$60,000 Dedicated Home Theater Build - Requesting Advice - Page 46 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1351 of 1442 Old 01-30-2017, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabident View Post
I have a similar checkerboard pattern. Nyal didn't spec the actual panels for my plan, but offered a few options for each type. There are 4 different types, using a minimum of 3 different manufactures. I have the builder & local AV shop coming onsite Wed to establish a scope of work for each. The AV shop would prefer to redo my acoustic treatment plan with Kinetics, possibly because Kinetics has an install team they can send out. They're also Quest AI design partners, so that's another fully supported option, and I think Quest may have installers as well. But I am wanting to stick with Nyal's design with RPG, Vic, and Auralex.

Kind of a long intro. But my question is for panel install... who do you think would be better? A skilled carpenter (builder) or the speaker / structured wiring installers (AV shop) ? I think normally the AV shop would handle it, which the builder seems to prefer. But AV shop doesn't sell or have any experience installing the panels in Nyal's plan. Who did you use?

Your room looks good with acoustic treatments 'naked'. I was on the fence which way to go with mine. Either buy more expensive acoustic treatments with a nice finished look, or get the ugly stuff and hide it all behind fabric track / wall. Did you price it both ways to see which was cheaper?
I too had several different types of panels, but from two manufacturers. Each room and system is different, so I would definitely stick with Nyal's plan. My room sounded significantly better after getting the panels installed. Talk to Nyal about RPG before you order.

I used Nyal's design with a combination of RPG and Listen Audio acoustic treatments. My contractor had never built a theater before, but he caught on very quickly with Nyal's guidance throughout the process. My contractor turned out very good quality work, so I decided to use him for the acoustic panels. He did an amazing job on them as the installation of my panels was not easy. Your best choice is a local person/company experienced in the installation, which it sounds like you don't have. Next best is to have guidance from Nyal and a good craftsman.

Several pages ago, I detailed my decision making process for the acoustic treatments and look of the room. I would have to go back and see which posts, but I'm sure you can easily find them. I contrasted a few different major looks and colors. I got a quote for the fabric wall look with hidden acoustic treatments. That quote was $22,000 just for the fabric walls! WOW! I said hell and NAH! Perhaps your design plan for fabric walls is more basic. If it is, it will likely be far less. Yes, I did price it both ways.

Fabric Walls + Acoustic Treatments about $29,000.

Finished Acoustic Treatments $11,500.

The problem for me with fabric walls was the "void" behind the fabric. It seemed like a lot of wasted space. We have children and didn't want to deal with indentations, rips, etc. in the locations where the wall wasn't solid. Meaning the places you put acoustic treatments will be solid. Where you don't have them will have a void.

When I started looking at "Plan B", I used Sketchup to remove the fabric walls and just put the treatments up. My wife and I liked the look even better than the original. That we saved close to $20,000 for a design we liked better, with solid walls all the way around, it was a no brainer.

Hope that helps.

Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #1352 of 1442 Old 01-30-2017, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
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rabident, here are some of the posts pertaining to fabric walls and acoustic treatments you may be interested in:

Post#
1147 (Page 39)
1156 (Page 39)
1164 (Page 39)
1181 (Page 40)
1246 (Page 42)
1262 (Page 43)
1310 (Page 44)
1327 (Page 45)
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Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #1353 of 1442 Old 03-27-2017, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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First the good news. Nyal will be coming out to calibrate the system soon. Stoked to have the system finally in it's finished phase. Steven Crabb will also be coming up to help me out with the lighting integration between my lighting system and iRule. He thinks he can make it work.

I am hopeful someone has a solution for a problem I've had with my projector mount. We did sound isolation with Kinetics WaveHangers and double layer of sheetrock with SoundDamp2 between layers. We have a soffit around the room, with lighting. The soffit was reinforced with 3/4" MDF where the projector is mounted.

The first project mount was installed, which had micro adjustments. When people walked across the floor upstairs, the projector shook enough to be distracting. We installed a Chief RPM mount directly to the soffit, which eliminated the projector shake when people walked upstairs. Unfortunately, the black bars (not projected image) barely hit the beam in the rear of the room, so during some scenes it was somewhat distracting to see a thin bright spot about 1" tall by 16" wide reflecting off the back of the structural beam.

