A short Day at Barco with the 6P 4K Laser DLP - Page 12 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #331 of 389 Old 12-24-2016, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Great feedback Uwe. Nice one! Couple of quick questions if you don't mind?

This was/is that latest circumstance with respect to Wolfgang's HT:

So, when you say: "the night before i came, he worked til 4 am to adjust a replacement lens" What was this new lens and how did/has this positively altered the video performance as compared with this latest report by Wolfgang? For example, is the ON/OFF CR any further enhanced beyond 4710:1 yet? The reason I ask is that I consider the Barco 6P Laser to be capable of delivering nothing but excellence regarding most aspects of video performance except for ON/OFF CR and black floor performance... Where it's been very encouraging seeing Barco's continued success regards improving these but they are still not yet where I personally need them to be for me to consider spending that price tag... And so for me this is the missing jigsaw piece and hence why I am very closely following the progression with respect to any improvement made by Barco in this regard... My hope is that further improvements will tip the balance, especially when all the other excellent performance aspects are taken into consideration... In other words, one can live will a suboptimal black floor if everything else is so absolutely amazing, in the absense of a better alternative option, but there is a threshold, and for me the Barco projectors just have not yet passed that... So do you happen to know what was/is the lastest CR figures? And what was your opinion regarding the black floor with respect to 2D (not 3D) video content?

the cr did not change, the other lens had mechanical problems...

You have mentioned the SONY VPL-VW5000ES, but ironically the CR of the SONY 5000 as of right now beats the Barco by multiple times, but is a mere fraction of the price, even if the Barco beats the SONY 5000 in most other aspects... Where my problem is that this cannot simply be waved away using the 'high-brightness-equals-low-contrast' argument, because this is negated by the very existence of the Christie Dolby Cinema projector with its concomitant CR of 1,000,000:1 and 100nits/30fl luminosity... And so I am not sure I can agree with describing the current iteration of Barco Thor as being: "the best projector money could buy at that time" because all things considered that is not entirely factually accurate... sorry! IF or WHEN Barco succeeds in significantly improving the ON/OFF CR and black floor (which are independent of each other) perhaps, but not until then! But that just my own personal opinion... That said, IF or WHEN Barco do indeed succeed in this regard, they would most certainly be finding themselves having a new repeat customer right here

he told me that there will be another change to increase the cr soon.

However, until then when the considerably superior video performance with respect to CR and black levels of the likes of the SONY 5000ES and the new JVC DLA-RS4500/Z1 are taken into consideration, along with the comparative price tags, I would say that for many people these would offer the best in overall video performance right now, depending upon how much importance one places regarding CR and black floor... Where I personally consider the Christie Dolby Cinema projector to be the current reference standard and everything else below this entails some sort of compromise with respect to video performance, so it's a bit difficult to state this or that projector is "the best projector" at the present time, because in the absence of a projector that delivers equal or better video performance with respect to the reference standard, namely the Christie Dolby Cinema projector, the labelling of what is or is not "the best projector" at the present time will be heavily influenced and thereby governed by personal preference

as alan stated: you cannot buy the christie....

A sad loss indeed... I am comparatively new to these forums, having joined only about 5 months ago, but even in those few months I have found the wealth of information supplied by his various posts to be both extremely useful and interesting indeed to say the least and I am sure I am by no means the only person to be thinking this... I very much hope that in time Wolfgang might eventually reconsider and resume posting on here... His contributions have been consistently nothing short of invaluable, especially as far as I am concerned, given we share a common goal...
.
that´s right, it´s a big loss...

uwe
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post #332 of 389 Old 12-24-2016, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post
The Christie you speak of is not a product you can purchase today. If it ever becomes available then your comment can be considered valid. By time that happens it may have competition. As of "Today" Barco has the only high contrast offering from the three cinema manufactures. The Thor's ANSI exceeds what human vision can detect, Lcos at 10 times the on/off will always look flat in comparison.
Fair enough

