The Official 5000ES 4K Laser Sony Owner's Thread - Page 93 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2761 of 2789 Old 05-23-2019, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
Sure you are not seeing chromatic aberration ? I have never seen any changes switching between convergence on or off , certainly nothing in dynamic content .
Yup, quite sure. Turned the alignment on, saw the artifacts, turned it off and they vanished.
As I said though, you had to be pretty darn close to notice and it was only on certain colours. Green for example.

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post #2762 of 2789 Old 05-23-2019, 07:33 AM
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Yup, quite sure. Turned the alignment on, saw the artifacts, turned it off and they vanished.
As I said though, you had to be pretty darn close to notice and it was only on certain colours. Green for example.

If I get within inches of any screen I can usually find artifacts, with any projector actually, but only when looking at static patterns, even the best will reveal little anomalies. Taking a picture during dynamic content is a different situation however , even if you could identify from a picture taken from dynamic content it's so insignificant you just don't see the artifacts even if present, certainly not from the seat . All these triple panel projectors suffer from various convergence issues , only some of the DLP single chips appear cleaner , but they have their own little anomalies . When anomalies start showing up on dynamic problem that's when my alarm bells go off .

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post #2763 of 2789 Old 05-27-2019, 08:04 AM
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I understood this update was forthcoming earlier in the new year, if it doesn't materialize soon it may not show up at all. If a new model to replace the VW5000 was coming we may never see any update otherwise they are shooting themselves in the foot. Well, I have not heard rumors of a new projector, with CEDIA only 3 1/2 months out you would think something would have leaked by now. Something is not adding up.
So I’m ready to buy. Am I safe to go ahead and do so, or should I wait for CEDIA? Thanks.
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post #2764 of 2789 Old 05-27-2019, 08:41 AM
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So I’m ready to buy. Am I safe to go ahead and do so, or should I wait for CEDIA? Thanks.

There has not been any rumors a replacement is on the horizon, normally there are some leaks by now, so who knows if this model will remain the current flagship . It's really close enough to wait if you are someone who is willing to pay the leading edge pricing , as you know there are no breaks for the first in line . Will a new model actually arrive, will the upgrades be worthy and would you accept the pricing, those are the relevant questions . I did not wait because I know that I would not pay full pricing , the VW5000 as it is does not have any technological disadvantages to any current model from any brand and the pricing was appropriate . Other than adding 8K , possibly more lumens ,I don't really anticipate any new feature that will entice enough to pay the additional, but again this remains to be seen . The VW5000 is also due a firmware update to add many ,if not most of the upgrades that were included on the VW995 , again, rumors until it happens .



During the weekend I updated the firmware on my Lumagen Pro which included the lastest DTM ( dynamic tone mapping) . I'm seeing a substantial improvement in the low APL end that balances scenes more appropriately, on the other end a noticeable improvement in color pop and spectral highlights . A new model could have on board DTM that is just as good, up to this point external devices only provide the best DTM available.



On the upside, if a new model does show up , expect many members with the VW5000 now will be upgrading, for those looking for a affordable light canon , there should be a few on the market before and after CEDIA. A low time laser will not show any losses fortunately for me I found a new in the box zero hour unit privately .
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post #2765 of 2789 Old 05-27-2019, 09:04 AM
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There has not been any rumors a replacement is on the horizon, normally there are some leaks by now, so who knows if this model will remain the current flagship . It's really close enough to wait if you are someone who is willing to pay the leading edge pricing , as you know there are no breaks for the first in line . Will a new model actually arrive, will the upgrades be worthy and would you accept the pricing, those are the relevant questions . I did not wait because I know that I would not pay full pricing , the VW5000 as it is does not have any technological disadvantages to any current model from any brand and the pricing was appropriate . Other than adding 8K , possibly more lumens ,I don't really anticipate any new feature that will entice enough to pay the additional, but again this remains to be seen . The VW5000 is also due a firmware update to add many ,if not most of the upgrades that were included on the VW995 , again, rumors until it happens .



