The Official 5000ES 4K Laser Sony Owner's Thread - Page 87 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2581 of 2789 Old 03-11-2019, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by robinsj View Post
Thanks for the kind thoughts.
Spoiler!


Fantastic to hear he's doing well. Having a young son myself, I can't imagine what this is like to go through. On the bright side, I'm very relieved to hear the favourable prognosis.

Great pic - looks as happy as any other child :-)
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post #2582 of 2789 Old 03-11-2019, 03:56 PM
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Being a big Formula 1 fan - I was really looking forward to the new Netflix Formula 1 documentary... watched the first episode on my OLED (LG C8) in my informal area - this has a Onkyo receiver based ATMOS system 5.1.4 - noticed that the LGTV showed Video as Dolby Vision and Audio as ATMOS. My ONKYO is reporting ATMOS as the audio all was good..
Decided to watch the second episode in my Theater - tried my first option - it showed the show was in 4K (no HDR) and Audio 5.1 - Trinnov reported Dolby Digital... tried to watch in my Sony UHD BD Player 1000ES - same result....
Watched on Apple TV 4k - Netflix reported UHD 4K (No HDR) BUT when watching the audio stream picked up was ATMOS by the Trinnov.
Apple TV is now my choice of streamer - I need to install the Apple TV firmware on the 5000 even though I am facing no issues at all with the 5000 and the ATV.
PS - Very cool to watch 2.0 contest using the Paladin DCR - it covers the entire 2.40 screen.
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post #2583 of 2789 Old 03-11-2019, 04:09 PM
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Watched it on appleTV, with the latest projector update.
Wow..the picture in 4k and the Dolby Atmos are outstroudinary
When I first read about the show I was disappointed since the big teams Mercedes and Ferrari did not participate.
I am half way through now and it is fascinating.

So many good stories within the teams you seldom hear about. Just a great show and a technical tour de force.

If your are F1 fan, it is must see.




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post #2584 of 2789 Old 03-11-2019, 04:12 PM
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They scenes during the races are just incredible....like nothing I have ever seen


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post #2585 of 2789 Old 03-11-2019, 04:41 PM
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Sooooo.... fairly confident mine will need to go back to Sony. Just finished a bunch of different testing, still baffled though. Been testing with an nvidia shield, as it’s easy to move around. So I have a shield, fiber hdmi, and short hdmi. Everything was unplugged, hdmi cables and power cables, for at least an hour. Testing went like this:

Shield > Receiver > Fiber Cable > Sony (Input 1) = No Video
Shield > Receiver > Fiber Cable > Sony (Input 2) = Video
Shield > Short cable > Sony (Input 1) = Video
Shield > Fiber Cable > Sony (Input 1) = No Video
Shield > Fiber Cable > Sony (Input 2) = Video

So baffling......
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post #2586 of 2789 Old 03-11-2019, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robinsj View Post
Sooooo.... fairly confident mine will need to go back to Sony. Just finished a bunch of different testing, still baffled though. Been testing with an nvidia shield, as it’s easy to move around. So I have a shield, fiber hdmi, and short hdmi. Everything was unplugged, hdmi cables and power cables, for at least an hour. Testing went like this:

Shield > Receiver > Fiber Cable > Sony (Input 1) = No Video
Shield > Receiver > Fiber Cable > Sony (Input 2) = Video
Shield > Short cable > Sony (Input 1) = Video
Shield > Fiber Cable > Sony (Input 1) = No Video
Shield > Fiber Cable > Sony (Input 2) = Video

So baffling......
Have you tried cycling hdmi 1 on the 5000 from enhanced, then to standard/normal and then back to enhanced. Unlikely to fix things, but worth a try before sending it off. Also the Shield (at least through my MX160) will sometimes work better as far as hdmi syncing on the 5000 if the projector is not set to enhanced hdmi. It’s an odd bug, that also plagues my ATV 4K through the 160. My best wishes to your son for a full recovery as well.
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post #2587 of 2789 Old 03-12-2019, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robinsj View Post
Sooooo.... fairly confident mine will need to go back to Sony. Just finished a bunch of different testing, still baffled though. Been testing with an nvidia shield, as it’s easy to move around. So I have a shield, fiber hdmi, and short hdmi. Everything was unplugged, hdmi cables and power cables, for at least an hour. Testing went like this:

