Is Lexicon EVER making a comeback? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 5Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 37 Old 03-01-2017, 04:40 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
swanlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,493
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 485 Post(s)
Liked: 230
Is Lexicon EVER making a comeback?

Sad to see Harmon scrap this brand, I sent emails a year or so ago to some Harmon reps who still insist the brand is not dead but it has been so long I doubt we will see another item from this brand. Very sad as I still use my MC-8B and would have loved a modern Lexicon with Logic 7. They really messed up it seems with the pre announced MP-20 just to can it before it came out
swanlee is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 37 Old 03-01-2017, 08:45 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Whittier, CA
Posts: 28,932
Mentioned: 257 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7890 Post(s)
Liked: 7084
Lexicon hasn't been its own company for a while. Harman basically develops products and then decides which of their brands to release it under. Many years back, they did develop immersive audio processing (with heights) that was intended to be the successor to Logic7. But, aside from a couple of car OEM installs and a commercial D-Cinema processor, QuantumLogic hasn't seen the light of day in any consumer products. The only thing Harman has done with the Lexicon brand lately is put the name on a pair of active speakers that were demonstrated at CES (don't know why they didn't use one of their speaker brands, like Infinity, JBL or Revel).

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #3 of 37 Old 03-01-2017, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
swanlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,493
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 485 Post(s)
Liked: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Lexicon hasn't been its own company for a while. Harman basically develops products and then decides which of their brands to release it under. Many years back, they did develop immersive audio processing (with heights) that was intended to be the successor to Logic7. But, aside from a couple of car OEM installs and a commercial D-Cinema processor, QuantumLogic hasn't seen the light of day in any consumer products. The only thing Harman has done with the Lexicon brand lately is put the name on a pair of active speakers that were demonstrated at CES (don't know why they didn't use one of their speaker brands, like Infinity, JBL or Revel).
Seems like a total waste of a great Brand and unique technology
sdurani likes this.
swanlee is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 37 Old 03-01-2017, 10:12 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Whittier, CA
Posts: 28,932
Mentioned: 257 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7890 Post(s)
Liked: 7084
Not concerned about the brand as I am the technology. I'd love to have their surround processing and subwoofer optimization technologies in a reasonably priced pre-pro, irrespective of brand.
DS-21 likes this.

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #5 of 37 Old 03-01-2017, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
swanlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,493
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 485 Post(s)
Liked: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Not concerned about the brand as I am the technology. I'd love to have their surround processing and subwoofer optimization technologies in a reasonably priced pre-pro, irrespective of brand.
Yea I'll be sticking to old Lexicon pre/pro's probably till the end of my days due to Logic 7.
swanlee is offline  
post #6 of 37 Old 03-01-2017, 11:00 AM
Advanced Member
 
tveli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: southern NH
Posts: 745
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Lexicon sure had many great technologies and engineers. My relative-price has probably dropped since I interviewed there, but they couldn't afford me at the time... :| Some of my "computer deadhead" genius friends worked there...

I understand that that many/most/all of the Lexicon's engineers dispersed decade(s) ago to other innovative companies/technologies involving things like Robots and Object-Oriented-Internet.
Seems Lexicon is mostly a nostalgia situation at this point, although the Lexicon/Harman DD-8 amp looks somewhat nifty for those who need a multiroom amp.

Thanks for the memories!
tveli is online now  
post #7 of 37 Old 03-01-2017, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
swanlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,493
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 485 Post(s)
Liked: 230
I wish they would maintain at least one Flagship Modern pre/pro with Logic 7/QuantumLogic. They don;t have to have a huge product lineup but at least one pre/pro to carry these features. the MC-14 being a rebadged Bryston without Logic7 was a bad move.

With Atmos picking up you'd figure their is a market for QuantumLogic simulating these other channels out of non atmos material
swanlee is offline  
post #8 of 37 Old 03-01-2017, 05:20 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
b curry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: on the way to Hell, Michigan USA
Posts: 5,073
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1294 Post(s)
Liked: 833
Well, since Samsung has purchased Harmon International for $8.9 billion, I would not be surprised to see the Lexicon brand name sold off like Polaroid, Zenith, etc..

