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post #1381 of 1442 Old 05-18-2017, 11:33 PM
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I contacted Steven several months ago. He was very nice and willing to help. He actually bought the same lighting controller I have just to test it out and see if he could make it work. He did. He came to visit me last Sunday and spent several hours at my house intercepting the lighting control codes. The codes weren't easy to decipher, but Steven made it work. The result is, now I can actually control my lighting system with my control system. I can use macros and do all the cool things I've always wanted. All my major components now work with my control system and it's awesome!

Countless hours were spent researching and trying to get a "lighting" guru to fix my lights. There were no expert lighting guys that could help. In the end, it all works well thanks to Steven Crabb and his generosity. None of it would have happened if Ericglo hadn't contributed to my thread and remained persistent in his recommendations. This was a huge deal to me! Thank you SO much, Ericglo and Steven!
Thanks for the shoutout, Andrew! I'm glad I could help get things working a little better for you. It was a pleasure meeting you, seeing your theater, and giving you a hand with the lights.

The room turned out really beautifully. It was obvious that you spent a lot of time and effort designing every detail and building the room. The fit and finish are outstanding. The design is unique and very tasteful. I loved it! Honestly, it's one of the nicest rooms I've ever been in, and I've been in quite a few home theaters over the years. The sound is excellent, and it's really an experience watching movies in that room. Just the way it should be. Kudos! I'm sure and your family will enjoy many years of movies in that room! I know I would!

I'm not on AVS much any more these days, but hope to see you again some time!

Cheers,
SC
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post #1382 of 1442 Old 05-19-2017, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ecrabb View Post
Thanks for the shoutout, Andrew! I'm glad I could help get things working a little better for you. It was a pleasure meeting you, seeing your theater, and giving you a hand with the lights.

The room turned out really beautifully. It was obvious that you spent a lot of time and effort designing every detail and building the room. The fit and finish are outstanding. The design is unique and very tasteful. I loved it! Honestly, it's one of the nicest rooms I've ever been in, and I've been in quite a few home theaters over the years. The sound is excellent, and it's really an experience watching movies in that room. Just the way it should be. Kudos! I'm sure and your family will enjoy many years of movies in that room! I know I would!

I'm not on AVS much any more these days, but hope to see you again some time!

Cheers,
SC
Thanks man. It was great meeting you too. Let's plan a movie night. For sure I'll see you come winter time!
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Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #1383 of 1442 Old 06-23-2017, 12:05 PM
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Aareses i stumbled onto your thread this morning, so are 5 cups of coffee 4 washroom breaks, had to order in lunch cause I couldn't move away from screen. Thanks for the best Friday I have had in a long time. Your attention to detail and the help you have provided for the community is priceless. The only question I have is, did the PJ revision work, did the vibrations stop, if so could you provide some pictures, if you have before you put the piece up and after?
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post #1384 of 1442 Old 06-26-2017, 12:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Aareses i stumbled onto your thread this morning, so are 5 cups of coffee 4 washroom breaks, had to order in lunch cause I couldn't move away from screen. Thanks for the best Friday I have had in a long time. Your attention to detail and the help you have provided for the community is priceless. The only question I have is, did the PJ revision work, did the vibrations stop, if so could you provide some pictures, if you have before you put the piece up and after?
Hahaha! Nice. I'm impressed you got through it all with only 4 washroom breaks. That's quite a feat! I spent a lot of time documenting so it would help others. I'm hopefull it will. Many here helped me.

After Nyal calibrated the subs, the vibration was cut down by about 90%. All of the subs are now working together, far tighter and cleaner. The projector no longer shakes during huge bass scenes. It was like magic in many ways. Now, I only notice smaller vibrations on the projector if someone closes the door hard or there are several people walking in the kitchen above the theater. Overall, I'm pretty happy with it and could be content to leave it alone..and I may.