We got a new Chief RPA Mount Kit Extension, which had a 3 inch, 1.5 inch diameter pole. We installed the plate and pole and connected the same projector mount to it. At volume, during major impacts the project shakes quite a bit now. Totally unacceptable. So, a change is needed. The current plate attached to the ceiling is 6" x 6" and had to be mounted .25" proud of the soffit in order to allow the projector to clear the rear wall and the acoustic treatment below it.

There are two possible solutions I am aware of:

First possibility would be to have my contractor cut a piece of 1 and 1/8" piece of finish MDF wood to the size of the RPM mount and paint it to match the soffit color. This lowers the projector by 1 and 1/8" and allows the RPM mount to be mounted without the 3" extension pole. When I had the RPM mounted directly to the soffit before, it is possible I was still experiencing the impact shaking of the projector, but just did not realize it. When the extension pole was added, it was hugely noticeable.

The second possibility is to buy a Chief RPM CMA 345, which is supposed to be an anti-shock/vibration mount.
https://www.milestone.com/products/c.../plates/cma345

This would require me to go to the plumbing store and find a NPT pipe with a diameter of 1.5", which should fit the Chief products. By using a 1.5" pipe, it would reduce the distance between the CMA345 mount and the RPM mount to .25" to .50" inch. The Chief support tech told me they typically use the CMA 345 mount for installations that have vibrations from people walking on the ceiling above and it typically resolves the issue. He was not sure it would resolve my issue with massive shocks and impacts from sub bass. The mount plate is 7.3" x 7.3" though, which may be a little too big.

I'm wondering if anyone has experience with this type of issue and would like to get opinions on the best way to go. There are probably better solutions, but what are they? We want to retain the ceiling mount and aren't crazy about adding a shelf on the rear wall.

Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #1354 of 1442 Old 03-27-2017, 02:13 PM
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I was thinking of your first solution, as you were describing the problem. Probably your easiest and quickest solution.

Did you buy the mount and/or pj from avscience.com?
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post #1355 of 1442 Old 03-27-2017, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post
I was thinking of your first solution, as you were describing the problem. Probably your easiest and quickest solution.

Did you buy the mount and/or pj from avscience.com?
The additional wood layer would be easiest for sure and just a one piece RPM mount, thus less moving parts. I'm wondering if the special mount (CMA345) would help mitigate impacts and vibrations more, even though its two pieces (RPM + CMA345). If so, it may be worth it to go through the extra time and expense.

I bought my equipment and seating from one company and thus got a good package deal. I spoke with AVScience before purchasing and they would have definitely been my choice to purchase from, if not for the package deal I received.

Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.

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post #1356 of 1442 Old 03-27-2017, 03:35 PM
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I might do a wood and rubber sandwich to try to remove some of the vibrations. It wouldn't be full isolation since the mounting screws would go through everything but it would help.

1/4" rubber
1/2" plywood
1/4" rubber
1/2" plywood

Mount that to the existing ceiling, trim with rubber or something for looks, and then mount the projector mount using 1.25" screws to go through both pieces of plywood while not going through the top layer of rubber. Then at least you'd get some isolation and vibration cancellation. I've had pretty good luck with isolating subs using a similar sandwich solution so hoping it would also work for you. And it would be cheap. If you could give me the measurements, I'd even send it to you.
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post #1357 of 1442 Old 03-27-2017, 03:55 PM
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Probably not your preferred aesthetic, but another AVS Forum member came up with a solution to the same problem which worked very well in isolating the projector from the room.

Build:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...l#post22775344

Installed:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...l#post22781344

It should be absolutely standard practice to structurally firm up the area above the projector, especially if there is heavy foot traffic. This would include laminating 3/4" plywood to the side of every joist with construction adhesive and nails...and then binding multiple joists together with blocking every 3 feet to share the vibration load which has now been minimized with this beefed-up structure.

