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post #61 of 118 Old 08-07-2016, 09:32 PM
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CompuServe was a LOT of fun, I miss it at times. I still remember my CIS user number!

Hey, the next time I'm in your part of the world, I'd love to see your theater...

Take care!!
Omigod, it _was_ a lot of fun. I miss it too...

-Rob

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post #62 of 118 Old 08-11-2016, 12:27 AM
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Wow Rob! What an unbelievable theater, congratulations! And I thought I was compulsive building a major recording studio in my house You guys knocked this thing out of the park. Is that RPG Diffractal and Abfussors on the side walls and ceiling? Most of the treatment appears to be diffusive (which is great). You must be so proud...

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post #63 of 118 Old 08-11-2016, 09:34 PM
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Wow Rob! What an unbelievable theater, congratulations! And I thought I was compulsive building a major recording studio in my house You guys knocked this thing out of the park. Is that RPG Diffractal and Abfussors on the side walls and ceiling? Most of the treatment appears to be diffusive (which is great). You must be so proud...

Thanks,
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www.upstairsproductions.com
Thanks Ted! As far as the acoustic treatment, Keith is fairly proprietary about some of the elements used in my theater, as I'm sure you can understand. The acoustic treatment is very specific and complex, a combination of diffusion, absorption and reflection.

Nice studio, btw!

Thanks for the very kind words!

-Rob

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ter-build.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/92-com...n-theater.html

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post #64 of 118 Old 08-15-2016, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Rob Hahn View Post
Thanks Ted! As far as the acoustic treatment, Keith is fairly proprietary about some of the elements used in my theater, as I'm sure you can understand. The acoustic treatment is very specific and complex, a combination of diffusion, absorption and reflection.

Nice studio, btw!

Thanks for the very kind words!

-Rob

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ter-build.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/92-com...n-theater.html
Without a doubt, best home theater I have ever seen... Art was most fortunate to visit your home, have dinner, tour your home theater, then to get an awesome demonstration... Did he also get 'validated parking'?
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post #65 of 118 Old 08-15-2016, 05:07 PM
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Without a doubt, best home theater I have ever seen... Art was most fortunate to visit your home, have dinner, tour your home theater, then to get an awesome demonstration... Did he also get 'validated parking'?
Thanks! I was fortunate to have him visit. I really wanted him to see how much he had helped me! (I do validate)

-Rob

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post #66 of 118 Old 08-15-2016, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! I was fortunate to have him visit. I really wanted him to see how much he had helped me! (I do validate)

-Rob

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ter-build.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/92-com...n-theater.html
Rob,
I'm not sure if it was this one or the build thread where you said something like you couldn't believe this room was in your house. I understand this so very well ; It's like a vacation just upstairs. I'm glad that I had some small part in your trek that resulted in that incredible theater. I had a great time ,you and Claudia were truly warm and what I call "good folk". Refreshing to see such an accomplished guy who made Angela and I feel like old friends . Thanks again !


Art
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post #67 of 118 Old 08-15-2016, 09:21 PM
 
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So. Close. To. Connecticut... Must. Resist. Asking. To. See. Theater...
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post #68 of 118 Old 08-15-2016, 10:16 PM
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Rob,
I'm not sure if it was this one or the build thread where you said something like you couldn't believe this room was in your house. I understand this so very well ; It's like a vacation just upstairs. I'm glad that I had some small part in your trek that resulted in that incredible theater. I had a great time ,you and Claudia were truly warm and what I call "good folk". Refreshing to see such an accomplished guy who made Angela and I feel like old friends . Thanks again !


Art
Thanks Art! (I love that - 'a vacation upstairs')!

-Rob

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ter-build.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/92-com...n-theater.html
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post #69 of 118 Old 08-15-2016, 10:19 PM
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So. Close. To. Connecticut... Must. Resist. Asking. To. See. Theater...
Upstate. NY. Not. Too. Far. From. CT. Couldn't. Hurt. To. Ask.
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post #70 of 118 Old 08-16-2016, 03:23 AM
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Mr Hahn, this has to be the most fantastic theater I've seen on these forums. There are a lot of great HTs, and this isn't a knock on any of them of course, but there isn't one thing I'd change about that setup of yours. The colors, layout, and man what a huge space! Congratulations on an awesome achievement! HT of the year for sure.
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post #71 of 118 Old 08-17-2016, 02:40 AM
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Mr Hahn, this has to be the most fantastic theater I've seen on these forums. There are a lot of great HTs, and this isn't a knock on any of them of course, but there isn't one thing I'd change about that setup of yours. The colors, layout, and man what a huge space! Congratulations on an awesome achievement! HT of the year for sure.
That's really nice to hear - thank you so much!!

