Official JVC RS4500/Z1 Owner's Thread - Page 106 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3151 of 3391 Old 08-17-2019, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post
I just resized and cropped your picture below.
It does look more brown content to my eyes.
And not as bright.

Mine,
Spoiler!


I'm totally lost on this guys to be honest.


Terry


Terry can we not do a basic camera comparison to maybe help put your mind at ease about what you're seeing vs what we're seeing in your Samsung phone's photos? Do you have another camera of does your wife or a friend have an iPhone say(preferably a half decent digital camera would even more ideal) that you could do the same shots with? That might go some ways help get an idea of what's happening here with the colours.

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post #3152 of 3391 Old 08-17-2019, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post

And btw, I woudlnt bother upgrading the panasonic. If you want to get anything, get a lumagen or wait for envy instead. You can't compare the static meta based tone mapping to the dynamic tone mapping of these devices.
100% Absolutely agree on this...
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post #3153 of 3391 Old 08-17-2019, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by woofer View Post
100% Absolutely agree on this...

Likewise. My 9000 with Lumagen is real overkill in video department vs the benefit of the Lumagen alone. There's a possible audiophile benefit, but I haven't even explored that side yet as I hardly ever sit my HT listening to music these days.
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post #3154 of 3391 Old 08-17-2019, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
Likewise. My 9000 with Lumagen is real overkill in video department vs the benefit of the Lumagen alone. There's a possible audiophile benefit, but I haven't even explored that side yet as I hardly ever sit my HT listening to music these days.
I have the UB9000 .......it now sits idle as now i use madVR,s DTM

I could NOT go back to using the UB9000 and its "Static" Tone Mapping..
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post #3155 of 3391 Old 08-17-2019, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by woofer View Post
I have the UB9000 .......it now sits idle as now i use madVR,s DTM

I could NOT go back to using the UB9000 and its "Static" Tone Mapping..

Static curves via the 9000 isn't even a contemplation against the Lumagen DTM. Mine purely serves as a disc player as that's still valid in my HT since I've got no real desire to digitise nearly 150 UHD discs on to my NAS (or ramp the storage that far). About to test the latest Lumagen DTM firmware. If I get enough time I should be able to have a bit of an assessment of how it's currently comparing to MadVR.
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post #3156 of 3391 Old 08-18-2019, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
Mine purely serves as a disc player as that's still valid in my HT since I've got no real desire to digitise nearly 150 UHD discs on to my NAS (or ramp the storage that far).
I have now got just on 180 UHD stored on my NAS ... BUT have a physical copy of every disc...

Just a note..... you do NOT have to have the UHD "ripped" to a hard drive to play via madVR...you can play direct from the disc via a "Friendly" UHD Drive..
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post #3157 of 3391 Old 08-18-2019, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by woofer View Post
I have now got just on 180 UHD stored on my NAS ... BUT have a physical copy of every disc...
I've done the same. Maybe half that number of UHD discs but another 400+ BluRays (movies and concert videos). The initial ripping was time consuming (I purchased 3 "friendly" drives) but once that was done, now it takes less than an hour to rip a new one. The convenience factor, now that the process is in place, far outweighs the initial effort. Being able to view my library in so many different ways and with instant access makes it way more convenient. I used to have a Kaleidescape system. What I have now, has almost everything it did at about 1/10th the price.

But, not everyone is inclined to want to take on such an effort. In fact, most are not.
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post #3158 of 3391 Old 08-18-2019, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
. I used to have a Kaleidescape system. What I have now, has almost everything it did at about 1/10th the price.

But, not everyone is inclined to want to take on such an effort. In fact, most are not.
1/10th the price seems a bit of a stretch! A 12TB movie player is $8k. 3 UHD "friendly" drives, Oppo player or similar, plus NAS with 12TB of drive space costs a good bit more than $800.

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post #3159 of 3391 Old 08-18-2019, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Terry, I sent you instructions on how to view (and not make any changes) to your convergence. It's not hard if you know how to use the remote. First question here. Does the images match what you see on the screen or do they look redder here? If the screen looks less red than the photos then its case closed. Move on.

