Official JVC RS4500/Z1 Owner's Thread - Page 123 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3661 of 3870 Old 11-21-2019, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baseball0618 View Post
I have a lumagen and DCR Paladin lens set up and calibrated by Craig Rounds. Craig was the one that mentioned that the number is closer to 80% DCI/P3 coverage w/out the filter. You are not understanding me properly Mike, please go back and read my response again. I have two setups for viewing HDR material. One is medium laser w/ the HDR (no filter) color profile. The other is using high laser w/ the BT2020 color profile utilizing the filter. I do not notice a decrease in brightness between the two modes b/c I am using high laser w/ the filter and medium without, hence the brightness is on par. Follow me?
I know of several measurements of the HDR mode (no filter) and all of them were quite a bit higher. Between 87% and 90%. I missed that you were changing from medium to high laser.
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post #3662 of 3870 Old 11-21-2019, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by SSnarski View Post
This would go to Mike G. as well - What is a quick way to tell if the color filter is in place or not - Chad B completed all my calibrations - and he is very secretive of his work - does great work with both the audio and video - highly recommended.
Look at the mode you are using when playing an HDR disc. If it says HDR, then that is without filter. If it says BT2020, then it is with filter. I am pretty sure Chad would set it up without filter in place, unless you requested to use the filter.
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post #3663 of 3870 Old 11-21-2019, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by silver700 View Post
Mike how does the filter get "engaged" on the RS4500? I cannot find that anywhere on the manual. I have read where you can hear the filter move in place but how do you know if it is in place or not?
Under color profile, select BT2020 and that will engage the filter. You would only use this with HDR sources.
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post #3664 of 3870 Old 11-21-2019, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Look at the mode you are using when playing an HDR disc. If it says HDR, then that is without filter. If it says BT2020, then it is with filter. I am pretty sure Chad would set it up without filter in place, unless you requested to use the filter.

Thanks Mike,

NO, i did not request to use or not use the color filter - I told Chad B make the projector display the best possible HDR picture that it could with what i had for him to work with.

That was the simple answer i was looking for, Being this is my first ever projector i know very little in regards to projectors, This is why Chad B was called out to calibrate everything, since that time, i tend not to tinker with much, the only changes i have made is to the Lumagen PRO - DTM - what a difference all those updates have made, couldn't be happier with the results.

Again, just curiosity and I was just trying to figure out what Chad B did to some degree so i could compare to everyone else's thinking.
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post #3665 of 3870 Old 11-22-2019, 01:31 PM
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I will say ( again ) that the current price of the RS4500 in the US is a bargain for the picture / projector you get for the money.
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post #3666 of 3870 Old 11-22-2019, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by blake View Post
Why can’t you mention street price in the forums ? Seems like an odd rule ...
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...als-forum.html
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post #3667 of 3870 Old 11-23-2019, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
Mark i know u are a gamer that is why i m really interested in ur opinion, i m a huge gamer mainly on a high end PC.
The LK970 is excellent for games , its super bright and sharp and i use it on high lazer but i miss the deeper blacks in games.
With the Z1 i know u mostly use it at mid lazer , do u find it lacking in brightness while gaming or u do get that pop from it.
The Z1 is mainly a combination of both my projectors, i m kind of used to the high lumens i get while gaming and i m afraid i might find it a little dim in comparison , but again the huge contrast difference might make up for the lost in brightness.
I play games on Mid laser. I have toggled between mid and high and the additional light on high isn't really that much of an improvement. The boost moving from low to mid is huge. I feel like games pop really well for me on mid laser. But if you're use to an LK970 no matter what, its not going to be as bright. I find that you get to a certain level of brightness and your eye's irises just adjust and it all feels the same again.

Also, and i guess it depends what games you play, but most games I play are generally bright. The only time good contrast comes into play is during loading screens. So I get pure black loading screens not bright grey. But on actual bright content, which is most the game, you probably wouldn't notice a difference.