Shield > Receiver > Fiber Cable > Sony (Input 1) = No Video
Shield > Receiver > Fiber Cable > Sony (Input 2) = Video
Shield > Short cable > Sony (Input 1) = Video
Shield > Fiber Cable > Sony (Input 1) = No Video
Shield > Fiber Cable > Sony (Input 2) = Video

So baffling......
What is the fibre cable, and at what length, and what is the exact signal being sent from the shield (e.g. 2160p 4:2:2 12bit 60Hz)?
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post #2588 of 2789 Old 03-12-2019, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
What is the fibre cable, and at what length, and what is the exact signal being sent from the shield (e.g. 2160p 4:2:2 12bit 60Hz)?
MANY fiber cables do not handle DDC properly. Most will spoof the 5 volts "ignition" sequence, which makes it tough for HPD to do its thing. Testing some cables with a Quantum Data 780 will show that HPD never cycles on resolution or frame rate changes. In addition, most manufacturers are playing a little loosely will some HDMI specs such as how close to 5V that output is, and the current supplied. Current best practices assume that a "short cable" actually be 2m-3m in length. I've noticed much better reliability in the last 6 months by sticking with quality cables of that length. On a high profile job last week, the HDMI over fiber extenders had .5m cables from the sources to transmitter and from the receiver to projector, only for aesthetics in the rack and projector cabling. Replacing those with 3m cables completely solved the video dropouts and sync issues on source changes.

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post #2589 of 2789 Old 03-12-2019, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by appelz View Post
MANY fiber cables do not handle DDC properly. Most will spoof the 5 volts "ignition" sequence, which makes it tough for HPD to do its thing. Testing some cables with a Quantum Data 780 will show that HPD never cycles on resolution or frame rate changes. In addition, most manufacturers are playing a little loosely will some HDMI specs such as how close to 5V that output is, and the current supplied. Current best practices assume that a "short cable" actually be 2m-3m in length. I've noticed much better reliability in the last 6 months by sticking with quality cables of that length. On a high profile job last week, the HDMI over fiber extenders had .5m cables from the sources to transmitter and from the receiver to projector, only for aesthetics in the rack and projector cabling. Replacing those with 3m cables completely solved the video dropouts and sync issues on source changes.
I do understand what your saying, but that wouldn’t explain why it works on one input and not the other. The cable I am using is 100 ft long, as my rack of equipment is far away from the theater, it’s not being used for aesthetics, it’s being used because it is the best cable to use because of the length. I have thought about buying a second one, and run it just through the house to the Projector to see if it would work, a different cable but still fiber and 100’ in length. But, the sensible side of me says, the one you have works on input 2.
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post #2590 of 2789 Old 03-12-2019, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by robinsj View Post
I do understand what your saying, but that wouldn’t explain why it works on one input and not the other. The cable I am using is 100 ft long, as my rack of equipment is far away from the theater, it’s not being used for aesthetics, it’s being used because it is the best cable to use because of the length. I have thought about buying a second one, and run it just through the house to the Projector to see if it would work, a different cable but still fiber and 100’ in length. But, the sensible side of me says, the one you have works on input 2.
I agree completely, and that was why I quoted Wookii instead of your post. I worked on a Sony 5000 recently where simply slightly wiggling the HDMI connector on Input 1 would get a picture after a source change would blank the output. Video would be very reliable until a source change, no drop outs etc.
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post #2591 of 2789 Old 03-12-2019, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by appelz View Post
I agree completely, and that was why I quoted Wookii instead of your post. I worked on a Sony 5000 recently where simply slightly wiggling the HDMI connector on Input 1 would get a picture after a source change would blank the output. Video would be very reliable until a source change, no drop outs etc.
Yea, I wish wiggling it would produce a picture, at least then I would have a result. HDMI connections, dropouts, has got to be one of the worst problems, because a lot of the time there is no rhyme or reason for the issue. This fiber cable worked on input 1 for almost a year, never had any issue with drops or anything.
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post #2592 of 2789 Old 03-13-2019, 02:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by appelz View Post
MANY fiber cables do not handle DDC properly. Most will spoof the 5 volts "ignition" sequence, which makes it tough for HPD to do its thing. Testing some cables with a Quantum Data 780 will show that HPD never cycles on resolution or frame rate changes. In addition, most manufacturers are playing a little loosely will some HDMI specs such as how close to 5V that output is, and the current supplied. Current best practices assume that a "short cable" actually be 2m-3m in length. I've noticed much better reliability in the last 6 months by sticking with quality cables of that length. On a high profile job last week, the HDMI over fiber extenders had .5m cables from the sources to transmitter and from the receiver to projector, only for aesthetics in the rack and projector cabling. Replacing those with 3m cables completely solved the video dropouts and sync issues on source changes.
Agreed Adam, that's why I asked which fibre cable the OP was using, and what the bit rate was of the signal being used. You're experience of all this is, of course, much greater than mine, but in my own limited usage tests for example, I found Celerity fibre cables could not reliably pass 2160p/60Hz. I switched to a RuiPro, and it has been faultless ever since. The problem is, the failures are not always consistent or immediately repeatable. On the Celerity I had, for example, one day it might not handshake at start-up all, the next day it might handshake at start-up and be fine for an hour, and then lose signal.

