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post #31 of 277 Old 03-16-2017, 01:14 PM
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Last years unit was 6.5 feet long 3 feet wide and 3.5 high, and it looked like this locomotive but in Black Patent Leather.



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Ain't it beautiful !
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post #32 of 277 Old 03-16-2017, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's more additional information. This is shaping up to be a seriously amazing projector... Check THIS out folks!:

Sony to show at CinemCon 2017 a Dual Light Engine True Laser 4K Projector (click me!)
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post #33 of 277 Old 03-16-2017, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Here's more additional information. This is shaping up to be the most amazing HT projector ever... Check this out folks!:

Sony to show at CinemCon 2017 a Dual Light Engine True Laser 4K Projector (click me!)
That looks huge ! I'm betting the price tag is equally huge !
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post #34 of 277 Old 03-16-2017, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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That looks huge ! I'm betting the price tag is equally huge !
The photo is not of this projector... That's just the website backdrop That said, you're not wrong... I think this will be both huge in size and price. We're guestimating that the MSRP will be $100,000+ so we pretty much agree with Mike's perspective. Seriously cannot wait to see this in action! Only 12 days' time!
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post #35 of 277 Old 03-16-2017, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Here's more additional information. This is shaping up to be the most amazing HT projector ever... Check this out folks!:

Sony to show at CinemCon 2017 a Dual Light Engine True Laser 4K Projector (click me!)
Clearly a commercial cinema projector this one; sure about Sony making a separate "home" version of this monster Arrow??

Other than that; "- 2x15000 Lumen in 3D with pre polarized light out so possible no need to put filters in front of optic."; does that mean they will still require silver screens do to 3D? In such case it would be a big bummer in my opinion, having to use such a screen would put the cinemas up to an impossible choice; drop 3D or ruin 2D... The 6P laser system is really a huge leap forward for 3D, moving back to polarized silver is really not... Perhaps Sony thinks 3D is at its end also for commercial cinema??

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post #36 of 277 Old 03-16-2017, 06:17 PM
 
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The RealD Ultimate screen is white looking and nanoperf so not such a bad thing, gain of 2 but not glaringly hotspotting. Only issue is seams. which can be visible at 3 m. maybe. It's acceptable for post houses that use it for 2D and 3D.

It is technology that uses polarization so very eaasy thing to do in this projector, SONY is OUT of the commercial cinema arena at the Moment, looking to get back in.
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post #37 of 277 Old 03-16-2017, 09:09 PM
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Two of those hours would have been from Ken's calibration. You have hardly used your 5000. I am surprised that you have so few hours on it.
Actually I had an issue with my first one and Sony sent me a brand new 5000 within 16 hours.

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post #38 of 277 Old 03-16-2017, 09:24 PM
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Actually I had an issue with my first one and Sony sent me a brand new 5000 within 16 hours.

That explains why you only have 10 hours. What happened to the first one?
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post #39 of 277 Old 03-17-2017, 05:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Clearly a commercial cinema projector this one; sure about Sony making a separate "home" version of this monster Arrow??
Just to be clear THIS is what we said:
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
It is also our understanding that this projector is to be marketed by Sony both with respect to commercial cinema and home theater... Our source has confirmed that Sony intends on selling this projector into both the consumer home cinema/theater and commercial cinema markets. We would hazard a guess that, as is often done, a singular product is developed and then this is tweaked both for the consumer home cinema/theater, and separately for commercial cinema/professional use, thereby resulting in two slightly differing products.
Where our source is in fact Sony themselves.

Recognize this projector? :

It's the SONY VPL-VW5000ES, right?

Actually, it isn't... That's the SONY VPL-GTZ270, which is a commercial/professional cinema projector. SONY simply modded this to create the SONY VPL-VW5000ES. Whilst differing slightly they are essentially the same product, with the consumer/domestic product simply being a tweaked version of the commercial/professional one. This is in fact pretty common. Because by developing a singular product that is then modded to yield the two iterations, one commercial/professional, one consumer/domestic, you halve your R&D costs and time.

