The Official 5000ES 4K Laser Sony Owner's Thread - Page 56 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1651 of 3028 Old 12-01-2017, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
I hope it works out. A single 5000 is the best projection I've had so...



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The added brightness for you with a 16' wide screen from two 5000 projectors will enable you to change from 1.3 to 1.0 gain Snowmatte which will be BIG in [email protected]@@ You will see!

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post #1652 of 3028 Old 12-01-2017, 07:58 PM
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Getting ready for Ken Whitcomb to be here tomorrow to setup a 5000ES stack.

While Ken has successfully completed a vertical stack (one unit on top of the other), my room and Art’s room would work better with two units side by side. This will put the lenses further apart, so before we start cutting additional holes in walls, we want to make sure this is a workable solution.

My room has a 17’ wide Vistascope and Art’s room has a 16’ wide Vistascope.

While I get plenty of brightness for SDR on my 17’ wide screen, I certainly could use more output for HDR.

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post #1653 of 3028 Old 12-01-2017, 08:07 PM
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I am also considering a stack at my other house. It currently has a 5000ES on a 14’ wide 2.0 aspect - 4way masking screen.

But the 2.0 aspect screen certainly complicates things, since you can’t use lens memories with a stack.

I have plenty of ceiling height here, so I can do a vertical stack which will keep the lenses very close.

I need to talk with Jim Peterson at Lumagen about how we could scale the image so that we could set the projectors to always fill the entire screen area, and correctly select scope or 16:9 aspect electronically.




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post #1654 of 3028 Old 12-02-2017, 06:01 AM
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Chris,
Thanks for posting pictures of the slightly offset 5000 in your one theater. I don't recall anything as to why this was required although but I'm certainly waiting with my usual impatience to see the results of the testing.


I was looking and it does appear that over /under would be possible in my room but the margin is scary. The issues is the heads in the front row sitting up if the person were taller.


Art
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post #1655 of 3028 Old 12-02-2017, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
The added brightness for you with a 16' wide screen from two 5000 projectors will enable you to change from 1.3 to 1.0 gain Snowmatte which will be BIG in [email protected]@@ You will see!

Certainly a consideration.


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post #1656 of 3028 Old 12-02-2017, 06:10 AM
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Anamorphic lens with a 5000

A question for 5000 owners
Do you use an anamorphic lens with the 5000 ?
If you don’t now but used anamorphic lens with maybe a 1080p pj you had prior to a 4K 5000 what made you decide that there was not the need for anamorphic at 4K ?

I have not used anamorphic with my prior pjs but am contemplating getting one with the 4K 885
I have a smaller 100 inch wide screen so don’t need 5000 Lumens of light hence the 885
I have heard anecdotally that a fair number of 1080p pj owners when they switched to 4K dropped anamorphic from their setups since the newer pjs had so much more light that the increased light output benefit with anamorphic was not as important with the newer 4K projectors.
Any feedback much appreciated thank you
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post #1657 of 3028 Old 12-02-2017, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sceptre-lcd View Post
A question for 5000 owners
Do you use an anamorphic lens with the 5000 ?
If you don’t now but used anamorphic lens with maybe a 1080p pj you had prior to a 4K 5000 what made you decide that there was not the need for anamorphic at 4K ?

I have not used anamorphic with my prior pjs but am contemplating getting one with the 4K 885
I have a smaller 100 inch wide screen so don’t need 5000 Lumens of light hence the 885
I have heard anecdotally that a fair number of 1080p pj owners when they switched to 4K dropped anamorphic from their setups since the newer pjs had so much more light that the increased light output benefit with anamorphic was not as important with the newer 4K projectors.
Any feedback much appreciated thank you

You are correct on pretty much all points there !


I had the ISCO IIIL on a Cineslide for my previous two 1080p DLP projectors. I found that without it the image appeared significantly more coarse with pixel structure visibility being an issue in my front row, and still visible to a lessor degree further back in the theater; the lens allowed one to use the whole panel ameliorating this issue significantly.


With the 5000 one has to be three feet from the screen to see pixels. Additionally, I observed that with the lens it appeared to soften and distort the image with the 5000 enough to make it quite noticeable and also appeared to negatively impact ANSI contrast.


DLP has more ANSI contrast than LCoS or SXRD so the ISCO was a win win with the 1080 DLPs but was actually a detriment to picture quality with the Sony.
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post #1658 of 3028 Old 12-02-2017, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
Chris,
Thanks for posting pictures of the slightly offset 5000 in your one theater. I don't recall anything as to why this was required although but I'm certainly waiting with my usual impatience to see the results of the testing.


