The Official 5000ES 4K Laser Sony Owner's Thread - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 3028 Old 12-26-2016, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Cute babies. Congrats!!... Maybe it's my age but having twins seems so daunting. You da man!!. As I have 2 in college and one left at home, it's hard to imagine. All the best!!
Appreciate it thanks. Yes, being our first babies I guess we don't really know what it's like to have just one (at a time). We have been trying to keep them on the same schedule and so far so good. One day I will teach one or both to make the popcorn.


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post #152 of 3028 Old 12-27-2016, 05:22 AM
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LJG, I might have missed your comment, but at approx. what hour level did you first notice the issue (s)? (asking because I don't remember your earlier comments mentioning the problem)

I've not seen anything like that in mine 5000, nor in any of the others I've seen.



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post #153 of 3028 Old 12-27-2016, 05:29 AM
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Joerod, congrats my friend! You'll be struggling in the coming months to justify watching even a single movie with those twins. I had my twins 6 years ago (when I was 57), and don't remember watching a single movie for nearly 3 months!! (but it's a blessing for sure!)

Best!

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post #154 of 3028 Old 12-27-2016, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by JlgLaw View Post
LJG, I might have missed your comment, but at approx. what hour level did you first notice the issue (s)? (asking because I don't remember your earlier comments mentioning the problem)

I've not seen anything like that in mine 5000, nor in any of the others I've seen.



Jim
I noticed what appeared to be video noise, and upon further inspection up close to the screen I noticed these issues which at first was thought to be the radiance pro but upon further trouble shooting, the issues can/do appear with the Radiance removed from chain. I can't say exactly when the issue began but I am pretty sure it was from the start.

I have about 900 hours on the unit.
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post #155 of 3028 Old 12-27-2016, 08:35 AM
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Thanks Lon, I'm passing that info on to someone that can investigate further. (Just fyi, I also have the Rad. Pro in the chain without any issues. My setup is as follows: for 4K discs: Oppo 203, or Panny UHD, > Rad. Pro using 1 meter Ethereal MHX cable > 10 meter MHX cable > HDM-GA1 gigabit accelerator > 1 meter MHX > 5000. Same chain for 4K downloads using K's Strato, and all BR/DVD from K's 3U Servers. No issues at all with any video content, but I also only have about 60 hours on the 5000, so I'll be watching for changes.)




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post #156 of 3028 Old 12-27-2016, 09:13 AM
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Thanks Jim. What I will probably do next month after the Radiance Pro tone mapping is complete is have Ken Whitcombb come and calibrate with 3D Lut, and shaping Lut for HDR and HDR to SDR conversion.

I'll show Ken what I am seeing and the he can evaluate my 5000ES compared to all the 5000ES he has calibrated.

That is my plan, I have not spoken to Ken about his yet, but would love to hear what your contact has to say in any event.
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post #157 of 3028 Old 12-27-2016, 01:50 PM
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Sure thing, and Ken will likely be back at my place at some point after the tone mapping is released (I need to wait for his neck of the woods to get a little colder, that's the draw to my FL home!). He just finished working on my initial setup with the 5000 a couple weeks ago.


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post #158 of 3028 Old 12-30-2016, 09:41 PM - Thread Starter
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UFC Ronda Rousey fight in 4K tonight!!! Beautiful on the 5000ES!!! DIRECTV scores again...
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post #159 of 3028 Old 01-02-2017, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post
I noticed what appeared to be video noise, and upon further inspection up close to the screen I noticed these issues which at first was thought to be the radiance pro but upon further trouble shooting, the issues can/do appear with the Radiance removed from chain. I can't say exactly when the issue began but I am pretty sure it was from the start.

I have about 900 hours on the unit.
I seem to be seeing video noise with almost every disc I pop in - for example, the Magnificent Seven 4K disc looked pretty pathetic on the 5000ES from the Panny - so, I changed it to blu ray - and even that didn't look good. Full of grainy video noise. Jason Bourne 4K didn't look good either - full of grainy video noise. Now, when I played Sully 4K disc, it appeared flawless!! Mechanic Resurrection was pretty good too - not sure why this inconsistency - is this content issue or a PJ issue - I'm bypassing the Radiance Pro at the moment.
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post #160 of 3028 Old 01-02-2017, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by RS3771 View Post
I seem to be seeing video noise with almost every disc I pop in -
Is there video noise with other sources - say in 1080p from DVR?
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post #161 of 3028 Old 01-02-2017, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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If it was the projector wouldn't every disc or source be full of noise and there not be a flawless type disc? We have her Aunt coming to stay a few days at the end of the week so I plan to spend a lot of time "down there" soon.


