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post #151 of 190 Old 02-19-2018, 01:02 PM
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I miss Peter hopefully he is pardoned soon by the powers to be at this forum.
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post #152 of 190 Old 02-19-2018, 02:33 PM
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I miss Peter hopefully he is pardoned soon by the powers to be at this forum.
Was he banned? If so, why?
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post #153 of 190 Old 02-19-2018, 03:08 PM
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Was he banned? If so, why?
Yes he was, I am not sure of the details, but it was a while back.
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post #154 of 190 Old 02-19-2018, 03:23 PM
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Yeah, I’ve been following him on Twitter. A shame he is no longer here. We miss him on the Strato thread. He also sometimes posts on the K owners site. SJ
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post #155 of 190 Old 02-19-2018, 04:00 PM
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post #156 of 190 Old 02-19-2018, 04:09 PM
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Thanks. Just registered....SJ
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post #157 of 190 Old 03-05-2018, 12:54 PM
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Cineramax Speakers at The Oscars

@SJHT you are in luck, Peter pointed out to me that Quested Speakers were used up front and center at the oscars, demonstrated in this short movie featured at the Oscars.

Quested has designed and produced nine purpose specific bespoke models for CINERAMAX. These will be used in SOLFAR the First Samsung the Wall installation next August.






Every speaker in SOLFAR the finest movie and music playback system to be ever installed in California are bespoke designed for CINERAMAX by Quested. In this lovely video Composer Hans Zimmer is showing off his Quested Speakers, in his studio.

A near field optimized audio system Peter is looking to upstage in "The California Penthouse Cinema Of The Future".

Bastardom rank envelopment needs to limit the audience width to no more than 10 feet. It thus becomes nearfield, and because a system that cannot play quadraphonic at its best will be a slouch at atmos, and because multidirectional concussive bass (as having all speakers going down to 40Hz near field) trumps one note bass any day.



Peter tells me this room's speakers go down to 40hz, "therefore exciting the chest cavity not with a singular slam as argued in the forum , but whacked from every angle due to near field deployment. The chest cavity i discovered is a multidirectional trajectory high precision simul-sensor. Easily proven".

Roger Quested is the Master Of Nearfield, from his first implementation of a Quadraphonics studio in the UK.





Solfar the CINERAMAX penthouse Cinema will also be the First Samsung The Wall installation. It is scheduled to be ready in time for CEDIA 2018. Location is across the street from the CEDIA venue in San Diego.

https://www.cnet.com/videos/samsungs...lled-the-wall/



Some current renders of Peter CINERAMAX design. The completely envelloping character focus of the audio on a single narrow row of seats and nearness of the abundance of speakers speak of the Selfishness of Peter's design.






Peter says he hopes to see you, his Friends, at CEDIA Time in SOLFAR the First Samsung The Wall Home Theater, with omni directonal full field, including base down to 40 Hertz Immersive Audio. Using ribbon speakers Designed by Roger Quested for this theater. It overlooks the CEDIA convention center in San Diego.
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post #158 of 190 Old 03-05-2018, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by donaldk View Post
@SJHT you are in luck, Peter pointed out to me that Quested Speakers were used up front and center at the oscars, demonstrated in this short movie featured at the Oscars.

Quested has designed and produced nine purpose specific bespoke models for CINERAMAX. These will be used in SOLFAR the First Samsung the Wall installation next August.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0yFHrpaUnI



Every speaker in SOLFAR the finest movie and music playback system to be ever installed in California are bespoke designed for CINERAMAX by Quested. In this lovely video Composer Hans Zimmer is showing off his CINERAMAX Speakers, in his studio.

A near field optimized audio system Peter is looking to upstage in "The California Penthouse Cinema Of The Future".

Bastardom rank envelopment needs to limit the audience width to no more than 10 feet. It thus becomes nearfield, and because a system that cannot play quadraphonic at its best will be a slouch at atmos, and because multidirectional concussive bass (as having all speakers going down to 40Hz near field) trumps one note bass any day.



Peter tells me this room's speakers go down to 40hz, "therefore exciting the chest cavity not with a singular slam as argued in the forum , but whacked from every angle due to near field deployment. The chest cavity i discovered is a multidirectional trajectory high precision simul-sensor. Easily proven".

