The Official 5000ES 4K Laser Sony Owner's Thread - Page 60 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1771 of 2896 Old 12-12-2017, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHWman View Post
Really ? Wow, since most of us did PJ picture calibration (with good benefits), then this Sony Autocal feature is useless, yes ? This is just marketing Bull***t then. Incredible ...
Its more like Sony providing this feature for its own benefit - if a projector gets knocked around during shipping and you hang it - you can bring it to Sony specs..
No love for the user here.
Now if it could go back to (a) what a user calibrates (b) Sony default - both - then we have something.
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post #1772 of 2896 Old 12-12-2017, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHWman View Post
Really ? Wow, since most of us did PJ picture calibration (with good benefits), then this Sony Autocal feature is useless, yes ? This is just marketing Bull***t then. Incredible ...
One of the things that Sony is also great at is just that "marketing". However I think it's more relevant a feature for their lower models where majority of casual owners will not calibrate and assume OOTB is the best it can't get.

I had it on my previous projector 665es and never used it.

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post #1773 of 2896 Old 12-12-2017, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by baseball0618 View Post
One of the things that Sony is also great it is just that "marketing". However I think it's more relevant a feature for their lower models where majority of casual owners will not calibrate and assume OOTB is the best it can't get.
Yes, this makes sense for lower priced models but for this (high-priced) 5000ES, I was expected a better (Professional) real autocalibration function ...

In fact, I was 'dreamed' that I should run the Autocal function once after my spectrometer calibration process (to let the PJ store the current 'calibrated' colorimetry) and then run its autocal function later-on (once a year or so) to let it automatically correct the measured colorimetry shifting to get back what has been calibrated initialy. THAT is a real and usefull feature Maybe I'm overdreaming

So, as before with my 1000ES, I should redo the calibration process every year to keep good image display...

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post #1774 of 2896 Old 12-12-2017, 06:37 AM
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The Official 5000ES 4K Laser Sony Owner's Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHWman View Post
yes, this makes sense for lower priced model but for this (high-priced) 5000ES, I was expected a better (Professional) Autocalibration function ...



In fact, I was 'dreamed' that I should run the Autocal function once after my spectrometer calibration process (to let the PJ store the current 'calibrated' colorimetry) and then run its autocal function later-on (once a year or so) to let it automatically correct the measured colorimetry shifting to get back what has been calibrated initialy. THAT is a real and usefull feature Maybe I'm overdreaming



John


That was what I initially thought as well. Give it a calibrated “reference point” and let the projector track it from there.

Totally a missed opportunity to not be able to change the factory “out of the box” targets.


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post #1775 of 2896 Old 12-12-2017, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHWman View Post
Yes, this makes sense for lower priced models but for this (high-priced) 5000ES, I was expected a better (Professional) real autocalibration function ...

In fact, I was 'dreamed' that I should run the Autocal function once after my spectrometer calibration process (to let the PJ store the current 'calibrated' colorimetry) and then run its autocal function later-on (once a year or so) to let it automatically correct the measured colorimetry shifting to get back what has been calibrated initialy. THAT is a real and usefull feature Maybe I'm overdreaming

So, as before with my 1000ES, I should redo the calibration process every year to keep good image display...

John
Maybe on the 6000es? That would be an unbelievable feature to have!

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post #1776 of 2896 Old 12-12-2017, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
That was what I initially thought as well. Give it a calibrated “reference point” and let the projector track it from there.

Totally a missed opportunity to not be able to change the factory “out of the box” targets.


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It shouldn't be that difficult should it? You just set a user chosen start-point (post calibration)for the autocal to use as it's reference then the program should work in the same manner as it does now and not require new programming?

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post #1777 of 2896 Old 12-12-2017, 06:42 AM
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The Official 5000ES 4K Laser Sony Owner's Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHWman;



So, as before with my 1000ES, I should redo the calibration process every year to keep good image display...



John

Without the constant aging on a bulb like in the 1000ES, the 5000ES should remain much more stable.




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post #1778 of 2896 Old 12-12-2017, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baseball0618;
It shouldn't be that difficult should it? You just set a user chosen start-point (post calibration)for the autocal to use as it's reference then the program should work in the same manner as it does now and not require new programming?


Completely agree. That what I was talking about with the Sony engineers who were assisting with the 5000ES stack.


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post #1779 of 2896 Old 12-12-2017, 06:55 AM
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@ccool96 : yes, UHP bulb lamps aging is an old story, I guess...

