SONY VW885ES / VW760ES : In Depth Review & Comparisons - Page 26 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 2290Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #751 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 09:14 AM
Advanced Member
 
baseball0618's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Chadds Ford PA
Posts: 613
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 421 Post(s)
Liked: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
Cool your jets, what a joke.

I don't actually really want to discuss the RS4500 to be honest, it's why I'm here in this thread. The RS4500 is a solid projector, I have many friends with these , they are super pleased . I would have been too I'm sure If I had gone that way
but for many reasons I chose not to go that way.

Plenty of comparisons going on in the RS4500 thread all the time, I guarantee some of the discussion is not always accurate and certainly contentious . I'm pretty sure I don't see a group of Sony owners over thee are
arguing these contentious remarks , I just find that very interesting .
I am not going back and forth with you it's all in writing above. You clearly misinterpreted my post b/c there is nothing in it that states the RS4500 isn't louder than the 885es as you implied I did. Unlike you I don't quote absolutes about projectors I have only read about. There is nothing contentious about my post either that is your perception since I being the a JVC RS4500 owner posted it. Have a pleasant day
Bandyka likes this.

JVC RS4500 projector/LG 65B7P/LG 55B7P/ Pannasonic UB820/Oppo 203/Oppo 103D/Apple tv 4K
St 130 138" scope screen
Marantz 7704 /Integra DTA 70.1
7.2.2 Atmos (3) B&W CWM 7.3 fronts (4) B&W CCM 7.4 surrounds
(2) B&W CCM 682 Atmos (2) JL Audio E112 subs
baseball0618 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #752 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 09:15 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
roxiedog13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North 48 °
Posts: 3,893
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2754 Post(s)
Liked: 1429
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulOfUniverse View Post
it will directly depend on your room geometry, materials used in walls in relate to reflections, and projector location and viewer.
It's still relative to the noise of each projector. Only the projector changes not the room . Mounted in the same position , within the same room the relative sound from one to the next will be what it is in that room .
Different room same projectors still relative .

Dedicated Theater: Sony VPL VW 885ES , Panamorph DCR & ISCO III L Anamorphic Lens, Draper TecVision XT1800X Screen, 2.40:1 134" diagonal curved , Denon AVR-X8500 , 9.2.6 Atmos, Panasonic UB900, Oppo 203, Lumagen Pro 4440 , (3) Paradigm CI Elite E7-L+C+R fronts, , (2) CI Pro P80-IW Rear, (2) Paradigm SA-ADP In-wall Surround, (6) SIG-1.5R-30 v.3 In-Ceiling, Subwoofers: (2) SVS SB-16 Ultra , SVS PC13-Ultra .
roxiedog13 is offline  
post #753 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 09:23 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,567
Mentioned: 232 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11829 Post(s)
Liked: 9358
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Mori* View Post
@Peak
Nice report
@Mike
I guess Peak wanted to give the readers an indication of what would be the worst case (which is @ 100 laser and that's what he actually was judging):
Lower than a VW520 on high lamp ( I agree. These are much loader)
Lower than Z1 in max level (I agree as well)
@All
It might be argued that the noise level of a VW760 can not properly judged when in the same room a Z1 in max laser is present. No wonder Peak could hardly hear the VW760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peak View Post
How is that not apples to apples? Max sound level on max laser?

I did not want to be part of a brand fight, but to be honest, if you want to have UHD Premium level DCI color space coverage I don't think there is a 40% brightness difference between those two specific alternatives, is there?
Would you compare a VW5000 on max level to a VW760 max level? It would be the same apples to oranges. You would be completely ignoring the huge lumen difference of the VW5000. Arrow made the same statement earlier in this thread, when someone was comparing max noise level of the 4500 to the 885. I am not arguing that the 885 is quiet. It is quiet, I listened to it at CEDIA. Noise level wise it is very good. Sony projectors have always been pretty quiet, especially when compared to the competition. As for the filter in place, you are correct, but I will have to admit, I have tried to compare with and without filter and just do not see a difference, but that could just be me.
OzHDHT, baseball0618 and ARROW-AV like this.
Mike Garrett is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #754 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
We're Nuts About AV
 