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post #162 of 3028 Old 01-02-2017, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by RS3771 View Post
I seem to be seeing video noise with almost every disc I pop in - for example, the Magnificent Seven 4K disc looked pretty pathetic on the 5000ES from the Panny - so, I changed it to blu ray - and even that didn't look good. Full of grainy video noise. Jason Bourne 4K didn't look good either - full of grainy video noise. Now, when I played Sully 4K disc, it appeared flawless!! Mechanic Resurrection was pretty good too - not sure why this inconsistency - is this content issue or a PJ issue - I'm bypassing the Radiance Pro at the moment.

Is it possible it's just the difference from movies shot of film vs movies shot digitally ? Digital is usually very clean, film will show grain, it is intentional. Some producers even add grain digitally or enhance grain already there for a desired effect. On my RS600 digital movies are clean for the most part film somehow sets up a digital mosquito like noise in the background . It's not the grain which I can see separately, this is something related to e-shift and the processor . Sony's processing was always aggressive in removing film grain, maybe the 5000 doesn't process this away as earlier machines did . I'm personally not a fan of grain, but many purists see this as a preservation of an art form. 70% of movies made now are digital and that trend is increasing. My thought is to add a grain-o-meter dial/slider to our projectors and dial in all the grain one would want. Leave the clean digital picture to the unholy , unpurists and let the projector do the magic it was intended to do.

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post #163 of 3028 Old 01-02-2017, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post
If it was the projector wouldn't every disc or source be full of noise and there not be a flawless type disc? We have her Aunt coming to stay a few days at the end of the week so I plan to spend a lot of time "down there" soon.

I agree - but get confused when other people report the same movies I see as having a lot of noise/grain - as playing perfectly fine. For example, on bluray.com site, the reviewer raves about the PQ of the Jason Bourne 4K disc while a user review says it has way too much noise/grain and I experienced the same thing. Anyway, I'll have my PJ calibrated by the end of this month along with pulling the Radiance Pro back in the loop - and see where that takes it...

On another note, I am very pleased with the 3D performance - I'm getting abundant brightness that was badly lacking in the 1100ES for a 14-ft wide image.
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post #164 of 3028 Old 01-03-2017, 06:49 AM
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Exactly, what is especially bothersome to me in both 1080P and 4k UHD blurays is the appearance of film grain as Mosquito video noise, up close to the screen it appears not as grain but as mosquito video noise.
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post #165 of 3028 Old 01-03-2017, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by LJG View Post
Exactly, what is especially bothersome to me in both 1080P and 4k UHD blurays is the appearance of film grain as Mosquito video noise, up close to the screen it appears not as grain but as mosquito video noise.
What projector are you using when you see this ? I'm seeing this on my JVC RS600 , never noticed this on my VW600. Take away the grain and the noise is near 100% gone, that is for digitally mastered movies only though. Will have my VW675 up in a week, will be interesting to see how it handles the same situation. Grain doesn't bother me at all , not a fan but at least it does not move. The digital mosquito noise is movement and that gets noticed big time, even though it is subtle .

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post #166 of 3028 Old 01-04-2017, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by RS3771 View Post
I agree - but get confused when other people report the same movies I see as having a lot of noise/grain - as playing perfectly fine. For example, on bluray.com site, the reviewer raves about the PQ of the Jason Bourne 4K disc while a user review says it has way too much noise/grain and I experienced the same thing. Anyway, I'll have my PJ calibrated by the end of this month along with pulling the Radiance Pro back in the loop - and see where that takes it...

On another note, I am very pleased with the 3D performance - I'm getting abundant brightness that was badly lacking in the 1100ES for a 14-ft wide image.
Hi
Is that video/noise you are talking about ? or grain ?
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post #167 of 3028 Old 01-04-2017, 10:31 AM
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Is there any anticipation the price falls on these after the JVC laser projector finally ships?
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post #168 of 3028 Old 01-04-2017, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Is there any anticipation the price falls on these after the JVC laser projector finally ships?
Or maybe increases.

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post #169 of 3028 Old 01-05-2017, 02:11 PM
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A bit off topic, but still part of the 5000 equation...

Lots of talk on the Panasonic 4K player thread, and even some talk on the Oppo 203 thread, that the Panny produces a superior picture (sharper with more detail). I presume with a 5000es and a decent sized ST100 screen, this would be fairly evident.

I am not so worried about the 203 glitches, as firmware should eventually fix them. However the numerous reports that the Panny produces a superior soundstage and picture has me wondering if it's possible that firmware updates will allow it to match or surpass the Panny?

If any of you 5000 owners have compared these two 4K players, please share your finding re which has the best picture.

