The Official 5000ES 4K Laser Sony Owner's Thread - Page 58 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 1283Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1711 of 3028 Old 12-06-2017, 12:09 PM
Senior Member
 
RS3771's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 435
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 304 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Based on reading some of the earlier posts, is CIA (as opposed to CIH) setup with stacking challenging or impossible or possible if using Lumagen?
RS3771 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1712 of 3028 Old 12-06-2017, 12:33 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Art Sonneborn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Battle Creek,MI USA
Posts: 24,243
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1266 Post(s)
Liked: 1695
Quote:
Originally Posted by RS3771 View Post
Based on reading some of the earlier posts, is CIA (as opposed to CIH) setup with stacking challenging or impossible or possible if using Lumagen?

Using lens memories for stacking isn't precise enough so that technique is probably out but using the Lumagen and zooming can work and has advantages over the way I'm doing CIH without an anamorphic lens in that there is less resolution loss. After looking at my ISCOIIIL in the chain with one 5000 I felt that the image was superior without it.Thus zooming and CIH was my choice and works with stacking as well.


Art
appelz and ccool96 like this.
Art Sonneborn is offline  
post #1713 of 3028 Old 12-06-2017, 12:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ccool96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Panama City, FL
Posts: 1,514
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 790 Post(s)
Liked: 1129
The Official 5000ES 4K Laser Sony Owner's Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RS3771;
Based on reading some of the earlier posts, is CIA (as opposed to CIH) setup with stacking challenging or impossible or possible if using Lumagen?


After talking extensive with Jim Peterson and Ken Whitcomb, a 2.0 aspect screen should actually be more ideal than a 2.4 screen.

With a Vistascope screen you have to permanently limit the 16:9 image to be within the height of the scope image.

With a 2.0 screen you can use almost the full height and width of the chip since it’s a 1.9 chip. Bottom line is you are throwing away less light and resolution with a 2.0 screen.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Last edited by ccool96; 12-06-2017 at 01:45 PM.
ccool96 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1714 of 3028 Old 12-06-2017, 01:44 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
thebland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Detroit, Michigan USA
Posts: 26,353
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2244 Post(s)
Liked: 1462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
No you are right 19'6" is maxed out and requires the screen from the UK with more narrow frame and motor mechanism. I had hoped no one would come with a tape.


Art

I could see that in your splendid room!

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
thebland is online now  
post #1715 of 3028 Old 12-07-2017, 11:00 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Hello Everyone,
I'm hoping to get some insight from all of the experienced owners on the site. I recently purchased a 5000ES for my home. This is my second 5000ES as I currently have one of these installed at the office which is used for proofing design work. That office unit is running with settings out of the box, projected onto a 16 x 9 screen. Too many variables which are hard to control such as lighting, colors and finish of the room which I know hinder the projector displaying the best possible image. Nonetheless animation sequences that we display, perspectives, renderings, cad drawings all look outstanding.

The 5000ES I will be installing at home will be going into my home office. I currently have a 675ES set up in that room projected onto a 16:9 116" x 65" screen. This unit gets multiple uses, 65-70% work related, 10% news/ sporting events/ cartoons (for my 3yr old) and 20% for actual movie watching . The sources I am feeding it are Workstation Direct, Strato, Oppo 103, Directv, Roku, Apple TV through an Anthem AVM 60. Much of the time when the projector is turned on with things such as DirectTv/ Roku etc its with ambient light at a low level since its while I am working there is light coming off of the monitors. Only when something worthwhile that I download on the Strato or I play on the Oppo do all the lights get turned off including the workstation and monitors and I actually sit down to watch.

I have attached a couple images with set up information on the screen, one has vertical masking the other horizontal masking. My questions are:

Image 1

1) Is this screen size small enough to be able to do HDR adequately.

2) Would I be better off using a lumagen radiance pro instead of the lens zoom on the Sony.


Image 2

1) Would this screen size allow me to do HDR adequately.

2) Is there an advantage to using more of the chip for 16 x 9 and just the center for 2.35:1? as opposed to the first set up.

Image 3

same questions as 2


The Da-Lite screen material is based on what we have been using for the last 10 years, and are currently using with the 5000ES in the office. The Home Office presently has that same material on the 116 x 65 screen, which is represented in the Home Office.png red outline.