ARROW-AV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,202
Mentioned: 229 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3863 Post(s)
Liked: 6300
Quote:
Originally Posted by glabelle17 View Post
Some reviews give the figure based on high lamp and eco mode. Still 30db and below is considered good.
Are those 30dB and below figures the absolute maximum possible operating noise, at 1 metre, and C-weighted? No, they are not. IIRC those are average operating noise levels, A-weighted, at circa 3 metres. So that's comparing apples-with-oranges

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
You have to bear in mind that manufacturers will quote a figure that is the lowest the projector will produce, not the highest. They will also probably A-weight it which produces a lower figure. They will also measure from 3 metres, not 1 metre, which will also make it lower. There is probably no projector out there that can achieve 25dB at one meter C-weighted on max output.

As Nigel said, if most people were to measure a standard room in their own house, they would probably be quite surprised by the level of the general noise floor.
Absolutely spot on Gareth.


Last edited by ARROW-AV; 12-07-2017 at 09:28 AM.
ARROW-AV is online now  
post #755 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
We're Nuts About AV
 
ARROW-AV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,202
Mentioned: 229 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3863 Post(s)
Liked: 6300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Would you compare a VW5000 on max level to a VW760 max level? It would be the same apples to oranges. You would be completely ignoring the huge lumen difference of the VW5000. Arrow made the same statement earlier in this thread, when someone was comparing max noise level of the 4500 to the 885. I am not arguing that the 885 is quiet. It is quiet, I listened to it at CEDIA. Noise level wise it is very good. Sony projectors have always been pretty quiet, especially when compared to the competition. As for the filter in place, you are correct, but I will have to admit, I have tried to compare with and without filter and just do not see a difference, but that could just be me.
The same applies regarding comparing contrast ratios / performance as well. We can't compare the native contrast performance of both the SONY 760/885 versus the JVC Z1/RS4500 with both at maximum light output, because the maximum light outputs are completely different. So the JVC will obviously have less native contrast performance when outputting circa 3,000 lumens as compared with the SONY 760/885 outputting circa 2,000 lumens. Apples-with-oranges. The projectors need to be brightness matched for true apples-with-apples comparisons. The same applies to operating noise levels.

OzHDHT, Mike Garrett, Javs and 1 others like this.
ARROW-AV is online now  
post #756 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 09:45 AM
Advanced Member
 
BakeApples's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 753
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 464 Post(s)
Liked: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Why would you compare sound level of JVC on high with sound level of 760 on high? That is apples to oranges since we are talking a pretty big difference (over 40%) in light output.
So you don’t think it’s interesting to compare noise level at their max capacity? I would guess that most owners of these fine projectors will run them at if not maximal capacity, at least close to max capacity so the way Peak compared them is the only interesting comparison for me at least.
coolgeek and SoulOfUniverse like this.

Sony VPL-VW550 + custom HDR gamma curves | DNP Supernova 08-85 116" 2.35:1 | Pioneer SC-LX89 | AppleTV 4K | Zidoo X20 | PS4 |
BakeApples is offline  
post #757 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 09:54 AM
Advanced Member
 
baseball0618's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Chadds Ford PA
Posts: 613
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 421 Post(s)
Liked: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakeApples View Post
So you don’t think it’s interesting to compare noise level at their max capacity? I would guess that most owners of these fine projectors will run them at if not maximal capacity, at least close to max capacity so the way Peak compared them is the only interesting comparison for me at least.
Your assumption would be incorrect. I would say that at least 60% of the owners in the RS4500 thread use mid laser.

You can compare whatever you want but if the JVC maxed out at 2000 lumens then it's fan would be significantly quieter, as it is in mid laser. So to make the comparison more useful wouldn't it make sense to set them at laser settings that offer somewhat the same light output?

I would never expect a car capable of 600 horsepower at full throttle to sound quieter or equal to one that is 400 horsepower.
OzHDHT likes this.

