Official JVC RS4500/Z1 Owner's Thread - Page 83 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2461 of 3633 Old 03-21-2019, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
I thought this projector did BT709 natively and only needed a filter for BT2020/DCI-P3?
Yep, I think that was a typo by Mark, there's only a filter for Rec2020/P3 input.
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post #2462 of 3633 Old 03-21-2019, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Mark:

Check out how non-linear the drop is:
Yea, it's quite interesting. Also I find it interesting that 764 lumens is what I see on medium / -10 iris because 764 lumens was too low on my RS640 to enjoy the picture. But on the laser, it still feels quite bright.

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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
I thought this projector did BT709 natively and only needed a filter for BT2020/DCI-P3?
Yea, it's probably not a filter as much as it is some internal calibration settings that lower light output to bring colors into range. Where high measured on my meter around 2400 lumens on BT709, it measured around 3100 lumens on HIGH BRIGHT with no color profile.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
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post #2463 of 3633 Old 03-22-2019, 11:22 PM
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Does this top strip get hot for you guys when your projector is warmed up? It does for me. The rest of the casing is cold to the touch. I assume this is some sort of metal heat sink.
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Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #2464 of 3633 Old 03-23-2019, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Does this top strip get hot for you guys when your projector is warmed up? It does for me. The rest of the casing is cold to the touch. I assume this is some sort of metal heat sink.
Yep, it’s a heat sink. I think Woofer told me it’s linked to one of the processing boards.
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post #2465 of 3633 Old 03-23-2019, 10:41 AM
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Yep, it’s a heat sink. I think Woofer told me it’s linked to one of the processing boards.
Maybe I should put little fans blowing on it to keep it extra cool !

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post #2466 of 3633 Old 03-24-2019, 01:24 AM
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Maybe I should put little fans blowing on it to keep it extra cool !
Well, I know you’re joking Craig, but actually I am going to add a 120mm PC fan blowing down onto mine as my hush box is a lot more compact than your kit cupboard, so I want to make sure there’s plenty of cool air being directed over it.
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post #2467 of 3633 Old 03-24-2019, 01:48 AM
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I’ve actually recently managed to get my Z1 into the hush box (it almost physically broke me trying to lift it to head height on my own, and trying to fit all the cables in before sliding it back into place!). I’ve also now finished fitting the external extraction to it using some heavily modified duct fittings, lined with acoustic foam and rubber damping sheets (those designed for lining inside PC’s for soundproofing them):



It’s working really well, and extracts at a rate of airflow (it’s temperature controlled) a little greater than the RS4500 puts out. Surprisingly the noise the projector puts out has been massively reduced. Med laser is quieter than low laser was before (with the projector in free space), and high laser is quieter than med laser was before.

I suspect the noise reduction is partly because the rear of the projector is inside the hush box (which currently doesn’t have its top or front on) which eliminates the noise from the three rear fans, and the vent covers I’ve made reduce the noise from the front vents.

Given how low the noise is now, by the time I refit the lid on the hush box, and add the front cover (still to be made due to the Z1 being 4” longer) I’ll be able to use high laser if I need to, without an issue and without being able to hear it at all.
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post #2468 of 3633 Old 03-24-2019, 01:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
I’ve actually recently managed to get my Z1 into the hush box (it almost physically broke me trying to lift it to head height on my own, and trying to fit all the cables in before sliding it back into place!). I’ve also now finished fitting the external extraction to it using some heavily modified duct fittings, lined with acoustic foam and rubber damping sheets (those designed for lining inside PC’s for soundproofing them):



It’s working really well, and extracts at a rate of airflow (it’s temperature controlled) a little greater than the RS4500 puts out. Surprisingly the noise the projector puts out has been massively reduced. Med laser is quieter than low laser was before (with the projector in free space), and high laser is quieter than med laser was before.

I suspect the noise reduction is partly because the rear of the projector is inside the hush box (which currently doesn’t have its top or front on) which eliminates the noise from the three rear fans, and the vent covers I’ve made reduce the noise from the front vents.