Good luck!
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post #1358 of 1442 Old 03-28-2017, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
I might do a wood and rubber sandwich to try to remove some of the vibrations. It wouldn't be full isolation since the mounting screws would go through everything but it would help.

1/4" rubber
1/2" plywood
1/4" rubber
1/2" plywood

Mount that to the existing ceiling, trim with rubber or something for looks, and then mount the projector mount using 1.25" screws to go through both pieces of plywood while not going through the top layer of rubber. Then at least you'd get some isolation and vibration cancellation. I've had pretty good luck with isolating subs using a similar sandwich solution so hoping it would also work for you. And it would be cheap. If you could give me the measurements, I'd even send it to you.
David, that's brilliant! You're the man!! That may just work. The biggest problem I am getting is sudden impacts. For example on the opening scene of Mad Max there is an abrupt loud engine rumble and BOOM before the opening scene, then right at the opening scene another BAM. I am getting sizeable projector movement at louder volumes. Your idea is certainly better than mine of just putting up a 1 1/8" wood extension. I would love to take you up on your offer! I know you are just offering, because you're just awesome, but I insist on paying you for it.

The RPM mount is 6.5" x 5.5" where it physically connects to the ceiling. Here is the manual with diagrams. I'm also including some pictures of the RPM mount below. The part you see connected to just the projector (below the 3" pole ) was the mount we used with less vibrations. The pole and additional plate you see on the soffit were the added components. Those solved the problem of lowering the projector to clear the beam, but it added a lot of shake and vibration from sudden impacts

http://downloads.chiefmfg.com/MANUALS-I/RPM-I.pdf

Now that I think about it, this problem is actually your fault. You built your subs WAY too well! It is because of your products performing so well that I am getting all this massive bass. The crazy thing is, I have your subs and sub amps turned way down (about 5/20 on fronts and 4/20 on rears) and it's giving my projector grief. Don't get me wrong, I love it! It is your fault my projector is shaking though!!!

If the rubber/wood sandwich is only 1.25" tall, that should be enough to lower the projector enough to clear the beam and allow us to move it back up so it clears that acoustic treatment in the back. Then we can move the projector back a bit as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
Probably not your preferred aesthetic, but another AVS Forum member came up with a solution to the same problem which worked very well in isolating the projector from the room.

Build:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...l#post22775344

Installed:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...l#post22781344

It should be absolutely standard practice to structurally firm up the area above the projector, especially if there is heavy foot traffic. This would include laminating 3/4" plywood to the side of every joist with construction adhesive and nails...and then binding multiple joists together with blocking every 3 feet to share the vibration load which has now been minimized with this beefed-up structure.

Good luck!
Good advice. We did build up an extra sheet of 3/4" MDF above the projector, to screw the projector mount into. Unfortunately, I had no idea we would need to do anything else up there to brace it more. It just wasn't a thought I heard anywhere at the time. I am going to take David up on his offer to build a rubber and wood sandwich and try that. It seems the popular opinion that is the better of my two original options. I'm not sure how to make your concept work on a ceiling mount. Perhaps David can use some part of the techniques you linked to build it for a ceiling mounted installation. David is super creative!
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Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.

Last edited by Aareses; 03-28-2017 at 11:34 AM.
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post #1359 of 1442 Old 03-28-2017, 12:16 PM
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I would go the simplest route first and that is dgage's idea.

To use the other method, you would need to build a box to place the pj in.
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post #1360 of 1442 Old 04-06-2017, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Nyal arrived yesterday and is here again today to calibrate my system! It already looks and sounds SO MUCH better! More details to follow in coming days...
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Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #1361 of 1442 Old 04-06-2017, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aareses View Post
Nyal arrived yesterday and is here again today to calibrate my system! It already looks and sounds SO MUCH better! More details to follow in coming days...
Glad you finally were able to get Nyal over here to finish your room! Say hey to him for me.
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Thhat is one heck of a 60k theater, Hi Nyal!! Congrats!
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post #1363 of 1442 Old 04-07-2017, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Glad you finally were able to get Nyal over here to finish your room! Say hey to him for me.
Me too! The stars and planets finally aligned. Nyal said, "Hello"!