Before Nyal calibrated, I purchased a Chief Mount structural ceiling plate, which is supposed to cut down on vibrations for Chief Mounts. David had also sent me a wood and rubber sandwich.

https://www.milestone.com/products/c.../plates/cma345

Life happened and I have had to put projects on hold. I am hopeful to finish my last small projects, including trying the new projector mount. If it will fit on the small soffit space I have, theoretically, it will reduce vibrations even further. Other than that, I just need to eliminate a small vibration during crazy bass scenes on my front sub speaker covers and then get some professional photos taken.

I'm 99.9% done now, hopefully 100% in a month or so. Well, that is until my next project, such as upgrading the projector to a RS520! Rawr!!!
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Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #1385 of 1442 Old 06-27-2017, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Aareses View Post
Hahaha! Nice. I'm impressed you got through it all with only 4 washroom breaks. That's quite a feat! I spent a lot of time documenting so it would help others. I'm hopefull it will. Many here helped me.

After Nyal calibrated the subs, the vibration was cut down by about 90%. All of the subs are now working together, far tighter and cleaner. The projector no longer shakes during huge bass scenes. It was like magic in many ways. Now, I only notice smaller vibrations on the projector if someone closes the door hard or there are several people walking in the kitchen above the theater. Overall, I'm pretty happy with it and could be content to leave it alone..and I may.

Before Nyal calibrated, I purchased a Chief Mount structural ceiling plate, which is supposed to cut down on vibrations for Chief Mounts. David had also sent me a wood and rubber sandwich.

https://www.milestone.com/products/c.../plates/cma345

Life happened and I have had to put projects on hold. I am hopeful to finish my last small projects, including trying the new projector mount. If it will fit on the small soffit space I have, theoretically, it will reduce vibrations even further. Other than that, I just need to eliminate a small vibration during crazy bass scenes on my front sub speaker covers and then get some professional photos taken.

I'm 99.9% done now, hopefully 100% in a month or so. Well, that is until my next project, such as upgrading the projector to a RS520! Rawr!!!
Do you use CMD(Frame interpolation) on your current rs400? If so, or if you ever intend on using it, I would definitely hold off on getting another pj until we see what comes out from JVC in the spring. The x20's have some pretty serious issues with vertical banding when CMD is engaged. Enough so that a ticket is open with JVC Japan to try and resolve the problem, although it's been months since that was open and progress on the issue seems to be spotty.
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post #1386 of 1442 Old 06-28-2017, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you use CMD(Frame interpolation) on your current rs400? If so, or if you ever intend on using it, I would definitely hold off on getting another pj until we see what comes out from JVC in the spring. The x20's have some pretty serious issues with vertical banding when CMD is engaged. Enough so that a ticket is open with JVC Japan to try and resolve the problem, although it's been months since that was open and progress on the issue seems to be spotty.
Don't use that, but I am definitely going to hold off since there are major issues with the 20s.

After Nyal calibrated the Gamma for HDR, it looks way better, but whenever the signal moves from HD to HDR, the Gamma has to be reset on the RS400/500/600 series. It's a big pain in the a$$! I was thinking the 20's series for a little bit more brightness, which will help the HDR picture and to get rid of the current annoyance of having to switch Gamma settings. It especially sucks running scripts on my Kaleidescape for demos.

Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #1387 of 1442 Old 06-29-2017, 07:25 AM
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Don't use that, but I am definitely going to hold off since there are major issues with the 20s.

