Official JVC RS4500/Z1 Owner's Thread - Page 113 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3361 of 3471 Old 09-08-2019, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
I got to look at John Wick 3 in UHD HDR on the weekend running through processed through MadVR for image processing and the Lumagen doing DTM. Absolutely breathtaking picture, so many great night scenes to really test your settings out too .
Curious, why would you use the lumagen for DTM instead of madVR if you are already using madVR?

It's a shame that the John Wick movies are all so soft. I tested the bluray vs the UHD and madVR's upscaling on the 1080 looked sharper and more 4K like than the studio's upscaled UHD. The HDR aspects do look great though on the UHD especially properly tone mapped.

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post #3362 of 3471 Old 09-08-2019, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Curious, why would you use the lumagen for DTM instead of madVR if you are already using madVR?

It's a shame that the John Wick movies are all so soft. I tested the bluray vs the UHD and madVR's upscaling on the 1080 looked sharper and more 4K like than the studio's upscaled UHD. The HDR aspects do look great though on the UHD especially properly tone mapped.

I'm not enough of fan of MadVR to do DTM. I had a comparison session about a week ago and I liked where Lumagen DTM was at more than image I was getting with MadVR DTM. It's also a hell of lot easier to alter the Lumagen on the fly than bring up a big MadVR settings box on the screen.
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post #3363 of 3471 Old 09-08-2019, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
The fan on low laser is quieter than your x970 on low lamp. The fan on mid laser is quieter than your fan on x970 on high lamp but not as quiet as your x970 on low. Although if you install the front fan deflectors and the projector is behind you it may be about the same. Also if you keep your room cold, the fans cycel on the rs4500 so it often slows down and goes quiet even on mid laser. The darker the movie, the more the laser dimming is used, the quieter the fan gets. I sit 7 feet in front of my RS4500 and can never hear mid laser during content.

For mounting your projector, you'll be ale to use the full width of the 17:9 panel for your scope screen so this will help you with being far enough back to fill your screen. The throw will be tight. I'd go look in the RS4500 manual to be sure. The RS4500 and NX9 will have similar lens requirements. So you'll either have or avoid the problem the same in either case.
I sit about 3' in front of mine. Do the deflectors come with it or separate purchase?

I used the projector calc app and it says minimum throw for my 138" scope is 13'6" so given I'd be 14'8" at the minimum I think I should be good not needing to move my mount to accomodate.

I am concerned about the weight for ceiling mounting. You can see my HT area in my basement (one end of a big games room) where my Chief 390 dual-joist mount holds my x970R.
It's lag bolted into the 2x4s that make up that boxed in area in my basement's ceiling around air ducts and a steel beam.
The house is of newer construction, so it's a pretty solidly built ceiling, and I've noticed no bowing or anything with this projector.
But of course the RS4500 weighs almost twice as much.
Any thoughts?
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post #3364 of 3471 Old 09-08-2019, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
I sit about 3' in front of mine. Do the deflectors come with it or separate purchase?

I used the projector calc app and it says minimum throw for my 138" scope is 13'6" so given I'd be 14'8" at the minimum I think I should be good not needing to move my mount to accomodate.

I am concerned about the weight for ceiling mounting. You can see my HT area in my basement (one end of a big games room) where my Chief 390 dual-joist mount holds my x970R.
It's lag bolted into the 2x4s that make up that boxed in area in my basement's ceiling around air ducts and a steel beam.
The house is of newer construction, so it's a pretty solidly built ceiling, and I've noticed no bowing or anything with this projector.
But of course the RS4500 weighs almost twice as much.
Any thoughts?
The deflectors come with it. And your framing should easily hold 85 lbs. I have a friend - Joe C - had the same concerns. He did a chin up on the mount. No problems.

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post #3365 of 3471 Old 09-08-2019, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
I sit about 3' in front of mine. Do the deflectors come with it or separate purchase?

I used the projector calc app and it says minimum throw for my 138" scope is 13'6" so given I'd be 14'8" at the minimum I think I should be good not needing to move my mount to accomodate.

I am concerned about the weight for ceiling mounting. You can see my HT area in my basement (one end of a big games room) where my Chief 390 dual-joist mount holds my x970R.
It's lag bolted into the 2x4s that make up that boxed in area in my basement's ceiling around air ducts and a steel beam.
The house is of newer construction, so it's a pretty solidly built ceiling, and I've noticed no bowing or anything with this projector.
But of course the RS4500 weighs almost twice as much.
Any thoughts?
A single 1/4" Grade 5 lag bolt, in a configuration like this, will fail at roughly 13,000 lbs. Even 1/8" lag screws (well down into "numbered" screw sizes) will have a shear strength of over 3,000 pounds. 85 pounds is nothing.