-Rob

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ter-build.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/92-com...n-theater.html
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post #72 of 118 Old 08-17-2016, 02:53 AM
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Rob,

Have you thought about adding a couple of motel rooms for the 10,001 AVS members who want to come and visit ??!! Could be a nice little earner !

Cheers,
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post #73 of 118 Old 08-18-2016, 12:53 AM
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Rob,

Have you thought about adding a couple of motel rooms for the 10,001 AVS members who want to come and visit ??!! Could be a nice little earner !

Cheers,
Motel Hahn - I like it! (Very, very nice theater, btw)!

-Rob
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post #74 of 118 Old 08-18-2016, 04:15 AM
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Is that the music from Psycho I can hear !
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post #75 of 118 Old 08-18-2016, 07:46 AM
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I had the pleasure of spending last evening with Rob and demoing this space. First, a huge thank you to Rob for his hospitality and willingness to invite a total stranger to his home and share this with me. He's as much a gentleman as one could be and it was a total pleasure to hang out for a few hours sharing thoughts and watching clips. The amount of time and money it will save me to have had the opportunity is significant, as I'm entertaining very similar speaker choices....but to the fun part right:

The pictures and descriptions do not do this place justice! It has to be in the top few most incredible theater spaces out there, and certainly the number one I've ever experienced by a longshot. I'm often brought back to a philosophy that has stuck with me for years that the sum of all parts is greater than any one element. It could not be more true in this case. The details in the space from the molding size, to exact colors of fabric, to lighting, to acoustical treatment and even down to the hundreth of a foot lambert in light on the screen really make all the difference. Balance is a word I found myself using with Rob last night quite a few times. Everything is pleasing to the eye, ear and all other senses for that matter. The space "blacks out" perfectly when watching a film, yet is so comfortable and inviting with the lights on hanging out. It's both elegant and strong at the same time. I had the pleasure of speaking with Keith Yates a couple of years back and we chatted HVAC for half an hour. It Rob's theater, you get lost.....the noise floor is unheard of and not exagerating, you can't ever perceive any sound from the HVAC system when feeding or in return. Keith's ability to design a balanced air exchange system are world class.

The balance doesn't stop there of course. The sound in the theater is absolutely fantastic, not just because the emergence scene in WOTW shook my teath (literally), but because it remained balanced through the scene, throughout the sound spectrum. One could experience all of the effects from ULF to laser shots without fatigue and without the feeling that one region ever over powered the other. I truly got lost in the space more than once. Rob would stop a clip and I'd be silent for about 30 seconds before I realized where I was.

I can't say unequivocally which attribute gives this place it's "wow" because as I said above, the sum of the parts is the key. Keith's knowledge and involvement along with treatment plan, speaker choice, Trinnov, Dolby Lakes, etc, etc, etc. It almost makes choices more difficult because you can't single anything out

People told me I was crazy a couple of years back for considering JBL pro gear..even when I bought SCS8s to test and others, they said "her there's better out there for this". I have to say, if there is, I don't care. The stage is seamless moving from to back, side to side and overhead. The M2, AC28/26, SCS and the 8340a blend perfectly.

What I loved most was Rob's appreciation for the space. You could see the joy in his face when talking about different aspects and about the process. The "is this really mine" attitude that he has about, even being as experienced and versed as he is. A huge congratulations to you again Rob for such an acheivment and thank you so much again for giving me the opportunity to experience it!

