A/V Processor Owner's Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
200 Hz is good. However, with all your speakers set to XL there will be no bass-management bass directed to the subs. All of your speakers can't be full range. What do you have?

Are you navigating the installer menu with the remote? Or, are you connecting via a web browser?

From rtings.com


Thank you Marc. I will try that setting.

The screenshot is on my LG TV and I am controlling the MX160 via the remote .... I’ve never tried connecting via a web browser. Don’t know how Or if I need to.

I have REL subwoofers.

REL, as you may well be aware, connect differently than most. All 5 channels on the floor each have their own dedicated sub which all receive the same signal as the speaker they are paired with .... rel connects via hi level leads to the amp terminals and via lo level XLR to the AV pre pro.

The XLR provides LFE to the subs and hi level Speakon connection provides the full range speaker signal to the subs.

AUX 1-4 are utilized to send LFE to the front 4 and rear 2 subs with the front L/R stacks jumping signal from bottom to top sub. I do not send LFE signal to the center channel sub, only full range signal off the amp terminal. The subs have separate gain controls for LFE and hi level inputs.

So yes, every channel is a true full range speaker and no redirected bass is needed as those subs are inherently receiving what would have been redirected bass.

I have 4 subs connected to the main L/R channels stacked 2x2, center channel has 1 sub, and L/R rear channels also each have their own sub.

I have not attempted my 1st run at RoomPerfect yet. But I will in near future. Dedicated media room build this past year. The room sounds great as is with room design and full room treatments but I’m sure RP will add its own improvements.








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Last edited by j3brow1; 01-16-2020 at 10:55 AM.
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post #3650 of 3674 Old 01-16-2020, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by j3brow1 View Post

The screenshot is on my LG TV and I am controlling the MX160 via the remote .... I’ve never tried connecting via a web browser. Don’t know how Or if I need to.
If you press the "INFO" button on your remote control and press it multiple times to cycle through the information that it displays on the Front of the MX160, it will display its IP address. If you type that into a web browser, then you get a much nicer interface for controlling and setting up everything. For example, from a web browser it's much nicer/more convenient for configuring RP and such. I recommend trying it.
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post #3651 of 3674 Old 01-16-2020, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j3brow1 View Post
I have REL subwoofers.

REL, as you may well be aware, connect differently than most. All 5 channels on the floor each have their own dedicated sub which all receive the same signal as the speaker they are paired with .... rel connects via hi level leads to the amp terminals and via lo level XLR to the AV pre pro.

The XLR provides LFE to the subs and hi level Speakon connection provides the full range speaker signal to the subs.

AUX 1-4 are utilized to send LFE to the front 4 and rear 2 subs with the front L/R stacks jumping signal from bottom to top sub. I do not send LFE signal to the center channel sub, only full range signal off the amp terminal. The subs have separate gain controls for LFE and hi level inputs.

So yes, every channel is a true full range speaker and no redirected bass is needed as those subs are inherently receiving what would have been redirected bass.

I have 4 subs connected to the main L/R channels stacked 2x2, center channel has 1 sub, and L/R rear channels also each have their own sub.

I have not attempted my 1st run at RoomPerfect yet. But I will in near future.
I am familiar (subs & sub integration is a specialty of mine). I'm sure it sounds great… but it will be even better if you relinquish the bass-management responsibilities to RoomPerfect. Are you interested?

Where are the subs placed in relationship to the corners? Your room dimensions? Sealed room or open-concept?
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post #3652 of 3674 Old 01-17-2020, 04:51 PM
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I am familiar (subs & sub integration is a specialty of mine). I'm sure it sounds great… but it will be even better if you relinquish the bass-management responsibilities to RoomPerfect. Are you interested?