But said Christie projector is most certainly valid with respect to the whole argument... firstly, its very existence is the answer to the pertinent question: "With video projection is concomitant high brightness and high contrast with deep black floor possible?" Furthermore, it is most certainly relevant given that it is the reference standard, even if as you say it "is not a product you can purchase today" and because it is the reference standard everything else that IS available for purchase today comparatively involves compromise in at least one respect regarding video performance... Consequently, you can't really refer to the Barco Thor as being "the best projector money could buy at that time." because as of right now that is subjective and down to personal preference... Where I am sure that some people will prefer the deeper blacks offered by other projectors and consider those to be "the best projector money could buy at that time." Like I said, until we have projectors that do not have these compromises what is or is not "the best projector money could buy at that time." is and will continue to be subjective and hence a matter of opinion and down to personal preference

Where specifically with respect to the Barco 6P said compromise (which is its ONLY compromise as it's astonishing in every other respect ) is clearly with respect to its comparatively low ON/OFF CR and black floor, where I know I am by no means the only person to have this opinion... Take this fine gentleman for example, whose opinion I happen to share (even though matters have now somewhat improved):
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If they can't significantly increase the pathetic on/off cr that they demoed at Cedia, then I can't imagine any serious videophile purchasing one.
Which is in fact already somewhat already proven by the low sales statistics with respect to the Barco Thor into the HT marketplace... Ask Peter (Cineramax) how many Barco Thors he's been able to successfully sell... Last time I checked it's a round number and not in a good way

But as it happens I absolutely agree with all of your other four out of five statements you have made here, but I must disagree that the Christie projector is not valid to the argument
That said, please note that I am NOT saying that the Barco Thor is not an amazing projector. It really is A-M-A-Z-I-N-G !

But me personally, being the world's most fussy person when it comes to both contrast and black floor, the Barco Thor's comparatively low CR and black floor, and in fact in its own right, quite simply has not yet improved to the extent that I am willing to pay its high price tag... And I don't think I am the only person with this opinion, given the sales figures That said, every single other aspect is nothing short of excellent and Barco do not have much further to improve its contrast and black floor before even the world's most fussy person with respect to CR and black floor (me) will be purchasing one IF or WHEN Barco succeeds in doing so!

Specifically with respect to: "By time that happens it may have competition." I could not agree more and I certainly hope so! IMO more competition is precisely what is much needed here and like you say the only product that ticks all the boxes as of right now is not actually available for purchase for consumer/domestic HT!
.

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post #333 of 389 Old 12-24-2016, 10:42 AM
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He told me that there will be another change to increase the cr soon.
Very good news. I am assuming that this is what Wolfang alluded to with respect to his recent post. If Barco can succeed in achieving upwards of 10,000:1 that would in my opinion most certainly win it the title of 'The best HT projector money can buy'. I realize this may take more than one instance of improvement and tweaking, but I don't consider this to be an insurmountable challenge, so finger's crossed! If Barco succeeds in doing this I can certainly envisage myself buying (and selling) it
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post #334 of 389 Old 12-24-2016, 11:13 AM
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Fair enough

But said Christie projector is most certainly valid with respect to the whole argument... firstly, its very existence is the answer to the pertinent question: "With video projection is concomitant high brightness and high contrast with deep black floor possible?" Furthermore, it is most certainly relevant given that it is the reference standard, even if as you say it "is not a product you can purchase today" and because it is the reference standard everything else that IS available for purchase today comparatively involves compromise in at least one respect regarding video performance... Consequently, you can't really refer to the Barco Thor as being "the best projector money could buy at that time." because as of right now that is subjective and down to personal preference... Where I am sure that some people will prefer the deeper blacks offered by other projectors and consider those to be "the best projector money could buy at that time." Like I said, until we have projectors that do not have these compromises what is or is not "the best projector money could buy at that time." is and will continue to be subjective and hence a matter of opinion and down to personal preference

Where specifically with respect to the Barco 6P said compromise (which is its ONLY compromise as it's astonishing in every other respect ) is clearly with respect to its comparatively low ON/OFF CR and black floor, where I know I am by no means the only person to have this opinion... Take this fine gentleman for example, whose opinion I happen to share (even though matters have now somewhat improved): Which is in fact already somewhat already proven by the low sales statistics with respect to the Barco Thor into the HT marketplace... Ask Peter (Cineramax) how many Barco Thors he's been able to successfully sell... Last time I checked it's a round number and not in a good way

But as it happens I absolutely agree with all of your other four out of five statements you have made here, but I must disagree that the Christie projector is not valid to the argument
That said, please note that I am NOT saying that the Barco Thor is not an amazing projector. It really is A-M-A-Z-I-N-G !