The LK970 looks outright blurry to me on 4K desktop with 100% DPI scaling. It looks great sharpness in 4K movies. I wonder how it will compare in 4K games especially if any have small text. The LK970 is around $3K at benq direct now I was tempted to get one to play with just for games.
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post #3668 of 3870 Old 11-23-2019, 03:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
Mark i know u are a gamer that is why i m really interested in ur opinion, i m a huge gamer mainly on a high end PC.
The LK970 is excellent for games , its super bright and sharp and i use it on high lazer but i miss the deeper blacks in games.
With the Z1 i know u mostly use it at mid lazer , do u find it lacking in brightness while gaming or u do get that pop from it.
The Z1 is mainly a combination of both my projectors, i m kind of used to the high lumens i get while gaming and i m afraid i might find it a little dim in comparison , but again the huge contrast difference might make up for the lost in brightness.
I play games on Mid laser. I have toggled between mid and high and the additional light on high isn't really that much of an improvement. The boost moving from low to mid is huge. I feel like games pop really well for me on mid laser. But if you're use to an LK970 no matter what, its not going to be as bright. I find that you get to a certain level of brightness and your eye's irises just adjust and it all feels the same again.

Also, and i guess it depends what games you play, but most games I play are generally bright. The only time good contrast comes into play is during loading screens. So I get pure black loading screens not bright grey. But on actual bright content, which is most the game, you probably wouldn't notice a difference.

The LK970 looks outright blurry to me on 4K desktop with 100% DPI scaling. It looks great sharpness in 4K movies. I wonder how it will compare in 4K games especially if any have small text. The LK970 is around $3K at benq direct now I was tempted to get one to play with just for games.
I play most curent titles but not competetive multiplayer games.

Yes Mark , the LK970 with 100% dpi desktop use is a little blurry since its not native 4k, i use its at 150% and its super clear, in games its also razor sharp and with that brightness its sometimes look too sharp, if u can get it this cheap it is a no brainer since u are a gamer, its excellent for games, i got mine for less than 5k and thought its a steal, also high laser isnt very loud so u can always keep it at that. I try mid laser sometimes but i like the pop more of high
And u can save ur Z1 lazer hours if u are a heavy desktop user, but if fade to black at loading screen is important to u it will look grey on the LK.

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post #3669 of 3870 Old 11-23-2019, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
I play most curent titles but not competetive multiplayer games.

Yes Mark , the LK970 with 100% dpi desktop use is a little blurry since its not native 4k, i use its at 150% and its super clear, in games its also razor sharp and with that brightness its sometimes look too sharp, if u can get it this cheap it is a no brainer since u are a gamer, its excellent for games, i got mine for less than 5k and thought its a steal, also high laser isnt very loud so u can always keep it at that. I try mid laser sometimes but i like the pop more of high
And u can save ur Z1 lazer hours if u are a heavy desktop user, but if fade to black at loading screen is important to u it will look grey on the LK.
Yea, it's very tempting to grab. I saw a lot of rainbows on my friend's LK970 though. I'm not sure if that would bother me. I remember seeing them but not really being annoyed by them. I imagine 150% DPI will look great. I think that nearly matches native resolution on the LK970. i play a lot of games that have super tiny text over characters names as you are far away and the text gets larger as you get closer. I'm worried that something like this may not look as sharp as my RS4500. Having another projector take the strain off my RS4500's laser does sound good though I bet the brightness is good enough for me on ECO mode even.
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post #3670 of 3870 Old 11-23-2019, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
In 16 years of having a home theater, none of my friends have ever built one. Two have bought projectors. Its sort of an unusual hobby. Most folks just buy a TV. Hell, I have more friends that have built wine cellars, which can easily cost as much as a home theater ( by the time you fill it ). But I don't think that has anything to do with not being able to post prices on this forum.
My perspective: (1) The fact that most (99%) of my friends don't build theaters has ZERO to do with "hiding" prices. Many of them have a net worth/income far in excess of mine and could easily afford one, regardless of the price. Just not their deal. And according to the dealer/integrator I work with, it is becoming "not their deal" for a far larger percent their clients; (2) That prices are not allowed publicly on AVS sure doesn't mean they are not available with just a smidgen of effort via google - or even a PM on AVS; (2) And while there may be no bigger "conspiracy theorist" on the planet, I don't at all buy into the theory of the suggested reasoning why pricing is not easily accessible (which I find not to be accurate at all); (4), If, in 2019, someone is silly enough to pay list for audio equipment, cars, boats, high end watches, TVs, projectors, that is THEIR problem; (5) And even if the suggested "conspiracy" is accurate, how is that significantly different than other industries - like automobiles?