MY intention is to have the projector calibrated but I would like to have everything in place beforehand.

Thanks for the help in advance, and the patience.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Home Office.png
Views:	110
Size:	958.4 KB
ID:	2327108   Click image for larger version

Name:	Home Office Option 2.png
Views:	93
Size:	928.4 KB
ID:	2327128   Click image for larger version

Name:	Home Office Option 3.png
Views:	82
Size:	943.8 KB
ID:	2327130  
IDW2 is offline  
post #1716 of 3028 Old 12-07-2017, 11:07 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Art Sonneborn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Battle Creek,MI USA
Posts: 24,243
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1266 Post(s)
Liked: 1695
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
I could see that in your splendid room!


Chris and I both have a fair amount of construction necessary to place the 5000 stacks in our theaters. We are having our office Christmas party at the house; Angela asked that I wait till after that to start due to keeping the house nice.


So fun begins after the 15th.


Art
Art Sonneborn is offline  
post #1717 of 3028 Old 12-07-2017, 11:13 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Art Sonneborn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Battle Creek,MI USA
Posts: 24,243
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1266 Post(s)
Liked: 1695
Quote:
Originally Posted by IDW2 View Post
Hello Everyone,
I'm hoping to get some insight from all of the experienced owners on the site. I recently purchased a 5000ES for my home. This is my second 5000ES as I currently have one of these installed at the office which is used for proofing design work. That office unit is running with settings out of the box, projected onto a 16 x 9 screen. Too many variables which are hard to control such as lighting, colors and finish of the room which I know hinder the projector displaying the best possible image. Nonetheless animation sequences that we display, perspectives, renderings, cad drawings all look outstanding.

The 5000ES I will be installing at home will be going into my home office. I currently have a 675ES set up in that room projected onto a 16:9 116" x 65" screen. This unit gets multiple uses, 65-70% work related, 10% news/ sporting events/ cartoons (for my 3yr old) and 20% for actual movie watching . The sources I am feeding it are Workstation Direct, Strato, Oppo 103, Directv, Roku, Apple TV through an Anthem AVM 60. Much of the time when the projector is turned on with things such as DirectTv/ Roku etc its with ambient light at a low level since its while I am working there is light coming off of the monitors. Only when something worthwhile that I download on the Strato or I play on the Oppo do all the lights get turned off including the workstation and monitors and I actually sit down to watch.

I have attached a couple images with set up information on the screen, one has vertical masking the other horizontal masking. My questions are:

Image 1

1) Is this screen size small enough to be able to do HDR adequately.

2) Would I be better off using a lumagen radiance pro instead of the lens zoom on the Sony.


Image 2

1) Would this screen size allow me to do HDR adequately.

2) Is there an advantage to using more of the chip for 16 x 9 and just the center for 2.35:1? as opposed to the first set up.

Image 3

same questions as 2


The Da-Lite screen material is based on what we have been using for the last 10 years, and are currently using with the 5000ES in the office. The Home Office presently has that same material on the 116 x 65 screen, which is represented in the Home Office.png red outline.

MY intention is to have the projector calibrated but I would like to have everything in place beforehand.

Thanks for the help in advance, and the patience.

I don't know the gain on the Da Lite screen but that is a 10' wide screen with a 5000 lumen projector ! Assuming 1.0 than that's over 90fL so I'd say you'd get a nice HDR presentation.
Art Sonneborn is offline  
post #1718 of 3028 Old 12-07-2017, 11:19 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Steve Bruzonsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Posts: 20,063
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1588 Post(s)
Liked: 786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
Chris and I both have a fair amount of construction necessary to place the 5000 stacks in our theaters. We are having our office Christmas party at the house; Angela asked that I wait till after that to start due to keeping the house nice.


So fun begins after the 15th.


Art
I win my BET! I knew no way you would not [email protected]@ (What did I win? Hot Air!)

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!
Steve Bruzonsky is online now  
post #1719 of 3028 Old 12-07-2017, 12:49 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
I would check the (HDR Contrast) slider on the 5000ES. The normal contrast slider for SDR just says contrast, but when you are playing HDR it changes to “HDR Contrast”

HDR Contrast defaults to 50. I would move that up to 70-80. That will bring up the average picture brightness level significantly.