Given how low the noise is now, by the time I refit the lid on the hush box, and add the front cover (still to be made due to the Z1 being 4” longer) I’ll be able to use high laser if I need to, without an issue and without being able to hear it at all.
Can you show more photos of your hush box? I'd like to see also how those front air ducts vent. Is that going to be a fully enclosed hushbox when you're done? If so, doesn't putting glass in front of the lens sort of partially defeat having a great lens to begin with?
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Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
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post #2469 of 3633 Old 03-24-2019, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Can you show more photos of your hush box? I'd like to see also how those front air ducts vent. Is that going to be a fully enclosed hushbox when you're done? If so, doesn't putting glass in front of the lens sort of partially defeat having a great lens to begin with?
I’ll try and take some more Mark, if I can, though it’s tricky as the room is dark and the entire hush box is covered in black velvet.

There won’t be any glass over the lens, the front cover of the hush box will have a round opening that will seal against the outer ring of the lens surround. My DCR lens will fit to this on rails, to allow it to slid up and down in front of the lens.

I don’t envisage any noise coming through the lens, and there is a rubber seal around the lens itself attached to the lens opening, so that will be airtight and prevent any major noise leakage also.
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post #2470 of 3633 Old 03-24-2019, 02:00 AM
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Maybe I should put little fans blowing on it to keep it extra cool !
You should get that new LK 990 BenQ, it's water cooled, that's cool
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post #2471 of 3633 Old 03-24-2019, 02:01 AM
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I’ll try and take some more Mark, if I can, though it’s tricky as the room is dark and the entire hush box is covered in black velvet.

There won’t be any glass over the lens, the front cover of the hush box will have a round opening that will seal against the outer ring of the lens surround. My DCR lens will fit to this on rails, to allow it to slid up and down in front of the lens.

I don’t envisage any noise coming through the lens, and there is a rubber seal around the lens itself attached to the lens opening, so that will be airtight and prevent any major noise leakage also.
I run my laser on low and cant hear it at all. But when I play games I kick it up to mid. It still doesn't bug me much. I never run high. However, if I use the crap out of this, in a few years these settings could move to mid and high and a hush box might be in the cards here.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #2472 of 3633 Old 03-24-2019, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
I run my laser on low and cant hear it at all. But when I play games I kick it up to mid. It still doesn't bug me much. I never run high. However, if I use the crap out of this, in a few years these settings could move to mid and high and a hush box might be in the cards here.
I suspect the vent covers that you guys get in the US (that don’t appear to exist in Europe! ) probabaly make a lot of difference - though I’m betting you could make them even more effective if you lined them both sides with some of that PC damping stuff I used, it’s really good:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AcoustiPack..._dt_b_pd_title

It also depends on where the base noise level is in your room. I went to a huge effort to soundproof my room when I built it, as it’s part of the main house and there are bedrooms above, and I wanted to be able to listen at reference, at night when the kids were asleep. A side result is that not only does noise not get out of the room, it doesn’t get in either, so the noise floor (more by accident than intent) is incredibly low - I haven’t been able to physically measure it as the meters I use bottom out (so that’s less than 22dB). When I measured my old room which was a typical multi-purpose lounge/living room, I’d typically get 40-50dB noise floor.

The net result now means even the slightest noise from the projector is audible, particularly in quite passages in films etc. Don’t get me wrong, now I have the extract covers on, most people would hear it and it would be (in mid laser) quite a bit less than most PJ’s in high lamp, but I’m a perfectionist with these things, so if the movie (or game) has a scene intended to be silence, that’s all I want to be able to hear!
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post #2473 of 3633 Old 03-24-2019, 07:26 AM
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I suspect the vent covers that you guys get in the US (that don’t appear to exist in Europe! ) probabaly make a lot of difference - though I’m betting you could make them even more effective if you lined them both sides with some of that PC damping stuff I used, it’s really good:
Wow why would they leave those out of the Z1? Those things are great. It feels like it cut the noise in half.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
I’ve actually recently managed to get my Z1 into the hush box (it almost physically broke me trying to lift it to head height on my own, and trying to fit all the cables in before sliding it back into place!). I’ve also now finished fitting the external extraction to it using some heavily modified duct fittings, lined with acoustic foam and rubber damping sheets (those designed for lining inside PC’s for soundproofing them):



It’s working really well, and extracts at a rate of airflow (it’s temperature controlled) a little greater than the RS4500 puts out. Surprisingly the noise the projector puts out has been massively reduced. Med laser is quieter than low laser was before (with the projector in free space), and high laser is quieter than med laser was before.