After Nyal calibrated the Gamma for HDR, it looks way better, but whenever the signal moves from HD to HDR, the Gamma has to be reset on the RS400/500/600 series. It's a big pain in the a$$! I was thinking the 20's series for a little bit more brightness, which will help the HDR picture and to get rid of the current annoyance of having to switch Gamma settings. It especially sucks running scripts on my Kaleidescape for demos.
The added brightness is a farce with the x20's vs. the x00 series PJ's. The two EXCELLENT improvement however is the low lag gaming mode, and the extremely improved OOB HDR mode. A calibration is still a good suggestion, but the standard HDR gamma curve is drastically improved from what you got with the x00 series.
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post #1388 of 1442 Old 06-29-2017, 07:46 AM
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If you don't game, then wait to see what comes out at Cedia.
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post #1389 of 1442 Old 06-29-2017, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
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The added brightness is a farce with the x20's vs. the x00 series PJ's. The two EXCELLENT improvement however is the low lag gaming mode, and the extremely improved OOB HDR mode. A calibration is still a good suggestion, but the standard HDR gamma curve is drastically improved from what you got with the x00 series.
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If you don't game, then wait to see what comes out at Cedia.
Thanks for the heads up, gentlemen! It seems like the 20s' will give me no appreciable benefit. I'm going to wait for the next gen models to be announced. Hopefully they will have worked out all the major issues. On the other hand, maybe Sony will create a comparable solution with reasonable prices.

Appreciated!

Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #1390 of 1442 Old 06-29-2017, 11:21 AM
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It is possible Sony might have something up their sleeve. I wouldn't discount Epson either. They are due for an update.

Usually right after Cedia, AVscience has a pre-order.
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post #1391 of 1442 Old 06-30-2017, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I did a little (I stress little) experiment this morning to test how bad the projector was vibrating at different levels.

Source material was Game of Thrones, Season 2, Episode 9 (Blackwater), specifically the "Blackwater Bay" scene. It's the same scene used on the 2015 Dolby Atmos disc. I however, used the actual Blu-ray discs from the Steelbook Blu-rays, with Dolby Atmos. I played the scene from the single fire arrow shot, to the dropping of the mast off a ship into the water.

I used an iOS app "Decibel 10th" using my iPhone 7 Plus with a "Z" scale weighting. Here are the results with the volume knob setting listed first in bold:

0 (zero) dB
116.2 dB Max
108.9 dB Average

-10 dB
110.9 dB Max
104.0 dB Average

-15 dB
106.2 dB Max
99.1 dB Average

At -10 and -15, there were no noticeable vibrations on the projected image. I like it on the loud side and typically listen to movies with the family around -15 and by myself at -10.

At zero, I saw vibrations on the projected image. It wasn't huge, but was noticeable. I am guessing it's the projector mount. Possibly the screen or the combo. At zero, the bass is insane. It makes sense why it would vibrate.

I thought 0 (zero) on the volume knob was reference. After listening, it seems to be above reference from my understanding of "reference".

Given that information, is it reasonable my projector and/or screen vibrations are typical for most theaters? I'm trying to consider whether or not I should change out the mount with the accessory I linked above or the rubber and wood sandwich idea...OR just leave it alone. Given the small space on the soffit, the new mount may not fit. We will also have to retrofit a plumbers pipe, paint it black, then sand and paint the soffit to make it all work. Basically, it will require a good deal of effort to make the change. If we use David's idea of the rubber and wood sandwich, then I have to figure out how to finish the sides to get it to match the aesthetics in the room.

Thoughts?

Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #1392 of 1442 Old 06-30-2017, 01:25 PM
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The rubber sandwhich might be the best way to go. I would PM Mike or Craig at Avscience. They used to be in commercial construction. I am sure they have some good ideas.
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post #1393 of 1442 Old 06-30-2017, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Aareses View Post
I did a little (I stress little) experiment this morning to test how bad the projector was vibrating at different levels.

Source material was Game of Thrones, Season 2, Episode 9 (Blackwater), specifically the "Blackwater Bay" scene. It's the same scene used on the 2015 Dolby Atmos disc. I however, used the actual Blu-ray discs from the Steelbook Blu-rays, with Dolby Atmos. I played the scene from the single fire arrow shot, to the dropping of the mast off a ship into the water.