I hope that Sony projectors firmware techs read all these comments and gather them to improve their products. I'm sure they want to keep their "good quality and featured" projector products ranking they have on the market nowadays ...
John
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post #1780 of 2896 Old 12-12-2017, 02:20 PM
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I predict that Art's room renovation and stacked 5000 laser projectors will be fully done and calibrated by X-Mas 2017! Anyone else care to predict?

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post #1781 of 2896 Old 12-13-2017, 07:32 AM
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Periodic Laser Calibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
I was just talking with Sony engineers about this last week.

I originally thought you could have the unit professionally calibrated and save that as the reference, and use the “Auto Cal” feature over time to adjust for any changes.

But they confirmed all the “Auto Cal” feature will do is make adjustment to bring it back to the original factory “Out of Box” condition.

I don’t see where this offers any real benefit.


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First, I want to confirm the above menu setting IS NOT the periodic laser calibration setting that I am discussing below. Or is it?
_____________

The periodic laser calibration setting in the VW5000 settings menu states that it performs the calibration automatically after a certain period of time; at that time, the calibration starts when the power button of projector or remote control is pressed; and after the calibration finishes the power turns off. "On" performs the calibration automatically.

If you engage this, does this simply ensure that the laser output remains constant at whatever percentage that you have set it for? What if you have different sources (SD, HD, 4k, 4k HDR) for which you may have different laser levels set? Does using this do anything to change the calibration settings? (Ken Whitcomb is just finishing up today!!! At 90% laser power, 29 footlamberts! HA!)

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post #1782 of 2896 Old 12-13-2017, 03:04 PM
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Ken Whitcomb completed my calibration and setup today - [email protected]@@@ And here I thought I had a good picture before! I am blown away! Using Lumagen Radiance Pro to tonemap HDR to SDR is only way to go. Ken setup comparison settings on my Lumagen for tonemapping vs straight HDR and no contest in any way, shape or form. WOW! Totally blows me away. Everything looks so good - but 4k HDR tonemapped is unbelievable! Ken is now calibrating and setting up Mani not far from me.So at 90% laser I have 29 fl - I am running 4k HDR at full 100% laser so I have even more fl. Ken says movies are mastered about 30 - 32 fl
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post #1783 of 2896 Old 12-13-2017, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Ken Whitcomb completed my calibration and setup today - [email protected]@@@ And here I thought I had a good picture before! I am blown away! Using Lumagen Radiance Pro to tonemap HDR to SDR is only way to go. Ken setup comparison settings on my Lumagen for tonemapping vs straight HDR and no contest in any way, shape or form. WOW! Totally blows me away. Everything looks so good - but 4k HDR tonemapped is unbelievable! Ken is now calibrating and setting up Mani not far from me.So at 90% laser I have 29 fl - I am running 4k HDR at full 100% laser so I have even more fl. Ken says movies are mastered about 30 - 32 fl
Steve:

I just need to correct a common misconception of the Lumagen Intensity mapping, it is not an HDR to SDR conversion, it is HDR 2020 in a SDR container so that the Sony does not go into HDR mode.
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post #1784 of 2896 Old 12-13-2017, 04:37 PM
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Steve:

I just need to correct a common misconception of the Lumagen Intensity mapping, it is not an HDR to SDR conversion, it is HDR 2020 in a SDR container so that the Sony does not go into HDR mode.
Right! Thanks!!!

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The VW5000 has a "panel alignment" setting - yes or no. Does yes simply return to the factory panel alignment, which has been proven to be best. I think that's what I have read here.

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post #1786 of 2896 Old 12-13-2017, 05:20 PM
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Panel alignment is either off(factory) or on user adjusted. Which is best is often debated on both sides.
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Originally Posted by LJG View Post
Panel alignment is either off(factory) or on user adjusted. Which is best is often debated on both sides.
I asked because Ken set this to on, so I will of course go his expertise in adjusting this!!! Picture is unbelievable, particularly 4k HDR via the Lumagen Radiance Pro. UNREAL!
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Once again - anyone?

The periodic laser calibration setting in the VW5000 settings menu states that it performs the calibration automatically after a certain period of time; at that time, the calibration starts when the power button of projector or remote control is pressed; and after the calibration finishes the power turns off. "On" performs the calibration automatically.

If you engage this, does this simply ensure that the laser output remains constant at whatever percentage that you have set it for? What if you have different sources (SD, HD, 4k, 4k HDR) for which you may have different laser levels set? Does using this do anything to change the calibration settings? (Ken Whitcomb is just finishing up today!!! At 90% laser power, 29 footlamberts! HA!)