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post #170 of 3028 Old 01-05-2017, 06:00 PM
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Is there any anticipation the price falls on these after the JVC laser projector finally ships?
Since you have mentioned the JVC... I've just viewed at CES the actual production unit hardware with final pre-launch firmware and here's my wholly unbiased and impartial verdict for those who are interested:
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
OK folks here's my feedback and it's not good news so sorry in advance for igniting a grenade in this thread... Salient points as per follows:

• JVC DLA-RS4500/Z1 unit being demoed = final production hardware with final beta / pre-production firmware, with 1.3 gain projection screen, playing Warcraft 4K UHD HDR

• CR and black levels subjectively appear to be about the same as the SONY 5000ES, possibly a bit worse... and the Lumens did not look more than circa 2,600... so the figures reported ^^^ look about right, unfortunately

• I viewed the WOLF CINEMA equivalent immediately afterwards, where this also was using a 1.3 gain screen and I asked the guy to turn down the lighting such that the ambient light levels were about the same as in the JVC booth... And the brightness was noticeably significantly higher so the 3200 lumens reports subjectively seem accurate, but the CR looked significantly worse as compared with the JVC... with retail price being $50K

• I prefer the SONY 5000ES to both

• This projector is not suitable or the correct choice for my intended application so regrettably I will be cancelling my pre-orders

Sorry folks!
Where you can read more about this in the respective thread HERE: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post49607585

Where IMO subjectively the SONY 5000ES significantly outperforms the JVC DLA-RS4500/Z1 in all respects and IMO is the best consumer HT projector for under $100K purchase price

So, in short, IMO the JVC DLA-RS4500/Z1 despite targeting and being intended to compete with the SONY 5000, completely fails to do so in any regard, and consequently I don't think there will be any need whatsoever for SONY to reduce the price of the 5000ES... Where IMO the additional cost is well worth the money comparatively speaking
.
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post #171 of 3028 Old 01-05-2017, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
A bit off topic, but still part of the 5000 equation...

Lots of talk on the Panasonic 4K player thread, and even some talk on the Oppo 203 thread, that the Panny produces a superior picture (sharper with more detail). I presume with a 5000es and a decent sized ST100 screen, this would be fairly evident.

I am not so worried about the 203 glitches, as firmware should eventually fix them. However the numerous reports that the Panny produces a superior soundstage and picture has me wondering if it's possible that firmware updates will allow it to match or surpass the Panny?

If any of you 5000 owners have compared these two 4K players, please share your finding re which has the best picture.
I have both, compared both with the same content (Jason B., Deadpool, Miss Peregrine's, Magnificent Seven, a couple of others). IMO, the Panny had the better image in all but Jason B., which appeared to me to be about the same. Audio was also a bit better in the Panny with Miss Peregrine's, but overall about the same with the others. Subjective obviously.

I will keep both, looking for the 203 to improve with updates, we'll see.



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post #172 of 3028 Old 01-05-2017, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Since you have mentioned the JVC... I've just viewed at CES the actual production unit hardware with final pre-launch firmware and here's my wholly unbiased and impartial verdict for those who are interested:

Where you can read more about this in the respective thread HERE: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post49607585

Where IMO subjectively the SONY 5000ES significantly outperforms the JVC DLA-RS4500/Z1 in all respects and IMO is the best consumer HT projector for under $100K purchase price

So, in short, IMO the JVC DLA-RS4500/Z1 despite targeting and being intended to compete with the SONY 5000, completely fails to do so in any regard, and consequently I don't think there will be any need whatsoever for SONY to reduce the price of the 5000ES... Where IMO the additional cost is well worth the money comparatively speaking
.
Hi Nigel,

So how did the final version deal with the "blue cast" issue?
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post #173 of 3028 Old 01-06-2017, 01:19 AM
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There will be a Firmware update for the vpl-vw 5000 for HLG. Will be an update for Dolby Vision as well ? Are there some News about it?
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post #174 of 3028 Old 01-06-2017, 04:39 PM
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Hi Nigel, So how did the final version deal with the "blue cast" issue?
Hi Ted, nice to bump into you again on here!

In answer to your question, to be perfectly honest I don't know... I was so taken aback at the video performance being so vey considerably worse and not even remotely being in line with JVC's forecasted and/or published video performance figures, and just how shockingly bad the projector looked even on the comparatively small screen and with a pretty decently blacked out environment that I completely forgot about that particular matter I am embarrassed to say!

But thank you for reminding me, so I must look into that!

One thing's for sure though... To all the fine gentlemen on here who purchased a SONY 5000ES I'd say you have clearly backed the right horse!
.
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post #175 of 3028 Old 01-07-2017, 10:42 AM
 
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Hi Ted, nice to bump into you again on here!