Roger Quested is the Master Of Nearfield, from his first implementation of a Quadraphonics studio in the UK.





Solfar the CINERAMAX penthouse Cinema will also be the First Samsung The Wall installation. It is scheduled to be ready in time for CEDIA 2018. Location is across the street from the CEDIA venue in San Diego.

https://www.cnet.com/videos/samsungs...lled-the-wall/



Some current renders of Peter CINERAMAX design. The completely envelloping character focus of the audio on a single narrow row of seats and nearness of the abundance of speakers speak of the Selfishness of Peter's design.






Peter says he hopes to see you, his Friends, at CEDIA Time in SOLFAR the First Samsung The Wall Home Theater, with omni directonal full field, including base down to 40 Hertz Immersive Audio. Using ribbon speakers Designed by Roger Quested for this theater. It overlooks the CEDIA convention center in San Diego.
Donald,

Thank you for sharing. Peter is definitely doing some innovative work here.

Bryan
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post #159 of 190 Old 03-06-2018, 11:51 AM
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I miss Peter hopefully he is pardoned soon by the powers to be at this forum.
I miss Peter so much! Its not nearly as exciting around these parts without his quips!
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post #160 of 190 Old 03-06-2018, 01:02 PM
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Peter is super busy. This was the first time I got a chance to speak via email with him this year.
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post #161 of 190 Old 03-07-2018, 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by donaldk View Post
In this lovely video Composer Hans Zimmer is showing off his CINERAMAX Speakers, in his studio.
These are the ordinary Quested studio monitors that have been around for years. They have nothing to do with Cineramax except that this Hans Zimmer setup probably inspired Cineramax to push Quested in a more home theater direction. I am not surprised that Cineramax takes the credit for these Quested speakers though, same story all over again. That said, I miss having him around here too, and I am glad he is busy.
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post #162 of 190 Old 03-07-2018, 04:41 AM
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These are the ordinary Quested studio monitors that have been around for years. They have nothing to do with Cineramax except that this Hans Zimmer setup probably inspired Cineramax to push Quested in a more home theater direction. I am not surprised that Cineramax takes the credit for these Quested speakers though, same story all over again. That said, I miss having him around here too, and I am glad he is busy.
Indeed they are. I edited it for correctness almost immediately, but overlooked the second mention, thanks for pointing this out, will rectify my misunderstanding.Roger Quested designed 9 models for the Cineramax Penthouse theater. These will be what is used throughout Solfar. The Theater rendered above.
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post #163 of 190 Old 03-07-2018, 05:48 AM
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I do think hanz zimmer is good and I'm sure quested are also good. I'm not sure that the celebrity endorsement really helps matters however.

In the near-field speaker speaker area, there are a TON of options available and increasingly higher quality options are being found at lower prices too...

Maybe I am crazy, but as an owner of a very decent atmos system, I find most movies don't have convincing atmos immersion baked into them. Most of them are still targeting mainly the front speaker channels while doing very little with the surround package in order to keep your eyes on the screen/dialogue. Only on the atmos test disc or on a video game is there really a lot of point sources being demonstrated. Bugs in a swamp or birds flying around, etc ...

If anyone has an exceptional Atmos movie from an immersion standpoint, I'm all ears...

That being said, the goal of an ultra-pinpoint MLP immersion experience seems a bit fishy. The MLP is already the main point of envelopment and almost anything you do with your atmos speakers keeps the MLP ranked highest due to the fact that it is in the center. Show me a home atmos system that is optimize for "all seats"... In a commercial theater environment they might replicate certain channels in order to provide a more even experience at the expense of pinpoint but in most movies I bet you wouldn't even notice since the source material is generally not doing a lot in the side/ceiling/rear.

Any speakers behind your head sound so diffuse that they barely contribute to your envelopment sense either way.

I guess my point is that the money expenditure (which I can certainly attest to) is silly for most of the channel count in the name of envelopment and detail which you are NOT going to get from movie studies. Even gaming tracks probably won't spend enough time on atmos development since most gamers (kids) don't have an atmos setup.

After learning all these lessons, our recent project design with my brother's new house is going to be an entire set of DIYSG speakers (23 channels). At that price point, you can afford things like 5 front stage speakers and full complement of speakers. Also, since the flat packs are designed generally for slim-fit, you can really fit a LOT of speaker in a fairly small footprint.