Jake
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post #76 of 118 Old 08-18-2016, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post
I had the pleasure of spending last evening with Rob and demoing this space. First, a huge thank you to Rob for his hospitality and willingness to invite a total stranger to his home and share this with me. He's as much a gentleman as one could be and it was a total pleasure to hang out for a few hours sharing thoughts and watching clips. The amount of time and money it will save me to have had the opportunity is significant, as I'm entertaining very similar speaker choices....but to the fun part right:

The pictures and descriptions do not do this place justice! It has to be in the top few most incredible theater spaces out there, and certainly the number one I've ever experienced by a longshot. I'm often brought back to a philosophy that has stuck with me for years that the sum of all parts is greater than any one element. It could not be more true in this case. The details in the space from the molding size, to exact colors of fabric, to lighting, to acoustical treatment and even down to the hundreth of a foot lambert in light on the screen really make all the difference. Balance is a word I found myself using with Rob last night quite a few times. Everything is pleasing to the eye, ear and all other senses for that matter. The space "blacks out" perfectly when watching a film, yet is so comfortable and inviting with the lights on hanging out. It's both elegant and strong at the same time. I had the pleasure of speaking with Keith Yates a couple of years back and we chatted HVAC for half an hour. It Rob's theater, you get lost.....the noise floor is unheard of and not exagerating, you can't ever perceive any sound from the HVAC system when feeding or in return. Keith's ability to design a balanced air exchange system are world class.

The balance doesn't stop there of course. The sound in the theater is absolutely fantastic, not just because the emergence scene in WOTW shook my teath (literally), but because it remained balanced through the scene, throughout the sound spectrum. One could experience all of the effects from ULF to laser shots without fatigue and without the feeling that one region ever over powered the other. I truly got lost in the space more than once. Rob would stop a clip and I'd be silent for about 30 seconds before I realized where I was.

I can't say unequivocally which attribute gives this place it's "wow" because as I said above, the sum of the parts is the key. Keith's knowledge and involvement along with treatment plan, speaker choice, Trinnov, Dolby Lakes, etc, etc, etc. It almost makes choices more difficult because you can't single anything out

People told me I was crazy a couple of years back for considering JBL pro gear..even when I bought SCS8s to test and others, they said "her there's better out there for this". I have to say, if there is, I don't care. The stage is seamless moving from to back, side to side and overhead. The M2, AC28/26, SCS and the 8340a blend perfectly.

What I loved most was Rob's appreciation for the space. You could see the joy in his face when talking about different aspects and about the process. The "is this really mine" attitude that he has about, even being as experienced and versed as he is. A huge congratulations to you again Rob for such an acheivment and thank you so much again for giving me the opportunity to experience it!

Jake
Jake! Now you're ruined!

While we all love to get caught up in the gear an aesthetics, don't forget the extensive acoustic treatments throughout the room which play a huge role in the experience you had. Very large rooms are a bit easier to get good sound from, but also require more total acoustic treatment.

Rob - To give readers a little more understanding of the significant acoustic treatments, can you confirm how thick/deep are the treatments on the various walls and ceiling behind the fabric?
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post #77 of 118 Old 08-18-2016, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post
I had the pleasure of spending last evening with Rob and demoing this space. First, a huge thank you to Rob for his hospitality and willingness to invite a total stranger to his home and share this with me. He's as much a gentleman as one could be and it was a total pleasure to hang out for a few hours sharing thoughts and watching clips. The amount of time and money it will save me to have had the opportunity is significant, as I'm entertaining very similar speaker choices....but to the fun part right:

The pictures and descriptions do not do this place justice! It has to be in the top few most incredible theater spaces out there, and certainly the number one I've ever experienced by a longshot. I'm often brought back to a philosophy that has stuck with me for years that the sum of all parts is greater than any one element. It could not be more true in this case. The details in the space from the molding size, to exact colors of fabric, to lighting, to acoustical treatment and even down to the hundreth of a foot lambert in light on the screen really make all the difference. Balance is a word I found myself using with Rob last night quite a few times. Everything is pleasing to the eye, ear and all other senses for that matter. The space "blacks out" perfectly when watching a film, yet is so comfortable and inviting with the lights on hanging out. It's both elegant and strong at the same time. I had the pleasure of speaking with Keith Yates a couple of years back and we chatted HVAC for half an hour. It Rob's theater, you get lost.....the noise floor is unheard of and not exagerating, you can't ever perceive any sound from the HVAC system when feeding or in return. Keith's ability to design a balanced air exchange system are world class.

The balance doesn't stop there of course. The sound in the theater is absolutely fantastic, not just because the emergence scene in WOTW shook my teath (literally), but because it remained balanced through the scene, throughout the sound spectrum. One could experience all of the effects from ULF to laser shots without fatigue and without the feeling that one region ever over powered the other. I truly got lost in the space more than once. Rob would stop a clip and I'd be silent for about 30 seconds before I realized where I was.