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Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
Thhat is one heck of a 60k theater, Hi Nyal!! Congrats!
Thank you! Nyal said Hi back!
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Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #1364 of 1442 Old 04-08-2017, 07:37 AM
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So how is the final result? Big difference?
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post #1365 of 1442 Old 04-08-2017, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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So how is the final result? Big difference?
HUGE! Posting below now.

Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #1366 of 1442 Old 04-08-2017, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Nyal Mellor is an avid AVS Forum contributor. He owns Acoustic Frontiers and holds some of home theater's highest certifications, such as HAA Level I & II, THX Video Level I & II, CEDIA EST I & II. Nyal designs, integrates and calibrates home theaters for people all around the country, including many AVS Forum Users.

AVS users giving me advice on these forums, highly recommended Nyal. I spoke with several home theater companies and then Nyal. I was lucky enough to have Nyal take on my home theater project, which started right here on this thread almost a year ago. Nyal interviewed me to understand my aspirations and goals for a home theater. He ended up designing my theater, including the room layout, acoustic design, HVAC design, low voltage design, electrical design and lighting design. He also assisted me in project management and helped come up with solutions to unforeseen issues during the build. My theater would not be close to as good, without all his advice and assistance.

This past week, Nyal arrived and saw my theater in person for the first time. He told me the theater looked good in pictures, but it is significantly better in person. He was very complimentary on the aesthetics and quality of craftmanship. He went on to say it was one of the nicer theaters he’s experienced and that we did a great job. Even though Nyal is very knowledgeable, he is very humble, gracious and down-to-earth. It was great getting to know him more, personally. He was fun to talk with and I learned a lot watching him work. Nyal allowed me to watch him for two-full days, describing what he was doing and why. Talk about insightful and fun!

The first day, Nyal started on the projector. He spent a lot of time showing me how it should look and the adjustments we could make. I learned how important a good base greyscale is and what levels should look like with the color overlay. After being educated, I could clearly see the differences. It was a huge change and so much nicer to watch. The content now has much better color, is more life-like, smoother and way more pleasant to watch! My HDR is fantastic to watch now. I really appreciated Nyal going through so many different profiles to make sure it was the right one for me.

After video, Nyal started working on the bass array. Bass is my “thing”, so I paid close attention. The first step was to dial in the four subs to work together as closely as possible. Next, he started doing some EQ on the low frequencies. He had a tool, which showed what the room and subs were doing together. I could clearly see the room was well designed and the sub response was very good. It showed how important good room design and having suitable equipment are interrelated. Seeing is believing! There were minimal dips and peaks, which Nyal smoothed out with little effort. When it came to levels, I insisted he calibrate the subs hotter than normal. The funny thing is, Nyal kept turning down the gains and levels on my subs. It made me nervous at first. On the front of the sub amp there are 20 increments (10 dots with a space between each) for volume gain. Nyal ended up putting both sub channels on 5 of 20, or one-quarter of the maximum volume. LOL! I have SO much bass capability, it’s REDONKULOUS! No, I did not over-purchase. I got way better performance and headroom with my subs and paid less than most other subs on the market!

Once the subs were all dialed in, Nyal said my subs far exceeded his expectations and he was very impressed with how well they performed. He said my theater is stacked and far better than most when it comes to low frequencies. He commented I have a crazy amount of headroom. My subs are killing it and hardly moving! The subs sounded great before, but oh MAN did they rock significantly more after Nyal was done. The bass was WAY tighter, crisper and more musical. I didn’t think 18” subs could be that tight. Like, seriously wow! I made some good changes to the subs and delay before, but Nyal’s integration on the subs took it to a whole new level! I absolutely love how big of a change Nyal made with my bass!!

The next step was to start correlating my side and rear speakers. Unfortunately, the rears and four sides were on two different processors, so Nyal had to do a quick re-wire job. That was not part of the deal, but Nyal did it anyway. With everything wired up correctly, Nyal began correlation of the two sets of sides and one set of rear speakers. This involved mixing some of those channels together in a very particular way. Secret sauce!?