I was looking and it does appear that over /under would be possible in my room but the margin is scary. The issues is the heads in the front row sitting up if the person were taller.


Art
Over under certainly would be better as the 5000's are actually designed to be stacked that way, they fit together perfectly.
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The Official 5000ES 4K Laser Sony Owner's Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn
Chris,
Thanks for posting pictures of the slightly offset 5000 in your one theater. I don't recall anything as to why this was required although but I'm certainly waiting with my usual impatience to see the results of the testing.


I was looking and it does appear that over /under would be possible in my room but the margin is scary. The issues is the heads in the front row sitting up if the person were taller.


Art


So there is a wall that intersects the dead center of the rear wall of my theater. This wall separates a laundry room and a half bath.

Currently the existing projector is just off the center line so that it backs into the laundry room.

If I add the second unit it will go on the other side and will be recessed into the half bath. This will make both units almost perfectly equal off the center line.

I spoke with Sony engineers and they told me they can be stacked side by side just as they can be stacked over/under. They also said because of the lens being centered, and because there is the same amount of lens shift in all directions, that I can set one unit upright and turn the other unit upside down. This will allow the connections to be on the outside of both units and would allow the two units to basically touch, which will keep the lenses as close together as possible.

Looking forward to getting started!



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post #1660 of 3028 Old 12-02-2017, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
Getting ready for Ken Whitcomb to be here tomorrow to setup a 5000ES stack.

While Ken has successfully completed a vertical stack (one unit on top of the other), my room and Art’s room would work better with two units side by side. This will put the lenses further apart, so before we start cutting additional holes in walls, we want to make sure this is a workable solution.

My room has a 17’ wide Vistascope and Art’s room has a 16’ wide Vistascope.

While I get plenty of brightness for SDR on my 17’ wide screen, I certainly could use more output for HDR.

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Nice room. What are your room dimensions?

Stacked 5000s... wow. Potentially the new trend. I've got another 10 months before I purchase... so much going [email protected]

Great to watch the fun here... looks like potentially another trip to Art's!!!

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #1661 of 3028 Old 12-02-2017, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
So there is a wall that intersects the dead center of the rear wall of my theater. This wall separates a laundry room and a half bath.

Currently the existing projector is just off the center line so that it backs into the laundry room.

If I add the second unit it will go on the other side and will be recessed into the half bath. This will make both units almost perfectly equal off the center line.

I spoke with Sony engineers and they told me they can be stacked side by side just as they can be stacked over/under. They also said because of the lens being centered, and because there is the same amount of lens shift in all directions, that I can set one unit upright and turn the other unit upside down. This will allow the connections to be on the outside of both units and would allow the two units to basically touch, which will keep the lenses as close together as possible.

Looking forward to getting started!



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I am sure your stacked projectors will really SING!!!!
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post #1662 of 3028 Old 12-02-2017, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland
Nice room. What are your room dimensions?



Stacked 5000s... wow. Potentially the new trend. I've got another 10 months before I purchase... so much going [email protected]



Great to watch the fun here... looks like potentially another trip to Art's!!!


Hey Jeff,

The theater with the 17’ wide Vistascope screen is 20’ wide x 25’ deep x 9’ ceiling height

The theater with the 14’ wide 2.0 4-way masking screen is 16’ wide x 24’ deep x 13’ ceiling height.




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post #1663 of 3028 Old 12-02-2017, 11:32 AM
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Hey Jeff,

The theater with the 17’ wide Vistascope screen is 20’ wide x 25’ deep x 9’ ceiling height

The theater with the 14’ wide 2.0 4-way masking screen is 16’ wide x 24’ deep x 13’ ceiling height.




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Thanks.

Curious, with the much taller ceilings in the one theater, do you have a preference in sound? Better, more ambient effects in one room over the other?

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #1664 of 3028 Old 12-02-2017, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sceptre-lcd View Post
A question for 5000 owners
Do you use an anamorphic lens with the 5000 ?
If you don?t now but used anamorphic lens with maybe a 1080p pj you had prior to a 4K 5000 what made you decide that there was not the need for anamorphic at 4K ?