I can't say unequivocally which attribute gives this place it's "wow" because as I said above, the sum of the parts is the key. Keith's knowledge and involvement along with treatment plan, speaker choice, Trinnov, Dolby Lakes, etc, etc, etc. It almost makes choices more difficult because you can't single anything out

People told me I was crazy a couple of years back for considering JBL pro gear..even when I bought SCS8s to test and others, they said "her there's better out there for this". I have to say, if there is, I don't care. The stage is seamless moving from to back, side to side and overhead. The M2, AC28/26, SCS and the 8340a blend perfectly.

What I loved most was Rob's appreciation for the space. You could see the joy in his face when talking about different aspects and about the process. The "is this really mine" attitude that he has about, even being as experienced and versed as he is. A huge congratulations to you again Rob for such an acheivment and thank you so much again for giving me the opportunity to experience it!

Jake
You're welcome Jake! It was a pleasure spending time with you. I'm so pleased you were able to see the space, watch some clips - maybe it'll help you in your endeavor. It's certainly what Art & Jeff and everyone else did for me when they let me experience their theaters. It was enormously helpful!

Best,

-Rob

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ter-build.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/92-com...n-theater.html
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post #78 of 118 Old 08-18-2016, 11:02 AM
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Jake! Now you're ruined!

While we all love to get caught up in the gear an aesthetics, don't forget the extensive acoustic treatments throughout the room which play a huge role in the experience you had. Very large rooms are a bit easier to get good sound from, but also require more total acoustic treatment.

Rob - To give readers a little more understanding of the significant acoustic treatments, can you confirm how thick/deep are the treatments on the various walls and ceiling behind the fabric?
Hey Mark! (Thanks again for steering me to Keith. Without you, I never would have had such an amazing experience). You're right about the treatment. Getting the room 'right' was the most important aspect of this whole project. All the gear can be changed, but it's vastly more difficult to change the room!

I'm not sure how comfortable Keith would be to share specifics about the acoustic treatment, as that's really his 'magic sauce' and why you'd want to hire him instead of someone else. My natural instinct is to share... Let me check with him first...

Best,

-Rob

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ter-build.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/92-com...n-theater.html
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post #79 of 118 Old 08-18-2016, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
Jake! Now you're ruined!

While we all love to get caught up in the gear an aesthetics, don't forget the extensive acoustic treatments throughout the room which play a huge role in the experience you had. Very large rooms are a bit easier to get good sound from, but also require more total acoustic treatment.

Rob - To give readers a little more understanding of the significant acoustic treatments, can you confirm how thick/deep are the treatments on the various walls and ceiling behind the fabric?
I am Mark! Seeing the treatments through the fabric when Rob turned the lighting on behind there was one of my favorite things! It's ok though I've not got a decision to make (we all know how well I do that ) on what I am willing to invest to get most of the way there. Rob and I talked quite a bit about the room and the treatment plan and making that priority (which a lot of us know to be true all along of course). I think what this visit has done for me, aside from validating the JBL pro choices I was making starting a couple of years back, was convinced me to get the best plans, the best treatment plan for my initial choices and then move from there.
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Rob - To give readers a little more understanding of the significant acoustic treatments, can you confirm how thick/deep are the treatments on the various walls and ceiling behind the fabric?
There is plenty of FULL bandwidth diffusion going on in there. Expensive in parts and real estate.
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post #81 of 118 Old 08-18-2016, 02:13 PM
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There is plenty of FULL bandwidth diffusion going on in there. Expensive in parts and real estate.
I'm well aware of what is generally behind the fabric of most of Keith's designs. My point is for others to grasp the extent of treatment, especially wide band treatment that simply can't occur in 3" thick panels and devices.
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post #82 of 118 Old 08-18-2016, 03:35 PM
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I just made the first step and called KYD! Even though I'm an architectural grad I have been fighting myself with room plans every since I actually dug the footing for my room.

Rob, your space is the pinnacle for true home theater and 99% of us will never have the opportunity to build such a grande room just based on the footprint alone but if KYD can make a 18'x35x10' room shell as enveloping as what yours seems to be then I would be a fool not to call him while I'm still in the middle of designing my HT2.0 makeover.