On the second day, Nyal started EQ calibration for the speakers. He took time with each of my 13 speakers (and 4 subs) to properly crossover, eliminate the minimal dips and peaks, adjust levels, delays and develop a good curve. This process is time-consuming with so many speakers, but fortunately the good room design had established a great base, where minimal changes were needed. I got to hear it in this intermediate stage. My midbass increased substantially and information in the upper regions came to life. It was fun to hear things I hadn’t heard before! It sounded so much better…but Nyal wasn’t done yet.

The next process was to do an integration of all the speakers/subs. Nyal worked with some fancy equipment and then his ears, dialing in all the changes he previously made to blend together. After that process, Nyal had me audition on content I was familiar with and asked for my feedback on what I was hearing; what changes I wanted for my own “house curve”. It was awesome to hear new things! Sound blended better significantly with even better dynamics. The best words I can describe it with are powerful, clean and smooth. A huge improvement in sound quality!

Once that profile was completed, Nyal started the same process to create additional profiles for the room. I ended up with a profile for my front row, a balanced profile for both rows and a music profile. When I decided to build the theater, I didn’t think I would listen to music a lot, so I didn’t focus on that. Nyal’s music calibration was nothing short of Amazing! Like WOW! I couldn’t believe my ears. I truly didn’t think the sound could be THAT much better. It was immediately apparent and I told him to leave it right there…don’t touch it! I will be absolutely listening to music a lot more. Even my wife was amazed at the difference and she isn’t that discerning of a listener. She actually listened to music for an hour the night Nyal left. That’s saying something!

After the three profiles were complete, Nyal went back and had me audition each. We made slight modifications to the balanced profile, then he went back to each audio and video mode he calibrated, to finalize settings. He taught me how to make adjustments for future profiles I may want to add, most importantly, how to do it correctly.

I always knew I wanted to complete the build process with a calibration, but it’s expensive. I could have easily been content to stop after my build and have a great sounding theater, but I am sure glad I didn’t. Many of the changes were so dramatic, it was worth the money to make any one of those changes, individually. What I ended up getting were massive changes in all areas important to me. Yes, massive. I absolutely love the changes and am very glad I stayed the course with professional calibration!

I want to make sure Nyal understands how important he has been to the success and enjoyment of my theater. While I have received help from many people, some more than others, Nyal stands at the top of that list. He is the biggest reason my theater is so incredible in every way. If you get the opportunity to follow your dream, like I did, do it the right way and have Nyal Mellor help you make your dream be the best it can be!
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Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #1367 of 1442 Old 04-08-2017, 12:47 PM
 
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With everything wired up correctly, Nyal began correlation of the two sets of sides and one set of rear speakers. This involved mixing some of those channels together in a very particular way. Secret sauce!
I'll Byte! X-Power Steering. But I am cheating, Nyal told me. So happy for both of you guys. FELICIDADES!!!
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post #1368 of 1442 Old 04-09-2017, 06:57 AM
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I'm working on building my HT and i was going to put on wall left and right speakers. I was concerned about speaker to side wall distance but it looks like you have your in walls right at the side wall. Not an issue? Reflections all handled with acoustic panels?
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post #1369 of 1442 Old 04-09-2017, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cdnmiggy View Post
I'm working on building my HT and i was going to put on wall left and right speakers. I was concerned about speaker to side wall distance but it looks like you have your in walls right at the side wall. Not an issue? Reflections all handled with acoustic panels?
If I understand your question correctly, the issue isn't so much about how close your speaker is to the wall, but how close the speaker is to the listener. There is no issue putting your speakers in the wall if you do it properly. In fact, many build a baffle wall type situation for their in-wall speakers, which can enhance the speaker's performance. Every install is different, but in mine, the speaker reflections were handled with a good acoustic treatment design (by Nyal Mellor, Acoustic Frontiers).

Of course you can also take the concept and put speakers ON the wall. Installing speakers on the walls and ceiling was the concept on the original design. We changed it because we wanted all gear hidden.

Here are a few posts that cover some of the information about building and putting speakers inside the wall. Click the link and check out the following posts:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ult...l#post45219185

Post #1059
Post #1060
Post #1068
Post #1069
Post #1070
Post #1071

Hope that helps. More questions? Ask away!

Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.

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post #1370 of 1442 Old 04-09-2017, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Aareses View Post
If I understand your question correctly, the issue isn't so much about how close your speaker is to the wall, but how close the speaker is to the listener. There is no issue putting your speakers in the wall if you do it properly. In fact, many build a baffle wall type situation for their in-wall speakers, which can enhance the speaker's performance. Every install is different, but in mine, the speaker reflections were handled with a good acoustic treatment design (by Nyal Mellor, Acoustic Frontiers).

Of course you can also take the concept and put speakers ON the wall. Installing speakers on the walls and ceiling was the concept on the original design. We changed it because we wanted all gear hidden.

Here are a few posts that cover some of the information about building and putting speakers inside the wall. Click the link and check out the following posts:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ult...l#post45219185

Post #1059
Post #1060
Post #1068
Post #1069
Post #1070
Post #1071

Hope that helps. More questions? Ask away!
Sorry i was referring to the side walls with respect to speaker. It looked like your speakers were right up against the left and right walls. Not the rear wall. I was thinking the speaker would have a hard reflection off the side wall.
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post #1371 of 1442 Old 04-09-2017, 06:51 PM
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its amazing how a dialed in system compares to a diy set it and forget it system from a showroom floor. glad you are happy.

did you ever try to calibrate it yourself? or did you just pay the pro's? interested if your ability vs pro was so huge of a difference? or you just let the pro do it right the 1st time...

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
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post #1372 of 1442 Old 04-10-2017, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry i was referring to the side walls with respect to speaker. It looked like your speakers were right up against the left and right walls. Not the rear wall. I was thinking the speaker would have a hard reflection off the side wall.
The reflection was minimal due to good room design. Acoustic treatments brought it 100% into control.
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Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #1373 of 1442 Old 04-10-2017, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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its amazing how a dialed in system compares to a diy set it and forget it system from a showroom floor. glad you are happy.

did you ever try to calibrate it yourself? or did you just pay the pro's? interested if your ability vs pro was so huge of a difference? or you just let the pro do it right the 1st time...
Completely agree! Thanks.

I had no video experience, but did try to calibrate. My HD setting was "meh" and my HDR setting was "bleah". Both were better than the original out of the box though.

As for audio, in 1992 I placed 2nd in the Amateur 1001+ Watts division at the IASCA Finals. I have been an audio enthusiast since. With that experience, I did try to calibrate it myself. I did some good things and got many of the basics. It definitely sounded better once I tweaked it.

However, Nyal's good room design + expertise + specialized equipment allowed him to tweak the little details, which added up and took the system from good to great. The end result was dramatically different. Money well spent.
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Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #1374 of 1442 Old 04-24-2017, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
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The next step was to start correlating my side and rear speakers. Unfortunately, the rears and four sides were on two different processors, so Nyal had to do a quick re-wire job. That was not part of the deal, but Nyal did it anyway. With everything wired up correctly, Nyal began correlation of the two sets of sides and one set of rear speakers. This involved mixing some of those channels together in a very particular way. Secret sauce!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
I'll Byte! X-Power Steering. But I am cheating, Nyal told me.
Having a second pair of side surrounds in the region where the side stage ends and the rear stage begins (around 120 degrees azimuth), I can imagine using this pair to mix (decorrelated?) side and rear surround channels together, creating more envelopment and smoother transitions. Am I close?

A good idea and understanding lies at the base of every successful project.
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post #1375 of 1442 Old 04-24-2017, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Having a second pair of side surrounds in the region where the side stage ends and the rear stage begins (around 120 degrees azimuth), I can imagine using this pair to mix (decorrelated?) side and rear surround channels together, creating more envelopment and smoother transitions. Am I close?
Nyal said if he told me, he'd have to kill me, so I don't want to let on like I know much. He may come back and I don't want him to go all John Wick on me!