Just to clarify then, are you saying because the cable works on one input, and not the other, the cable won't be the issues in the OP's case? Just out of interest, from your own testing, which fibre cables do you recommend?

Also agree on the minimum cable length. Jim at Lumagen has been advising customers for the last couple of years to have a minimum cable length of 6Ft anywhere in the chain. I forget the exact technical reasons, but something along the lines that many source devices build in the possibility of cable losses into the output signal stength, and on short runs this can result in overloading of the input HDMI port on the receiving device.
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Originally Posted by robinsj View Post
Yea, I wish wiggling it would produce a picture, at least then I would have a result. HDMI connections, dropouts, has got to be one of the worst problems, because a lot of the time there is no rhyme or reason for the issue. This fiber cable worked on input 1 for almost a year, never had any issue with drops or anything.
FYI, My 5000ES is attached to my sources rack using a very old 8 meters long Blue Jeans Cable (BJC2) for almost 20 years. I'm using PJ's input #1 and have no issue (except for known 'longer' HDMI handshake time that Sony's PJ always had). UDP203 + Zappity HDR duo players both set to 4:4:4 10 bits YUV @ max. 60Hz...

John

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My dedicated HT room !
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post #2594 of 2789 Old 03-13-2019, 06:35 AM
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Sorry, I did forget to mention it is a DTech 100 ft hdmi cable. I believe my shield is set to, 4k, 4:2:2, 60hz, if I am remembering correctly off the top of my head. Either way, whatever it is set to works on input 2. I just may buy one of those ruipro cables from amazon and test it on input 1.....amazon does have easy returns....
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post #2595 of 2789 Old 03-13-2019, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Agreed Adam, that's why I asked which fibre cable the OP was using, and what the bit rate was of the signal being used. You're experience of all this is, of course, much greater than mine, but in my own limited usage tests for example, I found Celerity fibre cables could not reliably pass 2160p/60Hz. I switched to a RuiPro, and it has been faultless ever since. The problem is, the failures are not always consistent or immediately repeatable. On the Celerity I had, for example, one day it might not handshake at start-up all, the next day it might handshake at start-up and be fine for an hour, and then lose signal.

Just to clarify then, are you saying because the cable works on one input, and not the other, the cable won't be the issues in the OP's case? Just out of interest, from your own testing, which fibre cables do you recommend?