I believe the dead load of the average 1/4" lag is roughly 400# tear-out in a stud. So multiply that by the number of bolts or increase bolt size for exponential weight benefit.

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post #3366 of 3471 Old 09-08-2019, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
A single 1/4" Grade 5 lag bolt, in a configuration like this, will fail at roughly 13,000 lbs. Even 1/8" lag screws (well down into "numbered" screw sizes) will have a shear strength of over 3,000 pounds. 85 pounds is nothing.

I believe the dead load of the average 1/4" lag is roughly 400# tear-out in a stud. So multiply that by the number of bolts or increase bolt size for exponential weight benefit.
Thanks for the info, I too am sure it would be fine. Amazing to think something of that value to just be suspended like that.

So you can see my room in those pictures (added another from further back). The basement is lightly painted, but I've made it a bit darker with black carpet in that screen area. There is not back wall close to the screen, so I also benefit from no reflections from that. Back wall is about 30' to the left of the ping pong table. I also added a 30' long curtain that runs just left of the ping pong table parallel to it so I can draw it during the day and block all the light that would come from the open stair well and basement windows on that back wall far to the left.

Finally, I moved my seating up to be just outside of one screen width (the closest I could move it). The blue couch in front of the projector (and brown chair) used to be further back by about 2-3'.

So, my question is, given all of this and what you can see, do you think it's a dark enough and that I'm close enough to really benefit switching up from my x970R to the RS4500?
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post #3367 of 3471 Old 09-08-2019, 07:51 PM
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Thanks for the info, I too am sure it would be fine. Amazing to think something of that value to just be suspended like that.

So you can see my room in those pictures (added another from further back). The basement is lightly painted, but I've made it a bit darker with black carpet in that screen area. There is not back wall close to the screen, so I also benefit from no reflections from that. Back wall is about 30' to the left of the ping pong table. I also added a 30' long curtain that runs just left of the ping pong table parallel to it so I can draw it during the day and block all the light that would come from the open stair well and basement windows on that back wall far to the left.

Finally, I moved my seating up to be just outside of one screen width (the closest I could move it). The blue couch in front of the projector (and brown chair) used to be further back by about 2-3'.

So, my question is, given all of this and what you can see, do you think it's a dark enough and that I'm close enough to really benefit switching up from my x970R to the RS4500?
The darkness of the room has no impact on this. You are switching from an x970R, which is higher contrast and lower black floor than any of the projectors you're considering. If anything, the imperfections in your room will make the loss of contrast in the switch less noticeable.

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post #3368 of 3471 Old 09-08-2019, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JOE-C View Post
I came from an RS500 and the 4500 plus the custom Chief mount is close to 100 lbs ( I think the 3000 would be about 40 or so lbs lighter).
That is definitely a concern for ceiling mounting it. If you have attic access that will be a huge help.
I was able to go into my attic and reinforce the cross beams and changed the wood bolts ( holding the Chief mount) to threaded bolts with washers and nuts.
Since I’m in California I also attached 2 wires to the Chief mount and connected those to the joists in the attic to help the unit not come down in a possible earthquake.
As far as fan noise- I run my 4500 in mid laser for everything I watch and the unit is mounted almost overhead to where I sit and the fan noise has not bothered me at all.
I too considered the 3000 v 4500. I saw the 3000 at CEDIA least year and the 4500 at Craig’s house a few times.
The 3000 was very nice but It’s been reported that the lumen output may not be more than the 2000 or even less in some cases and it will decrease over time. The only advantage the 3000 has as far as picture quality is concerned is better 3D ( if that is any concern at all to you).
I had the DCR lens in waiting as I had purchased it before hand on a B stock sale.
I agree with others here in saying that once you start watching a laser projector it’s hard to watch a lamp based one.
Since adding the Lumagen and having Kris Deering calibrate it the picture is incredible.
I’m extremely happy that I bought the 4500 and like others I expect to have it for the next 5 plus years.
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Most of us have this ceiling mounted. 85 pounds isnt *that* heavy. Mine is shelf ceiling mounted because I swapped out so many projectors last 18 months I didnt want to deal with mounts again. (See my avatar).




The NX9 has no "mid lamp". It's high lamp or low lamp. You will get about 1500 lumens low lamp on brand new bulb and about 1850 lumens mid laser. The lamp bulb will drop to about 1300 lumens if you leave it on low and last that way for a good 2500 hours. The laser basically won't drop for years. If you want more light out of the lamp based projector you're screwed. If you want more light out of the laser you can kick it into high.