I used an iOS app "Decibel 10th" using my iPhone 7 Plus with a "Z" scale weighting. Here are the results with the volume knob setting listed first in bold:

0 (zero) dB
116.2 dB Max
108.9 dB Average

-10 dB
110.9 dB Max
104.0 dB Average

-15 dB
106.2 dB Max
99.1 dB Average

At -10 and -15, there were no noticeable vibrations on the projected image. I like it on the loud side and typically listen to movies with the family around -15 and by myself at -10.

At zero, I saw vibrations on the projected image. It wasn't huge, but was noticeable. I am guessing it's the projector mount. Possibly the screen or the combo. At zero, the bass is insane. It makes sense why it would vibrate.

I thought 0 (zero) on the volume knob was reference. After listening, it seems to be above reference from my understanding of "reference".

Given that information, is it reasonable my projector and/or screen vibrations are typical for most theaters? I'm trying to consider whether or not I should change out the mount with the accessory I linked above or the rubber and wood sandwich idea...OR just leave it alone. Given the small space on the soffit, the new mount may not fit. We will also have to retrofit a plumbers pipe, paint it black, then sand and paint the soffit to make it all work. Basically, it will require a good deal of effort to make the change. If we use David's idea of the rubber and wood sandwich, then I have to figure out how to finish the sides to get it to match the aesthetics in the room.

Thoughts?
What is reference level? http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/201...ference-level/. It's not all speakers on, its a single speaker measurement with a test tone at -20dBFS which creates a resulting pink noise of 85dBC at the listening position. We did level set off the Dolby Atmos test disc, but AFAIK I used A weighting which I always do, so will be slightly off (maybe 3-4dB) if you use C weighting. You could run the level set test tone at 0dB on the receiver with C weighting on a good SPL meter (not an iPhone), and then tweak the levels on the Xilica or Yamaha so 0dB = 85dBC.

From memory the bass in your room is at least 8dB hot If there's no vibrations at your usual listening level then no need to change it IMO, just creating work for yourself.
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post #1394 of 1442 Old 07-01-2017, 02:17 AM
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What is reference level? its a single speaker measurement with a test tone at -20dBFS which creates a resulting pink noise of 85dBC at the listening position. We did level set off the Dolby Atmos test disc, but AFAIK I used A weighting which I always do, so will be slightly off (maybe 3-4dB) if you use C weighting.
If the calibration is defined for C-wtg, why do you use A-wtg? I get doing that for checking speaker balance with wideband noise, since bass response variations can mess with the readings (which is why cal noise is bandlimited). But after that, all can be shifted to better cal the volume control. (I also get that this does not matter very much. But folks sometimes like to compare notes and make ref to listening levels.)

Just to see what happens, I dropped in the Atmos disc and A-wtg-wtg reads 2 dB higher than C on their wideband noise (on my speakers with a genuine Radio Shack meter. )

Deadwood II Theater (Previous Deadwood Theater HTOM)
Anthem AVM 60 7.4.4; Classé SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4; MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN
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Adam Audio S3V/S3H LCR, KEF Ci200QS 4 srrnd, Tannoy Di6 DC 4 hts, Hsu ULS-15 4 subs
JVC RS520; Stewart Cima Neve screen 125" diag 2.35:1, MLP at 115"

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post #1395 of 1442 Old 07-01-2017, 09:53 AM
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If the calibration is defined for C-wtg, why do you use A-wtg? I get doing that for checking speaker balance with wideband noise, since bass response variations can mess with the readings (which is why cal noise is bandlimited). But after that, all can be shifted to better cal the volume control. (I also get that this does not matter very much. But folks sometimes like to compare notes and make ref to listening levels.)