And the Panasonic also has a dynamic contrast slider. Some people will adjust it up around +4.

There is no “correct” setting at this point. You just have to decide how much of the “specular highlights” to trade off for increased APL.
Thanks Chris, that solved the issue as I was under the false assumption the projector had dynamic tone mapping. I've never seen such a large variance in picture quality based on the film compared to any other projector I've owned. For example, Alien Covenant needs the slider around 40 to not massively clip highlights/blow out faces but then that makes the picture quite dim and lacking contrast. I'll have to play around with the settings depending on the film and what it's mastered at.

My first impressions were pretty 'meh' and I didn't understand the hype at all until I played Ghost in the Shell & The Revenant, stunning
Starkrace is offline  
post #1720 of 3028 Old 12-07-2017, 01:09 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
I don't know the gain on the Da Lite screen but that is a 10' wide screen with a 5000 lumen projector ! Assuming 1.0 than that's over 90fL so I'd say you'd get a nice HDR presentation.
Thanks for the response Art. What about on the larger 10' 9" (16x9) screen, and on the 12' 9" (scope) screen what would the Fl be for that? And would it be advisable to use a Lumagen Radiance Pro if I go with a scope screen?

Thanks again for the help.
IDW2 is offline  
post #1721 of 3028 Old 12-07-2017, 03:30 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Art Sonneborn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Battle Creek,MI USA
Posts: 24,243
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1266 Post(s)
Liked: 1695
Quote:
Originally Posted by IDW2 View Post
Thanks for the response Art. What about on the larger 10' 9" (16x9) screen, and on the 12' 9" (scope) screen what would the Fl be for that? And would it be advisable to use a Lumagen Radiance Pro if I go with a scope screen?

Thanks again for the help.



I'm using a little more conservative number for after calibration of 4850 lumens which seems to be closer to the number you hear giving 75fL for the 10'9" and 56 fL for the larger screen.


Art

Last edited by Art Sonneborn; 12-07-2017 at 03:36 PM.
Art Sonneborn is offline  
post #1722 of 3028 Old 12-07-2017, 07:09 PM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
Ash Sharma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: TX
Posts: 2,133
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1045 Post(s)
Liked: 717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
I'm using a little more conservative number for after calibration of 4850 lumens which seems to be closer to the number you hear giving 75fL for the 10'9" and 56 fL for the larger screen.


Art
Art - very curious how 3D will look in dual stack - I am sure amazing...
Ash Sharma is online now  
post #1723 of 3028 Old 12-08-2017, 12:37 AM
Advanced Member
 
JohnHWman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: France
Posts: 955
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starkrace View Post
Thanks Chris, that solved the issue as I was under the false assumption the projector had dynamic tone mapping. I've never seen such a large variance in picture quality based on the film compared to any other projector I've owned. For example, Alien Covenant needs the slider around 40 to not massively clip highlights/blow out faces but then that makes the picture quite dim and lacking contrast. I'll have to play around with the settings depending on the film and what it's mastered at.
Hi,
FYI, the peak nits luminance UHD BR mastered value can be provided to the projector within the HDR metadata, so in theory: the projecteur is able to automatically adapt its "HDR contrast" value for the played UHD disc. It's just a matter of firmware update

Ending, in current 4.502/4.506 fw rev., keep in mind that the LASER power value setting is not stored within the HDR playback Image Preset of the PJ used for HDR movies playback. You need to re-enter the correct setting manually when the PJ switch from SDR to HDR10 or HLG mode. This is a known FW bug by Sony People...

John

Home theater enthusiast for over 20 years !
My dedicated HT room !
JohnHWman is offline  
post #1724 of 3028 Old 12-08-2017, 03:44 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
D6500Ken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 764
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
Art - very curious how 3D will look in dual stack - I am sure amazing...
This is a direct quote from the first 5000 stack owner in Chicago:

“If everyone had this, 3D would be the most popular format In the world!”

Needless to say, he is a huge 3D fan.