I'd say start with an RS4500 and you can always add a lens later for more light. You can't add a laser later to an NX9.


The RS4500 has a far better dimming system. The moving parts in the dynamic iris scare me after having a projector with broken iris and also all the reports of broken iris in the RS640 threads. Brightness aside, the RS4500 actually has deeper blacks and a better picture than the NX9.



Thanks for the info guys!! I guess now its just a matter of how much further back the projector has to be from the screen for a 125" diagonal 2.35 screen. I also have to worry about the wall behind the projector since it may only be 3-4 inches away. Oh, and let's not forget that the 4500 is almost twice the price of the RS3000.
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post #3369 of 3471 Old 09-08-2019, 11:13 PM
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Official JVC RS4500/Z1 Owner's Thread

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Originally Posted by silver700 View Post
Thanks for the info guys!! I guess now its just a matter of how much further back the projector has to be from the screen for a 125" diagonal 2.35 screen. I also have to worry about the wall behind the projector since it may only be 3-4 inches away. Oh, and let's not forget that the 4500 is almost twice the price of the RS3000.


The rs4500 manual says you need at least 8” clearance behind it for cooling. See screenshot with the other clearance requirements. If you keep your room cool are these hard and fast rules ?




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post #3370 of 3471 Old 09-14-2019, 11:33 PM
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Hey guys,

Does anyone know how tall the Z1 is with the feet removed?

I ask because for various reasons, I now have a slightly lower ceiling in my cinema room (247cm) which gives me approx 23cm clearance height-wise for a projector.

Don't worry about air circulation as I have planned dedicated extraction fans and a cutout above the projector which adds a further 20cm for space, but that space doesn't extend for the full length of the projector, so I need to know if I can fit the height within the 23cm.

Cheers

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post #3371 of 3471 Old 09-15-2019, 01:18 AM
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Hey guys,

Does anyone know how tall the Z1 is with the feet removed?

I ask because for various reasons, I now have a slightly lower ceiling in my cinema room (247cm) which gives me approx 23cm clearance height-wise for a projector.

Don't worry about air circulation as I have planned dedicated extraction fans and a cutout above the projector which adds a further 20cm for space, but that space doesn't extend for the full length of the projector, so I need to know if I can fit the height within the 23cm.

Cheers
Feet are 20mm, so the unit should be 215mm without - page 77 of the manual has all the dims.

http://www33.jvckenwood.com/pdfs/B5A-2008-12.pdf

I know you have said you have the ventilation sorted, but be aware that the top metal strip on the PJ is a heat sink and does get hot, so needs some airflow.
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post #3372 of 3471 Old 09-15-2019, 01:45 AM
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Just broke 1000 hours today

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
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Just broke 1000 hours today
Not even "Run In" yet...
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Just broke 1000 hours today
Mark,

Hours since October 5th 2018.




T.

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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Feet are 20mm, so the unit should be 215mm without - page 77 of the manual has all the dims.

http://www33.jvckenwood.com/pdfs/B5A-2008-12.pdf

I know you have said you have the ventilation sorted, but be aware that the top metal strip on the PJ is a heat sink and does get hot, so needs some airflow.
Thanks for this. I've had a whole concrete block removed from the ceiling to make space for exactly this reason, and planned a dedicated extractor fan & even air conditioning inbound. The problem is that the hole from that is only 60x60x20 - so for 12cm of the 72cm length of the projector (6cm either side or whichever makes most sense) I'll have 23cm height. For the rest I'll have 43cm height.

Sounds like it just might work! Cheers

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post #3377 of 3471 Old 09-15-2019, 04:16 PM
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Now that Cedia is over, the RS4500 is and will remain the flagship 4K projector in the JVC line up for the foreseeable future.
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Now that Cedia is over, the RS4500 is and will remain the flagship 4K projector in the JVC line up for the foreseeable future.


Foreseeable = till next CEDIA ?!



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post #3379 of 3471 Old 09-15-2019, 07:09 PM
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Foreseeable = till next CEDIA ?!


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It sounded like it could be longer than that. I don't really care myself, since I plan to keep mine for a number of years.
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post #3380 of 3471 Old 09-15-2019, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
Now if I can make my mind up about the NX9+DCR vs. the RS4500.

I wanted this purchase to be one that lasts me for a decade, which is why I wanted laser over bulb.

But I've heard the NX9's shadow detail is superior to the RS4500 even though the laser dimming can get true blacks darker.

ON the other other hand, I'm not sure if I want to muck around with an a-lens all the time as I do watch a lot of mixed content.
I’️m not sure where you keep hearing all this weird stuff. Almost nothing about the nx9 performance is better than the rs4500. Its lesser than across the board. The units all have similar shadow detail if calibrated correctly so that the black is set properly. Ask @woofer more he had an nx9 with an rs4500 for several months in his house together.