I suspect the noise reduction is partly because the rear of the projector is inside the hush box (which currently doesn’t have its top or front on) which eliminates the noise from the three rear fans, and the vent covers I’ve made reduce the noise from the front vents.

Given how low the noise is now, by the time I refit the lid on the hush box, and add the front cover (still to be made due to the Z1 being 4” longer) I’ll be able to use high laser if I need to, without an issue and without being able to hear it at all.
What external extraction do you have hooked up to this? What do you do for inbound air?
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post #2475 of 3633 Old 03-24-2019, 10:44 AM
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You should get that new LK 990 BenQ, it's water cooled, that's cool
I'm not a single chip faux 4K DLP fan, so liquid cooling isn't going to sway me. Besides, I can't use any projector that doesn't have powered focus, lens shift and zoom.

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post #2476 of 3633 Old 03-24-2019, 10:46 AM
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Wow why would they leave those out of the Z1? Those things are great. It feels like it cut the noise in half.
And I'm sure they are not expensive to throw a pair in a box. It's just plastic.

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Official JVC RS4500/Z1 Owner's Thread

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I'm not a single chip faux 4K DLP fan, so liquid cooling isn't going to sway me.

And yet it’s sharper and more detailed than your “full 4K” RS4500 at 3-6 times the price.
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post #2478 of 3633 Old 03-24-2019, 11:18 AM
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And yet it’s sharper and more detailed than your “full 4K” RS4500 at 3-6 times the price.
Give it a rest Harper. I've seen BenQ's and DLP's up to $250K at Cedia, including those demo'd by Peter Cineramax, Barco's, Digital Projection and SIM2. And I've had single chip DLP's in my theater.

You are starting to sound like a religious fanatic. You are now going on ignore.

Why don't you go tell Art he's stupid for buying two VW5000's when he could have a pair of BenQ's instead. Knock yourself out.
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Give it a rest Harper. I've seen BenQ's and DLP's up to $250K at Cedia, including those demo'd by Peter Cineramax, Barco's, Digital Projection and SIM2. And I've had single chip DLP's in my theater.



You are starting to sound like a religious fanatic. You are now going on ignore.



Why don't you go tell Art he's stupid for buying two VW5000's when he could have a pair of BenQ's instead. Knock yourself out.

I’m just playing your game now Craig. If you can dish it out in the LK970 and 990 threads, then you should be able to take it here too.

I always said the RS4500, VW885ES and VW5000ES were better projectors and would have one myself if budget weren’t a concern, but I wasn’t the one coming onto your precious RS4500 thread like a troll at every chance I got to point out it’s flaws you and your rabble have been doing over on the LK threads.

I politely asked you to “give it a rest”, especially because you never saw one, yet you just kept it up, so I responded in kind so you could understand how it was. I guess you know now, huh?
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post #2480 of 3633 Old 03-24-2019, 12:48 PM
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Wow why would they leave those out of the Z1? Those things are great. It feels like it cut the noise in half.
I think they must be a JVC USA after market add-on. Might be a JVC US exclusive - they’re certainly not listed as ‘in-the-box’ items in the manual.

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What external extraction do you have hooked up to this? What do you do for inbound air?
I have an external wall mounted extract fan, designed for cooker hood extraction, which can pull 620m3/hr (360ft3/min) - though the temperature controller rarely takes the fan speed above 50%. The hush box is built into a window reveal at the rear of the room. The windows have vents built into the frame at the top (it’s part of UK building regs), so as the warm extract air is drawn out, fresh air is drawn into the rear of the hush box via those vents (directly above the Z1’s air intake).
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I have an external wall mounted extract fan, designed for cooker hood extraction, which can pull 620m3/hr (360ft3/min) - though the temperature controller rarely takes the fan speed above 50%. The hush box is built into a window reveal at the rear of the room. The windows have vents built into the frame at the top (it’s part of UK building regs), so as the warm extract air is drawn out, fresh air is drawn into the rear of the hush box via those vents (directly above the Z1’s air intake).
Awesome. Thanks for this - really useful info.