Next, did you turn on the projector and immediately take photos? Or did you let it warm up an hour first? Sometimes red convergence can be off as the projector warms up.

You really need to learn to do some simple things without a professional

And btw, I woudlnt bother upgrading the panasonic. If you want to get anything, get a lumagen or wait for envy instead. You can't compare the static meta based tone mapping to the dynamic tone mapping of these devices.
Mark, I did see the PM you sent and I will take a look and see what's-up with that.
And I will be damn sure the RS4500 is on for hours before looking buddy.
I appreciate your information.

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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Have you installed your Atmos speakers? I don't think you had them when Chad was there last time so I guess they have not been included in your audio as of yet, correct?
Chuck, Nope, no Atmos here buddy.
I have not totally given up on adding it at sometime in the future but not right now.
I need more CASH on hand for that to take place and right now I'm not comfortable with doing that.


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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
Terry can we not do a basic camera comparison to maybe help put your mind at ease about what you're seeing vs what we're seeing in your Samsung phone's photos? Do you have another camera of does your wife or a friend have an iPhone say(preferably a half decent digital camera would even more ideal) that you could do the same shots with? That might go some ways help get an idea of what's happening here with the colours.
Nope, just the Samsung cellphones on this end.
No-Worries though as I am going to eventually going to get this situation totally under control once again.
I think it will be months but it will happen.
I'm going to keep my hands/fingers off the settings so that when Chad B does come he can see for himself where all settings are.
Meanwhile it's not so bad that it's apparent to either Cathy or me so I can wait for Chad B.

Quote:
Originally Posted by woofer View Post
I have the UB9000 .......it now sits idle as now i use madVR,s DTM

I could NOT go back to using the UB9000 and its "Static" Tone Mapping..
Woofer, in my case I am going to go with the new Panasonic UB9000.

Even if I had and was willing to spend what the Lumagen sells for I'm not going there.
I know I'm not even remotely capable of tuning the Lumagen and here where I am I do-not know of any really qualified A/V Shop that can.
Sometimes money is not the deciding factor in one's decisions.
There have been cars over the years that I really-really liked and in-fact wanted but ..........
No local dealers and certainly no local support so I've never gone down that path.
Same-thing to me with the Lumagen it seems to be the way to go if ???
You are fortunate enough to have support where you live .........

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
Static curves via the 9000 isn't even a contemplation against the Lumagen DTM. Mine purely serves as a disc player as that's still valid in my HT since I've got no real desire to digitise nearly 150 UHD discs on to my NAS (or ramp the storage that far). About to test the latest Lumagen DTM firmware. If I get enough time I should be able to have a bit of an assessment of how it's currently comparing to MadVR.
I am as I said above going to add the UB9000 and if it's a positive enhancement to the picture, great, if not so be it guys.
I can afford to do the UB9000 and once it's set-up it's not something that constantly needs additional refinement.
I like and prefer simple operation to the Home Theater.
Example, pick-up the right remote and fire-up the system and sit my old butt down and enjoy my system.
I'm not one of the gang that just loves fiddling with their Home Theater components.

I do applaud those on AVS that have the talent to calibrate their H/T systems ............

Terry

Last edited by tigerhonaker; 08-18-2019 at 11:43 AM.
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post #3160 of 3391 Old 08-18-2019, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by woofer View Post
I have now got just on 180 UHD stored on my NAS ... BUT have a physical copy of every disc...

Just a note..... you do NOT have to have the UHD "ripped" to a hard drive to play via madVR...you can play direct from the disc via a "Friendly" UHD Drive..