You'll be picking up some Lexicon brand HDMI cables at Best Buy or Target.
b curry is offline  
post #9 of 37 Old 03-08-2017, 08:35 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Unlikely
albertyang is offline  
post #10 of 37 Old 03-08-2017, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
swanlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,493
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 485 Post(s)
Liked: 230
I just want a new flagship Pre/Pro with some variant of Logic7 to come out every couple of years to keep up with different technology advances.
swanlee is offline  
post #11 of 37 Old 03-11-2017, 05:54 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rblnr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY/NJ
Posts: 1,179
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
Liked: 222
Lex seems very dead. QL was easily the most impressive surround music extraction (from 2ch) I've ever heard. Upon leaving the demo at Cedia few years ago, I was immediately plotting a new surround/overhead setup. The tech's ability to separate and extract various components of a song then put them back together in a more spacious and natural way was uncanny.

Wish they'd license the tech for home use if they're not going to use it.

Line array-based HT/two channel system

http://www.outreachav.com Dealer for Paradigm/Anthem, NAD, Hegel, Storm Audio, JVC, Sony, Parasound, Neat Acoustics, Roonlabs, more... PM about demos/specials
rblnr is offline  
post #12 of 37 Old 03-11-2017, 07:07 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
thebland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Detroit, Michigan USA
Posts: 26,779
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2598 Post(s)
Liked: 1861
I always find these 'will Lexicon come back' threads a laugh. Lexicon is a brand not a unique offering and their surround modes are old (but good for legacy )...
thxman likes this.

I salute our Immersion professionals: Curt Hoyt to which I am very thankful for positioning my JBL loudspeakers correctly to achieve a very tight bubble and the greatly missed Peter CINERAMAX whose fearless R&D in PRO-RIBBON cinemas, curation of most immersive Kaleidescape scripts and forging ahead to 55 loudspeaker Crystal Led Cinemas will pave the road ahead. And Adam Pelz for bringing the system to jawdropping life!
thebland is online now  
post #13 of 37 Old 03-11-2017, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
swanlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,493
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 485 Post(s)
Liked: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
I always find these 'will Lexicon come back' threads a laugh. Lexicon is a brand not a unique offering and their surround modes are old (but good for legacy )...

Logic 7 and the newer Quantumlogic is unique and not being offered on any modern Pre/Pro. Nothing on the market offers anything as good as Logic 7.
swanlee is offline  
post #14 of 37 Old 03-11-2017, 07:30 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,796
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1787 Post(s)
Liked: 1490
Quote:
Originally Posted by swanlee View Post
Logic 7 and the newer Quantumlogic is unique and not being offered on any modern Pre/Pro. Nothing on the market offers anything as good as Logic 7.
I have an old HK receiver with the Logic7 processing and I agree it's great. It beats the pants off of ProLogic.

I'd be happy with just a modern Harmon/Kardon receiver or pre/pro. With all of Harman's DSP knowhow and research they'd probably be able to develop something even better than Audyssey if they wanted to commit to that market.
TuteTibiImperes is offline  
post #15 of 37 Old 03-11-2017, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
swanlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,493
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 485 Post(s)
Liked: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuteTibiImperes View Post
I have an old HK receiver with the Logic7 processing and I agree it's great. It beats the pants off of ProLogic.

I'd be happy with just a modern Harmon/Kardon receiver or pre/pro. With all of Harman's DSP knowhow and research they'd probably be able to develop something even better than Audyssey if they wanted to commit to that market.
QuantumLogic was supposed to be the next step to that able to create DolbyAtmos like height channels out of stereo
swanlee is offline  
post #16 of 37 Old 03-12-2017, 08:56 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rblnr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY/NJ
Posts: 1,179
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
Liked: 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
I always find these 'will Lexicon come back' threads a laugh. Lexicon is a brand not a unique offering and their surround modes are old (but good for legacy )...
For me it's all about QL -- whoever might employ it. Owned an MC12b back in the day and have no regrets about moving on from it.

Line array-based HT/two channel system

http://www.outreachav.com Dealer for Paradigm/Anthem, NAD, Hegel, Storm Audio, JVC, Sony, Parasound, Neat Acoustics, Roonlabs, more... PM about demos/specials
rblnr is offline  
post #17 of 37 Old 03-12-2017, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
swanlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,493
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 485 Post(s)
Liked: 230
Is their any modern processing technique in receivers or pre/pro's that is able to simulate surround sound out of stereo as well as Logic7? I've tried DPLII on my MC-8 and it sucks compared to Logic 7. Until something comes along that is better I'll be keeping my MC-8.
swanlee is offline  
post #18 of 37 Old 03-12-2017, 07:28 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Peter M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,242
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 465 Post(s)
Liked: 437
Yeah that QL demo at CEDIA was killer !
Peter M is offline  
post #19 of 37 Old 03-13-2017, 10:41 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Glimmie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 9,190
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1102 Post(s)
Liked: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by swanlee View Post
Yea I'll be sticking to old Lexicon pre/pro's probably till the end of my days due to Logic 7.
And all the other surround modes. I was watching some 1970s TV movies this weekend. "Mono Logic 5.1" really made an improvement over default mono center channel only.