Just to see what happens, I dropped in the Atmos disc and A-wtg-wtg reads 2 dB higher than C on their wideband noise (on my speakers with a genuine Radio Shack meter. )
I always use A weighting for level balancing speakers because it gives a better result than C weighting, as you point out. However, it was an intense 2 days of calibration. I can't recall if I calibrated the 0dB on the receiver volume control so that it would be "THX Reference" (single speaker 85dB continuous dBC with a -20dBFS test tone). @Aareses , if you'd like to set that up I can tell you how to do it.
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post #1396 of 1442 Old 07-06-2017, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post
What is reference level? http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/201...ference-level/. It's not all speakers on, its a single speaker measurement with a test tone at -20dBFS which creates a resulting pink noise of 85dBC at the listening position. We did level set off the Dolby Atmos test disc, but AFAIK I used A weighting which I always do, so will be slightly off (maybe 3-4dB) if you use C weighting. You could run the level set test tone at 0dB on the receiver with C weighting on a good SPL meter (not an iPhone), and then tweak the levels on the Xilica or Yamaha so 0dB = 85dBC.

From memory the bass in your room is at least 8dB hot If there's no vibrations at your usual listening level then no need to change it IMO, just creating work for yourself.
Hey Nyal! Hope you're doing well.

It's funny, whenever I look for information on audio, your articles pop up. I'm like, hey I know that guy! I had actually read that article a couple times. You've written a lot of really good information for everyone's benefit. I really appreciate it and I'm sure others do as well!

Even though I love to run my theater far hotter than most, when I turn the volume knob on the Yamaha to 0dB, it's absolutely insane. Like crazy insane! When I hear people on AVS talking about "reference" listening, their descriptions don't seem to match anything close to what my theater is doing at 0db!

I read some other material as well, which may not be accurate. That information talked about "reference" volume typically having 105 dB peaks. Mine is FAR above that. Would there also be a "reference" guideline for peak values for what the entire theater is doing in dB?

On my projector, that's good advice as always. However, if "reference" which people here on AVS refer to is really at my 0dB on the volume knob, I may want to go through the effort. If it's not, I will leave it be.

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Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post
I always use A weighting for level balancing speakers because it gives a better result than C weighting, as you point out. However, it was an intense 2 days of calibration. I can't recall if I calibrated the 0dB on the receiver volume control so that it would be "THX Reference" (single speaker 85dB continuous dBC with a -20dBFS test tone). @Aareses , if you'd like to set that up I can tell you how to do it.
I appreciate that offer. Thank you. You did a great job calibrating my theater. Since you left, I can now clearly hear the rears and ceiling speakers. The bass was great before, but SO much better now. The range is much improved as well and way more balanced. I'm REALLY enjoying it...like big time. It is so clear and dynamic. Just incredible! Calibration was certainly worth doing.

It's lots of fun to demo. The most common comment I get from people is "OMG, I've never heard anything like that" or "I didn't know a theater could do that". It's even more fun to just sit and enjoy all the efforts which went into building it!

I never asked you to set "reference" to 0dB as part of the calibration when you were here. I had too many other more important requests, including multiple profiles. You spent all day here, both days. Still, it's nice for you to offer to help me set it after. I don't think I need that though. My only curiosity is to know at what volume level on the Yamaha gets me the "reference" level people here on AVS refer to when they listen to movies. Without doing anymore calibrating, what's the best way to determine the appropriate volume level for "reference"?

I agree about the iPhone, but it's the only tool I have. Is there a good dB meter I can get easily, say from Amazon, without breaking the bank?
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Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #1397 of 1442 Old 07-06-2017, 04:12 PM
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Not Nyal, but just wanted to chime in anyway.
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Originally Posted by Aareses View Post
I read some other material as well, which may not be accurate. That information talked about "reference" volume typically having 105 dB peaks. Mine is FAR above that. Would there also be a "reference" guideline for peak values for what the entire theater is doing in dB?
105 dB is the peak level of a sine wave in one channel. If the signal is not an unclipped sine wave, the SPL can be higher than that. If there are more channels running, the SPL can be higher than that.