Clearly, YMMV.
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post #3671 of 3870 Old 11-23-2019, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
My perspective: (1) The fact that most (99%) of my friends don't build theaters has ZERO to do with "hiding" prices. Many of them have a net worth/income far in excess of mine and could easily afford one, regardless of the price. Just not their deal. And according to the dealer/integrator I work with, it is becoming "not their deal" for a far larger percent their clients; (2) That prices are not allowed publicly on AVS sure doesn't mean they are not available with just a smidgen of effort via google - or even a PM on AVS; (2) And while there may be no bigger "conspiracy theorist" on the planet, I don't at all buy into the theory of the suggested reasoning why pricing is not easily accessible (which I find not to be accurate at all); (4), If, in 2019, someone is silly enough to pay list for audio equipment, cars, boats, high end watches, TVs, projectors, that is THEIR problem; (5) And even if the suggested "conspiracy" is accurate, how is that significantly different than other industries - like automobiles?

Clearly, YMMV.
You pretty much said everything before I posted the same. Nobody hides the price of expensive fine wine, but very few people build a temperature controlled wine cellar like I have. It's another niche hobby like having a full blown home theater.
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post #3672 of 3870 Old 11-23-2019, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
In 16 years of having a home theater, none of my friends have ever built one. Two have bought projectors. Its sort of an unusual hobby. Most folks just buy a TV. Hell, I have more friends that have built wine cellars, which can easily cost as much as a home theater ( by the time you fill it ). But I don't think that has anything to do with not being able to post prices on this forum.
Hey Bro Craig,

I'm 74 years old and have had an actual Custom-Dedicated H/T for probably at least 30-years in this home.

You know how many people I know that has a Dedicated-Home-Theater ???

Not even 1-Person ...



Terry
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post #3673 of 3870 Old 11-23-2019, 12:28 PM
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The owners Do not want the tech forum/threads to focus on street pricing and where to buy. We have a deals forum for those discussions.

Please keep posts related to tech only. If you have an issue with that rule, contact the AVS admin...otherwise let's move on.
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post #3674 of 3870 Old 11-23-2019, 01:04 PM
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Just recentley upgraded the 1080TI on my HTPC to a 2080TI ...i can now "nearly" max out madVR,s quality settings.

madVR and its HSTM combined with the Z1/RS4500 provides an absolutley "Awesome" image......best i have seen, so VERY happy .
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post #3675 of 3870 Old 11-23-2019, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by woofer View Post
Just recentley upgraded the 1080TI on my HTPC to a 2080TI ...i can now "nearly" max out madVR,s quality settings.

madVR and its HSTM combined with the Z1/RS4500 provides an absolutley "Awesome" image......best i have seen, so VERY happy .
Cool, how is the front LCD implemented - second screen VGA out from graphics card?
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post #3676 of 3870 Old 11-23-2019, 01:15 PM
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Cool, how is the front LCD implemented - second screen VGA out from graphics card?
Yes..
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post #3677 of 3870 Old 11-23-2019, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woofer View Post
Just recentley upgraded the 1080TI on my HTPC to a 2080TI ...i can now "nearly" max out madVR,s quality settings.

madVR and its HSTM combined with the Z1/RS4500 provides an absolutley "Awesome" image......best i have seen, so VERY happy .
Woofer i too have 1080ti , did u feel the 2080ti gave u better picture quality? i really cant see any difference from my current settings and with max settings with my face up to the screen with 4k hdr .

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post #3678 of 3870 Old 11-23-2019, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
Woofer i too have 1080ti , did u feel the 2080ti gave u better picture quality? i really cant see any difference from my current settings and with max settings with my face up to the screen with 4k hdr .
Yes, it did enable me to achieve better pic quality. due to being able to run higher settings.

I am running some settings now ( comfortably) with both UHD and 1080P that would just KILL my 1080TI .

Even the 2080TI though on 16:9 ( @Manni01 ,s Pacific Rim torutre test) and my current settings will push the 2080TI to 36-38ms render times.
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post #3679 of 3870 Old 11-24-2019, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by woofer View Post
Yes, it did enable me to achieve better pic quality. due to being able to run higher settings.

I am running some settings now ( comfortably) with both UHD and 1080P that would just KILL my 1080TI .

