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post #31 of 152 Old 05-10-2017, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
I just wanted to add a couple things to your post. I think it's important to mention how well this room was constructed originally.

Art put significant thought and effort into the original theater build and that played a big role in helping get this upgrade done quickly and smoothly.

One of Art's stipulations when we started on this project, was the fact that he didn't want to pull any fabric. This was a big issue considering the entire room was wrapped in fabric from floor to ceiling.

After reviewing the photos of the original build, it became clear that his columns were constructed in a manner which would make this process extremely easy. His columns were basically two in one. One column was permanently attached to the wall which the speaker was attached to. A second column "cover" was built and wrapped in fabric. That column cover slid over the column which was permanently attached to the wall.

So all that had to be done was remove the sconce light and just slide off the exterior column cover. What a brilliant design!

His room has 8 columns. 3 on each side and 2 on the back wall. His original sound system was a typical 7.1 setup. He had 2 side speakers in his middle columns on each side of the room and he had 2 speakers in the two rear columns. We removed the 4 old Triad speakers and install the new JBL SCL3. The JBL speakers fit perfectly in the existing opening. We then added speakers to the 4 additional columns that didn't have speakers originally.

In addition to the wall speakers we added 6 JBL SCL4 speakers in the ceiling for 3D audio formats.

So we were able to take a room with a 7.1 system and go to a full 11.1.6 system without making a single cosmetic change.

Same goes for the work Mark Seaton did in adding the rear subwoofers. He was able to remove all wall material from the back side of the theater, only leaving the back of wall fabric exposed from the equipment room. Great job!

The front screen wall was also constructed in a manner to make it extremely easy to upgrade. He has two little columns that flank the screen. All they had to do was to cut those back slightly and the new 16' Stewart screen was able to perfectly slide into place of the old 14' wide Stewart screen. The 16' Vistascope now sits directly on the sand filled stage and just barely cleared the drop-down soffit.

I also want to mention how smart Art was when it came to buying a new projector. When we began to talk about the Sony 5000ES, the only way he would consider a purchase was to see what the unit could do in his room. I sent Art a unit to try out. He had Ken Whitcomb come in and measure the light output and to calibrate the unit so he knew exactly what he was getting. It was during this process that Art was able to determine that not only did he love the 5000ES, but that he had enough light output to consider moving to an even larger screen.

This was something Art had been considering for a long time, especially since he still watches a lot of 16:9 and even 4:3 content. By going to a 16' wide scope, since he was limited in ceiling height, this allowed him to put in the largest screen his wall would hold. His image now reaches from wall to wall and floor to ceiling. This gives him an even more immersive 16:9 and 4:3 image where he watches from the front row. He now watches scope images from the second row because of the massive size!

Here are a few more pictures of the work in progress and of the equipment. Congrats Art on your upgrade! I hope it brings you many many more years of happiness.

That sounds like it was a pretty big remodel.

I don't believe I have ever seen this posted. Are you a dealer, designer, installer or etc.?

Art,
Haven't you had the Sony 5000 for awhile now? I remember at Cedia Kris or Darin asking me if I had seen the Wisdom demo with Ken's calibrated Sony. IIRC Kris was saying the difference between the Ken's Sony and the 5000 at the Sony booth was night and day. A lot of people were telling me they considered it best in show.

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post #32 of 152 Old 05-10-2017, 08:09 AM
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Some Recent Upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post
That sounds like it was a pretty big remodel.



I don't believe I have ever seen this posted. Are you a dealer, designer, installer or etc.?



Art,

Haven't you had the Sony 5000 for awhile now? I remember at Cedia Kris or Darin asking me if I had seen the Wisdom demo with Ken's calibrated Sony. IIRC Kris was saying the difference between the Ken's Sony and the 5000 at the Sony booth was night and day. A lot of people were telling me they considered it best in show.


I own a custom AV company. So yes I am a dealer and designer. We have multiple crews of installers.

When it came to Art's system, I worked in conjunction with Ken Whitcomb. Ken has worked for Art for years and years, and was familiar with all his existing equipment, layout, and wiring.