Ken Whitcomb

Calibrations Inc
Indianapolis, IN

ISF, THX, PVA
Now offering LightSpace CMS 3D LUT calibration
D6500Ken is offline  
post #1725 of 3028 Old 12-08-2017, 05:40 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
D6500Ken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 764
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHWman View Post
...keep in mind that the LASER power value setting is not stored within the HDR playback Image Preset of the PJ used for HDR movies playback. You need to re-enter the correct setting manually when the PJ switch from SDR to HDR10 or HLG mode. This is a known FW bug by Sony People.
I have been after my Sony Platinum-level dealers to communicate directly with their Sony contacts regarding this issue. I don’t see why this can’t be easily resolved in a few lines of code, since it already works this way with 3D.

Perhaps if all 5000 owners bombarded them with emails the message would finally get through.


Ken Whitcomb

Calibrations Inc
Indianapolis, IN

ISF, THX, PVA
Now offering LightSpace CMS 3D LUT calibration
D6500Ken is offline  
post #1726 of 3028 Old 12-08-2017, 06:18 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
Ash Sharma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: TX
Posts: 2,133
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1045 Post(s)
Liked: 717
Quote:
Originally Posted by D6500Ken View Post
This is a direct quote from the first 5000 stack owner in Chicago:

“If everyone had this, 3D would be the most popular format In the world!”

Needless to say, he is a huge 3D fan.


Ken Whitcomb
OK - Now I am Jealous :-( I Love 3D and am spoilt by my OLED 3D
No way to install stacked projectors in my theater - I guess I will wait for the 10,000 Lumens Sony CIRCA 2022 - if I can still see as well as I do today and I am alive.

Ken it is because of you I chose the Snomatte - what great advice...
D6500Ken likes this.
Ash Sharma is online now  
post #1727 of 3028 Old 12-08-2017, 07:08 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Steve Bruzonsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Posts: 20,063
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1588 Post(s)
Liked: 786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
OK - Now I am Jealous :-( I Love 3D and am spoilt by my OLED 3D
No way to install stacked projectors in my theater - I guess I will wait for the 10,000 Lumens Sony CIRCA 2022 - if I can still see as well as I do today and I am alive.

Ken it is because of you I chose the Snomatte - what great advice...
Same here. 14' wide screen with Snomatte, Ken's advise, then bolstered by your (Ash's) [email protected]@@ HAPPY!

If we wanna still be alive circa 2022 then we need to QUIT watching stuff in our theaters with our VW5000 projectors and 14' wide Snomatte screens so much and get out in the real world off our butts! HA! (Its hard!)

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!
Steve Bruzonsky is online now  
post #1728 of 3028 Old 12-08-2017, 08:46 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Art Sonneborn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Battle Creek,MI USA
Posts: 24,243
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1266 Post(s)
Liked: 1695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
Art - very curious how 3D will look in dual stack - I am sure amazing...

Ash, I'm just not a 3D fan, nothing against those who are. My reason for stacking is to get HDR performance, and a little more SDR light. I know that particularly when watching material that is meant to portray say "a day at the beach" more light produces a more believable presentation. My HD5Kc projector would give 40fL with a new lamp and I loved it. I have about 30fL with my larger screen and it's very nice but I know I'd like something closer to that 40fL number for SDR.


As Chris had mentioned he has to start construction right away on his stack set up because, fortunately or unfortunately ,he's tasted what the stack can look like and has no desire to look at one projector any more.


Art
Art Sonneborn is offline  
post #1729 of 3028 Old 12-08-2017, 08:46 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ccool96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Panama City, FL
Posts: 1,514
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 790 Post(s)
Liked: 1129
The Official 5000ES 4K Laser Sony Owner's Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHWman;
Hi,

FYI, the peak nits luminance UHD BR mastered value can be provided to the projector within the HDR metadata, so in theory: the projecteur is able to automatically adapt its "HDR contrast" value for the played UHD disc. It's just a matter of firmware update



Ending, in current 4.502/4.506 fw rev., keep in mind that the LASER power value setting is not stored within the HDR playback Image Preset of the PJ used for HDR movies playback. You need to re-enter the correct setting manually when the PJ switch from SDR to HDR10 or HLG mode. This is a known FW bug by Sony People...



John


I got one of the first 5000ES projectors back in April 2016. No version of firmware has ever saved the Laser power level with HDR.

This makes no sense at all. Since the projector can trigger HDR mode and colorspace it should be very easy to do.

As Ken suggested, it does this with 3D. Heck I would be happy if it just had one level for SDR and one level for 3D/HDR.