Last week I got the BluRay of "Juggernaught" It had an up mix as one of the tracks, but I instead played it 2.0 then ran through the Lexicon again on "Mono Logic" and it was much better.

Normally I run BluRay rips under JRiver as discrete 7.1 and bypass the Lexicon. But if you watch vintage stuff, the MC 8/12 is hard to beat IMO.

Of course I am interested in other/newer options. What do other people here use for legacy material?
Glimmie is offline  
post #20 of 37 Old 03-13-2017, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
swanlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,493
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 485 Post(s)
Liked: 230
Yea if anyone/codec/algorithm is doing mono/stereo realtime conversions to multichannel better than Logic 7 I'd like to know as this is the reason for sticking to my MC-8.
swanlee is offline  
post #21 of 37 Old 03-16-2017, 08:04 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bigus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The South
Posts: 5,852
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 713 Post(s)
Liked: 625
Quote:
Originally Posted by rblnr View Post
For me it's all about QL -- whoever might employ it. Owned an MC12b back in the day and have no regrets about moving on from it.
It isn't cheap, but having QL in your home isn't impossible. There are I/O boxes to interface with the Qli-32 blulink that allow you to insert the processor into a typical consumer signal chain. All told Qli-32 and BOB-32 about $10k +/- if you are so inclined. Considering the price of the previous MC-12 processors, you could do the Qli and a run of the mill Marantz or whatever pre/pro for about the same price. Not sure why more people haven't looked into this to be honest.

Bigus is offline  
post #22 of 37 Old 03-17-2017, 07:59 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rblnr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY/NJ
Posts: 1,179
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
Liked: 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigus View Post
It isn't cheap, but having QL in your home isn't impossible. There are I/O boxes to interface with the Qli-32 blulink that allow you to insert the processor into a typical consumer signal chain. All told Qli-32 and BOB-32 about $10k +/- if you are so inclined. Considering the price of the previous MC-12 processors, you could do the Qli and a run of the mill Marantz or whatever pre/pro for about the same price. Not sure why more people haven't looked into this to be honest.
I actually briefly considered it, but too much cable/ergonomic/additional conversion stages, etc. kludge. Guess I don't want QL that much

Line array-based HT/two channel system

http://www.outreachav.com Dealer for Paradigm/Anthem, NAD, Hegel, Storm Audio, JVC, Sony, Parasound, Neat Acoustics, Roonlabs, more... PM about demos/specials
rblnr is offline  
post #23 of 37 Old 03-17-2017, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
swanlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,493
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 485 Post(s)
Liked: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by rblnr View Post
I actually briefly considered it, but too much cable/ergonomic/additional conversion stages, etc. kludge. Guess I don't want QL that much
Yea sound pretty cumbersome. I'd just like a modern pre/pro capable of it with the same level of adjustments that the MC class devices have to adjust logic 7
swanlee is offline  
post #24 of 37 Old 03-17-2017, 08:32 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rblnr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY/NJ
Posts: 1,179
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
Liked: 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by swanlee View Post
Yea sound pretty cumbersome. I'd just like a modern pre/pro capable of it with the same level of adjustments that the MC class devices have to adjust logic 7
Yep, that's what I was hoping for (and what was promised at Cedia) -- incorporated into the prepro. According to Lexicon, the reason they cancelled that prepro was because a component on the video board became no longer available when they were ready to produce the box.

Line array-based HT/two channel system

http://www.outreachav.com Dealer for Paradigm/Anthem, NAD, Hegel, Storm Audio, JVC, Sony, Parasound, Neat Acoustics, Roonlabs, more... PM about demos/specials
rblnr is offline  
post #25 of 37 Old 03-17-2017, 08:37 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Whittier, CA
Posts: 28,932
Mentioned: 257 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7890 Post(s)
Liked: 7084
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigus View Post
Not sure why more people haven't looked into this to be honest.
Because its for commercial movie theatres, not consumer home theatres.