JVC RS4500 projector/LG 65B7P/LG 55B7P/ Pannasonic UB820/Oppo 203/Oppo 103D/Apple tv 4K
St 130 138" scope screen
Marantz 7704 /Integra DTA 70.1
7.2.2 Atmos (3) B&W CWM 7.3 fronts (4) B&W CCM 7.4 surrounds
(2) B&W CCM 682 Atmos (2) JL Audio E112 subs

Last edited by baseball0618; 12-07-2017 at 10:06 AM.
baseball0618 is offline  
post #758 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 09:55 AM
.NET Solution Architect
 
SoulOfUniverse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Chigwell, Essex, UK
Posts: 844
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 591 Post(s)
Liked: 484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Would you compare a VW5000 on max level to a VW760 max level? It would be the same apples to oranges. You would be completely ignoring the huge lumen difference of the VW5000. Arrow made the same statement earlier in this thread, when someone was comparing max noise level of the 4500 to the 885. I am not arguing that the 885 is quiet. It is quiet, I listened to it at CEDIA. Noise level wise it is very good. Sony projectors have always been pretty quiet, especially when compared to the competition. As for the filter in place, you are correct, but I will have to admit, I have tried to compare with and without filter and just do not see a difference, but that could just be me.


Nevertheless it doesn't stop you comparing noise of Z1 to 5000ES ) even though lumens difference is significant.

Video: Synology 416Play 24TB / OPPO UDP-203 / Zidoo X9S -> Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 -> SONY VPL-VW760ES -> Elite Screen 135'' 16:9 1.1 Max White;
Audio: DENON X3500H -> Dali Zensor 7.1 Dolby Atmos (7, 1, E12F, Vokal, Dolby Alteco C1)
SoulOfUniverse is offline  
post #759 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 10:09 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
roxiedog13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North 48 °
Posts: 3,893
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2754 Post(s)
Liked: 1429
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
The same applies regarding comparing contrast ratios / performance as well. We can't compare the native contrast performance of both the SONY 760/885 versus the JVC Z1/RS4500 with both at maximum light output, because the maximum light outputs are completely different. So the JVC will obviously have less native contrast performance when outputting circa 3,000 lumens as compared with the SONY 760/885 outputting circa 2,000 lumens. Apples-with-oranges. The projectors need to be brightness matched for true apples-with-apples comparisons. The same applies to operating noise levels.

I actually don't think anyone is confusing any apples to oranges . @Peak was just making a comment about the relative difference in terms of the RS4500 advantage . You want more light it makes more noise , if you can deal with that
it has a brightness advantage. 100lb of projector needs mounting considerations . On high it makes a lot of heat and noise at that setting , all has to be considered. The VW760 mounts like other Sony Projectors on the existing mount.
These were important considerations when I made a decision and potential buyers need to know this . When mine shows up it will be mounted within 15 minutes I grantee that . When I considered the
RS4500 the ceiling mount alone was going to require chopping up the sheetroc installing a new support network . Those are some of the realities of comparing these two when mounting in a ceiling overhead .

I don't know of anyone running the RS4500 on high all the time anyway , everyone that I am speaking to is running mid laser and most are also running a screen of 140" or less, majority are less . Essentially the VW760 can do
this too , so for a consumer looking for what the advantage is, this information is good to know . The RS4500 running on high can output more lumens for improved HDR or larger screen, that is where the VW760 looses ground .

Dedicated Theater: Sony VPL VW 885ES , Panamorph DCR & ISCO III L Anamorphic Lens, Draper TecVision XT1800X Screen, 2.40:1 134" diagonal curved , Denon AVR-X8500 , 9.2.6 Atmos, Panasonic UB900, Oppo 203, Lumagen Pro 4440 , (3) Paradigm CI Elite E7-L+C+R fronts, , (2) CI Pro P80-IW Rear, (2) Paradigm SA-ADP In-wall Surround, (6) SIG-1.5R-30 v.3 In-Ceiling, Subwoofers: (2) SVS SB-16 Ultra , SVS PC13-Ultra .
roxiedog13 is offline  
post #760 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 10:14 AM
Advanced Member
 
baseball0618's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Chadds Ford PA
Posts: 613
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 421 Post(s)
Liked: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
I actually don't think anyone is confusing any apples to oranges . @Peak was just making a comment about the relative difference in terms of the RS4500 advantage . You want more light it makes more noise , if you can deal with that
it has a brightness advantage. 100lb of projector needs mounting considerations . On high it makes a lot of heat and noise at that setting , all has to be considered. The VW760 mounts like other Sony Projectors on the existing mount.
These were important considerations when I made a decision and potential buyers need to know this . When mine shows up it will be mounted within 15 minutes I grantee that . When I considered the
RS4500 the ceiling mount alone was going to require chopping up the sheetroc installing a new support network . Those are some of the realities of comparing these two when mounting in a ceiling overhead .