Also agree on the minimum cable length. Jim at Lumagen has been advising customers for the last couple of years to have a minimum cable length of 6Ft anywhere in the chain. I forget the exact technical reasons, but something along the lines that many source devices build in the possibility of cable losses into the output signal stength, and on short runs this can result in overloading of the input HDMI port on the receiving device.
I am told the new series from Celerity is greatly improved. I have quite a few of their original cables installed, because at one point they were the best/only game in town.

Ruipro is a fine cable, but I have had two bad brand new cables. Currently, I specify two solutions. The first is Tributaries Titan, which is Jim's new favorite also. When I also need Ethernet, IR or RS232 control, audio extraction etc I use a new product from AVPro. I just installed one at the new CEDIA Reference Cinema in their new headquarters.

https://www.avprostore.com/Uncompres...xo-unc-kit.htm

Spot on with your recollection on using 2m cables. There are a few other technical reasons also.

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post #2596 of 2789 Old 03-13-2019, 04:31 PM
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Currently, I specify two solutions. The first is Tributaries Titan, which is Jim's new favorite also. When I also need Ethernet, IR or RS232 control, audio extraction etc I use a new product from AVPro. I just installed one at the new CEDIA Reference Cinema in their new headquarters

Adam,
Would you expound on the new CEDIA headquarters theater ?

Art
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post #2597 of 2789 Old 03-13-2019, 05:00 PM
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I am told the new series from Celerity is greatly improved. I have quite a few of their original cables installed, because at one point they were the best/only game in town.

Ruipro is a fine cable, but I have had two bad brand new cables. Currently, I specify two solutions. The first is Tributaries Titan, which is Jim's new favorite also. When I also need Ethernet, IR or RS232 control, audio extraction etc I use a new product from AVPro. I just installed one at the new CEDIA Reference Cinema in their new headquarters.

https://www.avprostore.com/Uncompres...xo-unc-kit.htm

Spot on with your recollection on using 2m cables. They are a few other technical reasons also.
A couple of years ago, when I was debating on adding a Lumagen Pro to my theater... for the 5000, I was emailing Jim links to Tributaries hdmi cables, especially the Aurora optical/copper hybrid cable. Jim was not familiar with this cable or that familiar with this company at the time. I’m glad he kept tabs with Tributaries, as they make excellent cables. At some point I may add a Lumagen Pro, but will wait to see how the MadVR stand alone box turns out first.
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post #2598 of 2789 Old 03-13-2019, 05:47 PM
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Adam,
Would you expound on the new CEDIA headquarters theater ?

Art
https://www.trinnov.com/2019/03/06/t...a-headquarters

Aside from the propaganda, lets see...

Procella P815 for the mains, in a baffle wall. Eight Procella P6V for surround and rear channels, and eight of the new Procella P8IW in the ceiling. We would have upgraded the surround speakers as well, but construction of the isolation and back boxes was probably too far along at that point. The builder, Steve Kujala of Heartwood Customs, is patient enough with me when I make changes, but I have to draw the line somewhere! There are also four Procella P18 subwoofers, with independent amplification for each driver. As the article above says, there is a Trinnov Altitude32 of course. QSC Q-SYS for each channel, utilizing a Core510c and a pair of i/o frames, feeding a stack of QSC DCA amplifiers. Lumagen, Barco Loki, 14.5' 2.35 Stewart screen. Hrm....Lutron Ketra lighting, plenty of RGB LED, Crestron control, Josh AI. Engineering and Architectural/Isolation design by Dennis Erskine, Acoustical design by Quest Acoustical Interiors, and as mentioned earlier, all of the construction from room isolation to custom doors to interior trim work completed by Steve Kujala and his crew.

I will be finishing up the audio calibration right before the grand opening on March 28th. Ken Whitcomb and I beat our way through the Lumagen and Loki combo last week, and Ken will be doing lots of tweaking before the big night. He knows his stuff for sure.