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #26 of 37 Old 03-17-2017, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
swanlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,493
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 485 Post(s)
Liked: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by rblnr View Post
Yep, that's what I was hoping for (and what was promised at Cedia) -- incorporated into the prepro. According to Lexicon, the reason they cancelled that prepro was because a component on the video board became no longer available when they were ready to produce the box.
Yea I was pretty ticked off the MP-20 was cancelled and for something they should have seen a mile away, seems silly to have still not come up with a successor. Wish they would do something with the brand and tech. Even if it slipped down into the Harman Kardon receivers that would be fine.

With my MC-8B I'm regulated to analog audio for music and optical for movies. I'm noticing a trend of devices getting rid of optical. I don't want to be backed into a situation where I have to downgrade my audio by getting rid of Logic 7 just to have inputs that work with modern components.

Last edited by swanlee; 03-17-2017 at 09:06 AM.
swanlee is offline  
post #27 of 37 Old 03-17-2017, 09:02 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bigus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The South
Posts: 5,852
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 713 Post(s)
Liked: 625
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Because its for commercial movie theatres, not consumer home theatres.
Well, yeah, I get that. Hasn't stopped people from putting proaudio speakers in their theaters, I suspect there are a few JBL Synthesis installs in homes out there, a scattering of Digital cinema servers etc. That being said, there is little information out there on it that consumers can find.

I just meant for really high end installs, like are common in this forum, I'm surprised it isn't considered occasionally. I think Peter mentioned it a year or two ago with little interest. Maybe Atmos has effectively filled that need, especially with a product like the Trinnov available.

In my case, lack of compatibility with Atmos is a big stumbling block. Its one or the other as the Qli can't accommodate incoming height channel information. For its price, I'm not ruling out purchasing one in the future if consumer options don't improve substantially in the next year or two.
Bigus is offline  
post #28 of 37 Old 03-18-2017, 09:30 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Glimmie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 9,190
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1102 Post(s)
Liked: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by swanlee View Post
Yea I was pretty ticked off the MP-20 was cancelled and for something they should have seen a mile away, seems silly to have still not come up with a successor. Wish they would do something with the brand and tech. Even if it slipped down into the Harman Kardon receivers that would be fine.

With my MC-8B I'm regulated to analog audio for music and optical for movies. I'm noticing a trend of devices getting rid of optical. I don't want to be backed into a situation where I have to downgrade my audio by getting rid of Logic 7 just to have inputs that work with modern components.
Don't worry about that. There are coax to optical converters for both directions available for less than $20. Check Amazon.

And no they don't cause any signal degradation to spite with the underground audiophile press may say. It's simply doing exactly what happens inside a device with an optical port. The optical signal must be converted to electrical at some point anyway.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...oslink+to+coax

Another tip: Notice how many of the models for sale have exactly the same form factor and footprint? Only the labeling and color is different? That's because they all use the same OEM circuit board. Then a vendor just has their own box made with their name on it. So just buy the cheapest brand in that case. The guts are the same.

Last edited by Glimmie; 03-18-2017 at 09:38 AM.
Glimmie is offline  
post #29 of 37 Old 04-07-2017, 07:41 AM
WLC
Senior Member
 
WLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Westlake, Ohio
Posts: 409
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 253 Post(s)
Liked: 254
Replaced Lexicon MC12B with Anthem AVM60

I also loved Logic 7 and didn't want to replace my 10 year old Lexicon. However, after my 10 year old projector failed and got replaced with a 4k projector, the Lexicon's optical input from a ROKU 4 only defaulted to stereo. Lexicon support was wonderful and patient but reluctantly concluded there is no fix for this problem. So, wanting to get 4k at Netflix and Amazon, I reluctantly decided to try an Anthem AVM60. Being less than a third of the price of the Lexicon, I had modest expectations. As you all know, finding a good sounding processor with the necessary HDMI and HDCP boards is not easy. At any rate, my wife and I are shocked at the improvement in the surround effect from Dolby Surround. We have a 7.2 Aerial Acoustics setup. Have no idea if anyone else would have the same reaction, just thought I would share our experience.
WLC is offline  
post #30 of 37 Old 04-07-2017, 08:44 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
swanlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,493
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 485 Post(s)
Liked: 230
Still wondering if anyone has tried any of the new Algorithms and is they know of anything that works as good as Logic 7 with taking a stereo signal and splitting it up into 7 channels?

Without something that works as good as logic 7 converting from stereo to multi channel I''m not going to leave Lexicon.
swanlee is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off