Even the 2080TI though on 16:9 ( @Manni01 ,s Pacific Rim torutre test) and my current settings will push the 2080TI to 36-38ms render times.
What are the key settings you feel pushed the picture over the top? Remember you recently reinstalled windows to troubleshoot an issue. It's possible your 1080TI was also running less than its full potential as well
I have a 1080TI and as long as I'm running 24fps content either 1080p or 4K I have as much stuff maxed out as I could imagine. The issue comes in when I try to upscale something like shark tank (720p, 30fps) then I have to make a lot of compromises because the required render time moves up to 32ms. My 24fps content I use double and double again upscaling with some ring filters and those are fine.

For 4K, I don't do any upscaling or processing so the power is dedicated solely for tone mapping which seems to be far easier on the card than my 1080p upscaling + processing settings. Those are almost maxed out with the only concession is running NGU sharp high instead of NGU Sharp Very High. However, while I can tell a difference between NGU Medium and NGU High, I cannot tell the difference between NGU high and NGU very high anyway.
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post #3680 of 3870 Old 11-24-2019, 12:37 PM
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What are the key settings you feel pushed the picture over the top?
Mark .......sent you an email so not to turn this into a madVR settings thread
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post #3681 of 3870 Old 11-24-2019, 06:39 PM
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What are the key settings you feel pushed the picture over the top? Remember you recently reinstalled windows to troubleshoot an issue. It's possible your 1080TI was also running less than its full potential as well
I have a 1080TI and as long as I'm running 24fps content either 1080p or 4K I have as much stuff maxed out as I could imagine. The issue comes in when I try to upscale something like shark tank (720p, 30fps) then I have to make a lot of compromises because the required render time moves up to 32ms. My 24fps content I use double and double again upscaling with some ring filters and those are fine.

For 4K, I don't do any upscaling or processing so the power is dedicated solely for tone mapping which seems to be far easier on the card than my 1080p upscaling + processing settings. Those are almost maxed out with the only concession is running NGU sharp high instead of NGU Sharp Very High. However, while I can tell a difference between NGU Medium and NGU High, I cannot tell the difference between NGU high and NGU very high anyway.
yes Mark i m in the same boat as u, that is why i asked woofer if he saw a better picture with the 2080ti , for 4k i practically have everything maxed except upscaling since i dont need it and i dont see much difference if i lower the settings a little bit, i thought about getting a 2080ti but the new cards ( 3080ti? ) are not far off and should be pretty powerfull.
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post #3682 of 3870 Old 11-25-2019, 12:45 AM
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yes Mark i m in the same boat as u, that is why i asked woofer if he saw a better picture with the 2080ti , for 4k i practically have everything maxed except upscaling since i dont need it and i dont see much difference if i lower the settings a little bit, i thought about getting a 2080ti but the new cards ( 3080ti? ) are not far off and should be pretty powerfull.
I "guarantee" you will not run the settings i am currentley using with the 2080TI on the 1080TI!

I sent Mark some settings to play with.....
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post #3683 of 3870 Old 11-25-2019, 12:49 AM
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I "guarantee" you will not run the settings i am currentley using with the 2080TI on the 1080TI!

I sent Mark some settings to play with.....
I looked at the settings (but didnt try them yet) and think that is very unlikely that I can run these like this without some additional compromises. I am not sure how much difference some of them will make, although the image enhancements may be nice (I like similar enhancements on 1080p upscaling).

One thing, woofer, and I mentioned it in email. But I found enhance detail > 1.3 started to raise the black floor. I noticed this a while back when I was trying to figure out what happened on my interstellar scene when I was demoing it to someone.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #3684 of 3870 Old 11-25-2019, 01:11 AM
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I looked at the settings (but didnt try them yet) and think that is very unlikely that I can run these like this without some additional compromises. I am not sure how much difference some of them will make, although the image enhancements may be nice (I like similar enhancements on 1080p upscaling).

One thing, woofer, and I mentioned it in email. But I found enhance detail > 1.3 started to raise the black floor. I noticed this a while back when I was trying to figure out what happened on my interstellar scene when I was demoing it to someone.
AS i said via email, on Pristine exaples of UHD material, these settings do extract the last few percent of image quality ..... i have spent many many hours with countless scenes and the improvement is there to see.