Ken did the installation and setup of all the new equipment in coordination with my team. Ken did the original Trinnov auto-Eq and the Mark Seaton came in to do the final calibration. Mark knows how to squeak out every last ounce of performance out of his subs and the Trinnov. With the addition of the 2 subs in the back of the room, Mark was able to really balance the bass throughout the entire space. Mark truly builds some world-renowned subs!

Art bought his projector from me last May, which was the first phase of this upgrade. But yes he is close to his one year mark with the 5000ES. projector!

This was attacked as a team effort with Art leading the charge. Art never takes his eye off the ball, and remained very involved throughout the entire process. It was with him involvement that we were able to make sure we delivered a final product he was thrilled with.


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post #33 of 152 Old 05-10-2017, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post
That sounds like it was a pretty big remodel.

I don't believe I have ever seen this posted. Are you a dealer, designer, installer or etc.?

Art,
Haven't you had the Sony 5000 for awhile now? I remember at Cedia Kris or Darin asking me if I had seen the Wisdom demo with Ken's calibrated Sony. IIRC Kris was saying the difference between the Ken's Sony and the 5000 at the Sony booth was night and day. A lot of people were telling me they considered it best in show.

Yes, one year this month with the 5000. As Chris said , once I saw the 5000 on my old screen I saw the potential to get to a larger screen that I had wanted since I now had the light and resolution. The audio upgrade timing then fell into place. I had wanted to do the audio but wanted it done as one process if possible.


Art
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post #34 of 152 Old 05-10-2017, 08:31 AM
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@cco ol,
That is great.

Do you consider the JBLs to be your top of the line audio?


@Art ,
Yeah, I thought you had had it for awhile now. I probably was wondering aloud at that time if potential Sony buyers shouldn't wait for the JVC. I ended up being wrong.

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post #35 of 152 Old 05-10-2017, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post
@cco ol,

That is great.



Do you consider the JBLs to be your top of the line audio?




@Art ,

Yeah, I thought you had had it for awhile now. I probably was wondering aloud at that time if potential Sony buyers shouldn't wait for the JVC. I ended up being wrong.


I would consider both Wisdom Audio and JBL Synthesis to be our top of the line.

We use JBL Synthesis for dedicated theaters but find Wisdom Audio to be a great line for media rooms or family rooms where everything has to remain in-wall.




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post #36 of 152 Old 05-10-2017, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
Thanks Chris ! Without exaggeration, you've been one of the best people I've ever worked with. Getting this done with a minimal of down time, communicating with those involved here to keep the work flow in a logical efficient fashion, and providing all of us with what we needed as it went was quite impressive really.


One incredible thing was the deliveries. I was in on my way to Terre Haute for a visit with the football coach at Rose Hullman with Tyrus the day everything needed to be delivered .You said when you expected each of what I think were four large deliveries. Angela was sending me texts and pictures.... it was funny "oh there's a big truck", "oh look there is the next one" etc all before 11AM as you had said.


Maybe it's that southern drawl but just chatting with you would calm me down when I needed it.


Anyway, thanks again !


Art
Couldn't agree more regarding Chris, His motto has always been the jobs not finished until the customer is 100 percent satisfied..Great installation crew, and just a really nice guy to deal with. A1
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post #37 of 152 Old 05-10-2017, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
Finally, the last upgrades are completed after the Sub install and calibration and room tuning by Mark this weekend. We were able to enjoy the Sony 5000 firing onto the 16' wide screen with some folks in for a party.






Absolutely fabulous remodel Art, I know you worked very hard from begging to end getting everything just right. Now sit back and enjoy.
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post #38 of 152 Old 05-10-2017, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Absolutely fabulous remodel Art, I know you worked very hard from beginning to end getting everything just right. Now sit back and enjoy.

Thanks Lon ! As I said to Chris a bit ago, enjoy what we have while researching the next thing is part of what makes it a hobby.


Art
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post #39 of 152 Old 05-10-2017, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
I would consider both Wisdom Audio and JBL Synthesis to be our top of the line.