Yeah, well aware. I have my UHD friendly drive in my Study/gaming PC rig not in my current HTPC. The issue there is the wider usage of the NAS means it actually would make more sense to have UHD on the NAS (although bandwidth won't really support that remotely). Mind you no one in my house seems to want watch anything from the physical library except me.. Also, with finickiness of HTPC/Lumagen/JVC together at times, I'd rather not have it as a main disc playing source. I had an issue on Saturday night even with what's now a regular issue with video level flags not going through correctly to the JVC (after I've put them back to Auto when using the 9000 or any other video source). I realised fairly early when I started watching a movie with mates after already stopping playback a couple of times to fix (what also is now a regular event), windows audio output format being locked in stereo. Then after sorting the video level manually (when we had an intermission so as not to keep annoying sh*t out of guests) on the JVC, after being stuck in black for 5 mins, blaming the HTPC and Lumagen not syncing together properly, I discovered the JVC had actually had a hiccup (green light flashing) and had to be restarted. This is what puts me off HTPC as sole playback source, despite being a guy who was at the bleeding edge of HTPC back when you had to use component video adapters with rear pro TV's, etc.
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post #3161 of 3391 Old 08-18-2019, 09:16 PM
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I just want to give a BIG shout out to Kris Deering.
He came and calibrated my 4500/LumagenPro/DCR lens combo on Friday.
He did an auto cal on my projector then dialed the rest in with the Lumagen.
After Kris left - my wife and I decided to watch a movie, then a second one and then I put on some very familiar scenes from various movies.
The scenes were absolutely stunning. My wife ( who before calibration stated this projector was the best she has seen) stated “the colors look so vivid that you can almost reach out and touch the screen- it looks so lifelike”.
As I continue to view various material all weekend long I am loving the results more and more - just an incredible picture.
Thank you Kris
As a side note:
I do also want to say I was a little reluctant at first to purchase the Lumagen and add more cost to an already expensive projector ( thanks Craig for nudging me a little to purchase it) BUT after seeing what it does now that it is set up properly (not to mention the incredible TM and ongoing support it receives ). It is literally “plug and play” as it does the TM,selects SDR,HDR and the aspect ratio all automatically. I have to say it is one of the best video purchases I feel I have ever made.
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post #3162 of 3391 Old 08-19-2019, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
windows audio output format being locked in stereo.
HTPC should be set to bit stream audio. In this case it makes no difference if its stuck in 2 channel, 5 channel etc. Windows mixer will be bypassed and the receiver takes care of it.

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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
Then after sorting the video level manually (when we had an intermission so as not to keep annoying sh*t out of guests) on the JVC, after being stuck in black for 5 mins, blaming the HTPC and Lumagen not syncing together properly, I discovered the JVC had actually had a hiccup (green light flashing) and had to be restarted.
Green light flashing & black screen, someone pressed the 'hide' button on the remote. You didn't have to restart the projector only press 'hide' again

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post #3163 of 3391 Old 08-19-2019, 06:56 AM
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I too just completed a DCR/Lumagen Rad Pro install and calibration via Craig Rounds last week. To say I am happy with the results is an understatement!. I was considering the combo last year, but decided on static curves and the UB820 b/c I was nervous about constantly having to fiddle w/ the Lumagen, but once the DTM was released I just had to take the plunge. I can never go back to static curves again, the DTM the Lumagen pulls-off is amazing! The image quality has taken another leap forward and the scaling using the Lumagen is wonderful too. No more fooling around with lens memories or zooming in and out.

Craig is amazing as well. He spent nearly 22 hours in two days at my home getting everything right so that I got the best our of my projector that I possibly could have. I have an SDR mode and (2) HDR modes. One using the filter and high laser and the other using the HDR color profile and mid laser. I will be using high laser more than I thought I ever would! The added color gamut really does make a difference to the overall image . Craig and I both thought the colors looked more natural, especially in the skin tones/reds.
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post #3164 of 3391 Old 08-19-2019, 07:03 AM
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I too just completed a DCR/Lumagen Rad Pro install and calibration via Craig Rounds last week. To say I am happy with the results is an understatement!. I was considering the combo last year, but decided on static curves and the UB820 b/c I was nervous about constantly having to fiddle w/ the Lumagen, but once the DTM was released I just had to take the plunge. I can never go back to static curves again, the DTM the Lumagen pulls-off is amazing! The image quality has taken another leap forward and the scaling using the Lumagen is wonderful too. No more fooling around with lens memories or zooming in and out.