But me personally, being the world's most fussy person when it comes to both contrast and black floor, the Barco Thor's comparatively low CR and black floor, and in fact in its own right, quite simply has not yet improved to the extent that I am willing to pay its high price tag... And I don't think I am the only person with this opinion, given the sales figures That said, every single other aspect is nothing short of excellent and Barco do not have much further to improve its contrast and black floor before even the world's most fussy person with respect to CR and black floor (me) will be purchasing one IF or WHEN Barco succeeds in doing so!

Specifically with respect to: "By time that happens it may have competition." I could not agree more and I certainly hope so! IMO more competition is precisely what is much needed here and like you say the only product that ticks all the boxes as of right now is not actually available for purchase for consumer/domestic HT!
.
There is one solution ( SIM2 HDR Duo, more detail to come in the near future ) that is the very best that delivers the same black level ( if not better ) as the Sony but combined with very high ANSI and killer color. Sadly not a consideration for you due to your screen size, it does not offer the limitless and scalable light output of D cinema. It is hands down the very best I have ever experienced, D cinema has a long way to go in comparison but I do not want to get into that argument in this thread but I will say the SIM2 HDR crushes the Sony in all aspects despite its 2k resolution.

I myself am exploring different and all cinema options for my clients that prefer D Cinema and for those who receive content. There are other solutions that I am reluctant to discuss that exceed contrast in this discussion. That brings us back to the point, Barco Thor is "currently" the only high contrast D cinema "factory" offering.
Mayer has something very special and unique.
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post #335 of 389 Old 12-24-2016, 12:04 PM
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There is one solution ( SIM2 HDR Duo, more detail to come in the near future ) that is the very best that delivers the same black level ( if not better ) as the Sony but combined with very high ANSI and killer color. Sadly not a consideration for you due to your screen size, it does not offer the limitless and scalable light output of D cinema. It is hands down the very best I have ever experienced, D cinema has a long way to go in comparison but I do not want to get into that argument in this thread but I will say the SIM2 HDR crushes the Sony in all aspects despite its 2k resolution.

I myself am exploring different and all cinema options for my clients that prefer D Cinema and for those who receive content. There are other solutions that I am reluctant to discuss that exceed contrast in this discussion. That brings us back to the point, Barco Thor is "currently" the only high contrast D cinema "factory" offering.
I actually agree with absolutely everything you say here, but the fact that the "Barco Thor is "currently" the only high contrast D cinema "factory" offering" does not mean it is 'The best HT projector money can buy' because it does not excel in every regard and other projectors beat it in more ways than one, so 'The best HT projector money can buy' as of right now is subjective and hence a matter of opinion and down to personal preference... That's my particular point here
I am pleased to report that you are preaching to the choir with respect to the SIM2 HDR Duo... I have myself been utterly blown away by the video performance of this and as it happens I absolutely agree with you that it "crushes the Sony in all aspects despite its 2k resolution"

It seems to me that there quite simply is no perfect HT projector as of right now, in that they all have compromises in at least one respect... With the Barco Thor it's with respect to its contrast and black floor, with the Sony 5000ES it's also with respect to its contrast and black floor (see I wasn't kidding when I said I'm the fussiest person regarding black levels! ), with respect to the JVC DLA-RS4500/Z1 it's with the 2,600 Lumens per unit brightness (although its comparatively high CR should mean it will make for excellent stacking), and with respect to the SIM2 HDR Duo it's the 2K resolution... But with respect to most of these it's only one aspect that's the compromise and this is something where it should be possible to improve/eliminate whatever issue... so hopefully it won't be long before matters evolve from the current slim pickings to being spoilt for choice! But with respect to the SIM2 HDR DUO specifically, do you happen to know whether SIM2 have plans to release a native 4K version of this? Because IMO that would be the absolute nuts!