Most the time people cite good shadow detail to reference a raised black floor. The dlps have great shadow detail also but the blacks are bright grey. Often times this isn’️t how the image is even suppose to look. There’️s been extensive discussions on this in other threads where javs has pasted actual content from the Blu-ray media to show someone that says his projector has better shadow detail that the image wasn’️t suppose to have that kind of shadow detail with washed out blacks.

In the last 4 years I’️ve gone through 6 projectors. The rs4500 is finally one that is so good I think I’️ll never upgrade until it dies.
Ive seen you say this stuff repeated times now but I have to say I disagree with your assessment of the NX9 vs the 4500. I’ve owned both, have reviewed both and have calibrated a very large number of both. They are both excellent in many regards but the NX9 has some obvious advantages over the 4500 in both picture quality and usage cases. It has much higher native contrast compared to the 4500 and this is easy to see with many scenes near black or just above where the laser dimming can’t compensate as much for the lower native of the 4500. The 4500’s dimming is also too aggressive in its best operating mode leading to many instances where the image is completely blacked out when it shouldn’t be. HDMI synch time is greatly improved on the NX9 as well. Then there is the wider gamut afforded by the filter that only takes about 10% of the light output on the 9 vs 40% on the 4500. Brightness is only better on the 4500 if you can use high laser though it will retain brightness longer.

I do notice the better sharpness at the pixel level with the 4500 at the screen but not from normal viewing distances. JVC thinks this has to do with the alignment of the panels in the light path.

Again both of these projectors are absolutely fantastic, but I know for ME if I was offered to have either for free but could only have one I would pick the 9 right now. It has more pros compared to the 4500 IMHO for both picture and usability. But I surely wouldn’t feel bad using the 4500 either!
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post #3381 of 3471 Old 09-16-2019, 12:26 AM
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Ive seen you say this stuff repeated times now but I have to say I disagree with your assessment of the NX9 vs the 4500. I’ve owned both, have reviewed both and have calibrated a very large number of both. They are both excellent in many regards but the NX9 has some obvious advantages over the 4500 in both picture quality and usage cases. It has much higher native contrast compared to the 4500 and this is easy to see with many scenes near black or just above where the laser dimming can’t compensate as much for the lower native of the 4500. The 4500’s dimming is also too aggressive in its best operating mode leading to many instances where the image is completely blacked out when it shouldn’t be. HDMI synch time is greatly improved on the NX9 as well. Then there is the wider gamut afforded by the filter that only takes about 10% of the light output on the 9 vs 40% on the 4500. Brightness is only better on the 4500 if you can use high laser though it will retain brightness longer.

I do notice the better sharpness at the pixel level with the 4500 at the screen but not from normal viewing distances. JVC thinks this has to do with the alignment of the panels in the light path.

Again both of these projectors are absolutely fantastic, but I know for ME if I was offered to have either for free but could only have one I would pick the 9 right now. It has more pros compared to the 4500 IMHO for both picture and usability. But I surely wouldn’t feel bad using the 4500 either!
Would your choice for the NX9 be the same if both projectors had a similar street price Kris? If the NX9 has a laser light source it would be a very compelling purchase, but I couldn't go back to a lamp now and suffer the significant brightness drop after a few hundred hours of high lamp.
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post #3382 of 3471 Old 09-16-2019, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Again both of these projectors are absolutely fantastic, but I know for ME if I was offered to have either for free but could only have one I would pick the 9 right now. It has more pros compared to the 4500 IMHO for both picture and usability. But I surely wouldn’t feel bad using the 4500 either!
Interesting different peoples perspective and preferences.. I am in the opposite camp..... i have the Z1/RS4500 and have had several NX9,s ..."MY" preference always ends up being to the Z1/RS4500.

I could have/own the NX9 tomorrow if need be, but again for "ME" this would be a backwards move image quality wise.
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post #3383 of 3471 Old 09-16-2019, 12:50 AM
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I don't really care myself, since I plan to keep mine for a number of years.
I will second the above comment...
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post #3384 of 3471 Old 09-16-2019, 12:51 AM
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Kris, do you like the DCR lens, are you using one in your own theater ?