But I totally agree this would be such a minor thing to add that would make switching between SDR and HDR sources that much more seamless.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
ccool96 is online now  
post #1730 of 3028 Old 12-08-2017, 09:10 AM
LJG
AVS Forum Special Member
 
LJG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Brookville, NY
Posts: 5,046
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 757 Post(s)
Liked: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHWman View Post
Hi,
FYI, the peak nits luminance UHD BR mastered value can be provided to the projector within the HDR metadata, so in theory: the projecteur is able to automatically adapt its "HDR contrast" value for the played UHD disc. It's just a matter of firmware update

Ending, in current 4.502/4.506 fw rev., keep in mind that the LASER power value setting is not stored within the HDR playback Image Preset of the PJ used for HDR movies playback. You need to re-enter the correct setting manually when the PJ switch from SDR to HDR10 or HLG mode. This is a known FW bug by Sony People...

John
This is already done with the Lumagen Pro
BrolicBeast likes this.
LJG is offline  
post #1731 of 3028 Old 12-08-2017, 02:11 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHWman View Post
Hi,
FYI, the peak nits luminance UHD BR mastered value can be provided to the projector within the HDR metadata, so in theory: the projecteur is able to automatically adapt its "HDR contrast" value for the played UHD disc. It's just a matter of firmware update
Thanks for info, I would be very happy to see this feature added. It's strange because all their TV's have it (both Oled & LCD)!
Starkrace is offline  
post #1732 of 3028 Old 12-08-2017, 02:19 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post
This is already done with the Lumagen Pro
Are you saying the lumagen pro does dynamic tone mapping?
Starkrace is offline  
post #1733 of 3028 Old 12-08-2017, 05:18 PM
LJG
AVS Forum Special Member
 
LJG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Brookville, NY
Posts: 5,046
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 757 Post(s)
Liked: 480
No, static tone mapping based on UHD metadata on disc
LJG is offline  
post #1734 of 3028 Old 12-08-2017, 05:23 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ccool96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Panama City, FL
Posts: 1,514
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 790 Post(s)
Liked: 1129
The Official 5000ES 4K Laser Sony Owner's Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starkrace;
Are you saying the lumagen pro does dynamic tone mapping?


From my understanding the lumagen is not currently able of “Dynamic Metadata” like HDR10+ it Dolby Vision.

But the Lumagen is capable of looking at the “Static metadata” of a specific disc and adjust the “Tone Mapping” based on the mastering nit level. So adjust to one setting automatically for 1000 nit disc, and adjust to another setting automatically for 4000 nit disc.

The reason the LED and OLED TVs do such a good job “tone mapping” is because it’s a fixed image size with a fixed brightness. The manufacturers know exactly how that device will preform regardless of install.

With a projector, everyone’s setup is different. So one person could have 50fL and another person could have 20fL. That’s why projectors really benefit from a lumagen and a professional calibration. That way the lumagen can be set to “map” to the displays best ability.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
D6500Ken and BrolicBeast like this.

Last edited by ccool96; 12-08-2017 at 05:36 PM.
ccool96 is online now  
post #1735 of 3028 Old 12-08-2017, 10:03 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Steve Bruzonsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Posts: 20,063
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1588 Post(s)
Liked: 786
Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post

With a projector, everyone’s setup is different. So one person could have 50fL and another person could have 20fL. That’s why projectors really benefit from a lumagen and a professional calibration. That way the lumagen can be set to “map” to the displays best ability.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Thanks for letting Ken finish with you for the time being, so he can calibrate my setup and then Mani's (both with VW5000 and Lumagen Radiance Pro) this upcoming week!!!
phara and ccool96 like this.

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!
Steve Bruzonsky is online now  
post #1736 of 3028 Old 12-09-2017, 01:08 AM
Advanced Member
 
JohnHWman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: France
Posts: 955
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
The reason the LED and OLED TVs do such a good job “tone mapping” is because it’s a fixed image size with a fixed brightness. The manufacturers know exactly how that device will preform regardless of install.
Yes, I agree.
Quote:
With a projector, everyone’s setup is different. So one person could have 50fL and another person could have 20fL.
Yes, agreed also but, like you have now in regular public Theaters, you may need to calibrate the 5000ES projector brightness with different levels according SDR or HDR playback (i.e.: 48nits for SDR in Rec709 and 100nits for HDR in Rec2020).