I am personally of the view that multiple stacked light sources and/or projectors is absolutely the way forward regarding achieving the best video performance in HT, especially with respect to HDR... Wherein, I am exploring all possibilities in this regard, including 3P/6P RGB laser and Dual/Triple stacked JVC DLA-RS4500/Z1s... But a 4K version of the SIM2 HDR DUO would most certainly be added to that very short short-list if the intention was/is for that to exist anytime soon... So are you able to spill the beans with respect to what's what regarding this?

Also, what is the reason behind you saying: "Sadly not a consideration for you due to your screen size"?

You say "it does not offer the limitless and scalable light output of D cinema" but is that the only reason? The reason I ask is because that is not necessarily an issue, in that there's a solution to that

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Mayer has something very special and unique.
No arguments there!
.

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post #336 of 389 Old 12-24-2016, 01:52 PM
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I saw this thread in my post quotes.

It should be mentioned that I wasn't the only one who saw the Barco last year who thought that the on/off cr was horrible. Actually, I think that was the consensus amongst anyone who saw it. I think it was better this year, but it still isn't great. I will defer to others who saw it this year, as I didn't look at it that critically. Usually in these situations I defer to Darin.

Is the Sim2 the one they were showing last year? It did look nice, but I forget what they were doing. IIRC Darin and Kris had some ideas on what they were doing. Maybe they will pop in and give their thoughts.

I quickly glanced over the last page or two. Did Mayer quit because of something Peter said?

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post #337 of 389 Old 12-24-2016, 02:52 PM
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I saw this thread in my post quotes.

It should be mentioned that I wasn't the only one who saw the Barco last year who thought that the on/off cr was horrible. Actually, I think that was the consensus amongst anyone who saw it. I think it was better this year, but it still isn't great. I will defer to others who saw it this year, as I didn't look at it that critically. Usually in these situations I defer to Darin.
I have seen this year's version and I can confirm that with respect to 2D video the CR and black floor still was/is not great... That said, I have not seen it with Wolfgang's latest upgrades/tweaks

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Is the Sim2 the one they were showing last year? It did look nice, but I forget what they were doing. IIRC Darin and Kris had some ideas on what they were doing. Maybe they will pop in and give their thoughts.
If by 'what they were doing' you mean how it operates, then it's essentially a dual projector array where one projector is tasked with and optimised for displaying the lower end of the luminosity spectrum as in the low-brightness parts, including with respect to shadow detail; and the other is tasked with and optimised for displaying the higher end of the luminosity spectrum, including with respect to bright highlights... And this combination yields the best of both, with fabulous brightness dynamics and deep black floor, and amazing detail at both ends of the lumosity spectrum, along with badass colors

But unfortunately it is only HD and not 4K

That said, it is an 'only HD' projector that outperforms a number of home theater/cienma 4K projectors... which aside from that it produces what is arguably the best overall video performance of any HT projector as of right now... Where, like Alan has said, it destroys the SONY 5000 in more ways than one, despite being 'only HD'
.

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post #338 of 389 Old 12-24-2016, 02:58 PM
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If by 'what they were doing' you mean how it operates, then it's essentially a dual projector array where one projector is tasked with and optimised for displaying the lower end of the luminosity spectrum as in the low-brightness parts, including with respect to shadow detail; and the other is tasked with and optimised for displaying the higher end of the luminosity spectrum, including with respect to bright highlights... And this combination yields the best of both, with fabulous brightness dynamics and deep black floor, and amazing detail at both ends of the lumosity spectrum, along with badass colors
.
Ok. IIRC Darin or Kris said that black floor would still be limited by the pj doing the higher end.