We use JBL Synthesis for dedicated theaters but find Wisdom Audio to be a great line for media rooms or family rooms where everything has to remain in-wall.

I can't tell you how many people came up to me and told me how great the Wisdom demo was last year. My buddy Steve Crabb got me into the final demo. It was definitely excellent.

That is great to hear about JBL.
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post #40 of 152 Old 05-12-2017, 10:14 AM
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After spending the weekend at Art's home I had a lot to catch up with this week in the office, so my apologies for the late contribution. Just as with Art's previous upgrades, with everyone involved the result ended up even more enjoyable than I expected. It seems every time I am involved in an upgrade of Art's system I am able to confirm a hunch and see it realized in his system. As usual the results will have impact on what I push forward with in the future.

Thank you again Art for including me in the now 10 year adventure with your awesome home theater.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bscool View Post
What are the new 18" subs called, they don't look like the F18. Almost look like the Submersive with 18"?

I see after scrolling down the amps are on the back it looks like so just 1 18" per enclosure?
Good catch. As Art confirmed, these are the first of 2 new models from our upcoming Designer Series. Art received the first of the DS18-20 model which is 20" square on the face and 23.5" deep with the option to have a plate amplifier in the unit as a + model. Brad, aka, @Lasalle is getting the first 2 of the related DS18-12 model which is 30" x 26" but only 12" deep (+1/2" cover around driver) for his theater currently in construction.

Here are some quick pictures I grabbed of both of their subs together before they headed out to each theater:









These deliver all the performance of our F18 subwoofers but were conceived with system designers, installers, and integrators in mind. We run these in much smaller batches and largely per order. They will be a bit higher cost and priced with shipping included and magnetic grills optional if desired. The F18 is a useful size when sitting in room and when visible. While not hard to fit in many dedicated theaters, there are many cases where the dimensions ultimately limit options and when the best location for the subwoofers don't allow the performance we would prefer to install. The goal here is to allow some more creative solutions and better performing results. While I know it's popular and fun to lust and banter over the biggest, baddest, and most obscenely sized boxes available, the right location with a very good sub almost always sounds and performs better than a big brute in the wrong place.

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Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
Same goes for the work Mark Seaton did in adding the rear subwoofers. He was able to remove all wall material from the back side of the theater, only leaving the back of wall fabric exposed from the equipment room. Great job!
Thanks Chris,

The results all around were pretty awesome. I've been eyeing poking subs through the back wall of Art's theater for years after taking my first measurements in the room, but I know the other construction coming through with such good aesthetic result and the larger screen making the 2nd row viewing of greater interest, it was time to make it happen.

It should be known that the construction and cutting into the rear wall wasn't done on a whim or guess. I had on file grouped measurements of the 3 in-wall Triad subwoofers, but none of just the rear wall location. In a previous visit to get the desired wow factor in the calibration, Art agreed to have me bring a compact, 12" test subwoofer to verify the efficacy of the intended subwoofer locations in the room. This was very similar to what I did in @thebland 's room prior to the eventual SubMersive upgrade where we determined we needed to keep the deep bass power at the front wall of his room. This required measurement of the same subwoofer at the front of the room in the various seating locations as well as at the rear and side wall locations to determine how we could use each in the final calibration. The front and rear locations make for a somewhat tricky, but useful blend at the seats. Finding a best balance for both rows was not obvious, but with appropriate delays we were able to hugely reduce the variations between the rows where the rear row was originally about +/-8dB from the front row before we started. I even put the side wall Triad's to use with a 45Hz high pass filter and lower level to help fill in two narrow, upper bass dips between the rows. All subwoofers outputs were configured as a multi-way speaker so the delays, level, and filtering could be set prior to the Trinnov's response correction. The resulting combination allowed for a much tighter match with less correction needed, where the front rows have a little more punch, and the 2nd row has a little more heft down low with both being very satisfying.

The combination was not about maximum output, where we actually traded some of the maximum combination in either row for a more even response at both seats and through the room. Subjectively this made a very obvious increase in the perceived bass energy in the room as it wasn't just at one area, but rather everywhere in the room. That energy more evenly working throughout the room adds even more of the floor-rippling effect, and in the "subwoofer demo" preset we can easily achieve a hair-shaking experience with common demo material.