I have 1' of wall space, maybe more, for treatments if I downsize my 4 seats per row to 3 seats per row. The later would be better anyway since there would be a true money seat this way. I've literally become obsessed with your theater every since I read your build thread the very first time. It didn't take seconds or minutes to notice each and every little detail. As I was reading through the thread my mind was in like an overflow mode of wow, that's perfect, I never would have thought of that, oh that's how that's done.....over and over. And with all my background in design it just made it consume me even more. I've seen and studied tons of spaces ranging from residential to commercial to bridges and this room has totally grabbed me and sucked me into its every nut and bolt.

I've thought many theaters were great and even seen some that thought could truly live with for the most part with only minor changes but not yours Rob. Even your seats are perfect for the room and you just basically got them on a whim since they had the feature you wanted. But, they worked perfectly just like the carpet transition from the side wall and riser worked perfectly. The seats help carry that back into the theater all the way to the back row. Some may think I'm silly for pointing out the little things like how the seats mixed with the wall and carpet is perfect but when one has sat through hundreds of hours of design classes things like that pop out instantly.

I'm sure his price will be over my (family physician and real estate investor) income but if I don't inquire then I'll always be left wondering what could have been.
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post #83 of 118 Old 08-18-2016, 05:56 PM
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I just made the first step and called KYD! Even though I'm an architectural grad I have been fighting myself with room plans every since I actually dug the footing for my room.

Rob, your space is the pinnacle for true home theater and 99% of us will never have the opportunity to build such a grande room just based on the footprint alone but if KYD can make a 18'x35x10' room shell as enveloping as what yours seems to be then I would be a fool not to call him while I'm still in the middle of designing my HT2.0 makeover.

I have 1' of wall space, maybe more, for treatments if I downsize my 4 seats per row to 3 seats per row. The later would be better anyway since there would be a true money seat this way. I've literally become obsessed with your theater every since I read your build thread the very first time. It didn't take seconds or minutes to notice each and every little detail. As I was reading through the thread my mind was in like an overflow mode of wow, that's perfect, I never would have thought of that, oh that's how that's done.....over and over. And with all my background in design it just made it consume me even more. I've seen and studied tons of spaces ranging from residential to commercial to bridges and this room has totally grabbed me and sucked me into its every nut and bolt.

I've thought many theaters were great and even seen some that thought could truly live with for the most part with only minor changes but not yours Rob. Even your seats are perfect for the room and you just basically got them on a whim since they had the feature you wanted. But, they worked perfectly just like the carpet transition from the side wall and riser worked perfectly. The seats help carry that back into the theater all the way to the back row. Some may think I'm silly for pointing out the little things like how the seats mixed with the wall and carpet is perfect but when one has sat through hundreds of hours of design classes things like that pop out instantly.

I'm sure his price will be over my (family physician and real estate investor) income but if I don't inquire then I'll always be left wondering what could have been.
Good move. I would suggest going in realizing that the construction, HVAC installation, and detailed design drawings required to achieve the NC-5 target Keith's team has made a habit of executing represents a significant portion of completed costs. While it very much is a case where the holistic attention to detail is the key to achieve the heightened experience that Art and Jake (ChopShop1) described, a comprehensive acoustic treatment design should be within reach of anyone considering a Trinnov Altitude or RS-20i.

There is a lot of public knowledge and common practice to achieve "very good" sound isolation and lower noise climate control. Here someone staying on top of the contractors to follow every detail specified is key, as the best design is worthless if it isn't executed. This might not get you to the extraordinary benchmarks Keith's team has made common in their designs, but it is possible to do dramatically better than most with some general input and a lot of homework... and a lot less cost.

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post #84 of 118 Old 08-18-2016, 07:31 PM
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Good move. I would suggest going in realizing that the construction, HVAC installation, and detailed design drawings required to achieve the NC-5 target Keith's team has made a habit of executing represents a significant portion of completed costs. While it very much is a case where the holistic attention to detail is the key to achieve the heightened experience that Art and Jake (ChopShop1) described, a comprehensive acoustic treatment design should be within reach of anyone considering a Trinnov Altitude or RS-20i.

There is a lot of public knowledge and common practice to achieve "very good" sound isolation and lower noise climate control. Here someone staying on top of the contractors to follow every detail specified is key, as the best design is worthless if it isn't executed. This might not get you to the extraordinary benchmarks Keith's team has made common in their designs, but it is possible to do dramatically better than most with some general input and a lot of homework... and a lot less cost.