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post #339 of 389 Old 12-24-2016, 03:14 PM
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Ok. IIRC Darin or Kris said that black floor would still be limited by the pj doing the higher end.
That would depend on how you define 'limited'

IMO the black floor is pretty good and suffice to say it's better than the SONY VPL-VW5000ES... and the HDR performance in particular is astonishing... the image really pops... Now if they could only launch a 4K version
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Stop piling onm me for xmas, you are going to get uwe and mueat mad at me, I was telling w, that he shoulsd do a spatial color calibration... He said maybe me 35% and personal privacy requirements in a continent not free from some turmoil, not a good idea to show off. Remeber my client Otto beishein told me the yugo mafia wanted to kidnap him, so better safe than sorry. we will get info from wolfgang through some around here, I don't think he is mad at me still.

I was simply trying to show him better mods for the projctor. Which in between alan and I we are Da'Pimps of Barco Laser, sorry!!!

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post #341 of 389 Old 12-24-2016, 07:33 PM
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IMO the black floor is pretty good and suffice to say it's better than the SONY VPL-VW5000ES.

Really !


And if so how ?


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post #342 of 389 Old 12-25-2016, 04:58 AM
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Alan,

Quote:
Let's re-invent the old trick of yesteryear when monochrome projectors were the norm, three with a color filter each. That way we can use monochrome high contrast projectors. Or use RGB SSL sources with a single projector like the Carl Zeiss Velvet, or the SEOS Zorro follow on from Rockwell Collins.
See after two minutes:


And the single CRT version of this, some-one told me once how in the early seventies, he build a color decoder used three surplus units put RGB sheets in front of them and did a boxing match event with it sold to a promotor, though continued business would have made more recurring revenue.


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post #343 of 389 Old 12-25-2016, 06:11 AM
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There is one solution ( SIM2 HDR Duo, more detail to come in the near future ) that is the very best that delivers the same black level ( if not better ) as the Sony but combined with very high ANSI and killer color. Sadly not a consideration for you due to your screen size, it does not offer the limitless and scalable light output of D cinema. It is hands down the very best I have ever experienced, D cinema has a long way to go in comparison but I do not want to get into that argument in this thread but I will say the SIM2 HDR crushes the Sony in all aspects despite its 2k resolution.

I myself am exploring different and all cinema options for my clients that prefer D Cinema and for those who receive content. There are other solutions that I am reluctant to discuss that exceed contrast in this discussion. That brings us back to the point, Barco Thor is "currently" the only high contrast D cinema "factory" offering.
Mayer has something very special and unique.
I was fortunate enough to see Alan's Sim2 setup with his custom gama curve applied. Its was the best HDR projection I've seen, in some respects even surpassing OLED. Good HDR gives the picture a 3D effect from the screen back. Alan's Sim2 setup was the deepest 3D image I've seen. The contrast pop on high lumenation area's on the screen was also surreal. We compared it to a high contrast modified Barco. The Barco colors were amazing, rich almost liqued and very film like. It surpassed the very good colors of the Sim2 but lacked the HDR pop. The 3D depth on HDR was also good but could not match the Sim2.
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http://www.sim2usa.com/home/us/node/22823

Ok Brad I will take another look at this rig due to the fact that it is not a bad chip.95 as compared to the .96 at Prometheus which is good. Maybe with a good lense and dual active light doubling polarizers and the real d screen maybe then this thing can be CINERAMAX APPROVED. Of Course when I saw this in action at CES I got on the horn and told Alan that that it packed a nice picture, he had heard good things before but I told him it was the real thing, just did not look so hot against the wall last time I was there, but will return in January. It is still a bit of 16mm as opposed to the 70mm effect you get with the THOR.

