Barco Loki Vs Sony 5000 Vs Balder Vs Vivitek - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 257 Old 10-17-2019, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
This is the thing ,you will have to shell out $425,000 for a screen 10.5' wide in micro LED right now. We really still don't know what the cost will be for the Eclispe but when it comes it will easily light up a 14' wide screen. My room has a 16' wide screen and I can't imagine how much a micro LED that size would cost but I think it would be around 1.5 million. The issue I see is that the longer Christie waits on this the less likely it will make any sense despite its unbelievable performance capabilities.

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Yes I see what your saying. I wonder how long it will take for a Micro LED screen the size you want for your room to come down to the price of the Christie Eclipse? Factoring in the front end change of our audio layout too. Guess thats one of the million dollar questions right now. Would reckon you have to go down a bit in size for audio constraints to a 14' or 15' screen?

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post #242 of 257 Old 10-17-2019, 09:58 PM
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IIRC JBL was demonstrating speakers above the screen as their solution at Cedia '18. I believe Floyd Toole has mentioned the same.

Trying to figure out how quickly microleds come down in price is a fun game. Arrow and others think it will take years. On the flip side, no one thought flat panels would plummet in price as quickly as they did. My biggest gripe with microleds are the seams.
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post #243 of 257 Old 10-18-2019, 04:05 AM
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What are you replacing it with?


Sony 5000. It’s bit of price jump, but my kids getting a college education is so overrated . I enjoyed the Barco, just thought I would squeeze for more performance. I was waiting on successor to 5000, but there wasn’t one (as everyone knows). Rather than waiting for another year or two, thought I would pull trigger. And knowing me, if something comes out in 2 years, I would probably switch.


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post #244 of 257 Old 10-18-2019, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post
IIRC JBL was demonstrating speakers above the screen as their solution at Cedia '18. I believe Floyd Toole has mentioned the same.

Trying to figure out how quickly microleds come down in price is a fun game. Arrow and others think it will take years. On the flip side, no one thought flat panels would plummet in price as quickly as they did. My biggest gripe with microleds are the seams.
Yes I believe its very similar to their commercial cinema solution for the Onyx screen.

Id tend to agree with you that I think the Micro LEDs will come down in price quicker then expected. Id say 3-5 years they will be almost half of now. I could be very wrong but its fun to guess.

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post #245 of 257 Old 10-18-2019, 05:08 PM
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Only compared to the Barco Thor at the end of June.


Art
How did the Thor compare to your single 5000ES and then to your 5000ES stack? Your new set up has me thinking about adding another 5000 and lumen. Also wondered if the convergence drifts, especially if using motorized aspect ratios?

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FS: Seymour Screen Excellence 4K 137” diagonal masking Screen Reduced: $1995.00:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/218-di...l#post53049130
FS: Sony VPL VW5000ES. Two Weeks old REDUCED: $ 32,900.00
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/218-di...-ve5000es.html
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post #246 of 257 Old 10-18-2019, 07:42 PM
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Barco Loki Vs Sony 5000 Vs Balder Vs Vivitek

Quote:
Originally Posted by adidadi View Post
How did the Thor compare to your single 5000ES and then to your 5000ES stack? Your new set up has me thinking about adding another 5000 and lumen. Also wondered if the convergence drifts, especially if using motorized aspect ratios?


Im sure Art will comment on the comparison to the Thor, but using lens memories with a stack is out of the question. You have to keep a fixed lens position and use something like a Lumagen for scaling. Even varying the laser power of the projectors will cause drift.


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post #247 of 257 Old 10-18-2019, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidadi View Post
How did the Thor compare to your single 5000ES and then to your 5000ES stack? Your new set up has me thinking about adding another 5000 and lumen. Also wondered if the convergence drifts, especially if using motorized aspect ratios?


Im sure Art will comment on the comparison to the Thor, but using lens memories with a stack is out of the question. You have to keep a fixed lens position and use something like a Lumagen for scaling. Even varying the laser power of the projectors will cause drift.