While I realize there are many many reasons for such low noise floors and sound isolation but I want to use IB subs for the low end spread out throughout the attic so that would completely defeat the soundproofing. I wouldn't mind partial sound isolation to keep sounds from entering the theater and understand that technically there really isn't much gained by not completely soundproofing the entire system. Our theater is in an entire different wing of the house than any sleeping quarters or other rooms that would generate noise.

I bring this up since you mention that is one of their practices. I live out in the middle of nowhere on a farm so when I built the addition I didn't even consider sound proofing the room since I have so many subs (10-21" drivers as of now). I did do a few things with the hvac to help quit it down but that was pretty much it. Will this totally go against his practices or is this something that just has to be worked around when total sound isolation just isn't feasible?

My goal is to eventually have a 24-32channel Quested Altitude 32 system so really want the in depth room treatment analysis he offers if I can afford it. Then the actual room design with fabric or whatever else he envisions would be next. Doing the basic contractor work would be on me as I grew up building houses.

I don't know if that is a service he has to offer but worth inquiring about since all I would be doing is alternating panels around the room without in actual 3D analysis. It would be better than a lot of rooms just by following the standard guidelines but far from a 100% modeled room.

Will see what he has to say and if it's anywhere remotely in our price range. I have the standard Erksine room plan I paid for 6 years ago but that isn't really worth much now with Atmos and 3 times the amount of channels. I'm willing to shrink my room seating down from 12 seats to 9 for a really great looking/sounding space that would outperform my original plan with slim panels. I also don't want the traditional columns and sconces. I want a more modern room with a unique lighting plan.
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If I recall correctly from my conversations with Steve Haas and some with Keith, I vaguely remember that full band diffraction takes 14", you can get the most bang for the buck by going to 9" Steve Haas explained. Of all my moons Hyperion has 7" making it the deepest.

For The Reference Atmos Theater the rt60 values 10-10,000khz is 400 (this obviously changes a bit for a smaller ht or rerec dub stage- but still Andrew Poulain said would work best). What I had no idea is how little absorption is needed for this and how much more diffraction is needed, in general it is fair to say that prior to the Hahn Theater and lesser extent Hyperion, most of our theaters are overly damped by way too much. Walter was right that the seats soak up tremendous amount of energy so I am really interested if we can create a wideband 14'. 9" deep refractor DYI thread.


Any volunteers?

I do agree this is one of the greatest theaters anywhere, but with a small caveat. So much money went into the room but that left the projector department in high end status quo. The double glass pane and sticking to blu laser really fails to push the envelope to the fidelity level of everything else in this masterpiece. Sorry Rob for nitpicking, please take as an earnest well meaning recommendation for a future upgrade; I salivate at the prospect of a 6p laser in this awesomest viewing space. You should get a compact 6p demo on site in the not too distant future. You will not believe your eyes.
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post #86 of 118 Old 08-18-2016, 07:58 PM
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Good move. I would suggest going in realizing that the construction, HVAC installation, and detailed design drawings required to achieve the NC-5 target Keith's team has made a habit of executing represents a significant portion of completed costs. While it very much is a case where the holistic attention to detail is the key to achieve the heightened experience that Art and Jake (ChopShop1) described, a comprehensive acoustic treatment design should be within reach of anyone considering a Trinnov Altitude or RS-20i.

There is a lot of public knowledge and common practice to achieve "very good" sound isolation and lower noise climate control. Here someone staying on top of the contractors to follow every detail specified is key, as the best design is worthless if it isn't executed. This might not get you to the extraordinary benchmarks Keith's team has made common in their designs, but it is possible to do dramatically better than most with some general input and a lot of homework... and a lot less cost.
Indeed! After building two major state of the art recording studios and control rooms, and several high-end HT rooms, GC'ing the project is mandatory. Its about like building a "Bio Hazard" containment room One wrong move and you won't get there...
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post #87 of 118 Old 08-18-2016, 08:07 PM
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While I realize there are many many reasons for such low noise floors and sound isolation but I want to use IB subs for the low end spread out throughout the attic so that would completely defeat the soundproofing. I wouldn't mind partial sound isolation to keep sounds from entering the theater and understand that technically there really isn't much gained by not completely soundproofing the entire system. Our theater is in an entire different wing of the house than any sleeping quarters or other rooms that would generate noise.