I'm sure there will be a press release in the next few weeks about it also. Pretty cool space they have built out there. They have built rooms to showcase the use of technology in different parts of a home, including a kitchen, bedroom, bathroom, living room space, etc. There is also plenty of space for their educational boot camp courses, video and podcast facilities, and offices/conference rooms for CEDIA staff.

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post #2599 of 2789 Old 03-13-2019, 06:36 PM
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is there a difference on the 5000 with input 1 and 2 like there was on their older ES models?

Chip-
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post #2600 of 2789 Old 03-13-2019, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by appelz View Post
https://www.trinnov.com/2019/03/06/t...a-headquarters

Aside from the propaganda, lets see...

Procella P815 for the mains, in a baffle wall. Eight Procella P6V for surround and rear channels, and eight of the new Procella P8IW in the ceiling. We would have upgraded the surround speakers as well, but construction of the isolation and back boxes was probably too far along at that point. The builder, Steve Kujala of Heartwood Customs, is patient enough with me when I make changes, but I have to draw the line somewhere! There are also four Procella P18 subwoofers, with independent amplification for each driver. As the article above says, there is a Trinnov Altitude32 of course. QSC Q-SYS for each channel, utilizing a Core510c and a pair of i/o frames, feeding a stack of QSC DCA amplifiers. Lumagen, Barco Loki, 14.5' 2.35 Stewart screen. Hrm....Lutron Ketra lighting, plenty of RGB LED, Crestron control, Josh AI. Engineering and Architectural/Isolation design by Dennis Erskine, Acoustical design by Quest Acoustical Interiors, and as mentioned earlier, all of the construction from room isolation to custom doors to interior trim work completed by Steve Kujala and his crew.

I will be finishing up the audio calibration right before the grand opening on March 28th. Ken Whitcomb and I beat our way through the Lumagen and Loki combo last week, and Ken will be doing lots of tweaking before the big night. He knows his stuff for sure.

I'm sure there will be a press release in the next few weeks about it also. Pretty cool space they have built out there. They have built rooms to showcase the use of technology in different parts of a home, including a kitchen, bedroom, bathroom, living room space, etc. There is also plenty of space for their educational boot camp courses, video and podcast facilities, and offices/conference rooms for CEDIA staff.
Sounds awesome Adam!
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post #2601 of 2789 Old 03-13-2019, 06:44 PM
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Glass less Porthole design by Floyd Toole

Floyd Toole designed this for his JVC, I think its ingenious and should be easily adaptable for the 5000ES. I am going to try and incorporate into my hushbox design.
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post #2602 of 2789 Old 03-13-2019, 07:18 PM
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Floyd Toole designed this for his JVC, I think its ingenious and should be easily adaptable for the 5000ES. I am going to try and incorporate into my hushbox design.
Lon,
In your build thread I saw that your hush box is quite tight for the 5000 - this projector throws out a lot of heat especially when you run HDR movies in Laser setting 100 - I fought the heat for quite some time and finally and my Cool System was upgraded to the highest CFM they make - and the hush box still it runs hot...
Not sure if you install it with the PVC pipe - what will happen to the heat dissipation and the problems associated with it.
My two cents.
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post #2603 of 2789 Old 03-14-2019, 06:31 AM
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Floyd Toole designed this for his JVC, I think its ingenious and should be easily adaptable for the 5000ES. I am going to try and incorporate into my hushbox design.

Problem with this setup it is not easy to install the anamorphic lens , with the RS4500 it's a must to achieve adequate brightness at mid laser , prevent running on high which is what the vast majority do. The VW5000 would not necessarily need the anamorphic lens but if you do, this solution will also present issues if a anamorphic lens is being considered.

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post #2604 of 2789 Old 03-14-2019, 09:04 AM
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I am told the new series from Celerity is greatly improved. I have quite a few of their original cables installed, because at one point they were the best/only game in town.