Many thanks again to Art for allowing for the time to do the required head-scratching with the bass combination and the tweaking of the Trinnov correction parameters to best work with his room acoustics and the speaker's interactions. The end result really is a big step beyond where we started after the the first default run through the correction. Hopefully more than a few here will get to experience his room if schedules allow for an AVS meet.

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post #41 of 152 Old 05-12-2017, 09:09 PM
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I own a custom AV company. So yes I am a dealer and designer. We have multiple crews of installers.

When it came to Art's system, I worked in conjunction with Ken Whitcomb. Ken has worked for Art for years and years, and was familiar with all his existing equipment, layout, and wiring.

Ken did the installation and setup of all the new equipment in coordination with my team. Ken did the original Trinnov auto-Eq and the Mark Seaton came in to do the final calibration. Mark knows how to squeak out every last ounce of performance out of his subs and the Trinnov. With the addition of the 2 subs in the back of the room, Mark was able to really balance the bass throughout the entire space. Mark truly builds some world-renowned subs!

Art bought his projector from me last May, which was the first phase of this upgrade. But yes he is close to his one year mark with the 5000ES. projector!

This was attacked as a team effort with Art leading the charge. Art never takes his eye off the ball, and remained very involved throughout the entire process. It was with him involvement that we were able to make sure we delivered a final product he was thrilled with.


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So you made your dream come true, followed into Theo's footsteps.
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post #42 of 152 Old 05-13-2017, 08:16 AM
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So you made your dream come true, followed into Theo's footsteps.


Not sure that I'm at his design level yet aesthetically! But the thought is nice.

It's certainly nice to do what you love. And love what you do!


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post #43 of 152 Old 05-13-2017, 09:58 AM
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It was your first topic/post on AVS, I also remember you posting Peter's designs being an inspiration, so I thought let's check, as in the beginning Chris was not yet a AV Company, just designing his own theater(s), wasn't he. And my memory served me right you were still in other (unspecified) business then.

And following the footsteps, does not specifiy how far behind one trails, lol. I am sure you are doing well, as Art is a descerning customer.
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post #44 of 152 Old 05-13-2017, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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What I like is Chris takes what you want, what you prioritize, and then facilitates the making of that. He grasped very quickly the things which mattered to me and the things which were say number eight on the list and made sure, as he worked, that that didn't get flip flopped for him or others working for me.


I have other changes in mind but they will have to wait for technology in some areas to come up a bit first.


Art
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post #45 of 152 Old 05-15-2017, 02:06 PM
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Awesome! I have had the M2s in my room for a few months now and they are superb. Along with 4 F18s and 2 SubMs the room has quite some impact as well. Unfortunately, I can only hope one day to have a dedicated room, because right now I can hear way too many rattles while my hair shakes.

Congrats!
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post #46 of 152 Old 05-16-2017, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DreamWarrior View Post
Awesome! I have had the M2s in my room for a few months now and they are superb. Along with 4 F18s and 2 SubMs the room has quite some impact as well. Unfortunately, I can only hope one day to have a dedicated room, because right now I can hear way too many rattles while my hair shakes.

Congrats!
My son was on the porch and he said the whole house was shaking. The only issue is knowing when you've really done enough. I'm not so sure such a place exists.

Art
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post #47 of 152 Old 05-16-2017, 07:32 PM
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My son was on the porch and he said the whole house was shaking. The only issue is knowing when you've really done enough. I'm not so sure such a place exists.

Art
This one for the mothers who tolerate our hobby... a few days too late for mothers day...
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post #48 of 152 Old 05-16-2017, 08:37 PM
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My son was on the porch and he said the whole house was shaking. The only issue is knowing when you've really done enough. I'm not so sure such a place exists.

Art
Yeah, I'm sure! I don't care if the whole thing shakes, I just don't want to hear it while it does, lol. If I play a bass-heavy song with less highs to cover up the "other noises" then I hear the windows, the dishes, the pictures, etc all rattling. It annoys me.
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post #49 of 152 Old 05-21-2017, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Not for the faint of heart I think this box weighed over 600lbs !