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post #345 of 389 Old 12-25-2016, 08:48 AM
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http://www.sim2usa.com/home/us/node/22823

Ok Brad I will take another look at this rig due to the fact that it is not a bad chip.95 as compared to the .96 at Prometheus which is good. Maybe with a good lense and dual active light doubling polarizers and the real d screen maybe then this thing can be CINERAMAX APPROVED. Of Course when I saw this in action at CES I got on the horn and told Alan that that it packed a nice picture, he had heard good things before but I told him it was the real thing, just did not look so hot against the wall last time I was there, but will return in January. It is still a bit of 16mm as opposed to the 70mm effect you get with the THOR.
I'm not going to invest in a 2K solution, but it really showed the potential of a 2 projector system.
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post #346 of 389 Old 12-26-2016, 04:56 AM
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I'm not going to invest in a 2K solution, but it really showed the potential of a 2 projector system.
^^^ +1 what he said

Like Lasalle, 2K is simply not for me, or my clients/customers as it happens either... in the same way as comparatively low CR and black floor, such as with respect to Barco's latest offerings, isn't either, even though these offer mind-blowing video performance in other respects; especially at the respective price tags... But the SIM2 HDR DUO indeed demonstrates the potential of multiple projector arrays, which IMO is going to imminently become the industry standard with respect to high-end HT

But these all seemingly have only one remaining aspect/flaw that needs improving before they will tick all of the right boxes and hence the missing jigsaw piece so to speak... So as far as I am concerned a home theater/cinema RGB laser projector that delivers equal performance to the Barco Thor but with significantly improved CR and black floor; and/or a native 4K version of the SIM2 HDR DUO would both be of VERY, VERY considerable interest indeed... Where things are seemingly so close to achieving this that clearly 2017 is going to be a very exciting time regarding HT projection.

So here's a toast to the New Year and the hope that we will soon be seeing an evolution from slim pickings with respect to flawless HT video projection, including particularly with respect to HDR, to being spoilt for choice in this regard!
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Cool

WISHFUL THINKING I AM HOPING IS NOT.

BUT Robin I am tolerating your negative comments about the Thor without deploying my armada over there because you seem keenly iCOMFORATABLE WITH THE under informed camp (that does not prefer 3D simply because of not having seen it in it's best light).

Uwe useD to hate 3D and after seeing the High Contrast with me and Brian at CEDIA, and reinfoRcing that viewing with the Visit to Wolfgang'S, then now he realizes that no amount of hdr is going to even elicit the same level of emotions to what essentially is the closest thing to reality recreation, your brain is infinitely more active in 3D over 2D and when it is the best it just feels freaking real.

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post #348 of 389 Old 12-26-2016, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
WISHFUL THINKING I AM HOPING IS NOT. BUT Robin... I am tolerating your negative comments about the Thor without deploying my armada over there because...
A very merry Christmas and a happy New Year to you Peter!

Please take my comments about the Barco Thor as clearly intended, and so not as "negative comments" but in fact: 'CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM' with an overall POSITIVE perspective... Where you will note from my posts that my opinion is in fact that the Barco Thor is a practically perfect and epically awesome HT projector in every single respect, bar just one aspect, namely the CR and black floor with respect to 2D video content, which IMO is just not quite good enough yet, especially considering the purchase price... But where with respect to absolutely everything else it is nothing short of absolutely A-M-A-Z-I-N-G !

So, this is NOT in fact NEGATIVE Peter, but POSITIVE, in that everything about the Barco Thor is absolutely incredible, except for just this one aspect; which is THE ONLY issue that Barco needs to remedy for it to become the only flawless HT projector as of right now and indisputable king of all HT video projection!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
you seem keenly iCOMFORATABLE WITH THE under informed camp (that does not prefer 3D simply because of not having seen it in it's best light).
IMO despite the pre-existing issues with respect to the 3D technology and particularly the 3D video source content the Barco Thor delivers nothing short of probably the best 3D video performance of any HT projector as of right now.

Personally, the reason why I am currently not really into 3D in general as of right now is due to the fact that IMO HFR is absolutely essential and so I am simply waiting for such video content to become available

Last edited by ARROW-AV; 12-27-2016 at 03:55 PM.
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post #349 of 389 Old 01-22-2017, 06:56 AM
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Wolfgang sent this to me of his new reference display that he got for comparisons and he said I could share it - he got a new 4k 3D 65" OLED.

