The Official 5000ES 4K Laser Sony Owner's Thread - Page 37 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1081 of 2762 Old 06-21-2017, 09:11 PM
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My installer just calibrated my projector using the Lumagen Radiance Pro. For much of the calibration he had the President of Lumagen on the phone. After putting the Lumagen in the chain, the projector no longer indicates it is receiving an HDR signal. The reason, I'm told, is that the Lumagen does the HDR processing and does not send the HDR flag to the projector. It was explained to me that "the projector no longer needs to kick into HDR mode because the Lumagen uses its HDR mapping feature and handles black level conversion internally". I am watching Planet Earth as I write this. The Lumagen menu shows an input format of "422-HDR2020" and an out to the projector of "422-SDR2020".

Does this make sense to you experienced calibtrators? I must say, the picture on the Planet Earth DVD is astonishing.
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post #1082 of 2762 Old 06-21-2017, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by wcp56 View Post
My installer just calibrated my projector using the Lumagen Radiance Pro. For much of the calibration he had the President of Lumagen on the phone. After putting the Lumagen in the chain, the projector no longer indicates it is receiving an HDR signal. The reason, I'm told, is that the Lumagen does the HDR processing and does not send the HDR flag to the projector. It was explained to me that "the projector no longer needs to kick into HDR mode because the Lumagen uses its HDR mapping feature and handles black level conversion internally". I am watching Planet Earth as I write this. The Lumagen menu shows an input format of "422-HDR2020" and an out to the projector of "422-SDR2020".

Does this make sense to you experienced calibtrators? I must say, the picture on the Planet Earth DVD is astonishing.
What your calibrator did was correct. The purpose of setting the Pro to SDR2020 is to prevent the projector from activating its' own HDR mapping engine and letting the Pro handle all the HDR mapping. If both are active the resulting image is compromised.
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post #1083 of 2762 Old 06-21-2017, 10:24 PM
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What your calibrator did was correct. The purpose of setting the Pro to SDR2020 is to prevent the projector from activating its' own HDR mapping engine and letting the Pro handle all the HDR mapping. If both are active the resulting image is compromised.
Thanks, that's good to know! Do any others on the board have this set-up?
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post #1084 of 2762 Old 06-21-2017, 10:51 PM
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Hi Ash

I am considering going from current 14' wide 2.37:1 to 16'wide 2.37:1 . I am going to stay with Screenexcellence 4KEN. Is anyone using ISCO with the 5000ES? What are your thoughts. I am not sure if I should go with curved or flat? If I dont use ISCO, is there any benefit of getting curved screen? If I do get curved, what radius should I select?/ My throw distance will be roughly 25' from the center of the lens.