During the weekend I updated the firmware on my Lumagen Pro which included the lastest DTM ( dynamic tone mapping) . I'm seeing a substantial improvement in the low APL end that balances scenes more appropriately, on the other end a noticeable improvement in color pop and spectral highlights . A new model could have on board DTM that is just as good, up to this point external devices only provide the best DTM available.



On the upside, if a new model does show up , expect many members with the VW5000 now will be upgrading, for those looking for a affordable light canon , there should be a few on the market before and after CEDIA. A low time laser will not show any losses fortunately for me I found a new in the box zero hour unit privately .
At last CEDIA I was told by Sony rep that the VW5000 remains the consumer flagship for the forseeable future and as such it will be getting firmware upgrades that are possible given its hardware consistent with Sony's new projectors like the 995.
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post #2766 of 2789 Old 05-27-2019, 09:43 AM
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At last CEDIA I was told by Sony rep that the VW5000 remains the consumer flagship for the forseeable future and as such it will be getting firmware upgrades that are possible given its hardware consistent with Sony's new projectors like the 995.

Actually, I just confirmed the same , dealer pricing for the VW5000 is good through the end of December 2019 , no replacement announced . Cannot comment on the firmware upgrade though, as an owner I would appreciate the update , keep the projector up to date as all other current newer flagship models .
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Actually, I just confirmed the same , dealer pricing for the VW5000 is good through the end of December 2019 , no replacement announced . Cannot comment on the firmware upgrade though, as an owner I would appreciate the update , keep the projector up to date as all other current newer flagship models .
Yes I am hoping Sony will carry through and what they clearly told me at last CEDIA. If not by next CEDIA, will ask them at CEDIA again!
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post #2768 of 2789 Old 05-27-2019, 03:07 PM
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Thank you for your comments and research. I greatly appreciate the help.
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post #2769 of 2789 Old 05-30-2019, 10:43 AM
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New firmware should be in the fall. Perhaps digital focus and something dynamic...

We shall see.... but great job by Sony supporting their products this way...
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New firmware should be in the fall. Perhaps digital focus and something dynamic...

We shall see.... but great job by Sony supporting their products this way...

I would have much preferred that they released the "big" update in the first quarter as they stated. If you don't count 4.70 which was to solve a very specific issue, that Apple's arrogance necessitated, it would be a year between updates. Not exactly my definition of support for a flagship product. But you're correct...we shall see.
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post #2771 of 2789 Old 05-30-2019, 11:48 AM
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I would have much preferred that they released the "big" update in the first quarter as they stated. If you don't count 4.70 which was to solve a very specific issue, that Apple's arrogance necessitated, it would be a year between updates. Not exactly my definition of support for a flagship product. But you're correct...we shall see.
Who stated officially "first quarter"?

I don't think AV product updates are as "regular" as PC or mobile device updates, chiefly because of the lack of security issues that often necessitate more frequent updates. Engineering and testing I'm sure takes a lot longer for these kinds of updates as well.
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Who stated officially "first quarter"?

I don't think AV product updates are as "regular" as PC or mobile device updates, chiefly because of the lack of security issues that often necessitate more frequent updates. Engineering and testing I'm sure takes a lot longer for these kinds of updates as well.
During a Webinar in early February, Andrew Turner stated a "big" update would be released by the end of the quarter.

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post #2773 of 2789 Old 05-30-2019, 12:14 PM
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During a Webinar in early February, Andrew Turner stated a "big" update would be released by the end of the quarter.
Regional US sales guy is likely not high enough up the food chain to make such a comment tbh... I suspect he is not deeply involved with the engineers in Japan...

Or, that was the plan, but they changed their mind either for quality or feature set reasons. Either way, I'm personally fine with the timings - the long term support is there for the product.

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Regional US sales guy is likely not high enough up the food chain to make such a comment tbh... I suspect he is not deeply involved with the engineers in Japan...

Or, that was the plan, but they changed their mind either for quality or feature set reasons. Either way, I'm personally fine with the timings - the long term support is there for the product.

No disrespect, Trang, but Andrew Turner is their projector "guru" and training guy who is in constant contact with the engineers.
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My 2 cents:

A. The fact that it still their current flagship and they are still trying to improve (even if stated date delayed) is a huge win!