Craig is amazing as well. He spent nearly 22 hours in two days at my home getting everything right so that I got the best our of my projector that I possibly could have. I have an SDR mode and (2) HDR modes. One using the filter and high laser and the other using the HDR color profile and mid laser. I will be using high laser more than I thought I ever would! The added color gamut really does make a difference to the overall image . Craig and I both thought the colors looked more natural, especially in the skin tones/reds.
He did the same in my home as well the week before yours. Same projector+Lumagen but I have the non-DCR version of the lens.

While it was my intent to have a mid and high laser version for HDR, I (unfortunately and to no avail) had him spend time trying to get my Nvidia Shield to behave properly. But because I had done a recent firmware update to my Shield, it was totally worthless (and still is). If he gets out this way sometime in the future, I may have him come by and do the high laser calibration as well. BUT, even without it, the resulting image is truly remarkable.
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post #3165 of 3391 Old 08-19-2019, 05:42 PM
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I finally watched a few movies all of the way through since I installed the update to the DTM processing in my Lumagen. WOW!, just WOW! pretty much sums it up. The RS4500, when compared to other JVC projectors, doesn't have the same black levels. That may be true on some test patterns but when watching real world movies, you would be hard pressed to tell.

The combination of the RS4500/Lumagen/Panamorph is one heck of a combination. Consider me more than satisfied that I spent what I did to end up with this combination!!
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post #3166 of 3391 Old 08-19-2019, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post
I like and prefer simple operation to the Home Theater.
Example, pick-up the right remote and fire-up the system and sit my old butt down and enjoy my system.
I'm not one of the gang that just loves fiddling with their Home Theater components.

I do applaud those on AVS that have the talent to calibrate their H/T systems ............

Terry
Terry...I'm going to suggest you call Chad and discuss the matter with him. Ask him if he's heard of the firmware update causing any issue with his work. It very well could just be the camera you're using to post screen shots with. Especially since you're not noticing an issue live.

See ya. Dave

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post #3167 of 3391 Old 08-19-2019, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
HTPC should be set to bit stream audio. In this case it makes no difference if its stuck in 2 channel, 5 channel etc. Windows mixer will be bypassed and the receiver takes care of it.

I know, that's the stand protocol forever with audio from the PC. However my current config seems to let windows interfere lately and override what's passed via HDMI. I have to take a deeper look, will probably take me 5 mins when I do. But as symptomatic of things lately, I've gone from 7 out 7 nights of using projector and HTPC to now once a month if I'm lucky. So the times I'm there will usually be installing a lumagen firmware update and checking a couple of things out with a only a short time to spare. Then other times it's immediately in the presence of guests who I obviously don't want to muck around in the process of trying to do a quick settings check/troubleshooting exercise.


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Green light flashing & black screen, someone pressed the 'hide' button on the remote. You didn't have to restart the projector only press 'hide' again

Yeah in all honesty I'll bet I've accidentally done that myself when having to stuff around with the video level selection probably when screen was already dark and syncing. Exactly the type of thing that you don't do when alone but almost assured to do when hurriedly trying not to stuff around too long when watching films with others in your HT.


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Terry...I'm going to suggest you call Chad and discuss the matter with him. Ask him if he's heard of the firmware update causing any issue with his work. It very well could just be the camera you're using to post screen shots with. Especially since you're not noticing an issue live.

Totally agree here. Surely as I pointed out also, we can without too much effort remove the possibility of camera issue from the whole equation by taking a few pics with another digital camera Terry?? Would save a lot of speculation on our part and angst on yours, plus chasing busy guys like Chad about it etc..

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post #3168 of 3391 Old 08-20-2019, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
The RS4500, when compared to other JVC projectors, doesn't have the same black levels.
This is purely false. On paper it doesn't have the *contrast* specs. There are no paper specs for its black levels. It most certainly has the same or better black levels due to its awesome implementation of dynamic dimming.
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post #3169 of 3391 Old 08-20-2019, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
It most certainly has the same or better black levels due to its awesome implementation of dynamic dimming.
It most certainly does..