So, to clarify, the product being demoed at CinemaCon is indeed a commercial/professional cinema projector, like the SONY VPL-GTZ270. However, SONY has confirmed that this new projector is intended to be sold into the consumer/domestic (i.e. Home Theater/Cinema) market as well as the commercial/professional. Where if Sony follows suit along the lines of their pre-existing way of going about things in this regard, then the product that will be sold into the consumer/domestic (i.e. Home Theater/Cinema) market will simply be this projector, modded and relabelled with a different model number; as per the SONY VPL-VW5000ES

Where in fact, the units that were demonstrated at the trade shows with respect to the SONY VPL-VW5000ES prior to launch were in numerous instances in fact units of the SONY VPL-GTZ270

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Other than that; "- 2x15000 Lumen in 3D with pre polarized light out so possible no need to put filters in front of optic."; does that mean they will still require silver screens do to 3D? In such case it would be a big bummer in my opinion, having to use such a screen would put the cinemas up to an impossible choice; drop 3D or ruin 2D... The 6P laser system is really a huge leap forward for 3D, moving back to polarized silver is really not... Perhaps Sony thinks 3D is at its end also for commercial cinema??
Can't help you here unfortunately because our interest in 3D in general is absolutely zero (sorry Peter!)
.
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post #40 of 277 Old 03-17-2017, 05:55 AM
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New Flagship SONY 4K HDR Direct RGB Laser Projector

Sure, I get the VW5000 / GTZ270 differentiation, but still, this is quite a different beast one would presume... However, it's probably a good thing that Sony makes these out separately for the prosumer, perhaps that would indicate a sub 100K tag? As for 3D I guess one could always use active glasses instead for home use, 30k lumens should be sufficient even when 80% is lost through the shutters...


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post #41 of 277 Old 03-17-2017, 06:41 AM
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'So soon', I don't think this is coming soon enough. The 270/280 were launched/publicly demoed 2 or was it even three years ago. Sony has more or less abandonned the single lamp Xenon DCi line, so all it had was single-/dual-projector multilamp UHP DCi, no Laser, not even with phosphor.

Secondly 2018, then some time for HT software and shipping to start after commercial orders get filled.

80K, well perhaps if you commit to refit a whole circuit;-).

The 5 and 6 series Sony DCi started at 8000:1, with SXRD issues degrading that. So significantly better than that?

RGB laser should be available at a more managable size and budget, from that Chinese partner Sim2 announced working with but nothing came of it, the Chinese still offered that projector on their website last year at 10K lumens max., not the 20K that was announced by Sim2. Of course one can never tell if they will actually deliver untill you place an order.

Nigel also try and see the PTi Illumina LASER demo, see if it still has this green hue Peter saw two years ago when it was demoed using a tiny Viewsonic projector instead of a series 1/2 DCi projector.
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post #42 of 277 Old 03-17-2017, 06:48 AM
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Let's not forget the 280. The early 5000s still identified as 270s. The 280 was launched at the same time as the 270 at Infocomm, as the simulation model vs the mediamodel 270, with 120 fps input and no hdmi. Now, it was retargeted, and launched at ISE (doing the Dome with Sky-Skann, last year lit by the 270s) with software key brightness settings, starting at 2000 lumens instead, and it can have HDMI aswell, so less differentiation from the 270.

Residential, tends to carry a premium over commercial, when it concerns rebranding a commercial product.

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post #43 of 277 Old 03-17-2017, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Sure, I get the VW5000 / GTZ270 differentiation, but still, this is quite a different beast one would presume... However, it's probably a good thing that Sony makes these out separately for the prosumer, perhaps that would indicate a sub 100K tag?
Yes, no arguments that this thing is quite a different beast given those specs! If this lives up to even half of what's being promised here then it's going to be one hell of a projector! We will be sure to post as much information as possible along with photos of the projector itself from CinemaCon and we will try to obtain some clarity regards whether there is going to be two different models or the same model being sold into both the commercial/professional and consumer/domestic markets. Only 10 days to go now!
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post #44 of 277 Old 03-17-2017, 08:09 AM
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Just to be clear THIS is what we said: Where our source is in fact Sony themselves because he works for Sony and he will be the one managing the demos of the projector at CinemaCon.
(sorry Peter!)
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Arrow - what is your source saying about the size of the projector?
As big as ES 5000 :-)
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post #45 of 277 Old 03-17-2017, 08:25 AM
 
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It has to be bigger Ash. Although not LOCOMOTIVE Size.