B. Speaking from experience, I’ll take a delayed FW release that has been well tested and implemented over a “Blue” image all day every day. Not saying that’s the reason for the delay but obviously there is some reason and I’m chalking up to that fact that it’s in the owners best interest.




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post #2776 of 2789 Old 05-30-2019, 03:54 PM
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New firmware should be in the fall. Perhaps digital focus and something dynamic...

We shall see.... but great job by Sony supporting their products this way...
Why on earth they need to add digital processing trickery to such a superb lens is anyone's guess.

From what I have seen it simply is not required, so I wouldn't worry if it is not included.

Does the 5000 have full 18Gbps HDMI ports?

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Why on earth they need to add digital processing trickery to such a superb lens is anyone's guess.

From what I have seen it simply is not required, so I wouldn't worry if it is not included.

Does the 5000 have full 18Gbps HDMI ports?
I agree its rubbish. Im tried it on my projector and its just like a darbee. Actually I find it can cause more issues. I turn the whole RC off not needed.
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post #2778 of 2789 Old 05-31-2019, 05:44 AM
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No disrespect, Trang, but Andrew Turner is their projector "guru" and training guy who is in constant contact with the engineers.


You would think a lead engineer would have accurate dates and details , I'm sure he was given a update time frame that was intended, my guess it was just delayed. Too many have conveyed a significant update is forthcoming, I do expect it will eventually be made available. I'm sure it's delayed for good reason, personally, I'd prefer a trouble free well tested firmware update than something hastily done that could cause more issues than it resolves .
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Why on earth they need to add digital processing trickery to such a superb lens is anyone's guess.

From what I have seen it simply is not required, so I wouldn't worry if it is not included.

Does the 5000 have full 18Gbps HDMI ports?

The ARC is a great lens but it also has less accuracy at the edge, on a super large screen I'm sure this would be more beneficial . For some content it has been noted to introduce unwanted artifacts, but there are circumstances/content where it adds to the image. So, DFO just like RC, noise suppression, Darbee , sharpening , motion control and other types of electronic processing all have applications that enhance the image . Any owner has a choice to use these various tools or simply turn them off . The vast majority do use RC most of the time, personally, I'd like to have the oportunity to see what DFO offers, if it's not adding anything , it's quite easy to turn off .


I see this feature being passed down the chain in the next round, the hybrid acrylic main element lens used in the other models have softer edges by design, this is where I see it being more beneficial. Still need a bigger screen/image to see the difference, on the average home screen 120" range it will be difficult to realize the benefits especially from normal seating distances .

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The ARC is a great lens but it also has less accuracy at the edge, on a super large screen I'm sure this would be more beneficial . For some content it has been noted to introduce unwanted artifacts, but there are circumstances/content where it adds to the image. So, DFO just like RC, noise suppression, Darbee , sharpening , motion control and other types of electronic processing all have applications that enhance the image . Any owner has a choice to use these various tools or simply turn them off . The vast majority do use RC most of the time, personally, I'd like to have the oportunity to see what DFO offers, if it's not adding anything , it's quite easy to turn off .


I see this feature being passed down the chain in the next round, the hybrid acrylic main element lens used in the other models have softer edges by design, this is where I see it being more beneficial. Still need a bigger screen/image to see the difference, on the average home screen 120" range it will be difficult to realize the benefits especially from normal seating distances .
Hmmmm, the ARC-F lens is marketed as a superior lens with crisp focus from edge to edge.
DFO is purely a marketing ploy and and unneeded one.
The only reason it has been done I think, is because the lens used on the 760 et al, is actually very good (better than many give it credit for) and they needed to have a visible differentiator between the 760 and 870.
On the 5000, people pay so much money they just accept they are getting the best lens anyway and won't even have necessarily viewed any of the lower models and probably don't care either.
I agree that on larger screens the extremities of the lens will be being used, but the lens (which is the best part of 10k to buy standalone BTW) has been engineered to resolve pixels properly even at those limits.
We all know processing can and does improve image quality, but machines with the ARC-F lens really don't need that sort of crutch.
The models with the standard 4K lenses would diubtless benefit a lot more from corner sharpening, but from what I have read it needs to be tailored to the lens in each unit, possibly driving up costs. However I think they could simply add a corner sharpening tool to the lower models and it would be nigh on the same.
No one with an 1100 has ever complained about the lens on their machines as far as I am aware. No DFO on those.