I have not used anamorphic with my prior pjs but am contemplating getting one with the 4K 885
I have a smaller 100 inch wide screen so don?t need 5000 Lumens of light hence the 885
I have heard anecdotally that a fair number of 1080p pj owners when they switched to 4K dropped anamorphic from their setups since the newer pjs had so much more light that the increased light output benefit with anamorphic was not as important with the newer 4K projectors.
Any feedback much appreciated thank you
I had Sim2 LUmis HOST and was using ISCOiiiL lens with it and now switched to Sony5000 with 16 ft wide AT 2.37 screen . Now I am using ISCO 1.25x lens . I almost never watch anything in my theater without the lens in place . I prefer the wider more immersive picture with higher pixel density . I have looked at the focus screen standing 12 inches from the screen and see no difference in the picture quality or sharpness with and without the lens . Just my 2c
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post #1665 of 3028 Old 12-03-2017, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mani View Post
I had Sim2 LUmis HOST and was using ISCOiiiL lens with it and now switched to Sony5000 with 16 ft wide AT 2.37 screen . Now I am using ISCO 1.25x lens . I almost never watch anything in my theater without the lens in place . I prefer the wider more immersive picture with higher pixel density . I have looked at the focus screen standing 12 inches from the screen and see no difference in the picture quality or sharpness with and without the lens . Just my 2c

As I said previously , if I had had the ISCO 1.25 instead of the IIIL I might have had a reason to keep it in the system. With the stacking a possibility the desire for me waned even more.


Art
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post #1666 of 3028 Old 12-03-2017, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mani View Post
I had Sim2 LUmis HOST and was using ISCOiiiL lens with it and now switched to Sony5000 with 16 ft wide AT 2.37 screen . Now I am using ISCO 1.25x lens . I almost never watch anything in my theater without the lens in place . I prefer the wider more immersive picture with higher pixel density . I have looked at the focus screen standing 12 inches from the screen and see no difference in the picture quality or sharpness with and without the lens . Just my 2c

As I said previously , if I had had the ISCO 1.25 instead of the IIIL I might have had a reason to keep it in the system. With the stacking a possibility the desire for me waned even more.



Art


Please post the pictures of your stack and also your impressions on convergence and sharpness . That?s something I may consider down the road for HDR and 3D
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post #1667 of 3028 Old 12-03-2017, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
As I said previously , if I had had the ISCO 1.25 instead of the IIIL I might have had a reason to keep it in the system. With the stacking a possibility the desire for me waned even more.


Art
Thank you Art and Mani
So essentially 2 votes for a setup that has a 1.25x anamorphic lens (rather than a 1.33x) - mani already has it and Art (would if he were not looking at stacking) would consider putting in his setup ?
any other views from other owners ?
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post #1668 of 3028 Old 12-03-2017, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sceptre-lcd View Post
Thank you Art and Mani
So essentially 2 votes for a setup that has a 1.25x anamorphic lens (rather than a 1.33x) - mani already has it and Art (would if he were not looking at stacking) would consider putting in his setup ?
any other views from other owners ?

I didn't quite say that.. I said I might have considered it ( which I definitely would not have with the IIIL). The better question is if you decide to stack would you definitely invest in a second ISCO 1.25 since you would need it ? I personally don't see that happening. Much different than if I already owned it .


Art

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post #1669 of 3028 Old 12-03-2017, 11:10 AM
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Do those lenses cut down on contrast or implant other video parameters?

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #1670 of 3028 Old 12-03-2017, 11:15 AM
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Do those lenses cut down on contrast or implant other video parameters?

The IIIL does negatively impact ANSI IMO. This is why I think I was so happy with it with my two DLPs since ANSI was a strong suit; not so with SXRD.


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post #1671 of 3028 Old 12-03-2017, 11:37 AM
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Please post the pictures of your stack and also your impressions on convergence and sharpness . That?s something I may consider down the road for HDR and 3D

Still not absolutely sure I'm going to do it but I will if I do.


Art
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I used an ISCO III lens for years with multiple DPI Titan projectors . It served its purpose which was to increase light output and to decrease screen door from 1080p resolution projectors. But I was so happy to get rid of them when I moved to the Barco 4K DCI units and then on to the Sony 5000ES. I can’t stand the bow/pincushion effect the A-lens caused.

I certainly haven’t missed an A-lens in my setup even with such a large screen. With my 5000ES I have been using lens memory, but if this stack works out, I will just use the lumagen for scaling. The Sony lens memory works fairly well, but it’s not near as good as it was on my Barco DCI units.



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post #1673 of 3028 Old 12-03-2017, 05:08 PM
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Just curious, but I've seen several mentions of the SnoMatte/ST 100 being superior to the ST 130 in this thread. What is behind that? I had always heard the ST 130 was essentially the best screen one could get in a light controlled room. Thanks for thoughts.

