Coming soon: Sony VPL-VW5000ES stacked pair! - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 109 Old 10-31-2017, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Perhaps some iso-pucks. Each one for 20 lbs of weight! About $20 each!

http://www.isoacoustics.com/iso-puck/

The form factor is perfect, but... The 5000 weighs 94 lbs. Each puck has a 20 lb capacity so 4 pucks for the 4 feet would max out at 80 lbs. The projector is 14 lbs over the weight limit, which would hinder the isolation ability of the puck.

These have a similar design to the Stillpoints (but are much cheaper) and have a large weight limit.

http://voodoocable.net/product/compo...ation-systems/

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post #32 of 109 Old 10-31-2017, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
The form factor is perfect, but... The 5000 weighs 94 lbs. Each puck has a 20 lb capacity so 4 pucks for the 4 feet would max out at 80 lbs. The projector is 14 lbs over the weight limit, which would hinder the isolation ability of the puck.

These have a similar design to the Stillpoints (but are much cheaper) and have a large weight limit.

http://voodoocable.net/product/compo...ation-systems/
You can use 5 Isoacoustics iso-pucks, with one at the bottom center of the projector! What I like about this company is that they started out pro audio without overpricing using real science and they have moved into the consumer market more recently. I have a pair of their stands for a pair of Vanatoo Two powered speakers in my home office. just the other week I got five pairs of their Gaia Mark II speaker footers for my 5 Aerial 7t speakers! I am quite impressed! And a lot cheaper than Voodoo - which look like excellent products!
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post #33 of 109 Old 11-10-2017, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
You can use 5 Isoacoustics iso-pucks, with one at the bottom center of the projector! What I like about this company is that they started out pro audio without overpricing using real science and they have moved into the consumer market more recently. I have a pair of their stands for a pair of Vanatoo Two powered speakers in my home office. just the other week I got five pairs of their Gaia Mark II speaker footers for my 5 Aerial 7t speakers! I am quite impressed! And a lot cheaper than Voodoo - which look like excellent products!
In my situation I'm not concerned about vibration per se. The present attachment to the roof trusses negates that but instead how vibration might allow the projectors to move slightly once aligned.


Art

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post #34 of 109 Old 11-11-2017, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I keep thinking of the title of Steely Dan’s “Countdown to Ecstasy” in regards to this project. The modifications to the projector stand have shipped and installation is just days away. I can’t wait!


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post #35 of 109 Old 11-11-2017, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by D6500Ken View Post
I keep thinking of the title of Steely Dan’s “Countdown to Ecstasy” in regards to this project. The modifications to the projector stand have shipped and installation is just days away. I can’t wait!


Ken Whitcomb
We are all getting older. Back years ago in my 20s, my idea of "Countdown to Ecstasy" was much different? Do I have to explain?
But yes, I agree, this Sony 5000ES double stack is indeed now my idea of "Countdown to Ecstacy"!
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post #36 of 109 Old 11-13-2017, 06:29 PM
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^^^

I’m glad I’m not that old yet.

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post #37 of 109 Old 11-13-2017, 11:34 PM
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^^^

I’m glad I’m not that old yet.
Yes you have more “Miles” to go Mr. Miles!😇

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post #38 of 109 Old 11-20-2017, 05:27 AM - Thread Starter
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And so it begins!

Day 1: Remove the VPL-VW1100’s, modify the custom stand (thanks Scott Horton), and install the stacked 5000’s.


Ken Whitcomb
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post #39 of 109 Old 11-20-2017, 06:33 AM
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And so it begins!

Day 1: Remove the VPL-VW1100’s, modify the custom stand (thanks Scott Horton), and install the stacked 5000’s.


Ken Whitcomb
This is more exciting that "Justice League"!!!

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post #40 of 109 Old 11-20-2017, 11:01 AM
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Hi Ken:

How can you manage 2.0 CIA with this setup, obviously lens memory will never work, are you constrained to 1.78 or 2.35 fixed?
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post #41 of 109 Old 11-20-2017, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
This is more exciting that "Justice League"!!!
From what I've read that may be true... Too much CGI and Batfleck is just bad... Bring back Christian Bale!

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #42 of 109 Old 11-20-2017, 02:15 PM
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From what I've read that may be true... Too much CGI and Batfleck is just bad... Bring back Christian Bale!
I think you summed up the movie well!! Unfortunately. Not that it was bad. But not in league with Wonder Woman and I didn't like it as much as Batman v. Superman!

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post #43 of 109 Old 11-20-2017, 03:29 PM
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I think you summed up the movie well!! Unfortunately. Not that it was bad. But not in league with Wonder Woman and I didn't like it as much as Batman v. Superman!