I was thinking something similar, but had no idea on volumes needed. Was also debating whether it needs air conditioned air or not. It sounds like in your setup at least it's not needed. I may run into problems though when outside air temps reach 40+ in summer :/

Here is the proposal I put to my architect, which would allow air conditioned air if needed, but also just normal extraction in cooler months. Do you think it'd work?

Cheers
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Awesome. Thanks for this - really useful info.

I was thinking something similar, but had no idea on volumes needed. Was also debating whether it needs air conditioned air or not. It sounds like in your setup at least it's not needed. I may run into problems though when outside air temps reach 40+ in summer :/

Here is the proposal I put to my architect, which would allow air conditioned air if needed, but also just normal extraction in cooler months. Do you think it'd work?

Cheers
I'm just using a 170 CFM inline duct fan with a Y, to move the hot air out of my closet. I have rigged the door to the closet with a metal hook and eyelet that keeps it open ( ajar ) so fresh air enters at the rear. The closet does have space ( unlike a hush box ), but the 170 CFM moves plenty of air out. YMMV.
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post #2483 of 3633 Old 03-25-2019, 06:44 AM
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Awesome. Thanks for this - really useful info.

I was thinking something similar, but had no idea on volumes needed. Was also debating whether it needs air conditioned air or not. It sounds like in your setup at least it's not needed. I may run into problems though when outside air temps reach 40+ in summer :/

Here is the proposal I put to my architect, which would allow air conditioned air if needed, but also just normal extraction in cooler months. Do you think it'd work?

Cheers
If you can get air-conditioned air into the hush box, even better, and probably a must is you're hitting those kind of ambient temps. I'm in the UK and fortunately (or unfortunately depending on how you look at it!) ambient temps rarely get above 30 degrees C, even in the height of Summer, so that's fine for me as intake air temp.

Its difficult to see from your drawing, but as long as you have a way for cool replacement air (when not using the air conditioning) to get into the cabinet, you should be fine. This cooler make-up air can be from in room if you don't want to run separate ducting from it, just make sure the intake is a folded path with sound absorption along the route, to prevent noise escaping from it.

With regards to the extract fan, just place it as far from the room as you can, and use lined acoustic ducting if you can, to minimise noise from it. These fans are particularly good, and run very quite (I have one extracting air from my equipment rack):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TD-Silent-1...ent+fans&psc=1

Just pick a size that suits your requirements, and bear in mind that the further away the fan is placed, the the more turns in your ducting, the more power (or more correctly the greater static pressure) your fan needs to achieve.

As Craig says his 170cfm fan provides enough extraction, and my 360cfm fan runs no more than 50% (probably on average less than that - I just like to over-specify). So as long as you're running 150-200cfm at the exit point in the hush box, you should be fine.
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Last edited by Wookii; 03-25-2019 at 06:51 AM.
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post #2484 of 3633 Old 03-25-2019, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
If you can get air-conditioned air into the hush box, even better, and probably a must is you're hitting those kind of ambient temps. I'm in the UK and fortunately (or unfortunately depending on how you look at it!) ambient temps rarely get above 30 degrees C, even in the height of Summer, so that's fine for me as intake air temp.

Its difficult to see from your drawing, but as long as you have a way for cool replacement air (when not using the air conditioning) to get into the cabinet, you should be fine. This cooler make-up air can be from in room if you don't want to run separate ducting from it, just make sure the intake is a folded path with sound absorption along the route, to prevent noise escaping from it.

With regards to the extract fan, just place it as far from the room as you can, and use lined acoustic ducting if you can, to minimise noise from it. These fans are particularly good, and run very quite (I have one extracting air from my equipment rack):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TD-Silent-1...ent+fans&psc=1

Just pick a size that suits your requirements, and bear in mind that the further away the fan is placed, the the more turns in your ducting, the more power (or more correctly the greater static pressure) your fan needs to achieve.