With the DIYSG stuff, you could get a VERY good setup of over 20 speakers for around $5-10k (without subs). With competent speaker design, you could even do horn loaded ribbon tweeters which would really sound both transparent and have directional control too. I'll confess I have not yet heard ribbon vs compression drivers from them to really compare. We are kinda in that process now.

While Cineramax does all sorts of cutting edge "cool stuff", I'm not sure I would shell out a million bucks for it unless I was worth $100mil or more and just didn't want to do anything myself. Even then, there are very competent room designers/builders out there for likely far less money.

When you get into those levels of money, you could design a room with chocked full with resonators, traps, treatments, room-within-a-room, and all sorts of tricks to get better frequency responses. You should easily be able to do ULF levels of bass. You can easily get multi-seat bass response. You can easily get near field tactile subs in the budget.

What he spends on amps is just audiophilia nonsense. You give a huge budget and I would have a Benchmark AHB2 for every pair of channels. Even that is too pricey tho. Next up would be the super quiet amps based on Hypex Ncore modules. These are available now from companies like NAD and ATI. With lower sensitivity speakers (where hiss is less of a concern), even a full set of pro-amplifiers like crown XLS 2 would be quite good.

I do like his home theater seats where the headrest does not block the surround speakers tho... not sure why more manufacturers haven't done that yet.

Anyway, I guess he has to sell something to his niche customers.

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post #164 of 190 Old 03-07-2018, 07:22 AM
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Maybe I am crazy, but as an owner of a very decent atmos system, I find most movies don't have convincing atmos immersion baked into them. Most of them are still targeting mainly the front speaker channels while doing very little with the surround package in order to keep your eyes on the screen/dialogue. Only on the atmos test disc or on a video game is there really a lot of point sources being demonstrated. Bugs in a swamp or birds flying around, etc ...
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Any speakers behind your head sound so diffuse that they barely contribute to your envelopment sense either way.
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I guess my point is that the money expenditure (which I can certainly attest to) is silly for most of the channel count in the name of envelopment and detail which you are NOT going to get from movie studies.
So a question to @blazar and anyone else who would care to chime in. Assuming you came from a room with more traditional Atmos speaker count (e.g. 7.X.4) and moved to, say, 11.X.8, what percent of immersion improvement do you think you are actually achieving? I know this is very, very subjective but let me tell you why I am asking.

I have ordered new speakers and amps (and processor) to move from 7.X.4 to 9.X.6. Given some of @blazar 's comments, I am wondering if I might get almost identical performance by keeping the Datasat and making my "wides" discrete by giving up the discrete rears (and making them "copies" of the sides) and give up the top center speakers and make them "copies" of the either the top front or or top rear speakers.

As I have stated elsewhere, the immersion I get now with my RS20i is phenomenal and I truly have trouble believing that the addition of these 4 speakers is going to take me to audio nirvana.

I might be more convinced I was making a true upgrade in immersion if I was going to, for example, 20.X.8 but that is not in the cards

I look forward to your comments.

PS. I have no intention of not moving ahead with the Trinnov but am very curious as to what I will end up with when all is said and done.

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post #165 of 190 Old 03-07-2018, 02:23 PM
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So a question to @blazar and anyone else who would care to chime in. Assuming you came from a room with more traditional Atmos speaker count (e.g. 7.X.4) and moved to, say, 11.X.8, what percent of immersion improvement do you think you are actually achieving? I know this is very, very subjective but let me tell you why I am asking.

I have ordered new speakers and amps (and processor) to move from 7.X.4 to 9.X.6. Given some of @blazar 's comments, I am wondering if I might get almost identical performance by keeping the Datasat and making my "wides" discrete by giving up the discrete rears (and making them "copies" of the sides) and give up the top center speakers and make them "copies" of the either the top front or or top rear speakers.

As I have stated elsewhere, the immersion I get now with my RS20i is phenomenal and I truly have trouble believing that the addition of these 4 speakers is going to take me to audio nirvana.

I might be more convinced I was making a true upgrade in immersion if I was going to, for example, 20.X.8 but that is not in the cards

I look forward to your comments.

PS. I have no intention of not moving ahead with the Trinnov but am very curious as to what I will end up with when all is said and done.