In answer to your question, to be perfectly honest I don't know... I was so taken aback at the video performance being so vey considerably worse and not even remotely being in line with JVC's forecasted and/or published video performance figures, and just how shockingly bad the projector looked even on the comparatively small screen and with a pretty decently blacked out environment that I completely forgot about that particular matter I am embarrassed to say!

But thank you for reminding me, so I must look into that!

One thing's for sure though... To all the fine gentlemen on here who purchased a SONY 5000ES I'd say you have clearly backed the right horse!
.
Just like to update this thread with what you posted in the JVC thread:

Quote:
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UPDATE: Hi everyone, Well I am pleased to report that JVC have provided us with the answers we seek. And I am very glad to report it's all good!

Salient info as per follows:

• There are no production JVC Z1/RS4500 projectors available yet, and what you have seen so-far at all venues are pre-production units hand built for demonstration.

• None of them conform to the full advertised release specification.

• JVC will not be shipping production units until they are satisfied that they perform fully to the advertised specifications.

• It is difficult to predict the timing of engineering to a release-state product.

• NO production units have been released for review or testing, so the test results published by the German magazine [VIDEO] can only be based on pre-production hardware/firmware like that you have seen, and will therefore be inaccurate. There are also other considerations like the source equipment and media that will have had an impact on their tests.


So, that’s absolutely brilliant news as far as I and my company is concerned, but not just us, we have a number of business associates, who reacted the same way as us and the other folk on here to these first 'official' published measurements, and like us, have sizeable preorders for the JVC DLA-RS4500/Z1… And so, we would all like to thank both JVC and Habitech the UK’s distributor for the RS4500/Z1 for their time, assistance, and most importantly for so promptly providing the answers we have all been need and hence much needed clarity with respect to the circumstances; and particularly with respect to confirming that these initial published and supposedly official measurements by the German AV magazine VIDEO are inaccurate, are not representative of the final product, and hence should be disregarded entirely.

Further to this, Habitech the UK’s distributor for the RS4500/Z1 have also been kind enough to confirm THIS:
Where suffice to say this is precisely what I will be doing and so thank you kindly for the invitation

Further to this, the next event of importance as far as we are concerned will be the confirmed measurements of actual production units with launch firmware by the likes of Kris, where I am looking forward to reading his (and others') confirmation that the projector does indeed deliver the performance that JVC has said it will, namely: “fully to the advertised specifications”

And I'm also very much looking forward to Ekki's/Cine4Home's shoot-out as well, to say the least!

OK Mike and Craig you can say “I told you so!” now
.
The Z1 isn't dead in the water as some had thought.
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post #176 of 3028 Old 01-07-2017, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Either way there is another thread where members can discuss other brands with the 5000. This thread is for the actual owners to discuss the 5000 and subjects pertaining to it. Which is why I created it in the first place.

Appreciate you letting us stay on topic.

We don't need the minute to minute up and down updates on a model that is not even released yet here. Pretty sure there is another thread dedicated for it.
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post #177 of 3028 Old 01-07-2017, 11:47 AM
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I would say there is a lot of wishful thinking going on right now with thoughts that, at this late stage, the Z1 has even a remote chance to meet its previously targeted specs or catch the 5000. The Z1/5000 comparison is a reasonable inference due to the fact that it is being posted on the 5000 owner's thread.

Well, this clip comes to mind:

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post #178 of 3028 Old 01-07-2017, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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This sums up the situation pretty good as well!

https://68.media.tumblr.com/bdb12cb3...2588o1_500.gif
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4K HDR10- ignore the “rules” and trust your eyes!

Last edited by joerod; 01-07-2017 at 12:01 PM.
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post #179 of 3028 Old 01-07-2017, 12:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
I would say there is a lot of wishful thinking going on right now with thoughts that, at this late stage, the Z1 has even a remote chance to catch the 5000. This is a reasonable inference due to the fact that it is being posted on the 5000 owner's thread.

Well, this clip comes to mind:

https://youtu.be/KX5jNnDMfxA
When did I say it was going to "catch" the 5000ES? It's always been known the 5000ES was going to be brighter in a color matched mode. I'm just adding on to correct crucial information that was posted which everyone seemed fine with when it was bad news. I didn't see any "stay out because you're not an owner" comments then. There's nothing wrong with correcting incorrect information and it's also not my fault it was posted here in the first place.

Last edited by Seegs108; 01-07-2017 at 12:37 PM.
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post #180 of 3028 Old 01-07-2017, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Actually I just read all of it today. Been busy and there is no good news or bad news about a new projector coming that needs to be posted here. Now I will say if JVC is having to meet with Arrow to convince him then that can't be good. Either way if anyone wants to read about it there is a dedicated thread. Not this one.
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4K HDR10- ignore the “rules” and trust your eyes!
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