Due to the way this was photographed (OLED much closer to the camera) the OLED looks very big in relation to the 7.2 meter (almost 24 ft) screen.
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post #350 of 389 Old 01-22-2017, 07:41 AM
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Oled is the reference projectors can only dream of...
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post #351 of 389 Old 01-22-2017, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Klohs View Post
Wolfgang sent this to me of his new reference display that he got for comparisons and he said I could share it - he got a new 4k 3D 65" OLED.

Due to the way this was photographed (OLED much closer to the camera) the OLED looks very big in relation to the 7.2 meter (almost 24 ft) screen.

But very similar looking !


Art
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post #352 of 389 Old 01-22-2017, 10:06 AM
 
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Uncannily so, and in 3d scarily so.

Oliver is that the dreamscreen? Blacks look great!
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post #353 of 389 Old 01-22-2017, 10:11 AM
 
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Wolfgang come to las Vegas for a VIP tour of , thor hc with alchemy on uhd and 3d i get projector at cinemacon for 1.25 hours.

Then new Christie hc, new Nec, different 2 piece model, and special clips demo of latest Dolby Cinema moviees on best DC outside LA. Uwe is coming maybe Art, and a few more it will be fun, this is the least expensive Vegas Show at Ceasars, 75% of time I pay 275, and they upgrade me to huge suite with sauna, steam room, Jacuzzi overlooking the strip. It's at Ceasars Palace Im organizing curated tour for the Expert Viewers Club. Will be fun.
The Laser Guy all the technical heads from factory plus all the technical heads from sacramentnto, we are building the AMG versionafter all.
March 28-30, las vegas streets are empty nothing like the CES lunacy.

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post #354 of 389 Old 01-23-2017, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post
I really hope in future we can a keep this thread up to its original proposal:

TO TALK ABOUT THE BARCO LASER THOR PROJECTOR AND ALL ARROUND IT.

I am tiered to read all this that have nothing to do with this tread or see pictures that may someone else found funny but not me and not a lot of people that I know.
I share this things all here in an official Forum.

No one push me to do it no one pay for me and I am not sale home cinema eq. and to be honest I found it a bit strange that only one person complaining about all this since today!
So possible that all the other like it?


So then go and open a new thread and fill it up with all what you like to post……but not here!

Are we a children club at low level or are we in the 20.000+ forum?
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post
I decide to not post anymore at AVS.

So please feel free to post anything you like to post.
I wish you the best and good luck.


Thank you for all the positive Feedback I have got over the years from many AVS members!

Also thanks to this Forum as it brings me in contact with some People and Companys and we becomes good friends over the years.



Have fun with Home Cinema it can be a nice Hobby.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
Wolfgang come to las Vegas for a VIP tour of , thor hc with alchemy on uhd and 3d i get projector at cinemacon for 1.25 hours.

Then new Christie hc, new Nec, different 2 piece model, and special clips demo of latest Dolby Cinema moviees on best DC outside LA. Uwe is coming maybe Art, and a few more it will be fun, this is the least expensive Vegas Show at Ceasars, 75% of time I pay 275, and they upgrade me to huge suite with sauna, steam room, Jacuzzi overlooking the strip. It's at Ceasars Palace Im organizing curated tour for the Expert Viewers Club. Will be fun.
The Laser Guy all the technical heads from factory plus all the technical heads from sacramentnto, we are building the AMG versionafter all.
March 28-30, las vegas streets are empty nothing like the CES lunacy.
I guess after he leaves the forum you couldn't resist a promotional post in his thread.

Having fun playing the new mobile game Volley Village
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post #355 of 389 Old 01-23-2017, 08:58 AM
 
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IT IS AN invitation to see several new laser hdr projectors which i dont sell but which I know the corporate heads to get a square scoop, the barco he already owns but there is the new alchemy and we get a try to. Its a get together for the Expert Viewers club. Im just the curator .Some of the people I am planning to invite I have not intention of selling anything to, I dont encroach on other peoples dealers. Like Henley for example. He is just in a situation that there is something new helps his form factor limiations. If anything the sale can be Alans. Do u have a problem with Alan?