Where are the subs placed in relationship to the corners? Your room dimensions? Sealed room or open-concept?
I’m interested in your opinion of my setup and settings, Marc. I’ve never been able to have the MX160 audio sound as good as my MX134 using the same speakers, though in a different home. I’m unable to pm and the communications would be best done by email. If you’re willing, my email is xxxxxxxxxxxx

Thank you

Robert

Last edited by rgd29; 01-18-2020 at 05:49 PM.
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post #3653 of 3674 Old 01-17-2020, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgd29 View Post
I’m interested in your opinion of my setup and settings, Marc. I’ve never been able to have the MX160 audio sound as good as my MX134 using the same speakers, though in a different home. I’m unable to pm and the communications would be best done by email. If you’re willing, my email is [email protected]

Thank you

Robert Donnan
Hey Robert can I just point out one of the most unwise things you can do on a public forum unfortunately is to openly post your personal email. You are opening yourself up to being bombarded by spam. If you’re unable to PM just get your post count up to 15, it’s pretty simple.

BTW in regards to your comment about not being able to get your MX160 to sound as good as your MX134 , I’m honestly flabbergasted. I can’t imagine what you’re doing when you configure and run RP to get a lesser sounding result. I think you need to probably get someone to guide you through it, if you’ve got no experience with room correction systems it’s probably not the best one to cut your teeth on...
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post #3654 of 3674 Old 01-18-2020, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgd29 View Post
I’m interested in your opinion of my setup and settings, Marc. I’ve never been able to have the MX160 audio sound as good as my MX134 using the same speakers, though in a different home. I’m unable to pm and the communications would be best done by email. If you’re willing, my email is XXXXXXXXXXXXX



Thank you



Robert Donnan
Robert, I have your email. You can edit your post and remove it.
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post #3655 of 3674 Old 01-18-2020, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post

BTW in regards to your comment about not being able to get your MX160 to sound as good as your MX134 , I’m honestly flabbergasted. I can’t imagine what you’re doing when you configure and run RP to get a lesser sounding result.
I can
Quote:
if you’ve got no experience with room correction systems it’s probably not the best one to cut your teeth on...
Why not?

How did you verify that your own RoomPerfect calibration is optimal?
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post #3656 of 3674 Old 01-18-2020, 12:12 PM
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McIntosh MS500

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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I can
Why not?

How did you verify that your own RoomPerfect calibration is optimal?
I don’t know if I need a new thread but I have an mx160 ms302 B& W 800’s + DB1 sub using oppo 205. My question relates to information on streaming DAC’s. Has anyone evaluated the MS 500? Other comments, recommends or hard data vs. the DAC in the oppo? Thanks Karl Allen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmacvan View Post
I don’t know if I need a new thread but I have an mx160 ms302 B& W 800’s + DB1 sub using oppo 205. My question relates to information on streaming DAC’s. Has anyone evaluated the MS 500? Other comments, recommends or hard data vs. the DAC in the oppo? Thanks Karl Allen
It doesn't exactly matter if you are using the MX160. RoomPerfect requires everything be converted to PCM. If you input analog, it will go through the MX160 ADC, RoomPerfect, then the PCM1796 DAC. It is best to utilize stay 100% digital through to the MX160.
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post #3658 of 3674 Old 01-18-2020, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
It doesn't exactly matter if you are using the MX160. RoomPerfect requires everything be converted to PCM. If you input analog, it will go through the MX160 ADC, RoomPerfect, then the PCM1796 DAC. It is best to utilize stay 100% digital through to the MX160.
Marc, Thanks for your quick response. I am confused since the McIntosh MS 500 indicates it is MX160 compatible. I am considering subscribing to Tidal for hi Rez and wonder if there would be a large difference streaming via the oppo205 vs. the $6k Mc.?
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post #3659 of 3674 Old 01-18-2020, 02:44 PM
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I picked up a MX160 about three weeks ago to replace my Classe SSP-800 (full story below if curious). I've read/skimmed all 122 pages here and picked up a wealth of knowledge (thanks to all who post here!). However, with my basic 5.1 system there are a couple of rudimentary questions I have that may not have been addressed in dealing with some of the more technical issues in the very impressive systems this group has. Hoping someone can provide some quick advice.