I am looking at it with an open mind in the hopes that a true HDR and not EDR spec will simulate the Ansi cr. of dlp.... It is entire plausible that this could be the case.

Of course it must have a camera/or perhaps a SRM (like the Japanese techs were using a PR device when I walked in unnanounced) in place for panel registration x 6. And autocal mode.

Although Blu-laser on LCOS is not as offensive as Blu Laser on DLP, Blu laser needs to disappear quickly as it hinders color fidelity.

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post #46 of 277 Old 03-17-2017, 12:14 PM
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Although Blu-laser on LCOS is not as offensive as Blu Laser on DLP
Always figured you were a closet LCOS lover

I hear their green laser is more efficient requiring less heat dissipation. If true could mean a more manageable size.
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post #47 of 277 Old 03-17-2017, 07:05 PM
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That said, you're not wrong... I think this will be both huge in size and price. We're guestimating that the MSRP will be $100,000+ so we pretty much agree with Mike's perspective. Seriously cannot wait to see this in action! Only 12 days' time!


Well, its cheaper than its CLEDIS video wall, and still something I can't afford.
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post #48 of 277 Old 03-17-2017, 09:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, its cheaper than its CLEDIS video wall, and still something I can't afford.
The difference as compared with CLEDIS being that THIS might actually look good

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Let's not forget...
Donald, remind me what you thought of SONY's CLEDIS when you saw it with me at ISE
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post #49 of 277 Old 03-17-2017, 11:43 PM
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Well at ISE it had issues with physical module and tile consistency and alignement.

At IBC there was no second half to the screen that was turned off, like when I first saw it at ISE. That made the issue very striking. When full bright video was on the issue is not (very) clear, when part of the image is tuned down the very close, and informed by off-state, viewer can start to see some squares and edges.

So the one opening Sony's bright IBC stand looked better, as it was always showing the bright demoreel, not a turned off display.

Truth is that at ISE this year I don't remember seeing a direct view led display that did not show a line or squares, due to alignement or color/brightness difference between section. The old excuse 'not calibrated' never sat well with me if you spend hundreds of Ks to show off your products at one of a few premier shows, ste it up right.

Especially vendors with an European base can spend all the time needed setting it up at their own location before crating and trucking it to Amsterdam.

Ash, you see those handles on the 270, it's a portable projector;-).
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post #50 of 277 Old 03-18-2017, 01:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Well at ISE it had issues with physical module and tile consistency and alignement... At IBC there was no second half to the screen that was turned off, like when I first saw it at ISE. That made the issue very striking. When full bright video was on the issue is not (very) clear, when part of the image is tuned down the very close, and informed by off-state, viewer can start to see some squares and edges... So the one opening Sony's bright IBC stand looked better, as it was always showing the bright demoreel, not a turned off display... Truth is that at ISE this year I don't remember seeing a direct view led display that did not show a line or squares, due to alignement or color/brightness difference between section. The old excuse 'not calibrated' never sat well with me if you spend hundreds of Ks to show off your products at one of a few premier shows, ste it up right... Especially vendors with an European base can spend all the time needed setting it up at their own location before crating and trucking it to Amsterdam
Yup, in short CLEDIS is overpriced and comparatively looks dreadful in more ways than one Donald I spent most of the last day at ISE scouring the halls scrutinizing all the video walls, and I found two that meet our needs, both of which look way better than CLEDIS in my opinion... The first is a brand new product by LG which is 1.0mm pixel shift, 4K HDR with 1,000nits luminosity; and the second is by SiliconCore, with 0.95mm pixel shift, 4K HDR with 1,200nits luminosity. Neither of these had perceiveable seams even when viewed as close as 1-2 metres away. Consequently I am of the view that with respect to CLEDIS it is an example of where 'more expensive' does not necessary mean 'better performance' and so IMO the higher cost isn't justified, let alone being value for money. But with respect to this new SONY laser projector, whilst we are expecting MSRP to be circa $100,000+, if it delivers with respect to what is seemingly being promised, then it is our view that the cost will be more than justified. But we shall see
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post #51 of 277 Old 03-18-2017, 04:11 AM
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SiliconCore indeed second year showing the 0.95 mm. First to show 1.6/1.5(?) three years ago at ISE (if memory serves me right it was Leyard 1.6mm and SiliconCore 1.5mm three years ago, the breakthrough year for LED going definitly below 2.5mm). That display at the time was described as a $1 million TV, this was the full msrp/retail/list price, as SiliconCore exec. told me it only sold its products through integrators. The Leyard 1.2mm 8K at Lang last year was almost 1 million Wolfgang was told, by Lang.