I bring this up since you mention that is one of their practices. I live out in the middle of nowhere on a farm so when I built the addition I didn't even consider sound proofing the room since I have so many subs (10-21" drivers as of now). I did do a few things with the hvac to help quit it down but that was pretty much it. Will this totally go against his practices or is this something that just has to be worked around when total sound isolation just isn't feasible?

My goal is to eventually have a 24-32channel Quested Altitude 32 system so really want the in depth room treatment analysis he offers if I can afford it. Then the actual room design with fabric or whatever else he envisions would be next. Doing the basic contractor work would be on me as I grew up building houses.

I don't know if that is a service he has to offer but worth inquiring about since all I would be doing is alternating panels around the room without in actual 3D analysis. It would be better than a lot of rooms just by following the standard guidelines but far from a 100% modeled room.

Will see what he has to say and if it's anywhere remotely in our price range. I have the standard Erksine room plan I paid for 6 years ago but that isn't really worth much now with Atmos and 3 times the amount of channels. I'm willing to shrink my room seating down from 12 seats to 9 for a really great looking/sounding space that would outperform my original plan with slim panels. I also don't want the traditional columns and sconces. I want a more modern room with a unique lighting plan.

Yes, but a lot of these measures have more to do with what's in the room, not what's coming in the room. "Coupled" HVAC units, untreated and/or improperly treated inbound power, sympathetic vibrations and other coupling issues, improper dimming, improper wiring, and a host of other things with in the room itself, must be addressed. And then of course there's the proper usage of absorption/diffusion, etc... Cause you can't cheat and use too much absorption to get there...
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If I recall correctly from my conversations with Steve Haas and some with Keith, I vaguely remember that full band diffraction takes 14", you can get the most bang for the buck by going to 9" Steve Haas explained. Of all my moons Hyperion has 7" making it the deepest.

For The Reference Atmos Theater the rt60 values 10-10,000khz is 400 (this obviously changes a bit for a smaller ht or rerec dub stage- but still Andrew Poulain said would work best). What I had no idea is how little absorption is needed for this and how much more diffraction is needed, in general it is fair to say that prior to the Hahn Theater and lesser extent Hyperion, most of our theaters are overly damped by way too much. Walter was right that the seats soak up tremendous amount of energy so I am really interested if we can create a wideband 14'. 9" deep refractor DYI thread.
While I get the intent, talking about RT60 of a very large space as a guideline for home theater application is misguided and lead to incorrect approaches and conclusions.

Keith's rooms have long be dominantly diffusive above ~500Hz. While he has long used thick/deep, broad band devices, after a few years of experimenting with his outdoor theater, he and his team got even more aggressive in controlling the lower range below ~250-500Hz. Your looking to RT60 can quickly mislead the efforts.

Absorption can still be useful, especially if you can't get sufficient diffusion in the space. I always remember a casual but very relevant comment by Keith that was something to the effect of "broad band absorption in the right places is the poor man's diffusion." In other words, thick absorption in the right locations while leaving enough reflective surfaces to keep the room from getting too dead. Fortunately today it is much easier to find affordable diffusion, lending even more options to outfitting a room.
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post #89 of 118 Old 08-18-2016, 09:24 PM
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I just made the first step and called KYD! Even though I'm an architectural grad I have been fighting myself with room plans every since I actually dug the footing for my room.

Rob, your space is the pinnacle for true home theater and 99% of us will never have the opportunity to build such a grande room just based on the footprint alone but if KYD can make a 18'x35x10' room shell as enveloping as what yours seems to be then I would be a fool not to call him while I'm still in the middle of designing my HT2.0 makeover.

I have 1' of wall space, maybe more, for treatments if I downsize my 4 seats per row to 3 seats per row. The later would be better anyway since there would be a true money seat this way. I've literally become obsessed with your theater every since I read your build thread the very first time. It didn't take seconds or minutes to notice each and every little detail. As I was reading through the thread my mind was in like an overflow mode of wow, that's perfect, I never would have thought of that, oh that's how that's done.....over and over. And with all my background in design it just made it consume me even more. I've seen and studied tons of spaces ranging from residential to commercial to bridges and this room has totally grabbed me and sucked me into its every nut and bolt.