Wow, a new low I thought we had reached the bottom.
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post #44 of 109 Old 11-23-2017, 02:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LJG View Post
How can you manage 2.0 CIA with this setup, obviously lens memory will never work, are you constrained to 1.78 or 2.35 fixed?
Lon,

This is a 2.40:1 CIH installation. As you noted, lens memory won’t work in a stacked-pair configuration.


Ken Whitcomb

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post #45 of 109 Old 11-23-2017, 09:28 AM
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Lon,



This is a 2.40:1 CIH installation. As you noted, lens memory won’t work in a stacked-pair configuration.





Ken Whitcomb


Seems to me a stack could be made to work with a 2.0 screen.

I have setup a 5000ES projector with a 2.0 aspect non-masking screen for a museum installation.

Since the 1.9 aspect chip is so close to the 2.0 aspect, why not just setup the projector so that the full chip fills the width of the 2.0 screen. Then only a very small amount has to be blanked on the top and bottom.

Then use a Lumagen to scale content for masking.

The projector would alway be projecting an image large enough to fill the whole screen, regardless of top/bottom or left/right masking position.

This way all content, regardless of format would deliver the same fL on screen. It would just require a loss of resolution for 16:9.

I’m pretty sure this is how Ken currently has Art’s theater setup. That way he doesn’t have to deal with Lens memories. Scope delivers full resolution and 16:9 is scaled via the Lumagen.





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post #46 of 109 Old 11-24-2017, 07:00 AM
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Seems to me a stack could be made to work with a 2.0 screen.

I have setup a 5000ES projector with a 2.0 aspect non-masking screen for a museum installation.

Since the 1.9 aspect chip is so close to the 2.0 aspect, why not just setup the projector so that the full chip fills the width of the 2.0 screen. Then only a very small amount has to be blanked on the top and bottom.

Then use a Lumagen to scale content for masking.

The projector would alway be projecting an image large enough to fill the whole screen, regardless of top/bottom or left/right masking position.

This way all content, regardless of format would deliver the same fL on screen. It would just require a loss of resolution for 16:9.

I’m pretty sure this is how Ken currently has Art’s theater setup. That way he doesn’t have to deal with Lens memories. Scope delivers full resolution and 16:9 is scaled via the Lumagen.





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Interesting, I will give that a try and see how it looks, if it looks good I might also be a candidate for stack. I will see how Ken's client, and Art's if he decides to go that route and then may join the party. Thanks Chris for the suggestion. 2.0 CIA or there abouts is mandatory for me.
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post #47 of 109 Old 11-24-2017, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Alright, the installation and preliminary calibration is complete (it took half of Thanksgiving Day to get there). I don’t want to wax too poetic, but experiencing this system is perception-altering!

To fill in some background, the 160” wide curved screen is almost floor-to-ceiling and wall-to-wall in the room. The client recently added additional subwoofers to pressurize the room, as I had recommended based on my experience in other rooms (Art Sonneborn’s and Rob Hahn’s in particular). Since we had been tracking the decline on the SXRD panels in his VPL-VW1100 stack, it became essential to come up with a replacement plan. Based on much experience viewing at Art’s (high 20’s-low 30’s fL), we chose Dolby Cinema (100 nits) as the minimum target for SDR. Since headroom for 3D and HDR were both priorities, we felt a single 5000 would have had to run too hard. Post-calibration, I measured 34.9 fL in SDR and 46.3 fL in 3D.

After Thanksgiving lunch and packing up my gear, we settled in to watch Mad Max Fury Road. My original impression of tha movie in a generic cineplex was underwhelming. I wish I had experienced it this way back then. The continuous occurrence of HDR flame jets, flares, and lightning (sandstorm scene), plus the relentless soundtrack made for a totally immersive experience. When it was over, we sat in somewhat stunned silence before exchanging superlatives. It was so good, that I forgot to take final pictures.


Ken Whitcomb
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post #48 of 109 Old 11-26-2017, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D6500Ken View Post
Alright, the installation and preliminary calibration is complete (it took half of Thanksgiving Day to get there). I don’t want to wax too poetic, but experiencing this system is perception-altering!

To fill in some background, the 160” wide curved screen is almost floor-to-ceiling and wall-to-wall in the room. The client recently added additional subwoofers to pressurize the room, as I had recommended based on my experience in other rooms (Art Sonneborn’s and Rob Hahn’s in particular). Since we had been tracking the decline on the SXRD panels in his VPL-VW1100 stack, it became essential to come up with a replacement plan. Based on much experience viewing at Art’s (high 20’s-low 30’s fL), we chose Dolby Cinema (100 nits) as the minimum target for SDR. Since headroom for 3D and HDR were both priorities, we felt a single 5000 would have had to run too hard. Post-calibration, I measured 34.9 fL in SDR and 46.3 fL in 3D.