Indeed quality display, I did not see any seems or issues with except I was expecting it to show something new and exciting, was a tad disappointed it only showed upto .95 COB display it was launching last year. The new technology announcement came after the show, it turned out there had been a delay in full market availability of last year's 0.95 and COB production technology, only shipping later this year. Smaller pitches another year off.

So you are going for the lower brightness offers. At ISE one could probably not get a demo of the dimming required for HDR, to see if color shifts, if contrast changes, and brightness changes linearily/predictably/uniformily.

Of course SC has its Euro branch in the UK. A respectable name in the field. LG, Samson and Panasonic entered the past 1-2 years, looking for margin, new growth markets that have yet to commoditise, with their capital and engineering prowess to make a quick impact.

Anti-moire filter coating? Stewart was using a Siliconcore to show-off its new led filter. Something to put in front of display not a coating applied directly to the front of the display itself.

You wanted much finer pitch, so you settled for what is available 'off-the-shelf'? Proven availability and performance is a definite plus. One Euro vendor that had an impressive client list among European broadcasters for studio use, claimed to be able to supply 0.6mm.

Of course it almost doubles the number of LEDs going from 0.9 to 0.6 so you more than double the price per M2, as manufacturing becomes more difficult, and more heat needs to dissipate.

The LG I did not see or don't remember, LG's both was too large for the own staff to know what they had, and I don't recall seeing it.

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post #52 of 277 Old 03-18-2017, 10:01 AM
 
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Yup, in short CLEDIS is overpriced and comparatively looks dreadful in more ways than one Donald I spent most of the last day at ISE scouring the halls scrutinizing all the video walls, and I found two that meet our needs, both of which look way better than CLEDIS in my opinion... The first is a brand new product by LG which is 1.0mm pixel shift, 4K HDR with 1,000nits luminosity; and the second is by SiliconCore, with 0.95mm pixel shift, 4K HDR with 1,200nits luminosity. Neither of these had perceiveable seams even when viewed as close as 1-2 metres away. Consequently I am of the view that with respect to CLEDIS it is an example of where 'more expensive' does not necessary mean 'better performance' and so IMO the higher cost isn't justified, let alone being value for money. But with respect to this new SONY laser projector, whilst we are expecting MSRP to be circa $100,000+, if it delivers with respect to what is seemingly being promised, then it is our view that the cost will be more than justified. But we shall see
.

Yes but hearing through the grapevine this may be the locomotive, a full foot longer than the Thor. OUCH! it does not fit in a 6 foot deep projection booth.

I really hope its smaller than the patent leather locomotive.
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post #53 of 277 Old 03-18-2017, 10:09 AM
 
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I have high expectations of how the apparent ansi like pop is going to manifest itself at the demo.

I had a chance to see the 70mm presentation of IMAX Interstellar, the difference going back and forth between the 35 and 70mm segements is an image standard i have imprinted in my sensory memory.

So basically we all have seen or heard of Dolby Vision Gradings that had way to much ansi cr and ansi specular highlights where i experienced a one second retinal burn trail.

The dynamic range of 70 mm is subjectively 5-10 times more than 35 mm, the color gamut wider and deeper, also the mtf and grain was phenomenally more resolvable, so im hoping the sony does not look like a giant sony z9 but more like IMAX 70mm, a tall order indeed, call my crazy but when you are in the business of planned Synergy, well this is entirely possible here folks. Because having the f-stop horsepower will appear as higher ansi but also not as clinical and impossive as dlp can get when you project at 14 f-stops.

I will make my pronouncement with the EVC in youtube.

Im bringing the LASER METER AND THE MEASURING TAPE TOO. FOR EVERY CONTENDER. I will also collect the lasers operating wavelengths, to prevent the USEFUL IDIOTS calibrator practices of showing up with the wrong instrument. What a field we toil in...
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post #54 of 277 Old 03-18-2017, 10:32 AM
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Yup, in short CLEDIS is overpriced and comparatively looks dreadful in more ways than one .