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post #2781 of 2789 Old 05-31-2019, 08:20 AM
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Hmmmm, the ARC-F lens is marketed as a superior lens with crisp focus from edge to edge.
DFO is purely a marketing ploy and and unneeded one.
The only reason it has been done I think, is because the lens used on the 760 et al, is actually very good (better than many give it credit for) and they needed to have a visible differentiator between the 760 and 870.
On the 5000, people pay so much money they just accept they are getting the best lens anyway and won't even have necessarily viewed any of the lower models and probably don't care either.
I agree that on larger screens the extremities of the lens will be being used, but the lens (which is the best part of 10k to buy standalone BTW) has been engineered to resolve pixels properly even at those limits.
We all know processing can and does improve image quality, but machines with the ARC-F lens really don't need that sort of crutch.
The models with the standard 4K lenses would diubtless benefit a lot more from corner sharpening, but from what I have read it needs to be tailored to the lens in each unit, possibly driving up costs. However I think they could simply add a corner sharpening tool to the lower models and it would be nigh on the same.
No one with an 1100 has ever complained about the lens on their machines as far as I am aware. No DFO on those.


I agree i turned mine off and still get sharpness edge to edge with Arc-F. I noticed it straight away in the inbuilt test pattern when tested it.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post
I agree i turned mine off and still get sharpness edge to edge with Arc-F. I noticed it straight away in the inbuilt test pattern when tested it.


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You'll need to look at patterns to see the difference becasue unlike the vast majority of dynamic content, patterns are linear in sharpness to the edges. The ARC is sharper at the edges in micro details, but you have to get close to the screen to see this . For dynamic content and the vast majority of content most of the peripheral areas are out of focus anyway, differences, when I have viewied both, are not easy to realize. DLP single chips right now are the king of razor sharpness, triple chip technology will never be able to keep up, so in-fact, the lens is not the Achilles heal . Any triple panel design is only sharpenst when convergence is set, then thermal variances will always cause drift , perfect alignment will never be as good as single chip DLP nor will it remain stable even when set up perfectly . Projectors that heat up more have larger swings in temperature, those larger variances mess with convergence and focus , that is already been shown .



I also have to laugh at those pointing the finger at plastic lens as some detriment, then the very same person puts a Paladin DCR ( plastic lens) in front of all glass lens claiming it improves detail and sharpness. I've read reviews lately calling the Paladin a great glass, one saleman selling it that didn't even know it was plastic ( acrtlichybrid ). I have a Paladin DCR to use with my VW5000 because I have always known how good plastic is, otherwise it would not go in front of the projector. And BTW, if you wear glasses they are the first "PLASTIC" element in the chain , that accounts for 60% of the population.



If we were projecting images on 16ft wide screens I'd say this is when the micro details start to become more obvious, for screens used in the average home theater, differences are microscopic. Until they can make triple panels more accurate , single chip DLP wins the sharpness race so far.
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post #2783 of 2789 Old 06-04-2019, 07:34 AM
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Is anybody else still having trouble with video dropouts when watching Apple TV 4K on this projector? I have upgraded the firmware to 4.7 and I thought that was supposed to take care of these issues. But last night it was unwatchable. YouTube, MLB, Amazon all were going blank periodically. The audio keeps playing though. The behavior is like to ATV and the Sony are re-handshaking the HDMI connection in the middle of videos. These are not 4K HDR videos either, just normal HD videos. No issues on any other sources, just the Apple TV.