Thanks
Is anyone using ISCO IIIL with the Sony? I want to keep my lens and cineslide as long as it doesn't degrade the picture . I am just wondering ISCO L that used to cost 10k or so has to be much higher quality lens than that's in Sony!!! So it shouldn't compromise the resolution??
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post #1085 of 2762 Old 06-21-2017, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mani View Post
Is anyone using ISCO IIIL with the Sony? I want to keep my lens and cineslide as long as it doesn't degrade the picture . I am just wondering ISCO L that used to cost 10k or so has to be much higher quality lens than that's in Sony!!! So it shouldn't compromise the resolution??
I have the ISCO 1.25x (touted as the best a-lens money can buy on Planet Earth), which I was using with the 1100ES and it was unbelievably transparent - clearly much sharper than zooming using projector's lens. The 5000ES has the same lens as the 1100ES and am sure will likewise give a great image. I'm using an ST lens w/o ISCO on the 5000ES and don't seem to be able to match the PQ of that generated by 1100ES + 1.25x for the same width scope image.
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post #1086 of 2762 Old 06-22-2017, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by RS3771 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mani View Post
Is anyone using ISCO IIIL with the Sony? I want to keep my lens and cineslide as long as it doesn't degrade the picture . I am just wondering ISCO L that used to cost 10k or so has to be much higher quality lens than that's in Sony!!! So it shouldn't compromise the resolution??
I have the ISCO 1.25x (touted as the best a-lens money can buy on Planet Earth), which I was using with the 1100ES and it was unbelievably transparent - clearly much sharper than zooming using projector's lens. The 5000ES has the same lens as the 1100ES and am sure will likewise give a great image. I'm using an ST lens w/o ISCO on the 5000ES and don't seem to be able to match the PQ of that generated by 1100ES + 1.25x for the same width scope image.
That sounds troubling .... as I have already ordered 5000es . I would assume 5000es should give much better image on the same sized screen without ISCO lens as compared to 1100es , given the laser light source and double the lumens !!!
I guess I will keep the lens and get a curved screen
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post #1087 of 2762 Old 06-22-2017, 12:01 AM
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By the way I have 1.33 ISCOIII L lens with coneslide
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post #1088 of 2762 Old 06-22-2017, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by wcp56 View Post
Thanks, that's good to know! Do any others on the board have this set-up?
Yes, I would say that anyone with a lumagen and a professional calibration would have it set up that way- thats how I have it. And picture is outstanding!
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post #1089 of 2762 Old 06-22-2017, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mani View Post
That sounds troubling .... as I have already ordered 5000es . I would assume 5000es should give much better image on the same sized screen without ISCO lens as compared to 1100es , given the laser light source and double the lumens !!!
I guess I will keep the lens and get a curved screen
Don't jump to conclusions yet as I haven't provided all the info.-

Here are my observations:


Where the 5000ES trumps the 1100ES:
  • · Lumens – there’s no denying how extraordinarily bright this PJ is
  • · Black levels – absolutely fantastic – even some of the older blu-ray titles look incredibly good as far as contrast goes – 1100ES is no match
  • · 3D performance – again, it’s impossible for 1100ES to match the performance of 5000ES for 10 ft+ wide screens
  • · Reality creation works much better in 5000ES than 1100ES because of the new settings
  • · HDR of course – although mine’s not yet calibrated