I don't know of anyone running the RS4500 on high all the time anyway , everyone that I am speaking to is running mid laser and most are also running a screen of 140" or less, majority are less . Essentially the VW760 can do
this too , so for a consumer looking for what the advantage is, this information is good to know . The RS4500 running on high can output more lumens for improved HDR or larger screen, that is where the VW760 looses ground .
Now we are on the same page and why if you strip it all down comparing these projectors 5000es-4500-885es is really kind of silly. I get why people want to do it but the truth of the matter is they all have their relative place in the market and as you mention it's all relative to what an individuals needs are in their particular HT.

If you have a 110" screen and think the 885 and RS4500 throw a comparable image then why spend the extra money and inherit the added bulk of the RS4500? Just like if your budget was large enough and you had a 160" screen then you'd probably take the 5000es every-time. Now if your in that 130" to 150" range and don't want to spend 60k then this is where the RS4500 will be an excellent option. I think they all have their place in the market.
Reddig likes this.

JVC RS4500 projector/LG 65B7P/LG 55B7P/ Pannasonic UB820/Oppo 203/Oppo 103D/Apple tv 4K
St 130 138" scope screen
Marantz 7704 /Integra DTA 70.1
7.2.2 Atmos (3) B&W CWM 7.3 fronts (4) B&W CCM 7.4 surrounds
(2) B&W CCM 682 Atmos (2) JL Audio E112 subs

Last edited by baseball0618; 12-07-2017 at 10:21 AM.
baseball0618 is offline  
post #761 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 10:14 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
BOBCAT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 1,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 202 Post(s)
Liked: 193
I know this is Apple to Oranges.
Sony specs my Sony 675es at 26db. It's located above and back about a foot from the seating below.
When I have the brightness flat out while watching a program, don't hear it at all, when the audio is muted, the fan noise is very low.

The one point that is being over looked I believe is the sound frequency of the fan noise which is very low, I think is around 100Hz or so. ( will have to try and measure this).
At this low frequency, it is not objectionable at all as hearing rolls off at these lower frequencies, so in most cases we don't hear it while watching a movie.

The reason why your base speakers level is up high so you can hear the low frequency's.

Now if Sony put a Torin 450 box fan in these, you would have to wear earphones to hear the sound!

The fans that are used in these projectors have a lot of blades so they can run at very low RPM which keeps down the noise.

Just my 2 cents. (US)
BOBCAT is offline  
post #762 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 10:23 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,567
Mentioned: 232 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11829 Post(s)
Liked: 9358
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakeApples View Post
So you don’t think it’s interesting to compare noise level at their max capacity? I would guess that most owners of these fine projectors will run them at if not maximal capacity, at least close to max capacity so the way Peak compared them is the only interesting comparison for me at least.
It all depends on how many lumens you need. It has nothing to do with running them at max. If you need 1,600 lumens, then you look at what the 885 is doing at that output and the same for the 4500. What does it matter, if you are not going to use the higher lumens. You are wanting to penalized one projector, but the other can't even get there and yet you want to ignore that. The VW5000 at max is louder than the 885, so I guess you would always pick the 885 over the 5000. Forget the names. That does not matter to me. Just look at the performance numbers.
Mike Garrett is online now  
post #763 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 10:26 AM
Member
 
glabelle17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Are those 30dB and below figures the absolute maximum possible operating noise, at 1 metre, and C-weighted? No, they are not. IIRC those are average operating noise levels, A-weighted, at circa 3 metres. So that's comparing apples-with-oranges


Absolutely spot on Gareth.

I don't know what the correct way to measure it is. I said that. All I know is that your 52db measurement is very high compared to the specs I see on lots of projectors. i.e. this for the 885/760: Audible Noise: 34.0 dB Eco-Mode: 26.0 dB from Projector Central. For the 52db number you quoted, to be useful for comparison, it has to be in the context of how everyone else measures it. Otherwise without seeing the projector in person, it looks very loud.
*Mori* and roxiedog13 like this.