This is the same conclusion i came to after having the X9900/X7500 and NX9.. set up alongside my Z1/RS4500
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post #3170 of 3391 Old 08-20-2019, 04:16 AM
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This is purely false. On paper it doesn't have the *contrast* specs. There are no paper specs for its black levels. It most certainly has the same or better black levels due to its awesome implementation of dynamic dimming.
Correct. I had a brain cramp while writing that statement. My bad!
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post #3171 of 3391 Old 08-20-2019, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Jive Turkey View Post
Terry...I'm going to suggest you call Chad and discuss the matter with him. Ask him if he's heard of the firmware update causing any issue with his work. It very well could just be the camera you're using to post screen shots with. Especially since you're not noticing an issue live.
Chad's curves he did for me last year were trashed after I did the latest Freeware install, luckily at that point I already had a Lumagen Radiance pro on order and setup to be calibrated so all of his work was going to be removed anyway. One of the HDR profiles he did for me turned nearly completely blue on me, but after the firmware update I was using the stock HDR profile w/ the ATM of the JVC and was happy with that until my Lumagen/DCR lens was installed and now I am content with my HT. Until, of course, I can get a laser system that does full P3 coverage whilst providing at least 3500 lumens calibrated.

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post #3172 of 3391 Old 08-20-2019, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by baseball0618 View Post
Chad's curves he did for me last year were trashed after I did the latest Freeware install, luckily at that point I already had a Lumagen Radiance pro on order and setup to be calibrated so all of his work was going to be removed anyway. One of the HDR profiles he did for me turned nearly completely blue on me, but after the firmware update I was using the stock HDR profile w/ the ATM of the JVC and was happy with that until my Lumagen/DCR lens was installed and now I am content with my HT. Until, of course, I can get a laser system that does full P3 coverage whilst providing at least 3500 lumens calibrated.
I don't recall the firmware changing Chad's curves when I installed it. Not sure I can check either since I'm pretty sure Kris removed those to create new settings.
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post #3173 of 3391 Old 08-20-2019, 08:53 AM
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I don't recall the firmware changing Chad's curves when I installed it. Not sure I can check either since I'm pretty sure Kris removed those to create new settings.
Craig Rounds mentioned to me when he was calibrating my Lumagen last week that another one of his clients had the same thing happen to him.

JVC RS4500 projector/LG 65B7P/LG 55B7P/ Pannasonic UB820/Oppo 203/Oppo 103D/Apple tv 4K
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(2) B&W CCM 682 Atmos (2) JL Audio E112 subs
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post #3174 of 3391 Old 08-20-2019, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by baseball0618 View Post
Craig Rounds mentioned to me when he was calibrating my Lumagen last week that another one of his clients had the same thing happen to him.



Chad B. keeps a back up of all the calibrations per customer - i am sure he has the back up saved to his computer - he even left me with a thumb drive with the back ups to both the audio and video calibrations he performed on my system, so now there are two copies one he has and one i have.
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post #3175 of 3391 Old 08-20-2019, 11:31 AM
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tigerhonaker,
I like and prefer simple operation to the Home Theater.
Example, pick-up the right remote and fire-up the system and sit my old butt down and enjoy my system.
I'm not one of the gang that just loves fiddling with their Home Theater components.

I do applaud those on AVS that have the talent to calibrate their H/T systems ............

Terry
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Terry...I'm going to suggest you call Chad and discuss the matter with him.
Ask him if he's heard of the firmware update causing any issue with his work.
It very well could just be the camera you're using to post screen shots with.
Especially since you're not noticing an issue live.
Dave,

Quote:
Hi Terry,

I will let Dad get back to you about the scheduling.
I have not done an rs4500 with the update.
You can read my rs3000 review to see my thoughts on the new tone mapping, though I am not sure if it is exactly the same.
Chad
I have not yet heard from Darrel (Chad's Dad) yet for a new appointment.
Since I don't really see anything all that disturbing I haven't reached out to Darrel as of yet for the appointment with Chad B.
The only reason really I'm willing to foot the cost again for Chad is if I do in-fact switch out the Panasonic UB820 to the UB9000.
Then I would like Chad to refine the calibrations and also since I have the new RS4500 firmware now running.