Thanks,
John

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post #2784 of 2789 Old 06-04-2019, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demoleon View Post
Is anybody else still having trouble with video dropouts when watching Apple TV 4K on this projector? I have upgraded the firmware to 4.7 and I thought that was supposed to take care of these issues. But last night it was unwatchable. YouTube, MLB, Amazon all were going blank periodically. The audio keeps playing though. The behavior is like to ATV and the Sony are re-handshaking the HDMI connection in the middle of videos. These are not 4K HDR videos either, just normal HD videos. No issues on any other sources, just the Apple TV.

Thanks,
John

I feel your pain...I used to. Switched to this cable and it's like night and day now.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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post #2785 of 2789 Old 06-04-2019, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
You'll need to look at patterns to see the difference becasue unlike the vast majority of dynamic content, patterns are linear in sharpness to the edges. The ARC is sharper at the edges in micro details, but you have to get close to the screen to see this . For dynamic content and the vast majority of content most of the peripheral areas are out of focus anyway, differences, when I have viewied both, are not easy to realize. DLP single chips right now are the king of razor sharpness, triple chip technology will never be able to keep up, so in-fact, the lens is not the Achilles heal . Any triple panel design is only sharpenst when convergence is set, then thermal variances will always cause drift , perfect alignment will never be as good as single chip DLP nor will it remain stable even when set up perfectly . Projectors that heat up more have larger swings in temperature, those larger variances mess with convergence and focus , that is already been shown .



I also have to laugh at those pointing the finger at plastic lens as some detriment, then the very same person puts a Paladin DCR ( plastic lens) in front of all glass lens claiming it improves detail and sharpness. I've read reviews lately calling the Paladin a great glass, one saleman selling it that didn't even know it was plastic ( acrtlichybrid ). I have a Paladin DCR to use with my VW5000 because I have always known how good plastic is, otherwise it would not go in front of the projector. And BTW, if you wear glasses they are the first "PLASTIC" element in the chain , that accounts for 60% of the population.



If we were projecting images on 16ft wide screens I'd say this is when the micro details start to become more obvious, for screens used in the average home theater, differences are microscopic. Until they can make triple panels more accurate , single chip DLP wins the sharpness race so far.
Now that is a very good and pertinent observation. It also made me chuckle.
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Last edited by Archibald1; 06-04-2019 at 09:08 AM.
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post #2786 of 2789 Old 06-04-2019, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinamigym View Post
I feel your pain...I used to. Switched to this cable and it's like night and day now.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
That's the cable I am using. I have reset the unit, reset the video, had the ATV test the cable...all good. But dropouts continue. Unit is basically useless. Wish I had never bought it.

John

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post #2787 of 2789 Old 06-04-2019, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demoleon View Post
Is anybody else still having trouble with video dropouts when watching Apple TV 4K on this projector? I have upgraded the firmware to 4.7 and I thought that was supposed to take care of these issues. But last night it was unwatchable. YouTube, MLB, Amazon all were going blank periodically. The audio keeps playing though. The behavior is like to ATV and the Sony are re-handshaking the HDMI connection in the middle of videos. These are not 4K HDR videos either, just normal HD videos. No issues on any other sources, just the Apple TV.

Thanks,
John
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinamigym View Post
I feel your pain...I used to. Switched to this cable and it's like night and day now.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Yes I recommended that cable for Apple TV 4K months ago. Apple sells it on their website too as the cable for their 4k streamer. I even had issues using my Radiance Pro w Sony 5000. No issues at for months now using the Belkin cable from Apple TV 4K to Radiance a Pro!

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 If I recommend a dealer It will be a person to person recommendation and if a dealer tells you I refer to them don’t believe it! ! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade awaiting July/August 2019!
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post #2788 of 2789 Old 06-18-2019, 02:33 PM
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I have a stack of two 5000ES projectors and I'm having issues keeping them in alignment. One will drift as quick as a day or two, so the image appears to ghost on each other.

Anyone else see this issue? Screen is 19' wide.
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post #2789 of 2789 Old 06-21-2019, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Coudron View Post
I have a stack of two 5000ES projectors and I'm having issues keeping them in alignment. One will drift as quick as a day or two, so the image appears to ghost on each other.

Anyone else see this issue? Screen is 19' wide.
Are you using the internal stacking image alignment software?

Art
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