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Well that makes perfect sense. Figured it’d be impossible without a convergence camera or something of the sort.... Thanks for the answer.

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FS: Seymour Screen Excellence 4K 137” diagonal masking Screen Reduced: $1995.00:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/218-di...l#post53049130
FS: Sony VPL VW5000ES. Two Weeks old REDUCED: $ 32,900.00
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/218-di...-ve5000es.html
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post #248 of 257 Old 10-19-2019, 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by adidadi View Post
How did the Thor compare to your single 5000ES and then to your 5000ES stack? Your new set up has me thinking about adding another 5000 and lumen. Also wondered if the convergence drifts, especially if using motorized aspect ratios?
I'm going to repeat a little from a previous post. As Chris said, lens memories are not an option with a stack since the accuracy and precision of the mechanism aren't sufficient to maintain alignment. I find that about once a month or so on average I need to align the projectors. Now that I've had this for a while it takes about ten minutes of my time at most. The initial set up does require the use of the internal alignment software (significantly more arduous) and you would probably want to call on Ken Whitcomb to get this done for you. Subsequent realignment does not require access to this. Even ignoring the size and cost of the Thor, at this point, after two years, I'd do the same thing based on contrast superiority. You don't have to sit there and hope the film you chose might have any low ADL scenes. With the Thor, this is just a shame really. I see all sorts of quoted values for what the contrast modified Thor can get for light output but plus or minus a 5000es stack would be in the same ballpark for lumens.

Another point which may or not matter to you is I'd bet when you decide to move to the next thing selling two 5000es would likely be a much more straight forward experience than selling a Thor.


Art
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post #249 of 257 Old 10-19-2019, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidadi View Post
How did the Thor compare to your single 5000ES and then to your 5000ES stack? Your new set up has me thinking about adding another 5000 and lumen. Also wondered if the convergence drifts, especially if using motorized aspect ratios?
I'm going to repeat a little from a previous post. As Chris said, lens memories are not an option with a stack since the accuracy and precision of the mechanism aren't sufficient to maintain alignment. I find that about once a month or so on average I need to align the projectors. Now that I've had this for a while it takes about ten minutes of my time at most. The initial set up does require the use of the internal alignment software (significantly more arduous) and you would probably want to call on Ken Whitcomb to get this done for you. Subsequent realignment does not require access to this. Even ignoring the size and cost of the Thor, at this point, after two years, I'd do the same thing based on contrast superiority. You don't have to sit there and hope the film you chose might have any low ADL scenes. With the Thor, this is just a shame really. I see all sorts of quoted values for what the contrast modified Thor can get for light output but plus or minus a 5000es stack would be in the same ballpark for lumens.

Another point which may or not matter to you is I'd bet when you decide to move to the next thing selling two 5000es would likely be a much more straight forward experience than selling a Thor.


Art
Thank you Art. It’s nice to know that adding a second 5000 can get close to, or better than the Thor. I suppose the Lumagen can do the exact same zoom from 16x9 to 2.35:1 as the motorized function does, correct? Don’t need a pair of lenses? I’m right at my zoom out limit and it fits perfectly. Would hope Lumagen takes the constant height 16x9 and zooms it wide to fill the scope screen.

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FS: Seymour Screen Excellence 4K 137” diagonal masking Screen Reduced: $1995.00:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/218-di...l#post53049130
FS: Sony VPL VW5000ES. Two Weeks old REDUCED: $ 32,900.00
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/218-di...-ve5000es.html
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post #250 of 257 Old 10-19-2019, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidadi View Post
Thank you Art. It’s nice to know that adding a second 5000 can get close to, or better than the Thor. I suppose the Lumagen can do the exact same zoom from 16x9 to 2.35:1 as the motorized function does, correct? Don’t need a pair of lenses? I’m right at my zoom out limit and it fits perfectly. Would hope Lumagen takes the constant height 16x9 and zooms it wide to fill the scope screen.
The Lumagen is what I'm using and no, not two lenses since it would introduce another factor greatly complicating or even precluding the possibility of tight alignment.