It once again emphasize,s just how good the Z1/RS4500 is at rendering incredible detail .. OH!!! and obviously not to forget madVR which makes it all possible.
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post #3685 of 3870 Old 11-25-2019, 02:22 AM
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yes Mark i m in the same boat as u, that is why i asked woofer if he saw a better picture with the 2080ti , for 4k i practically have everything maxed except upscaling since i dont need it and i dont see much difference if i lower the settings a little bit, i thought about getting a 2080ti but the new cards ( 3080ti? ) are not far off and should be pretty powerfull.

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AS i said via email, on Pristine exaples of UHD material, these settings do extract the last few percent of image quality ..... i have spent many many hours with countless scenes and the improvement is there to see.

It once again emphasize,s just how good the Z1/RS4500 is at rendering incredible detail .. OH!!! and obviously not to forget madVR which makes it all possible.
I messed with your settings. First, I do like them.

The superres 4x is just out for the 1080ti. Even 2x was questionable. I can run your 4K settings exactly as is with only exception being the super res option. I get 32ms render times this way.
Upscaling is another matter. Your settings render about 42ms over here. To get it in line on 1080ti, I had to disable superes, disable crispen and thin edges, and disable activate anti-bloating filter. The rest of the settings including NGU Very high run fine.

Woofer, you may try "add grain" strength 1 and see what you think. I've always had this. It's an extremely light grain addition but it helps remove some of the over baked look of all the filtering in a unique way in my opinion. I had add grain on during my tests. I don't think it's very costly but I suppose if it is, it could account for one of two of the options I had to disable. I only run add grain on image upscaling refinement not processing. So it does not run on native 4K material.

Tnaik4, In my opinion the difference in these particular options being on / off is small (not enough to warrant a card upgrade this round). I think I'm likely sitting out the 20x0 series and perhaps also its successor. At this point, I can still run every game maxed out at 4K on the 1080ti - probably mainly because I always keep anti aliasing off (you dont really need it at 4K resolution and it blurs the whole screen a little).
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Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #3686 of 3870 Old 11-25-2019, 07:25 AM
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Hi everyone, a huge thanks to Mike G. for setting me on the right path and hooking me up with an rs4500! Prior to chatting with Mike, this level of projector wasn’t even on my list. Can’t wait to get this hooked up and running, but my HT build is a bit behind (my plans are more ambitious that I thought and time is limited...). In the meantime, I am researching calibrators in the SoCal region. Does anyone have recommendations for a local calibrator who has experience with the rs4500/lumagen combo? I need to squeeze out every lumen possible for a calibrated HRD image if I want any hope of getting close to 30 lumens/ft with the screen size I have.
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post #3687 of 3870 Old 11-25-2019, 08:07 AM
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Hi everyone, a huge thanks to Mike G. for setting me on the right path and hooking me up with an rs4500! Prior to chatting with Mike, this level of projector wasn’t even on my list. Can’t wait to get this hooked up and running, but my HT build is a bit behind (my plans are more ambitious that I thought and time is limited...). In the meantime, I am researching calibrators in the SoCal region. Does anyone have recommendations for a local calibrator who has experience with the rs4500/lumagen combo? I need to squeeze out every lumen possible for a calibrated HRD image if I want any hope of getting close to 30 lumens/ft with the screen size I have.

Try Kris Deering or Craig Rounds. Neither are in Southern California but both "have equipment, will travel" and both have experience calibrating your combination.
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post #3688 of 3870 Old 11-25-2019, 09:18 AM
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post #3689 of 3870 Old 11-25-2019, 09:24 AM
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Hi everyone, a huge thanks to Mike G. for setting me on the right path and hooking me up with an rs4500! Prior to chatting with Mike, this level of projector wasn’t even on my list. Can’t wait to get this hooked up and running, but my HT build is a bit behind (my plans are more ambitious that I thought and time is limited...). In the meantime, I am researching calibrators in the SoCal region. Does anyone have recommendations for a local calibrator who has experience with the rs4500/lumagen combo? I need to squeeze out every lumen possible for a calibrated HRD image if I want any hope of getting close to 30 lumens/ft with the screen size I have.

ChadB has been making California swings early in the year the last few. http://www.hdtvbychadb.com/
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See ya. Dave

"High Fidelity audio has been like a dog chasing his tail. High Fidelity in my marriage has been much more rewarding because she knows where I sleep."
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post #3690 of 3870 Old 11-25-2019, 02:16 PM
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Thanks audioguy, Craig, and Jive. I will add those options to my list.
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