As Craig says his 170cfm fan provides enough extraction, and my 360cfm fan runs no more than 50% (probably on average less than that - I just like to over-specify). So as long as you're running 150-200cfm at the exit point in the hush box, you should be fine.
should have some photos of projector (rs4500) installed very soon, DCR lens arriving tomorrow, Lumagen Rad Pro coming this week, still have to paint (dark graphite flat) all the side walls and install commercial door - should be picking that up today, carpet going in next week along with HVAC system, theater chairs arrive tomorrow, going to have to leave work upon a phone call for a time for delivery, have to prep floor for carpet before i get too far along, before i paint rest of room - Elite 80 paradigms in ceiling for atmos
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post #2485 of 3633 Old 03-25-2019, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
If you can get air-conditioned air into the hush box, even better, and probably a must is you're hitting those kind of ambient temps. I'm in the UK and fortunately (or unfortunately depending on how you look at it!) ambient temps rarely get above 30 degrees C, even in the height of Summer, so that's fine for me as intake air temp.

Its difficult to see from your drawing, but as long as you have a way for cool replacement air (when not using the air conditioning) to get into the cabinet, you should be fine. This cooler make-up air can be from in room if you don't want to run separate ducting from it, just make sure the intake is a folded path with sound absorption along the route, to prevent noise escaping from it.

With regards to the extract fan, just place it as far from the room as you can, and use lined acoustic ducting if you can, to minimise noise from it. These fans are particularly good, and run very quite (I have one extracting air from my equipment rack):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TD-Silent-1...ent+fans&psc=1

Just pick a size that suits your requirements, and bear in mind that the further away the fan is placed, the the more turns in your ducting, the more power (or more correctly the greater static pressure) your fan needs to achieve.

As Craig says his 170cfm fan provides enough extraction, and my 360cfm fan runs no more than 50% (probably on average less than that - I just like to over-specify). So as long as you're running 150-200cfm at the exit point in the hush box, you should be fine.
Thanks so much. Will go with the S&P TD-Silent 500/150mm. Lowest setting is 18 dB (A) at 3m and pushes 350 m³/h (206cfm). It'll be mounted outside anyway, with no door. Also leaves some headroom in case I need more (up to 550m³/h / 324cfm). Will push architect to use acoustic ducting..

Cheers
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post #2486 of 3633 Old 03-25-2019, 08:41 AM
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Hi @JohnnyWilkinson Have you decided on a Z1 for your theatre then?

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post #2487 of 3633 Old 03-25-2019, 12:29 PM
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Hi @JohnnyWilkinson Have you decided on a Z1 for your theatre then?
Hah, no - but it's very much still in contention.

I just figured that since I'm building a generic hushbox - as long as it can accommodate the Z1 and the 5000ES, it's probably future proof enough
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post #2488 of 3633 Old 03-25-2019, 02:20 PM
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Hello, everyone. I'm thinking of upgrading a new projector to use with my new home theater. I have had a Sony VPL-VW285ES and Screen research ClearPix 4k white gain 1.0 with black blocking 16:9 161 inches in diagonal.
I know that AT screen 16:9 161 inches needs a lot of lumens, so RS4500 is my choice. I have a few questions to ask about RS4500.

1.Will RS4500 get a firmware update to support HDR auto tone mapping like RS3000 and RS2000?
2.I play video games sometimes. What is the input lag of RS4500 with latest firmware?
3.If I would like to buy a used, B-stock or demo RS4500, should I be worried about convergence issues everyone is talking about or any other problems?

Thank you for all your help.
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post #2489 of 3633 Old 03-25-2019, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnnyWilkinson View Post
Hah, no - but it's very much still in contention.

I just figured that since I'm building a generic hushbox - as long as it can accommodate the Z1 and the 5000ES, it's probably future proof enough
If an RS4500 or a VW5000 will fit, I think you should be in pretty good shape for a few years.
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post #2490 of 3633 Old 03-26-2019, 06:16 AM
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Hah, no - but it's very much still in contention.

I just figured that since I'm building a generic hushbox - as long as it can accommodate the Z1 and the 5000ES, it's probably future proof enough
Cool.

I don't know which country you are buying your machine in (your name suggests UK) But the cost here is very high and as we are now seeing, much cheaper machines come extremely close to trouncing it.

Good luck in your search, but remember no projector is perfect, it is down to what you prioritise in an image and what you can deal with as far as shortcomings go as they all have those.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
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