We shall see how things work out as time passes.

Terry
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post #3176 of 3391 Old 08-21-2019, 08:37 AM
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Hmm. Not sure what happened to your setup Terry but sorry to hear about all the drama! Even if Chad's curves were wiped you should be able to use the auto tone mapping that was added to your projector from the update and get perfectly fine results.

As for swapping the UB820 for the 9000, I honestly don't feel like it would be necessary. The 9000 adds the low brightness projector mode, but you can easily replicate that with the SDR2020 output mode of the UB820. The only difference between the two at the end of the day is that the 9000 would flag the projector to jump to its HDR picture mode automatically while the 820 would require you to select the picture mode manually when you knew you were going to watch a 4K HDR disc. So one button press on the 4500 remote. Otherwise the only other real difference is the build on the 9000 is a bit nicer and the remote is much nicer.
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post #3177 of 3391 Old 08-21-2019, 08:53 AM
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Hmm. Not sure what happened to your setup Terry but sorry to hear about all the drama! Even if Chad's curves were wiped you should be able to use the auto tone mapping that was added to your projector from the update and get perfectly fine results.

As for swapping the UB820 for the 9000, I honestly don't feel like it would be necessary. The 9000 adds the low brightness projector mode, but you can easily replicate that with the SDR2020 output mode of the UB820. The only difference between the two at the end of the day is that the 9000 would flag the projector to jump to its HDR picture mode automatically while the 820 would require you to select the picture mode manually when you knew you were going to watch a 4K HDR disc. So one button press on the 4500 remote. Otherwise the only other real difference is the build on the 9000 is a bit nicer and the remote is much nicer.
Kris,

Well I was hoping and I did say hoping just maybe the G/M at local Best Buy might let me trade/return the UB820 for the newer higher-end UB9000.
I met him in person and we did hit if off nicely so will contact him and see what he says.
I'd be willing to make the change if I could do it like that.
And in my case I would like Chad to check the calibrations on the RS4500 after I did load the new/latest firmware recently.
So, Kris, if I'm going to pay for Chad anyway I might as well also change to the UB9000 I think.

All this is still up in the air at this point.

Oh, I'm not suffering at all the way the pictures look with the RS4500 right now.

Terry
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post #3178 of 3391 Old 08-21-2019, 09:22 AM
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RS4500 + Panamorph DCR lens + Lumagen Radiance Pro with the latest dynamic tone mapping + Kris Deering calibration = WOW ! Picture looks great ! Or maybe I should say " Shazam - it looks great " !
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post #3179 of 3391 Old 08-21-2019, 09:34 AM
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RS4500 + Panamorph DCR lens + Lumagen Radiance Pro with the latest dynamic tone mapping + Kris Deering calibration = WOW ! Picture looks great ! Or maybe I should say " Shazam - it looks great " !
The better demonstration of how well that combo works is the first few really dark scenes from that movie in the car and in the cave. It is the improvement in those kinds of scenes that got me to buy the Lumagen and have it calibrated. BUT, that said, the scenes you used in your post are more fun to look at !!
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post #3180 of 3391 Old 08-21-2019, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by SSnarski View Post
Chad B. keeps a back up of all the calibrations per customer - i am sure he has the back up saved to his computer - he even left me with a thumb drive with the back ups to both the audio and video calibrations he performed on my system, so now there are two copies one he has and one i have.
Yes I had a paper-copy with all of the settings and a thumb drive back-up. I didn't try to reset them b/c my Lumagen was going to be installed a week later anyway.

JVC RS4500 projector/LG 65B7P/LG 55B7P/ Pannasonic UB820/Oppo 203/Oppo 103D/Apple tv 4K
St 130 138" scope screen
Marantz 7704 /Integra DTA 70.1
7.2.2 Atmos (3) B&W CWM 7.3 fronts (4) B&W CCM 7.4 surrounds
(2) B&W CCM 682 Atmos (2) JL Audio E112 subs
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