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Directv now broadcasting HDR/HLG channels 104 and 106, looks really good!!!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
Completely agree. That what I was talking about with the Sony engineers who were assisting with the 5000ES stack.


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Chris,
Can you check with your contacts at Sony Engineering whether Sony plans to provide HDR10+ on the Sony 5000?
Thanks,
Ash
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post #1791 of 2896 Old 12-13-2017, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Once again - anyone?



The periodic laser calibration setting in the VW5000 settings menu states that it performs the calibration automatically after a certain period of time; at that time, the calibration starts when the power button of projector or remote control is pressed; and after the calibration finishes the power turns off. "On" performs the calibration automatically.



If you engage this, does this simply ensure that the laser output remains constant at whatever percentage that you have set it for? What if you have different sources (SD, HD, 4k, 4k HDR) for which you may have different laser levels set? Does using this do anything to change the calibration settings? (Ken Whitcomb is just finishing up today!!! At 90% laser power, 29 footlamberts! HA!)


Steve, great question about the periodic laser setting. Sony doesn’t give a lot of detailed info about this or the “auto-Cal” feature. I’ll try to get a detailed answer. I think I have mine turned off but will have to look.

Regarding your “panel alignment” feature, yes it should be on if there was any minor convergence issues. I think most owners use it to help dial in convergence perfectly. It’s best to use the “shift” method which adjust the entire screen for each color.

The zone adjustment is known to have adverse effects within test patterns, but i highly doubt anyone would know it from real world content.



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post #1792 of 2896 Old 12-13-2017, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
Chris,

Can you check with your contacts at Sony Engineering whether Sony plans to provide HDR10+ on the Sony 5000?

Thanks,

Ash


I’ll try to get an answer, but normally they are very quiet about these sort of additions.

I thought I had read where Lumagen might be able to add HDR+ in the future, which could do all the heavy lifting of the “dynamic metadata” externally from the projector. Basically adjusting the Lumagen’s “HDR Intensity Mapping” in real time frame by frame.





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post #1793 of 2896 Old 12-14-2017, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Ken says movies are mastered about 30 - 32 fl
Steve,

Just to be clear, I said the SMPTE peak-white level for SDR production monitors is 100 nits (29.19 fL). HDR is mastered at 1,000-10,000 nits.

The beauty of Lumagen’s HDR Intensity Mapping is it’s ability to create an HDR image with higher APL while retaining near-P3 color gamut (Color Space 2).

I’m glad that you are enjoying the calibration!


Ken Whitcomb
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post #1794 of 2896 Old 12-14-2017, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D6500Ken View Post
Steve,

Just to be clear, I said the SMPTE peak-white level for SDR production monitors is 100 nits (29.19 fL). HDR is mastered at 1,000-10,000 nits.

The beauty of Lumagen’s HDR Intensity Mapping is it’s ability to create an HDR image with higher APL while retaining near-P3 color gamut (Color Space 2).

I’m glad that you are enjoying the calibration!


Ken Whitcomb
Thanks for the clarification.

I got a kick out of post-calibration having side by side HDR vs tone mapped HDR. The HDR clearly lacked both brightness and color compared to the tone mapped HDR. What a difference! The extra expense of the Lumagen Radiance Pro and Ken's calibration and setup is worth every "penny" and more. Highly recommended for all 5000 owners as far as I am concerned. Why buy a $60k projector and some of us don't ask how much the masking screens are & not go the rest of the way to get drop dead video rivalling the best Dolby Cinema picture (or exceeding perhaps?).

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Must see live TV tonight for 5000ES owners with DTV 4k https://www.sportsvideo.org/2017/12/...-knights-game/
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The Official 5000ES 4K Laser Sony Owner's Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG;
Must see live TV tonight for 5000ES owners with DTV 4k https://www.sportsvideo.org/2017/12/...-knights-game/


Can’t wait to check this out!


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post #1797 of 2896 Old 12-14-2017, 09:13 PM
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Its confirmed. Arts stack will be all done and calibrated before this X-Mas!!!

Apparently Art lost his feet, so he's "borrowing" mine (see picture below), as he needs them to do the stack!!

Ken Whitcomb, having just finished setting up and calibrating both me and Mani, is picking up the feet (see picture below), because without them,
Art would have to wait for Sony to send new feet and this could take who knows how [email protected]@

Art, congrats on your "new" feet and much more so on your X-Mas stack!!!