Art
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post #50 of 152 Old 05-21-2017, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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This is what I was talking about with everything showing up at once thanks to Chris Cooley it worked out great.
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post #51 of 152 Old 05-22-2017, 10:47 AM
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I too got a kloss novabeam in 1980, the table model in light oak. I wish they had planned the product a bit better, first it only had like 9 or 12 convergence zones, not very easy to tune. Second the operating knobs where on top side of a coffee table without any spillguard rim,, if your drunk friend at a party would try to put down his Finlandia Seabreeze on the table, guess what could happen. Yup mine was RIP in 1983
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post #53 of 152 Old 05-23-2017, 07:02 AM
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Don't know if AVS/Wilkinson still do the Home Theater of the Month videos,


but Art's latest iteration should be nominated!

I assume someone else would do the filming for you, Art

...or tap Mr. Hahn's cinematography expertise (In other words, will Hahn shoot first? )
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post #54 of 152 Old 05-23-2017, 11:27 AM
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What is the model number of the Triad in wall surrounds replaced with the JBL's?

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post #55 of 152 Old 05-23-2017, 03:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
I too got a kloss novabeam in 1980, the table model in light oak. I wish they had planned the product a bit better, first it only had like 9 or 12 convergence zones, not very easy to tune. Second the operating knobs where on top side of a coffee table without any spillguard rim,, if your drunk friend at a party would try to put down his Finlandia Seabreeze on the table, guess what could happen. Yup mine was RIP in 1983

Yep, I had that happen but for some reason they covered the repair. It had that smoked plastic cover over the controls that would allow you to safely set a book ,magazine or ashtray but drinks you were asking for it.


Art
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post #56 of 152 Old 05-23-2017, 05:09 PM
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I too got a kloss novabeam in 1980, the table model in light oak.
Nice beard and 'fro, Cineramax!
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post #57 of 152 Old 05-23-2017, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
I too got a kloss novabeam in 1980, the table model in light oak. I wish they had planned the product a bit better, first it only had like 9 or 12 convergence zones, not very easy to tune. Second the operating knobs where on top side of a coffee table without any spillguard rim,, if your drunk friend at a party would try to put down his Finlandia Seabreeze on the table, guess what could happen. Yup mine was RIP in 1983
I was 1 year old in 1980, old man
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post #58 of 152 Old 05-23-2017, 10:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post
I was 1 year old in 1980, old man
Only in the flesh, in my mind I am still a teenager, and all my girlfriends are born after 1985, so who's the old man?

By the way I sold my first video projector (handbuilt) and my first surround system in 1980, good year! Exactly a year after I put the words HOME CINEMA in a business card for the first time!
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Last edited by CINERAMAX; 05-23-2017 at 11:54 PM.
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post #59 of 152 Old 05-23-2017, 11:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Rgb View Post
Nice beard and 'fro, Cineramax!
Mine was overlooking the ocean to the side on Condado beach PR.25th floor PH in the beige building.(bottom left center)



My PH was only 700 sq f but similar view. Now You See why I have been pining for stunning WCG HDR image aesthetics my whole adult life; it wasn't till ces 2016 that finally my life work has been vindicated.



I still vividly remember my drunk friend trying to dance and stumble in slow motion with a tall orange cranberry drink emptying into that control panel. 3,200 very hard saved money gone in 3 seconds.



Its funny that I have been attempting the concept for so long, looks like in two years my clients buildings in Miami undergoing construction (the tallest south of manhattan) will FINALLY present the perfect opportunity.


And Quadraphonic recordings I was spinning mc lpcm quad recordings upmixed in neural x to Taker and his son Luke the other day, his jaw was wide ajar.:
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Last edited by CINERAMAX; 05-24-2017 at 12:32 AM.
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post #60 of 152 Old 05-24-2017, 03:39 AM
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...and $3200 in 1980 is ~$10K today- I'd lose a friend over that!
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