I guess let me rephrase what I said. We are actually building a theater in my brother's new design so we are literally "doing it all over again" and I have some opinions of how we are going to deploy our money.

a) i am good with the high channel counts, just not convinced at cineramax's extreme expenditure for channels and amps compared to cheaper options like DIYSG speakers where possible. Just because we have an Altitude does not automatically mean that we can't save on speakers with DIY options if they are very good.
b) I am not that impressed yet with the immersion of many movies but I think they might get better at it is time goes on. I wasn't suggesting not bothering with the channel counts.

Here are the channels that I think are most useful in order of effect:

2 Stereo mains
1 center
2 side surrounds (the ones directly to the left and right)
4 ceiling speakers
2 rear side surrounds (these are obviously more important without atmos but with atmos I think the ceiling makes a bigger effect)
6 more ceiling speakers and 2 more behind-the-screen speakers
2 surround wide speakers (i think the benefit of these depends on the specific content and also the type of mains you have). I thought these were much more useful when DTS had its 11 channel matrix mode. With atmos, the ceiling speakers and whatnot have so much more going on that the wides become less noticeable to me).
2 rear wall speakers (just because the channels are available)


1 subwoofer output (the subs otherwise being managed by a behringer ultradrive or minidsp with programming of PEQ derived from andyC's MSO process software or simply set the delays of the subs manually based on MLP.
3-4 subwoofers for maximizing possibilities for MSO optimization - one of these could be behind MLP for near field effect
1 mid bass module per seat in order to get a great tactile pressure wave in near field

We are looking at aiming the side wall surrounds at the farthest away seat so that nearby seats are getting off-axis response which is not as loud. This is to prevent the distraction of sitting too close to surrounds.

I still think the altitude and its optimizer are otherwise great at getting all the speakers to EQ cohesively for similar freq response but I would imagine you get a lot of that effect with a datasat too. I don't know enough about the datasat to comment on comparisons.

As far as audio nirvana goes, I have 19 discreet channels now and I like it a lot. I haven't tried any less channels since I got all my ceiling height speakers at the same time. In our new build we are using all the channels of the trinnov altitude 24 and doing an AT screen (mine is roll down with center speaker below)

We are considering the entire speaker package from DIYSG (titans, volts, and others). we almost finished building a pair of titans and we are going to test them out and then proceed based on our review of them.

I find the

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post #166 of 190 Old 03-07-2018, 03:55 PM
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Solfar looks incredible!! Peter is ever the trail blazer. Thanks for posting @donaldk .

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post #167 of 190 Old 03-07-2018, 08:13 PM
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Here are the channels that I think are most useful in order of effect:

2 Stereo mains
1 center
2 side surrounds (the ones directly to the left and right)
4 ceiling speakers
2 rear side surrounds (these are obviously more important without atmos but with atmos I think the ceiling makes a bigger effect)
6 more ceiling speakers and 2 more behind-the-screen speakers
2 surround wide speakers (i think the benefit of these depends on the specific content and also the type of mains you have). I thought these were much more useful when DTS had its 11 channel matrix mode. With atmos, the ceiling speakers and whatnot have so much more going on that the wides become less noticeable to me).
2 rear wall speakers (just because the channels are available)
I appreciate the input. Very interesting. So TEN ceiling speakers before wides? Maybe I should have posed this question PRIOR to buying speakers I could easily get to 8 heights with 2 more over the L+R but my current rear heights are REALLY close to my rear surrounds already and there would be no more room up front if I added 2 over the L+R. I will just have to see what 9.X.6 sounds like vs 7.X.4 and maybe in a few years consider if I need more.
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post #168 of 190 Old 03-07-2018, 08:29 PM
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I appreciate the input. Very interesting. So TEN ceiling speakers before wides? Maybe I should have posed this question PRIOR to buying speakers I could easily get to 8 heights with 2 more over the L+R but my current rear heights are REALLY close to my rear surrounds already and there would be no more room up front if I added 2 over the L+R. I will just have to see what 9.X.6 sounds like vs 7.X.4 and maybe in a few years consider if I need more.
well for ceiling speakers, the absolute best thing you can do right now is first get enough for effective Auro 3D, DTS X, and Atmos to be able to use the particular ceiling speakers.