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post #3385 of 3471 Old 09-16-2019, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Ive seen you say this stuff repeated times now but I have to say I disagree with your assessment of the NX9 vs the 4500. I’ve owned both, have reviewed both and have calibrated a very large number of both. They are both excellent in many regards but the NX9 has some obvious advantages over the 4500 in both picture quality and usage cases. It has much higher native contrast compared to the 4500 and this is easy to see with many scenes near black or just above where the laser dimming can’t compensate as much for the lower native of the 4500. The 4500’s dimming is also too aggressive in its best operating mode leading to many instances where the image is completely blacked out when it shouldn’t be. HDMI synch time is greatly improved on the NX9 as well. Then there is the wider gamut afforded by the filter that only takes about 10% of the light output on the 9 vs 40% on the 4500. Brightness is only better on the 4500 if you can use high laser though it will retain brightness longer.

I do notice the better sharpness at the pixel level with the 4500 at the screen but not from normal viewing distances. JVC thinks this has to do with the alignment of the panels in the light path.

Again both of these projectors are absolutely fantastic, but I know for ME if I was offered to have either for free but could only have one I would pick the 9 right now. It has more pros compared to the 4500 IMHO for both picture and usability. But I surely wouldn’t feel bad using the 4500 either!
Hey Kris this is quite interesting that this is your perspective. When you were here we played that star wars movie (ep 7?) where the ship comes across the planet in the intro and the laser basically shuts off. Since I swapped my projector and have this new one, I have tested scenes like that and on auto 2 (the more aggressive dimming mode) it never shuts off there any longer. Also, possibly, this is because I made some changes to my gamma settings by increasing picture tone and decreasing dark level. This had a big impact on star field type scenes where the black floor was still really good but the stars popped more and the laser stayed on. And the black floor is still superior to where the NX9 was when we had it here. If you ever make your way up here again I'd love to do a side by side with your NX9

I agree with the sync time thing, but really that shouldn't be an impact to anyone. If the player is set right, it should kick into 4k/23.976 mode on load and stay that way as videos are started / stopped. Then the projector doesn't need to resync each time video is started / stopped.
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post #3386 of 3471 Old 09-16-2019, 10:28 AM
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Guys,

As I was looking around on AVS I just saw something that got my immediate attention.

CEDIA 2019: Impressions & Observations

J.Mike Ferrara

Post #82

Quote:
Likewise JVC just introduced HDR10 in a recent firmware update for the 4500.
JVC has no plans for an HDR10+ update for the 4500,
but the rep winked his eye and said something better is in the works.
The 4500 is still very much their flagship and can’t keep them in stock.
Link below if your interested,
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ul...l#post58552838

I'm actually Surprised no RS4500 member has said or commented anything regarding that post.
I'm thinking it's another {Top-Secret} so Craig or Mike or any of the other Pros on AVS are SWORN-to-Silence !!!

Wouldn't it be great if none of us remaining members that have the RS4500 didn't have to spend $10K US Dollars for the Lumagen and or new ENVY ???

Speaking for myself I'm 100% excited about anything New that JVC does in regards to further improving the JVC RS4500.

Terry
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post #3387 of 3471 Old 09-16-2019, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post
Guys,

As I was looking around on AVS I just saw something that got my immediate attention.

CEDIA 2019: Impressions & Observations

J.Mike Ferrara

Post #82



Link below if your interested,
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ul...l#post58552838

I'm actually Surprised no RS4500 member has said or commented anything regarding that post.
I'm thinking it's another {Top-Secret} so Craig or Mike or any of the other Pros on AVS are SWORN-to-Silence !!!


Wouldn't it be great if none of us remaining members that have the RS4500 didn't have to spend $10K US Dollars for the Lumagen and or new ENVY ???

Speaking for myself I'm 100% excited about anything New that JVC does in regards to further improving the JVC RS4500.

Terry
The only thing JVC has said is that they aren't sure if they can add the new DTM feature to the RS4500 or not. So who knows.
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post #3388 of 3471 Old 09-16-2019, 04:42 PM
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The only thing JVC has said is that they aren't sure if they can add the new DTM feature to the RS4500 or not. So who knows.
If they can, that would be quite a deal for RS4500/non Lumagen owners!
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post #3389 of 3471 Old 09-17-2019, 09:15 AM
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If they can, that would be quite a deal for RS4500/non Lumagen owners!
yes it would and myself whom just bought a Rad Pro would feel a bit downtrodden, however i am not so sure JVC will replicate the performance of the Lumagen and the Lumagen is very future proof w/ it's FPGA processor.

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post #3390 of 3471 Old 09-17-2019, 10:38 AM
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Radiance also offers many other bells and whistles beyond DTM which make it very useful (mandatory for me - I have two - one for use for TV).

My cinema: The Cave!
My kit: 15' 2.35:1 Screen Research CP2 4-way mask, JVC Z1, Lumagen Pro, Meridian 861/621/7x5500/2xSW5500
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