After Thanksgiving lunch and packing up my gear, we settled in to watch Mad Max Fury Road. My original impression of tha movie in a generic cineplex was underwhelming. I wish I had experienced it this way back then. The continuous occurrence of HDR flame jets, flares, and lightning (sandstorm scene), plus the relentless soundtrack made for a totally immersive experience. When it was over, we sat in somewhat stunned silence before exchanging superlatives. It was so good, that I forgot to take final pictures.


Ken Whitcomb
Congrats to pulling this project/experiment together successfully! It will be interesting to see if this sets some new trends. I'm sure Art is salivating at the possibility of >40 fL on screen.
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post #49 of 109 Old 11-26-2017, 10:02 AM
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Congrats to pulling this project/experiment together successfully! It will be interesting to see if this sets some new trends. I'm sure Art is salivating at the possibility of >40 fL on screen.

You know me so well ! My desire to do a stack came as such a surprise... Ken likened it to this :








Art
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post #50 of 109 Old 11-26-2017, 03:28 PM
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You know me so well ! My desire to do a stack came as such a surprise... Ken likened it to this :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME








Art

I heard odds in Vegas are 15-1 that within 6 months Art will get the stack!

Also, odds are 4-1 that within 1 year Mani will get the stack!

Also, odds are 1-3 that within 3 years I will get the stack!


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post #51 of 109 Old 11-27-2017, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D6500Ken View Post
Alright, the installation and preliminary calibration is complete (it took half of Thanksgiving Day to get there). I don’t want to wax too poetic, but experiencing this system is perception-altering!

To fill in some background, the 160” wide curved screen is almost floor-to-ceiling and wall-to-wall in the room. The client recently added additional subwoofers to pressurize the room, as I had recommended based on my experience in other rooms (Art Sonneborn’s and Rob Hahn’s in particular). Since we had been tracking the decline on the SXRD panels in his VPL-VW1100 stack, it became essential to come up with a replacement plan.




Ken Whitcomb
Hello Ken,

what a project go on with pictures please!

There can I find more information about the "old" VW 1100 stack ? How you get the pixel "match" done ?
I had a VW 1100 + Isco 1.25 and Lumagen pro on my deep curved V6 Screen right now and think about to get a used VW 1100 to light up HDR in stack a little more...

Best regrads dirk
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post #52 of 109 Old 12-19-2017, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote today from my stack client:

“Reason number 47 of 100 of why life sucks if your projectors don’t have enough light:

The movie Relic. The most unwatchable Blu-ray in history was spellbinding last night!”


Ken Whitcomb
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post #53 of 109 Old 12-19-2017, 04:12 PM
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Quote today from my stack client:

“Reason number 47 of 100 of why life sucks if your projectors don’t have enough light:

The movie Relic. The most unwatchable Blu-ray in history was spellbinding last night!”


Ken Whitcomb

Good to hear he is enjoying it, hope for same for myself in a few days. Did chin ups on enclosure ran sweeps from 10 to 80 Hz this evening with my coffee sitting inside stuff falling off the shelves and walls but coffee remained still in cup. So far so good.


Art
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post #54 of 109 Old 12-20-2017, 03:44 AM
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Interesting experiment. :-)

What about loss of sharpness or convergence alignement issues?
Could you take a macro picture close to the screen?

Also, while the brightness is twice what is was which is great for HDR, now the black floor is also twice a big. Is that not distracting?

Thx,
Florian

ps: i could imagine to 2 the same with 2 "cheap" Epson EH-LS10000 (3000€ used in germany)
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post #55 of 109 Old 12-20-2017, 07:15 AM
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Interesting experiment. :-)

What about loss of sharpness or convergence alignement issues?
Could you take a macro picture close to the screen?

Also, while the brightness is twice what is was which is great for HDR, now the black floor is also twice a big. Is that not distracting?

Thx,
Florian

ps: i could imagine to 2 the same with 2 "cheap" Epson EH-LS10000 (3000€ used in germany)
Florian,
This is not an experiment ,Sony uses this at shows etc. with the 5000 (even using as many as four together). For SDR my intent is to allow me to get a little more output and not have to run the projectors at 100% as I do now thus the black floor will be raised only slightly.

Additionally, FYI I'm only to the point in installation where the basic enclosure has been mounted...that's it.