Art, given this stacking, have you ordered new screen fabric, Snomatte, so you get the very best picture??? Somehow I assume this has already been done! No sense having Ken calibrate with Studiotech 1.3 gain as you will have plenty of brightness on your 16' wide screen to accomodate the best picture possible with the projector [email protected]@@
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! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!
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post #1798 of 2896 Old 12-14-2017, 10:21 PM
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The Official 5000ES 4K Laser Sony Owner's Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Its confirmed. Arts stack will be all done and calibrated before this X-Mas!!!



Apparently Art lost his feet, so he's "borrowing" mine (see picture below), as he needs them to do the stack!!



Ken Whitcomb, having just finished setting up and calibrating both me and Mani, is picking up the feet (see picture below), because without them,

Art would have to wait for Sony to send new feet and this could take who knows how [email protected]@



Art, congrats on your "new" feet and much more so on your X-Mas stack!!!



Art, given this stacking, have you ordered new screen fabric, Snomatte, so you get the very best picture??? Somehow I assume this has already been done! No sense having Ken calibrate with Studiotech 1.3 gain as you will have plenty of brightness on your 16' wide screen to accomodate the best picture possible with the projector [email protected]@@


Steve,

Thanks so much for assisting with the feet. We will get you replacement ones, but I knew getting a set from Sony in time for the install would be difficult at best!!

You have saved the day! So glad I reached Ken before he had caught a flight home.

So when we did Art’s new 16’ wide Vistascope we ordered it with ST130. The good news is that the Vistascope screens and Director’s Choice screens use the grommet / hook method instead of the snap. The benefit you wonder..... well you can flip the screen around.

From the testing I did on my 17’ wide Vistascope, the base layer of the ST130 fabric looks/measures identical to the ST100. They only apply the ST130 coating to one side of the fabric. So all Art has to do is flip the fabric around, and he has the equivalent of the ST100 on the other side.

Like a BOGO deal! Buy one / Get one free!

I know Art is excited to get his stack done. I am waiting until after Christmas before I start redoing the rear wall of my theater to accommodate the side by side stack. But I hope to get it finish around the first of the year.

Plus it only makes sense for Art to be the one who once again raises the performance bar for the rest of us!

I know you are loving your new projector / screen combo!

Best-
Chris




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post #1799 of 2896 Old 12-14-2017, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
Steve,

Thanks so much for assisting with the feet. We will get you replacement ones, but I knew getting a set from Sony in time for the install would be difficult at best!!

You have saved the day! So glad I reached Ken before he had caught a flight home.

So when we did Art’s new 16’ wide Vistascope we ordered it with ST130. The good news is that the Vistascope screens and Director’s Choice screens use the grommet / hook method instead of the snap. The benefit you wonder..... well you can flip the screen around.

From the testing I did on my 17’ wide Vistascope, the base layer of the ST130 fabric looks/measures identical to the ST100. They only apply the ST130 coating to one side of the fabric. So all Art has to do is flip the fabric around, and he has the equivalent of the ST100 on the other side.

Like a BOGO deal! Buy one / Get one free!

I know Art is excited to get his stack done. I am waiting until after Christmas before I start redoing the rear wall of my theater to accommodate the side by side stack. But I hope to get it finish around the first of the year.

Plus it only makes sense for Art to be the one who once again raises the performance bar for the rest of us!

I know you are loving your new projector / screen combo!

Best-
Chris




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Glad to help as my "feet" are so removable. But I won't be able to help you for your stack as I am keeping my "other" set of feet. HA!
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! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!
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post #1800 of 2896 Old 12-15-2017, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Its confirmed. Arts stack will be all done and calibrated before this X-Mas!!!

Apparently Art lost his feet, so he's "borrowing" mine (see picture below), as he needs them to do the stack!!

Ken Whitcomb, having just finished setting up and calibrating both me and Mani, is picking up the feet (see picture below), because without them,
Art would have to wait for Sony to send new feet and this could take who knows how [email protected]@

Art, congrats on your "new" feet and much more so on your X-Mas stack!!!

Art, given this stacking, have you ordered new screen fabric, Snomatte, so you get the very best picture??? Somehow I assume this has already been done! No sense having Ken calibrate with Studiotech 1.3 gain as you will have plenty of brightness on your 16' wide screen to accomodate the best picture possible with the projector [email protected]@@

I can't thank you enough for your kind and generous Christmas gift to me Steve ! Sing it ...All I want for Christmas is my two front feet, my two front feet, my two two front feet... ah well the back too


Talked to the builder, engineer and cabinet maker last night; the first road block is I set them less than four days to get this done before Ken gets here.


Art
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