In a 10 speaker config with Altitude, the ceiling speakers on the far front and far rear are basically only for Auro3D and Atmos. Dts X is limited to only 4 ceiling speakers right now (the middle set). only atmos can use all 10 with trinnov's setup.

You could definitely get away with a minumum of 8 speakers but you want very specific locations for those or the altitude's optimizer cannot compensate appropriately. I see no reason at all to do less than 8 as a bare minimum on the altitude.

You could also put in a voice of god speaker in the middle while you are at it whether you use it or not. DTS will probably use it in the future along with auro3d now. the practical use of this will be rare right now however. DTS is stupid now as it is channel count limited to 11 speakers total.

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post #169 of 190 Old 03-08-2018, 01:26 AM
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Bastardom rank envelopment needs to limit the audience width to no more than 10 feet.

That jibes with the maximum row width (dictated by width of the Top Middle overhead pair) of a 9.1.6 F.A.I.L (format agnostic immersive layout, see here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...l#post55125196) when ceiling speakers are at 8 feet above listeners' ears, which translates to a ceiling height of about 12 feet ...

A good idea and understanding lies at the base of every successful project.

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post #170 of 190 Old 03-08-2018, 01:39 AM
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Peter has no qualms with DIY, in fact he was one of the promotors of the SMX screen, and able to supply it after the owner withdrew from view. As there is/was an engineer that can design and built that motorized maskingscreen.

As for speakers Peter tends to design systems that have the ability to 'Annoy the neighbours' when used in non dedicated rooms, in non-freestanding homes. This is part of the envelloping sound, the immersion. They are more expensive as they are not to blow up under the strain.

For non-ATMOS content there are other solutions. As listed in blazar's post above.

Maikel you and Peter had very extensive multi-format lay-out discussions here in the past, based on Peter's designs for a few multi-format immersive audio rooms. Sharing views.

Peter has been designing audio systems for non transparant screens for 30-40 years, including the more tricky (for audio) Torus screens. So I am confident his systems will work with The Wall.
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post #171 of 190 Old 04-04-2018, 03:42 AM
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Peter lives!!


Back To The Future - post pics and link these videos.

Solfar Grand Overlook-alcons-holiday inn express

3 visitors to the HIE opine.

With Mr. Blofeld at CES.

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Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #172 of 190 Old 04-05-2018, 07:49 AM
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Jeff the Gangsta C dossier is even larger. Got a hacked file dump courtesy of wikileaks. So, we get to see where he is going:
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post #173 of 190 Old 04-05-2018, 08:08 AM
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The file is extensive, so here's part two:
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post #174 of 190 Old 04-05-2018, 08:44 AM
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And the Wall, Peter sure has been busy:

This one brings back memories, Peter being lured again by the sirens

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Attached Files
File Type: pdf CINERAMAX OVERLOOK TASKS W PARADISE T- BLOFELD LAIR.pdf (92.0 KB, 26 views)
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post #175 of 190 Old 04-05-2018, 10:31 AM
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Ha! Thanks for the mega dump. Missed that!

He makes a compelling argument for wides!!
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Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #176 of 190 Old 04-06-2018, 01:48 PM
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Peter seems to have been reworking the ceiling speaker lay-out with speakers angled to the main row/seat(s), following the selfish bastard design principle.


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post #177 of 190 Old 04-07-2018, 10:37 AM
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The Dir is still open.



Platform for the seating.
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post #178 of 190 Old 04-07-2018, 05:16 PM
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Great stuff.

JBL Pro Cinema/JTR/JVC/Denon/Oppo/Roku Ultra/Elite Screens/Furman/Seatcraft/Acoustimac/AudioQuest
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post #179 of 190 Old 04-07-2018, 06:11 PM
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I'm not for anyone being banned, and certainly Peter no doubt contributed a lot of info. That said, his posts always struck me as a never ending stream of self-promotion and I sometimes wondered "how is he getting away with this?" on the forum.

Maybe the plug was finally pulled?

Again, not that I wish his banning at all. The more the merrier, all points of view welcome, I say.
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post #180 of 190 Old 04-08-2018, 06:43 AM
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@Reddig more great stuff, smaller canopy with speaker arrangement optimised for five levels, 29.2 DTS-X.
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