Thanks for your comments, well , that checks one thing of my lust list. Now I don't have to win the $10million dollar lottery to get it, just the Lucky 5 and I'm set for this new laser projector. Until then, I can only hope that this tech will trickle to the VW1100 successor which for me doesn't require winning lotteries.
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post #55 of 277 Old 03-18-2017, 11:14 AM
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I have high expectations of how the apparent ansi like pop is going to manifest itself at the demo.

I had a chance to see the 70mm presentation of IMAX Interstellar, the difference going back and forth between the 35 and 70mm segements is an image standard i have imprinted in my sensory memory.

So basically we all have seen or heard of Dolby Vision Gradings that had way to much ansi cr and ansi specular highlights where i experienced a one second retinal burn trail.

The dynamic range of 70 mm is subjectively 5-10 times more than 35 mm, the color gamut wider and deeper, also the mtf and grain was phenomenally more resolvable, so im hoping the sony does not look like a giant sony z9 but more like IMAX 70mm, a tall order indeed, call my crazy but when you are in the business of planned Synergy, well this is entirely possible here folks. Because having the f-stop horsepower will appear as higher ansi but also not as clinical and impossive as dlp can get when you project at 14 f-stops.

I will make my pronouncement with the EVC in youtube.

Im bringing the LASER METER AND THE MEASURING TAPE TOO. FOR EVERY CONTENDER. I will also collect the lasers operating wavelengths, to prevent the USEFUL IDIOTS calibrator practices of showing up with the wrong instrument. What a field we toil in...

Let us know.


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post #56 of 277 Old 03-18-2017, 01:00 PM
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Peter where has the go BIG or go home attitude gone! Breaking down walls to accomodate the projector being the norm.

If this thing overcomes the SXRD problem by following the DLP lead, a sealed lightpath/engine, it could be perfect. With its RGB, dual engine 3D and HDR. Who cares about a little too much in the front, let alone the back;-).

Even the Big LCD projectors now offer sealed engines so why not this super duper projector.
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post #57 of 277 Old 03-18-2017, 04:29 PM
 
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The Customer is always right

I don't know it is a matter of actually having some work to feed the family. There are not too many rooms where this is viable, just the price of premium real estate.

Who would have thought Wolfgang and Brian have the medium size projector. Never had imagined. Hey if it is the locomotive be prepared to be shocked by it's size, it borders on the grotesque. If it is the same one a complete Monster. Those that get this would also need to look at the RealD Ultimate screen, the ultimate at screen that is polarised but is white. But look at the seams, and when you want it and can't get it, i'll laugh a bit. Practically unobtainable.

Go Big or go home applies more to the screen, sorry.
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post #58 of 277 Old 03-19-2017, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
The dynamic range of 70 mm is subjectively 5-10 times more than 35 mm, the color gamut wider and deeper,
Due to what? Can't be the film strip itself which is the same for 35mm and 70mm except for size.
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post #59 of 277 Old 03-19-2017, 09:16 AM
 
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The projector is amazing so i think they do not touch the 35 element that is used, maybe there is a generation lost. Has to be in the development process.

To be Frank I have only seen this on INTERSTELLAR. Even on the bd transfer you can see some of the qualities I am talking about, more cr., more color and resolution. But I am not a celluloid expert so can't answer the why. If it works, great.


Here is the scene of spy that was now on tv where i got retinal burn maybe .66 second when the blade was lit on the edge. I saw this at the DOLBY CINEMA PREMIERE at cinemacon 14. The highlight was just blindingly bright, artificial.

Bevcause of the mtf cURVE OF lcos WITH IT'S GRADUAL ROLLOFF and the fact that due to the reflective process LCOS has some micrograin, I would love if this Sony came that close to that reference Image on Interstellar 70.

I think it might. Having dual engines is a must to give LCOS the punch it needs while enhancing the film look components. Maybe I am Wrong but that is what I think should be seen.
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post #60 of 277 Old 03-19-2017, 10:10 AM
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What is the MTF curve of LCOS?


This looks like an interesting projector. My guess is $75k. With discounts and such, it should be a possible upgrade for Art and Rob.

Having fun playing the new mobile game Volley Village
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