"De-correlated", correct. You are on the right path to the secret sauce, but don't tell anyone.
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Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #1376 of 1442 Old 05-01-2017, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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HUGE SHOUT OUT to @Ericglo and @ecrabb ! Ericglo mentioned three times over several months, I should contact Steven Crabb. I'm very glad Ericglo was persistent in his recommendation I contact Steven...

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Contact my buddy Steve Crabb (ecrabb on the forum). He is in Salt Lake somewhere. I am sure he knows of some other HT enthusiasts in the area.
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Not sure what you are going to do on controlling everything, but give my friend Crabb a call. He used to work for iRule and now works for Luxul. He can probably guide you on a good yet not expensive set up.
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As I mentioned way back when, you should get in contact with Steve Crabb.
I finally did and it was a huge help. THANK YOU Ericglo!!!

I contacted Steven several months ago. He was very nice and willing to help. He actually bought the same lighting controller I have just to test it out and see if he could make it work. He did. He came to visit me last Sunday and spent several hours at my house intercepting the lighting control codes. The codes weren't easy to decipher, but Steven made it work. The result is, now I can actually control my lighting system with my control system. I can use macros and do all the cool things I've always wanted. All my major components now work with my control system and it's awesome!

Countless hours were spent researching and trying to get a "lighting" guru to fix my lights. There were no expert lighting guys that could help. In the end, it all works well thanks to Steven Crabb and his generosity. None of it would have happened if Ericglo hadn't contributed to my thread and remained persistent in his recommendations. This was a huge deal to me! Thank you SO much, Ericglo and Steven!

Once again, this shows the power and benefits of the AVS community and all of the wonderful enthusiasts who help each other every day!
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Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #1377 of 1442 Old 05-01-2017, 04:30 PM
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Glad it worked out for you. Did he do anything with your iRule?

Having fun playing the new mobile game Volley Village
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post #1378 of 1442 Old 05-01-2017, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aareses View Post
HUGE SHOUT OUT to @Ericglo and @ecrabb ! Ericglo mentioned three times over several months, I should contact Steven Crabb. I'm very glad Ericglo was persistent in his recommendation I contact Steven...















I finally did and it was a huge help. THANK YOU Ericglo!!!



I contacted Steven several months ago. He was very nice and willing to help. He actually bought the same lighting controller I have just to test it out and see if he could make it work. He did. He came to visit me last Sunday and spent several hours at my house intercepting the lighting control codes. The codes weren't easy to decipher, but Steven made it work. The result is, now I can actually control my lighting system with my control system. I can use macros and do all the cool things I've always wanted. All my major components now work with my control system and it's awesome!



Countless hours were spent researching and trying to get a "lighting" guru to fix my lights. There were no expert lighting guys that could help. In the end, it all works well thanks to Steven Crabb and his generosity. None of it would have happened if Ericglo hadn't contributed to my thread and remained persistent in his recommendations. This was a huge deal to me! Thank you SO much, Ericglo and Steven!



Once again, this shows the power and benefits of the AVS community and all of the wonderful enthusiasts who help each other every day!


That's awesome!


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post #1379 of 1442 Old 05-01-2017, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Glad it worked out for you. Did he do anything with your iRule?
He used a MAC and a few different software tools to intercept the packets sent to my proprietary lighting controller. After capturing the traffic between the proprietary controller's iOS app and the controller, we had the hex codes. We were then able to decipher most of the important commands I needed to successfully integrate the proprietary lighting controller into iRule. I now have on/off for each zone, on/off for all zones, four scenes (limit of controller) and a "party" mode button, which moves through the different colors on the LED lights. I can still use the proprietary iOS app to reprogram scenes, then the same commands we captured work for the different scenes.

After Steven left, I went to town automating simple processes, like when I push play, my movie scene comes on. When I press stop, another scene comes on. When I power on the system, the lights come on. When I power it down, the lights go off after a 10 second delay. Bunch of other stuff as well, but suffice it to say, having lighting control with iRule now is a game changer and a HUGE quality of life upgrade in theater terms!
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Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #1380 of 1442 Old 05-02-2017, 09:02 AM
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I guess I should have understood that the lighting was integrated into the iRule. That is cool that everything is coming together.

Having fun playing the new mobile game Volley Village
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