I've thought many theaters were great and even seen some that thought could truly live with for the most part with only minor changes but not yours Rob. Even your seats are perfect for the room and you just basically got them on a whim since they had the feature you wanted. But, they worked perfectly just like the carpet transition from the side wall and riser worked perfectly. The seats help carry that back into the theater all the way to the back row. Some may think I'm silly for pointing out the little things like how the seats mixed with the wall and carpet is perfect but when one has sat through hundreds of hours of design classes things like that pop out instantly.

I'm sure his price will be over my (family physician and real estate investor) income but if I don't inquire then I'll always be left wondering what could have been.
I'm so flattered and humbled - and very pleased you noticed all the little details. Attention to detail is, for me, the most important thing. It's what makes any experience great, whether it's a memorable music performance, a beautifully designed building, an exquisite space (Disneyland, for example - not Disney World), a life-changing movie; it's all about the detail. When you sweat the details, the sum ends up being greater than the parts.

When I'm lighting a film, I'm micro-focused on every single shadow I'm creating, every shaft of light, how it architecturally paints every frame - there are _so_ many details. And, of course, I'm never satisfied. But when it's all finished and put together, you step back and (hopefully), it works.

However, you also see that no one really notices all the details you put in. That's ok, because they subconsciously sense the care you took. Without those details, the end product just wouldn't be the same.

So how does one get there? Well, for me, it's just noting all the things that made me crazy when I visited a commercial theater. "Why is the screen so high? I don't like craning my head. Why do my ears bleed when it gets loud? Why is it out of focus? Why is the black level so crappy? Why can't I understand what's being said?"

Alternatively, I paid attention when I liked what I saw: "Why is this film presentation so powerful? Why do I like the sound system so much?" I'm sure all of you do the exact same thing... Then it's just a matter of putting all the positive elements into your design and deleting all the elements that would detract from that design. And with Keith, I found a kindred spirit - he knew immediately what I was trying to do, so it wasn't a challenge to communicate how I wanted the end product to look & feel. He just got it.

Then it was our chore to impart and translate that dream to the Contractor and all his guys. Truthfully, at first, they had no idea why we were asking for all this incredibly minute stuff to be done - but they did it on faith. It was only after the room was coming together that they said, "Oh _now_ I get it!" The contractor's son (who worked on the job) was at our house today doing some extra work for us, said, "You know, you used to drive us a little crazy with all your questions about every little thing. You were very nice about it, but we all scratched our heads somewhat: 'Is it _really_ important to have the reveal on that molding be 7/16" instead of 1/2"?' Now that it's finished, I realize it's all those tiny details that make the theater so special... Can I watch 'Star Wars?'"

I told him to get back to work.

Thanks again for those very kind words. You're smart to contact KYD. They aren't cheap, that's true, but you get (in spades) what you pay for and they are _wonderful_ to work with! And Keith really knows what he's doing. There's no Emperor's Clothes here...

-Rob

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post #90 of 118 Old 08-18-2016, 09:40 PM
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I do agree this is one of the greatest theaters anywhere, but with a small caveat. So much money went into the room but that left the projector department in high end status quo. The double glass pane and sticking to blu laser really fails to push the envelope to the fidelity level of everything else in this masterpiece. Sorry Rob for nitpicking, please take as an earnest well meaning recommendation for a future upgrade; I salivate at the prospect of a 6p laser in this awesomest viewing space. You should get a compact 6p demo on site in the not too distant future. You will not believe your eyes.
Thanks Peter! Believe me, I get it. As i mentioned elsewhere, I was concerned about putting double panes in front of the lens - but truthfully, the projector is a temporary tenant - I know that. I never have intended for the 5000 to be the final pj choice. That said, I've been pleasantly surprised how good the image looks (and I'm _really_ picky). Is it perfect? No way! Could it be better? Absolutely! Is it fairly (even quite) decent for the time being? You bet!

You might even say "How can you say you're picky when you say you like the 5000?" Well, all I can tell you is that the image in my theater can look pretty beautiful. I like the way it's calibrated. But hey, everyone's taste is different...

I can't _wait_ to audition a 6p. Believe me, I'm not married to the Sony. But we all have a budget and it was available and we needed a pj (obviously) so we put it in - and frankly, it looks pretty damn good. But I'm very open to explore new and better options - always!

-Rob

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/92-com...n-theater.html

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