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My only curiosity is to know at what volume level on the Yamaha gets me the "reference" level people here on AVS refer to when they listen to movies. Without doing anymore calibrating, what's the best way to determine the appropriate volume level for "reference"?
If you activate the AVR's internal test tones, see what it gives you for SPL. If it is other than 75 dB, the difference is the offset from reference (when you set the volume for 0). Example, if the SPL meter reads 72 dB SPL, then your AVR is 3 dB lower than ref level when it is set to 0 dB on the volume control.

And you're right, that is an insane level for a home theater. I like to stay at -10 to -15 range (depending on the title).
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post #1398 of 1442 Old 07-06-2017, 04:20 PM
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one thing I noticed reading the forums is that everyone pretty much listens in a different space which greatly can impact spl. from what I recall you have 4 awesome subs in a kinda small sealed space...You have to be hitting over 130 db's if you wanted to
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post #1399 of 1442 Old 07-06-2017, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
one thing I noticed reading the forums is that everyone pretty much listens in a different space which greatly can impact spl. from what I recall you have 4 awesome subs in a kinda small sealed space...You have to be hitting over 130 db's if you wanted to
The room linked in my signature was ~1500 cuft, with 4 of the Hsu ULS15s. I have since moved to a new house and am just completing the new theater. I brought all the kit with me, but the internal volume is more than doubled (3300 cuft). With both rooms having been calibrated to the same SPL, they seem equally loud to me, and I'm not driving the gear any harder than before as far as I can tell (cal trims are much as they were). Might have even picked up a few dB in bass efficiency as the front subs are tri-corner loaded this time.

All this just to say that calibration ought to remove the variable of room size/room gain from the perceived loudness equation -- but it may indeed have some impact on subwoofer efficiency.
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post #1400 of 1442 Old 09-16-2017, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post
I always use A weighting for level balancing speakers because it gives a better result than C weighting, as you point out. However, it was an intense 2 days of calibration. I can't recall if I calibrated the 0dB on the receiver volume control so that it would be "THX Reference" (single speaker 85dB continuous dBC with a -20dBFS test tone). @Aareses , if you'd like to set that up I can tell you how to do it.
I'm curious. What do you see the advantage of using limited noise for speaker balancing vs signal sweeps? I do understand that a calibrated noise source is necessary for setting "reference" level. But for speaker balancing, I use to use noise but several years ago quit doing so and started using single sweeps. The issue I ALWAYS had with noise was the variableness/small movement of the meter (whether digital or analog). With a signal sweep, I can do some smoothing and get each of the channels to "identically" match each other. Not only do I find it much easier to use, I also hear (I think) a very slight improvement in envelopment.
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post #1401 of 1442 Old 09-16-2017, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
I'm curious. What do you see the advantage of using limited noise for speaker balancing vs signal sweeps? I do understand that a calibrated noise source is necessary for setting "reference" level. But for speaker balancing, I use to use noise but several years ago quit doing so and started using single sweeps. The issue I ALWAYS had with noise was the variableness/small movement of the meter (whether digital or analog). With a signal sweep, I can do some smoothing and get each of the channels to "identically" match each other. Not only do I find it much easier to use, I also hear (I think) a very slight improvement in envelopment.
Not Nyal, but as I am somewhat responsible for bandlimited noise in AVRs, I will comment that there is no advantage relative to your method which stipulates "each of the channels to 'identically' match each other." In that case, the results for speaker balance would theoretically be the same for sweeps, or narrow band or wideband noise.

The #1 advantage for bandlimited noise is speed/convenience. Pull out a simple SPL meter, measure the noise, tweak to match, done. Measuring responses takes more kit. Wideband noise will be unreliable due to bass variations.