Art
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post #251 of 257 Old 10-27-2019, 06:26 AM
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The Lumagen is what I'm using and no, not two lenses since it would introduce another factor greatly complicating or even precluding the possibility of tight alignment.

Art
While adding two lenses would most certainly complicate (a lot) initial setup, I'm not sure I understand while it would preclude the necessary alignment. (Though, as iterative as the process is for a single lens to get it as close to "perfect" as possible, I can see why even attempting to get two of them identically setup would be considered "almost" impossible. Any chance you could get two "loaners" and see if it works? That would provide a very nice increase in output.

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post #252 of 257 Old 10-27-2019, 07:05 AM
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While adding two lenses would most certainly complicate (a lot) initial setup, I'm not sure I understand while it would preclude the necessary alignment. (Though, as iterative as the process is for a single lens to get it as close to "perfect" as possible, I can see why even attempting to get two of them identically setup would be considered "almost" impossible. Any chance you could get two "loaners" and see if it works? That would provide a very nice increase in output.
I wish you all the luck, really. I've owned a stack, helped set it up and have maintained it for two years. If your primary goal is to babysit a projection system rather than actually using it this would be the surest way to have it. There is no doubt that adding more glass would greatly increase the amount of alignment software manipulation particularly at the periphery which comes with its own set of side effects. Since the 5000es has a notorious reputation for focus drift, not to mention the lens motor mechanism has very coarse adjustment increments relative to something like the Thor, adding another full layer of complexity to initial alignment and touch up is asking for an almost endless loop of maintenance. I get nearly 70fL now so more output is less a goal than is having something I can just fire up and enjoy after a long week.

Art
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post #253 of 257 Old 10-27-2019, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
I wish you all the luck, really. I've owned a stack, helped set it up and have maintained it for two years. If your primary goal is to babysit a projection system rather than actually using it this would be the surest way to have it. There is no doubt that adding more glass would greatly increase the amount of alignment software manipulation particularly at the periphery which comes with its own set of side effects. Since the 5000es has a notorious reputation for focus drift, not to mention the lens motor mechanism has very coarse adjustment increments relative to something like the Thor, adding another full layer of complexity to initial alignment and touch up is asking for an almost endless loop of maintenance. I get nearly 70fL now so more output is less a goal than is having something I can just fire up and enjoy after a long week.

Art
Thanks and I get that. Having owned numerous brands and models of CRT projectors, I understand the frustration that can be part of ALWAYS tinkering to get convergence fixed each time I just wanted to watch a movie. And 70FL is more than twice what I get and I have zero complaints about brightness. (well, that's not completely accurate)

I was not aware of the 5000es has a notorious reputation for focus drift. A perfect reason for not adding another piece into the video chain.

Thanks for your reply and you most certainly answered my question.
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post #254 of 257 Old 11-08-2019, 09:40 AM
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Hi ..

are Barco release and new FW to the Balder..Loki..etc?

One of the thing I don’t like with Barco hard to follow about upgrade hope they post the upgrades in there website so the client can follow up


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post #255 of 257 Old 11-09-2019, 02:34 AM
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Hi ..

are Barco release and new FW to the Balder..Loki..etc?

One of the thing I don’t like with Barco hard to follow about upgrade hope they post the upgrades in there website so the client can follow up


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The latest FW release was 1.8.39 that perform much better than before .
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post #256 of 257 Old 11-09-2019, 02:45 AM
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The latest FW release was 1.8.39 that perform much better than before .


I think that’s what I have i receive it last Jun but I think Barco lunch another one by the end of year the problem is always should contact the dealer and that’s to annoying it should be clear through website so u can follow the update regular

Thx


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post #257 of 257 Old 11-09-2019, 03:41 AM
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I think that’s what I have i receive it last Jun but I think Barco lunch another one by the end of year the problem is always should contact the dealer and that’s to annoying it should be clear through website so u can follow the update regular

Thx


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That FW still update till now
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