Where the 1100ES trumps the 5000ES:
  • · Always a consistent, smooth, and creamy image – is not very sensitive like the 5000ES when it comes to older movies shot on film or if the blu-ray transfer is less than stellar, there’s noise and grains that show-up (never the case w/1100ES + Radiance Pro combo)
  • · The display surface that was perfect for 1100ES (in my case) is showing a lot of noise, sparkles, shimmering, texture, etc. for the 5000ES – more than likely, you’ll need to change your screen (& I have a 1.3-gain painted wall – with specially formulated paint – that worked like a charm for the 1100ES but not for 5000ES)
  • · So, in one sense, a true apples-to-apples comparison can’t be made – I may be able to better comment after I install a Stewart ST100 screen (to get back the smooth creamy image I’m used to seeing from the 1100ES)
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post #1090 of 2762 Old 06-22-2017, 03:58 PM
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Hi RS
That's reassuring . I will be using AT screen excellence 4K enlightor screen that has hain of .9 or .95 I believe . So sparkles etc shouldn't be an issue.
So how do you determine the radius of the curved screen to be used ?. I couldn't find any literature on Schneider optics site or any projectors website . Front of my ISCO III L will be roughly 22-23 feet from the screen . I likely will go with 180" or 190" wide 2.37:1 screen
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post #1091 of 2762 Old 06-22-2017, 06:32 PM
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Also... can 5000es do scaling for 1.33 anamorphic lens ? From what I have read it has a 4K panel and not UHD panel and therefore requires 1.25 conversion for 2.37:1 screen. Does it have an option for 1.33 lens in its scaling
Thanks
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post #1092 of 2762 Old 06-22-2017, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mani View Post
Also... can 5000es do scaling for 1.33 anamorphic lens ? From what I have read it has a 4K panel and not UHD panel and therefore requires 1.25 conversion for 2.37:1 screen. Does it have an option for 1.33 lens in its scaling
Thanks
Yes, in the internal menu you can choose between 1.25 or 1.33 lens.
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post #1093 of 2762 Old 06-23-2017, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mani View Post
Also... can 5000es do scaling for 1.33 anamorphic lens ? From what I have read it has a 4K panel and not UHD panel and therefore requires 1.25 conversion for 2.37:1 screen. Does it have an option for 1.33 lens in its scaling
Thanks
Yes, it does - but Sony does not recommend it. They specifically recommend the 1.25x conversion. There's a discernible difference in PQ between 1.33 & 1.25 lens (much more superior) - some of the expert users have readily attested to it although some would argue. Based on my own experience, the 1.25 lens is way superior to 1.33.
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post #1094 of 2762 Old 06-23-2017, 04:27 PM
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I understand 1.25 will be ideal , but I already have more than 12k invested in current ISCO. So I am deciding between using current ISCO or not use and A lens . Or I may use A lens with non 4K source material and watch 4K material without A lens
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post #1095 of 2762 Old 06-23-2017, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by RS3771 View Post
Based on my own experience, the 1.25 lens is way superior to 1.33.
Different question but related to AR - but the 5000 manual shows AR of 2:35 but most 'newer' movies are 2.39.40 - for this AR is there a setting in the 5000 (without anamorphic lens) to display?
Or do you lose the difference between 2:35 and 2:40...
Thanks in advance.
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post #1096 of 2762 Old 06-23-2017, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
Different question but related to AR - but the 5000 manual shows AR of 2:35 but most 'newer' movies are 2.39.40 - for this AR is there a setting in the 5000 (without anamorphic lens) to display?
Or do you lose the difference between 2:35 and 2:40...
Thanks in advance.
Sony doesn't have a separate setting for 2.40:1 (of course, the difference between 2.35:1 and 2.40:1 is miniscule and has been discussed at length in some thread). Based on personal experience, the PQ is better with zooming the 16:9 image to fill the screen than using Sony's internal 2.35:1 zoom scaling.
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post #1097 of 2762 Old 06-24-2017, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mani View Post
Looking for opinions on the screen .
I will be buying 5000ES in next month or so . I currently have Sim2Lumis HOSt and use it with ISCO and Screen Excellence 4K screen - 168" wide , 2.37:1 screen. I am thinking of changing the screen as well. I can go a foot wider with space available, but am not sure if I should go with 16:9 screen this time? 16;9 viewing on the current screen without ISCO definitely is less engaging, esp once you have viewed 168" wide image. I don't plan to use ISCO with 5000ES. If I do go with 16:9 screen without masking, will the black bars be noticeable? Will 170-180" wide 16:9 screen be too big?

On the side note, I will need to run about 50' long HDMI cable through conduit from my equipment room to Hush box. What are the best options?

Thanks
What is your viewing distance. I assume you are sticking with AT? I would take a look at the V6 fabric paired with a DreamScreen frame.
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post #1098 of 2762 Old 06-24-2017, 08:41 AM
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Hi Mike

Eye distance from 1st row approx 15 feet and from second from approx 20-21 ft
Yes I will stick with AT as LCR's are baffle mounted behind the screen
Where can I get quote for dreamscreen? How does it compare to 4K enlightor screen excellence ( which I have enjoyed for last 4 yrs )

Thanks
Mani
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post #1099 of 2762 Old 06-24-2017, 12:23 PM
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What do you guys think of the Draper1.0 gain 8k matte screen? I have a 10 foot screen, with the projector about 13 feet from the screen. My current screen has a gain of 1.3.
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post #1100 of 2762 Old 06-27-2017, 05:11 AM
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@ccool96 , have you had a chance to check the contrast levels on both your 5000s lately? You being in FLA (with high humidity levels) is of particular interest.
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post #1101 of 2762 Old 06-27-2017, 06:11 AM
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^ no news is good news...

UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
Sony VPL-VW5000es • Panamorph Paladin DCR • Trinnov Altitude 16 • Crown DCIn amplifiers • JBL M2 (LCR-LW-RW) • JBL S2S-EX subwoofers x2 • JBL SCL-4 (side/rear surrounds) • JBL SCS12 (x4) SCS8 (x2) TH/RH/TM • Lumagen Radiance Pro • Panasonic UB820 • Apple TV 4k • Synology RAID (45 TB total storage) • RTI control system
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post #1102 of 2762 Old 06-27-2017, 07:34 AM
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Don't know where you guys are on hours but some good data indicates that the 5000 does not deteriorate.


Art
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post #1103 of 2762 Old 06-27-2017, 11:32 AM
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^ no news is good news...
Exactly my thought as well- I was also worried about my installation - in equally hot-humid Houston - but at least, the AC is mostly on this summer (constantly at 78 F - found an attractive deal with a power company w/o bank-breaking electricity bills!) and I do turn on the PJ every single night.
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post #1104 of 2762 Old 06-27-2017, 12:41 PM
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Interesting read - speaks to why we haven't seen Dolby Vision on HT projectors yet...


http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...of-hdr10/39249
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post #1105 of 2762 Old 06-27-2017, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mani View Post
I understand 1.25 will be ideal , but I already have more than 12k invested in current ISCO. So I am deciding between using current ISCO or not use and A lens . Or I may use A lens with non 4K source material and watch 4K material without A lens
On the side note I may end up selling my current ISCO with cineslide and try 1.25 lens . Probably will sell it with my Sim2 LUmis Host - Hopefully locally. Will list on the classifieds soon . Is anyone using 1.25 with a flat screen and at what throw distance ? Any observable pincushioning ?

Thanks
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post #1106 of 2762 Old 06-28-2017, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by NickTheo View Post
Interesting read - speaks to why we haven't seen Dolby Vision on HT projectors yet...


http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...of-hdr10/39249


Thanks for the post, though I don't read it as a deep-think article. The key benefit of Dolby Vision, dynamic metadata, could be adopted by high end projectors if the manufacturers wished to. But with dynamic HDR-10 on the horizon, it remains to be seen what in-roads DV will make longer term. One question I have is when dynamic HDR10 is official, will the base HDR layer in a DV master contain the "old (now current) static HDR flag, or the new (forthcoming) dynamic HDR metadata. I wonder what the mandate is for this...

UPDATED 4/29/17 Thrang's Home Theater (for now...)
Sony VPL-VW5000es • Panamorph Paladin DCR • Trinnov Altitude 16 • Crown DCIn amplifiers • JBL M2 (LCR-LW-RW) • JBL S2S-EX subwoofers x2 • JBL SCL-4 (side/rear surrounds) • JBL SCS12 (x4) SCS8 (x2) TH/RH/TM • Lumagen Radiance Pro • Panasonic UB820 • Apple TV 4k • Synology RAID (45 TB total storage) • RTI control system
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post #1107 of 2762 Old 06-28-2017, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mani View Post
On the side note I may end up selling my current ISCO with cineslide and try 1.25 lens . Probably will sell it with my Sim2 LUmis Host - Hopefully locally. Will list on the classifieds soon . Is anyone using 1.25 with a flat screen and at what throw distance ? Any observable pincushioning ?

Thanks
I was using 1.25 on flat screen (short throw ratio - 1:1 almost; 14 ft throw distance) - there was noticeable pin cushion (lower edge for some reason) - but seemed pretty minimal/mild to not even distract me - plus I never bothered to fine-tune the lens yaw, pitch, and all that good stuff. But the lens quality is amazing.
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post #1108 of 2762 Old 06-29-2017, 05:10 PM
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Does anyone have a Crestron Control File for the ES5000?
I will appreciate if I can get a copy...
Thanks.
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post #1109 of 2762 Old 07-05-2017, 06:12 PM
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I had succes in playing VUDU UHD (no HDR no DV) with ATMOS on My Trinnov - please see my post on the Trinnov thread - don't want to double post...
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post #1110 of 2762 Old 07-07-2017, 11:16 PM
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I have a chance to get a 5000Es at a decent price. My screen is 10 ft. wide.
Is it worth it or overkill, in my case?

Thanks,
David

DES
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