That's my need and I can't understand why Sony people didn't provide this ability yet They made it for 3D content playback, they must give us this different laser setting ability for SDR/HDR content playback (if you don't want to use different Laser settings for SDR and HDR, you keep same Laser power value on both Presets and voilà )

That's the same story for "HDR contrast" setting versus peak luminance mastering used in UHD discs playback : just give us the possibility to set differents HDR contrast" settings that we can ajust/set during calibration and store them in projector settings. Then, the PJ recall them automatically depending on the incoming metadata : simple, isn't it ?

I'm quite disapointed that such high-pricing (semi-professionnal) projector can't do such basics things that most UHD TV manufacturer's do

John

Home theater enthusiast for over 20 years !
My dedicated HT room !

Last edited by JohnHWman; 12-09-2017 at 01:13 AM.
JohnHWman is offline  
post #1737 of 3028 Old 12-09-2017, 05:14 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
Ash Sharma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: TX
Posts: 2,133
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1045 Post(s)
Liked: 717
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHWman View Post

I'm quite disapointed that such high-pricing (semi-professionnal) projector can't do such basics things that most UHD TV manufacturer's do

John
John,
If one runs SDR on HDMI 1 and HDR on HDMI 2 of the ES5000 - then would the 5000 retain laser settings?
Thats how I am running as I await my Trinnov HDMI upgrade and in my setup there is no Lumagen.
I noticed no change in Laser setting by the projector but I need to look more deeply into it once I get a chance probably two weeks from now.
Thanks.
Ash
Ash Sharma is online now  
post #1738 of 3028 Old 12-09-2017, 08:08 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ccool96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Panama City, FL
Posts: 1,514
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 790 Post(s)
Liked: 1129
The Official 5000ES 4K Laser Sony Owner's Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHWman;
Yes, I agree.

Yes, agreed also but, like you have now in regular public Theaters, you may need to calibrate the 5000ES projector brightness with different levels according SDR or HDR playback (i.e.: 48nits for SDR in Rec709 and 100nits for HDR in Rec2020).



That's my need and I can't understand why Sony people didn't provide this ability yet They made it for 3D content playback, they must give us this different laser setting ability for SDR/HDR content playback (if you don't want to use different Laser settings for SDR and HDR, you keep same Laser power value on both Presets and voilà )



That's the same story for "HDR contrast" setting versus peak luminance mastering used in UHD discs playback : just give us the possibility to set differents HDR contrast" settings that we can ajust/set during calibration and store them in projector settings. Then, the PJ recall them automatically depending on the incoming metadata : simple, isn't it ?



I'm quite disapointed that such high-pricing (semi-professionnal) projector can't do such basics things that most UHD TV manufacturer's do



John

I completely agree with you about being able to save the Laser Output Power separately for SDR or HDR.

They already do this for 2D and 3D. It couldn’t be hard to allow the Laser power to remember its setting for HDR separately.

This is something most 5000 owner’s have asked for. Maybe we all need to start requesting this feature from Sony again. They seem to listen when there is a lot of noise.

The “HDR Contrast” adjustment is less bothersome to me because my Lumagen can handle that automatically.

The HD Fury Vertex could be a possible solution. They have built it in macros to automatically trigger different user presets, gamma adjustments, etc on the JVC projectors based on the incoming signal. Would be cool to get the same ability for Sony.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Last edited by ccool96; 12-09-2017 at 12:57 PM.
ccool96 is online now  
post #1739 of 3028 Old 12-09-2017, 09:46 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
D6500Ken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 764
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
If one runs SDR on HDMI 1 and HDR on HDMI 2 of the ES5000 - then would the 5000 retain laser settings?
That may be correct. I'll confirm on Tuesday.


Ken Whitcomb

Calibrations Inc
Indianapolis, IN

ISF, THX, PVA
Now offering LightSpace CMS 3D LUT calibration
D6500Ken is offline  
post #1740 of 3028 Old 12-09-2017, 02:04 PM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
D6500Ken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 764
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 120
A little elf told me that someone is getting a stack for Christmas!


Ken Whitcomb

Calibrations Inc
Indianapolis, IN

ISF, THX, PVA
Now offering LightSpace CMS 3D LUT calibration
D6500Ken is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off