Re Wolfgang I can call him too if i please...But you sound bitter again...are you well?
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post #356 of 389 Old 01-23-2017, 01:46 PM
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He says he left the forum, so your post would not be seen by him. If you wanted to invite him to Vegas, then why not call him? It is a rhetorical question.

I don't have anything against Alan. I have never met him, so I whether he gets a sale or not is none of my concern.

Not bitter at all. My team won yesterday, so I am looking forward to the SB.
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post #357 of 389 Old 01-25-2017, 10:56 AM
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I had a long phone call with Wolfgang Mayer and he shared with me the outcome
of the last phase of his contrast improvement Barco did this week for his
Laser pr. Because he does not post here anymore I ask him if I can post the results and
he said yes.

Barco installed a strange looking aperture inside the light integrator and
this increased the cr. a bit more than expected.
When the unit was new he measured 26500 lumens in the center of the screen with 2900:1 on off cr.
Some weeks ago Barco install a new HC Lens. This dropped the lumens to 19000 but
increase the cr. to 4700:1.
Yesterday Barco installed the last and final contrast enhancement. Contrast with this new aperture dropped Lumens to 15000 but increased the on off contrast to 6300:1 a bit more then he was expecting. The original target was in the 5500-5700:1 range. The projector is now a fully certified Thor cr. wise.

Mayer expressed the most surprising thing was to see how amazing black and near black sequences look after the last enhancements.
He believes this is due to the combination of the 6300:1 on off contrast combined with the insane high ANSI contrast which is in the 900:1 range!
This attributes to the appearance of very deep black levels.
He points out that blacks looks as least as good as projectors with much higher on/off contrast in the above 10K:1 range but with lower ANSI contrast numbers in the 300:1 range.
Most people do not understand that ANSI contrast will have visually a positive impact on
on/off contrast especially in his dark design cinema.This projector likely delivers the
worlds highest ANSI contrast attainable today and possibly the best "projector" money can
buy.

The high contrast Lens with its aggressive aperture decreased the projectors color uniformity compared
to when the unit was new without any contrast enhancements.
Barco is the only company that offers a 27
point uniformity tool that can perfectly
correct uniformity across the screen without losing lumens or contrast.
Any negative uniformity issues caused by the contrast enhancements are now perfect again after running this program.

After receiving all the contrast enhancements the projector is now certified a "Thor" cr. wise. The last step will be to add the new Alchemy when it becomes available.

Mayer likes the picture so much he says it is the best picture he has ever seen. Coming from someone who has always had the very best, that is saying a lot.

Attached is a picture showing the Barco technician with the 27 point test pattern.

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post #358 of 389 Old 01-25-2017, 04:44 PM
 
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So he did do the spatial color calibration, awesome!
I now can sleep at night peacefully.

Since the spatial color calibration is a setting can he compare between the non SCC and the corrected one? Should be possible. I will try show that at Cinemacon EVC event.

I wonder if Barco took into consideration his much shorter image size when ray tracing/creating the aperture, Bill Beck took a note about this at Showeast so maybe Wolfgang did get the AMG version then, steps 1SCC,2 Customized Plate,3 pr-670, maybe all covered. PRIMO.

The HC at CINEMACON will be 40kw lumens. For Big Venues.
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post #359 of 389 Old 01-25-2017, 05:07 PM
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What they didn't say here and something that is very very important is that the screen is almost tree hundred feet away. In all seriousness I'm very pleased that he has the picture he wanted from the unit. His eye for quality is something we all can be happy is being shared with us. Thanks for this Alan !


Can you give us what the Alchemy is expected to do ?


Art

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post #360 of 389 Old 01-25-2017, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
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What they didn't say here and something that is very very important is that the screen is almost tree hundred feet away. In all seriousness I'm very pleased that he has the picture he wanted from the unit. His eye for quality is something we all can be happy is being shared with us. Thanks for this Alan !


Can you give us what the Alchemy is expected to do ?


Art
The new Alchemy add HDMI 2.0a so it can do 4K60 and HDR. The old Alchemy was limited to HDMI 1.4
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