Currently in the design phase and the designer is suggesting ST 130 paired with the 5000 and a lens, which now I'm also seeing may not be ideal with the 5000.
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Just curious, but I've seen several mentions of the SnoMatte/ST 100 being superior to the ST 130 in this thread. What is behind that? I had always heard the ST 130 was essentially the best screen one could get in a light controlled room. Thanks for thoughts.

Currently in the design phase and the designer is suggesting ST 130 paired with the 5000 and a lens, which now I'm also seeing may not be ideal with the 5000.
I personally still prefer the ST130 myself, but I see why some people prefer the ST100. I'm not bothered by the slight surface sheen, and always think the ST100 looks a bit " dull " in comparison. But others prefer no sheen or " sparkle " at all, in which case the ST100 ( if your room is optomized for it ) is a better choice.

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ST130 always had a bit of a grainy appearance to me. Switching to the ST100 became IMO like looking out the window. For me, the ST100 was the biggest bang for the buck change in my HT for quite some time. View both full screen in similar rooms to yours before deciding if at all possible.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcramer View Post
Just curious, but I've seen several mentions of the SnoMatte/ST 100 being superior to the ST 130 in this thread. What is behind that? I had always heard the ST 130 was essentially the best screen one could get in a light controlled room. Thanks for thoughts.

Currently in the design phase and the designer is suggesting ST 130 paired with the 5000 and a lens, which now I'm also seeing may not be ideal with the 5000.

Light at the prime viewing position vs. texture and edge falloff that's all there is to it. You have to decide where your priorities are.


Art
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post #1677 of 3028 Old 12-03-2017, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcramer View Post
Just curious, but I've seen several mentions of the SnoMatte/ST 100 being superior to the ST 130 in this thread. What is behind that? I had always heard the ST 130 was essentially the best screen one could get in a light controlled room. Thanks for thoughts.

Currently in the design phase and the designer is suggesting ST 130 paired with the 5000 and a lens, which now I'm also seeing may not be ideal with the 5000.

Studiotek 100 is an almost perfect Lambertian diffuser, meaning that it has a uniform reflecting characteristic regardless of viewing angle. It is also one of only a few uncoated screen fabrics available. With high pixel-density projection, the pixels are small enough where they interact with the screen coating, resulting in the perception of added video noise in the picture. Laser light engines exacerbate this effect.


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post #1678 of 3028 Old 12-04-2017, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by D6500Ken View Post
Studiotek 100 is an almost perfect Lambertian diffuser, meaning that it has a uniform reflecting characteristic regardless of viewing angle. It is also one of only a few uncoated screen fabrics available. With high pixel-density projection, the pixels are small enough where they interact with the screen coating, resulting in the perception of added video noise in the picture. Laser light engines exacerbate this effect.


Ken Whitcomb
I also noticed and posted on this laser engine effect when I compared my 1100 to the laser driven 5000 on my ST130. The 1100 looked great on the ST130, but something wasn’t quite right with the 5000. That effect, though subtle, is very real! I saw a shimmering/sheen, which had the appearance of added noise and gave the feel of less clarity. Curious if the much lower ANSI lumens laser driven 885 will have this effect on an ST130, which will likely be the screen of choice for this new Sony projector. As you noted, the effect went away with the ST100, and I was left with a very real, crisp, clear, unmanipulated film like image. The ST100 is going to be a permanent fixture in my theater.
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Last edited by G-Rex; 12-04-2017 at 05:22 AM.
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post #1679 of 3028 Old 12-04-2017, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
I also noticed and posted on this laser engine effect when I compared my 1100 to the laser driven 5000 on my ST130. The 1100 looked great on the ST130, but something wasn’t quite right with the 5000. That effect, though subtle, is very real! I saw a shimmering/sheen, which had the appearance of added noise and gave the feel of less clarity. Curious if the much lower ANSI lumens laser driven 885 will have this effect on an ST130, which will likely be the screen of choice for this new Sony projector. As you noted, the effect went away with the ST100, and I was left with a very real, crisp, clear, unmanipulated film like image. The ST100 is going to be a permanent fixture in my theater.
Me, too!!! I used my previous ST130 screen for like 7 weeks before my new Snowmatte screen was installed. What a difference with the 5000!

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post #1680 of 3028 Old 12-04-2017, 12:02 PM
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Side by side stack test 14' wide screen balls out 107.2fL


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