Ruipro is a fine cable, but I have had two bad brand new cables. Currently, I specify two solutions. The first is Tributaries Titan, which is Jim's new favorite also. When I also need Ethernet, IR or RS232 control, audio extraction etc I use a new product from AVPro. I just installed one at the new CEDIA Reference Cinema in their new headquarters.



https://www.avprostore.com/Uncompres...xo-unc-kit.htm



Spot on with your recollection on using 2m cables. There are a few other technical reasons also.


Can I ask...In your opinion which product the AVPro UNC or the Titan cable for a 45ft run from a Lumagen to a 5000. Obviously there is a price difference but if we take that out of the equation do you find one to be more reliable/perform better than the other?


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post #2605 of 2789 Old 03-14-2019, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by appelz View Post
I am told the new series from Celerity is greatly improved. I have quite a few of their original cables installed, because at one point they were the best/only game in town.

Ruipro is a fine cable, but I have had two bad brand new cables. Currently, I specify two solutions. The first is Tributaries Titan, which is Jim's new favorite also. When I also need Ethernet, IR or RS232 control, audio extraction etc I use a new product from AVPro. I just installed one at the new CEDIA Reference Cinema in their new headquarters.

https://www.avprostore.com/Uncompres...xo-unc-kit.htm

Spot on with your recollection on using 2m cables. There are a few other technical reasons also.
Thanks Adam, that Tributaries Titan looks a good option. I remember when I was having my Celerity woes, the only other options were a Tributaries cable or the RuiPro - I assume that was pre-Titan though, as that first Tributaries cable I was directed to was two and a half grand for 10 metres! . . .That Titan cable is much more reasonable though.

The RuiPro will do me for now until well into the HDMI 2.1 era (and sources and content that uses it) - though I don't relish the task of trying to find a cable that can do 48Gbps!
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post #2606 of 2789 Old 03-15-2019, 04:49 AM
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As Adam mentioned, the rack to projector at CEDIA HQ is the AVPro. We have in our possession a 25m Tributaries Titan cable and a 25m Velox Active 24G certified cable that also uses the Titan chip. Given time and opportunity, we may just "play".
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post #2607 of 2789 Old 03-15-2019, 06:53 AM
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As Adam mentioned, the rack to projector at CEDIA HQ is the AVPro. We have in our possession a 25m Tributaries Titan cable and a 25m Velox Active 24G certified cable that also uses the Titan chip. Given time and opportunity, we may just "play".
Thank you. Curious to know if you eventually have any thoughts. My long HDMI run is a constant battle. I have used the AVPro extenders, specifically the AC-EX-70-444 which does use some compression. I was intrigued by the new UNC Fiber uncompressed unit. Currently use the Ruipro cable but its just ok. Wondering if the Titan would lend better results or if I should jump right to the UNC. Thanks Again
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post #2608 of 2789 Old 03-15-2019, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by dinamigym View Post
Can I ask...In your opinion which product the AVPro UNC or the Titan cable for a 45ft run from a Lumagen to a 5000. Obviously there is a price difference but if we take that out of the equation do you find one to be more reliable/perform better than the other?


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I have not had any issues with either one so far. I suppose it really comes down to your needs. IR/RS232/Ethernet plus other features make the AVPro kit pretty cool.
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post #2609 of 2789 Old 03-15-2019, 09:53 AM
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I have not had any issues with either one so far. I suppose it really comes down to your needs. IR/RS232/Ethernet plus other features make the AVPro kit pretty cool.


Thank you! Really appreciate your thoughts/experience with it.


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post #2610 of 2789 Old 03-15-2019, 10:30 AM
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I have not had any issues with either one so far. I suppose it really comes down to your needs. IR/RS232/Ethernet plus other features make the AVPro kit pretty cool.
Adam installed an AVPro unit in my setup last June and I have had zero issues whatsoever with it. I also utilize the IR functionality of it too. Now if only the 5000 wasn't soooo slow to sync and lost connection when fast forwarding or rewinding I'd be extremely happy. Need something to complain about though, right?
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