It is assumed that rooms/speakers do not exhibit identical frequency responses from all channels, even if all the speakers are identical. (This was in the day before REQ's were ubiquitous). Even with the speaker/room variables, with bandlimited noise it is even possible to match speaker levels by ear to a serviceable degree. Have a meter? All the better.
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post #1402 of 1442 Old 09-16-2017, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
The advantage for bandlimited noise is speed/convenience. Pull out a simple SPL meter, measure the noise, tweak to match, done. Measuring responses takes more kit. Wideband noise will be unreliable due to bass variations.
I would most certainly agree !!!
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post #1403 of 1442 Old 09-18-2017, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Not Nyal, but as I am somewhat responsible for bandlimited noise in AVRs, I will comment that there is no advantage relative to your method which stipulates "each of the channels to 'identically' match each other." In that case, the results for speaker balance would theoretically be the same for sweeps, or narrow band or wideband noise.

The #1 advantage for bandlimited noise is speed/convenience. Pull out a simple SPL meter, measure the noise, tweak to match, done. Measuring responses takes more kit. Wideband noise will be unreliable due to bass variations.

It is assumed that rooms/speakers do not exhibit identical frequency responses from all channels, even if all the speakers are identical. (This was in the day before REQ's were ubiquitous). Even with the speaker/room variables, with bandlimited noise it is even possible to match speaker levels by ear to a serviceable degree. Have a meter? All the better.
It's also important for users to remember that closely matching levels is done with the intent of improving imaging and placement of sound effects between the various main speaker channels. As such, the spectrum most important to subjective sound location are what should be matched. Elevated bass response or peaks in the bass response can make one channel sound subjectively louder, but imaging is dominated by the upper frequencies. By eliminating energy below 500-1000Hz you get a better subjective match in level with respect to the imaging of the system.

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post #1404 of 1442 Old 09-18-2017, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Great conversation. Any good SPL meters on Amazon, which would do an effective job? Any other inexpensive equipment which would help?

Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #1405 of 1442 Old 09-26-2017, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aareses View Post
Great conversation. Any good SPL meters on Amazon, which would do an effective job? Any other inexpensive equipment which would help?
If I needed another one, I'd buy this one above any other option out there for the price and the calibration of the unit. http://www.cross-spectrum.com/measur...ted_cm140.html
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post #1406 of 1442 Old 01-18-2018, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Nyal will be doing a write-up of our theater soon. I had a photographer take pictures, but the RAW files were not very good. A little Photoshop cleaned it up. Attached is an identical picture, with two different filters. Which filter looks best?

1) Theater 1

or

2) Theater 2

Do you think these photos look "professional" enough or should I hire a different photographer?
Attached Thumbnails
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Name:	Theater 1.jpg
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ID:	2347704   Click image for larger version

Name:	Theater 2.jpg
Views:	267
Size:	1.05 MB
ID:	2347706  
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Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.

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post #1407 of 1442 Old 01-18-2018, 12:53 PM
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Which one looks more true to life with the color of your lighting. I personally like 1 better. Also, superimposed PJ picture for the loss. That doesn't tell anyone anything about the HT and cheapens up the shot IMO. Just go with a blank screen for a more professional touch.
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post #1408 of 1442 Old 01-18-2018, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Which one looks more true to life with the color of your lighting. I personally like 1 better. Also, superimposed PJ picture for the loss. That doesn't tell anyone anything about the HT and cheapens up the shot IMO. Just go with a blank screen for a more professional touch.
#2 is definitely closer to what it looks like in person. The columns have red fabric on them. #1 leans a little to the orange side.

It was requested I put the superimposed PJ picture on the final images.

Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #1409 of 1442 Old 01-18-2018, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aareses View Post
Nyal will be doing a write-up of our theater soon. I had a photographer take pictures, but the RAW files were not very good. A little Photoshop cleaned it up. Attached is an identical picture, with two different filters. Which filter looks best?

1) Theater 1

or

2) Theater 2

Do you think these photos look "professional" enough or should I hire a different photographer?
I like #1 .

BTW, what are you using to cover the chair backs? I'm assuming it's for absorption.
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post #1410 of 1442 Old 01-18-2018, 01:09 PM
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