1) Need guidance on speaker size setup. Speaker specs are below. The MX160 manual provides "cut-off" frequencies for the sizes while I usually think of crossover frequencies for speaker-sizes as a point when frequency/decibels start to transition. Is it a true "hard" cut-off? If it's a crossover like I traditionally think of it, I'd probably just do Medium across the board, if not.... for my fronts Large would be 40 Hz (too low?) while Medium would be 80hz (too high?) - thus I should do custom? Suggested frequency?



Speakers (powered by Classe CA-5100):

R/L - Aerial Acoustics 5T Frequency Response 48 Hz – 25 kHz +/- 2 dB
C - Aerial Acoustics 7CC Frequency Response 55 Hz – 25 kHz +/- 2 dB
Surrounds - B&W CCM Cinema 7 Frequency Response 45 Hz – 50 kHz +/- 6 dB
Sub - Sumiko S.9 Low Response 25 Hz at -3 dB



2) 90% of my MX160 use is for TV or streaming content - not a lot of time for critical/enjoyable Blu-Ray or other higher quality viewing/listening. I've been leaving Dolby Upmix as the default post-processing because I watch enough material that is 2-channel (British shows on AcornTV, for instance), that the convenience of having is upmixed is nice. Question is - if the source content is DD 5.1 (or DD+ or similar), is the upmix negatively affecting the sound in any way? Or is it OK to just leave the post-processing always on? (Should I be considering Neural X or DTS Neo: Cinema?)


Thank you!


PS - the other details for those who have time to waste.... The SSP-800 always sounded fantastic. But lack of 4K pass-through plus a couple years of increasing glitchiness made it time to change it up. Of course, concurrent with me making the decision to change/upgrade, my dealer of 15 years closed their doors. I found one dealer in my city selling the MP-50 and another local "big-box" with whom I do other business (so I trust) with a MX-160 floor model available for $9,000 incl. a 3-year warranty. My co-worker has dealt with the MP-50 dealer and said they're unreliable....so MX-160 it was. The lack of Dolby Vision support doesn't bother me since I just use my Sony A1E internal apps if I want to ensure DV streaming content is preserved (with sound back to MX via optical). So far I love the unit. Unfortunately the installer wasn't as much of an expert as I would have hoped and after watching RP setup videos linked in this forum, I can say for sure I'll be re-running Room Perfect (as soon as my 2.5 year old stops watching the glorious sounds of Paw Patrol long enough for me to do so) My family room is part of an open-plan with my kitchen, so the perfect candidate for RP and even with a [email protected]$$ed install - huge improvement! Final note - I salivate reading about everyone's HT on here. Already asked my wife how old our daughters have to be before I turn their basement playroom into a dedicated HT....she said at least 10 years...
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post #3660 of 3674 Old 01-18-2020, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I can
Why not?

How did you verify that your own RoomPerfect calibration is optimal?
Yeah Marc I was being a tad dramatic there.., of course I can imagine how mistakes could be made to in RP setup to the detriment of system performance.

For one, RP has quite a lot of parameters to get right, having used more ‘consumer’ type RC systems like MCACC and to a slightly lesser degree Audessey, they are definitely a bit more straight forward and consumer DIY focused and friendly.

Having owned and used RP since my MX150 and also having had Steinway Lyngdorf equipment, I dare say I’m pretty well versed in getting results. Getting to 98% room knowledge is certainly a good start. Other than that without pulling out REW to measure every time, to my ears I have always gotten a result I’m pleased with. I’ve also been able to compare notes with trained installers from the local Lyngdorf distributors a couple of years back. This also compares to say having moved over from Audessey Pro and hearing a marked difference to my ears. That’s not to say there can’t be improvements had. Since the firmware updates of late and a desire to add some extra speaker customisations to my fronts and ceiling speakers that I haven’t had, I’ll be doing a fresh cal in the next week when I get time..
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Last edited by OzHDHT; 01-18-2020 at 06:00 PM.
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