Art
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post #56 of 109 Old 12-20-2017, 07:22 AM
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Coming soon: Sony VPL-VW5000ES stacked pair!

I thought I would copy over all the info from our intial “trial run” which we did a few weeks ago. This setup was done for Art and myself who both have very large screens and were looking for a way to have more light output for HDR. I know there are multiple other AVS’r waiting to how things turn out after Art’s permanent install!

Previous post I made in 5000 owner’s thread-

After two long days of working on the 5000ES stack with Ken Whitcomb, there is only one thing to say. The effort is certainly worth the reward. It is F***ing incredible!

As good as the 5000ES is, seeing two stacked is like watching a 200" LED flat panel TV.

Living in mostly the digital world, since CRT projectors were a little before my time, I thought what can be so hard. I know I can align a digital projector perfectly, so I just do that twice and I'm done. Well not even close! I certainly couldn't of accomplished this task without Ken.

Even with Ken spending hours on alignment, it was only at about 90% perfect. The corners weren't perfect, and there was a visible loss of sharpness in those areas, especially with text. But yet the rest of the image looked so incredible, I literally couldn't sleep for thinking about how to improve the setup.

I started to go back through some old 5000ES Youtube videos, because I remember Sony having a side by side stack at one of the trade shows. Well it was CES2016, and that video helped fill in the missing piece of the puzzle. While listening to the Sony rep, he explained that the Sony could not only be stacked side by side or over and under, but actually both ways in a quad stack. AND... that Sony had created software to help perfectly align up to 4 units.

So after sending emails out to 5 Sony engineers early this am, they sent back the latest version of Projector Calibration Pro software. This software is the missing piece of the puzzle as it allows alignment of not only Red and Blue, but also of Green, and White (RGB all together). This allows you to perfectly setup one projector as the reference. You then get the second unit lined up as perfectly as possible to the reference. No tilting, no keystoning, no skewing, both must be perfect. This part is 80% of the job. Then you use the software to tweak the image of the second projector to perfectly align with the first. And with Ken in the driver's seat, the only touch-ups that were required was around the perimeter of the image. After this was complete, you absolutely can't tell the difference between one or two units. I spent an hour just having him cover and un-cover one projector as I looked at different 4K still images, and even with my nose to the screen, there is no visible loss of sharpness.

I absolutely am moving forward with a permanent install. This will require a fair amount of work to cut out a wall and install a header, built a larger platform, possibly relocate some electrical and even a plumbing vent. But even if I have to remove a large amount of sheetrock, I intend to get this done.

From the temporary position I could only fill 14' of the 17' wide screen. But with a 14' wide image on ST130 perf (so 1.2 gain) we had 107.2fL. So when I can put them in their permanent location I will have 67fL with ST130 perf or around 50fL with ST100 perf. With a single unit I get 33fL on my 17' wide ST130.

Viewing the stack was honestly like lifting a veil from over the lens. The worst part is going to be dis-assembling the stack and being without it until I can get the room modifications complete and can get Ken back on site.

All I can say is don't look at a stack setup unless you are prepared to move forward, because once you see it there's no turning back. As Art so eloquently told me today, "Once you stack, you never go back"

Pics coming....




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Last edited by ccool96; 12-20-2017 at 07:32 AM.
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post #57 of 109 Old 12-20-2017, 07:23 AM
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These pictures don’t even begin relate what it’s like to see the stack in person. But here’s some pics for fun.



*** All images were taken hand-held with iPhone X so don't expect perfection ***



Also we didn't spend anytime on calibration as this was just a temporary install. So colors could be off and black levels may not be perfectly set. That wasn't our focus. Our only focus was getting two unit perfectly aligned and looking as good as a single unit with double the brightness. That goal was achieved.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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post #58 of 109 Old 12-20-2017, 09:48 AM
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Thank you for updating us cool!

Can you get the exact number of firmware sony cal. pro you used to get that stack worked.
P.S. Unless I think there is still a lot of knowledge and little mystery behind it
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post #59 of 109 Old 12-21-2017, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Latest text from the stack client:

"Nothing, not even a new car, has given me the same feeling 20 days later when I go to use it. Absolutely stunning!"


Ken Whitcomb

Calibrations Inc
Indianapolis, IN

ISF, THX, PVA
Now offering LightSpace CMS 3D LUT calibration
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post #60 of 109 Old 12-21-2017, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D6500Ken View Post
Latest text from the stack client:

"Nothing, not even a new car, has given me the same feeling 20 days later when I go to use it. Absolutely stunning!"


Ken Whitcomb
Ken
Now I will have to sell one of my cars and do the stack. ..
On the brighter side , I will get to meet you again .
Let?s see ...
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