Spkrs: C B&W 801, L&R 802S3, DM602 surrounds & rears, 2-Velodyne ULD-15 subs; BDP: Oppo 103d PJ: SP-A800B Room: 23 x 16 x 8.6 acoustic sheet rock, flat black, Tube Traps (2), 12 sound panels
AVR: Yamaha RXV665, L/C/R driven by Marantz 200W monos STB: DirecTV HR44 PJ: SP-A800B Scr: STR-169120-WAB
glabelle17 is offline  
post #764 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 10:37 AM
.NET Solution Architect
 
SoulOfUniverse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Chigwell, Essex, UK
Posts: 844
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 591 Post(s)
Liked: 484
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you regarding this. I wanted to investigate comprehensively for you



Having now had opportuntity to evaluate 5 units, aside from a defective unit, what I am finding is that the lens and optics are very good.

Hi Nigel,

I did load up @Javs pattern and it looks all is good , none of the areas are out of focus it is spot on



All images https://imgur.com/gallery/evuvq so not flooding the thread

Video: Synology 416Play 24TB / OPPO UDP-203 / Zidoo X9S -> Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 -> SONY VPL-VW760ES -> Elite Screen 135'' 16:9 1.1 Max White;
Audio: DENON X3500H -> Dali Zensor 7.1 Dolby Atmos (7, 1, E12F, Vokal, Dolby Alteco C1)
SoulOfUniverse is offline  
post #765 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
We're Nuts About AV
 
ARROW-AV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,202
Mentioned: 229 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3863 Post(s)
Liked: 6300
Quote:
Originally Posted by glabelle17 View Post
All I know is that your 52db measurement is very high compared to the specs I see on lots of projectors. i.e. this for the 885/760: Audible Noise: 34.0 dB Eco-Mode: 26.0 dB from Projector Central. For the 52db number you quoted, to be useful for comparison, it has to be in the context of how everyone else measures it. Otherwise without seeing the projector in person, it looks very loud.
But that is precisely my point... Where you are going wrong is you are comparing apples with oranges... The specification for the 52 dB measurement differs by a total of 3 different ways as compared with the figures reported in projectors specification / technical performance information.

The 52 dB number I quoted was the correct answer to a very specific question asked of me by @Wookii , namely what is the absolute maximum possible operating noise (not average), measured at a distance of 1 metre (not 3 metres) and C-Weighted (not A-Weighted). @Wookii wanted to know what is the absolute worst case scenario.

This is very obviously NOT what is the operating noise as per is listed within reported in projectors specification / technical performance information and I could not have been more clear in stating what were/are the parameters that this measurement is associated with. So with the utmost respect, if anyone compares apples-with-oranges in this regard by taking this figure and comparing it with another that uses a completely different set of parameters, then that is their problem and mistake, not mine.

Now if you were to ask me to post what is the operating noise as per is listed within reported in projectors specification / technical performance information then I can do that, but this is most certainly not the 52 dB figure that I quoted. Would you like me to do that for you?


Last edited by ARROW-AV; 12-07-2017 at 10:45 AM.
ARROW-AV is online now  
post #766 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 10:45 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,567
Mentioned: 232 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11829 Post(s)
Liked: 9358
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by glabelle17 View Post
I don't know what the correct way to measure it is. I said that. All I know is that your 52db measurement is very high compared to the specs I see on lots of projectors. i.e. this for the 885/760: Audible Noise: 34.0 dB Eco-Mode: 26.0 dB from Projector Central. For the 52db number you quoted, to be useful for comparison, it has to be in the context of how everyone else measures it. Otherwise without seeing the projector in person, it looks very loud.
When you find out how projector manufacturers measure them, let us know and we can do the same. The number was put into context, at least with the 4500, since two owners measured their 4500's the exact same way. Same goes for contrast. Manufacturers often times list a ridiculous dynamic contrast, like infinity:1 for laser based units. That tells us nothing, other than, the laser can shut off.
Mike Garrett is online now  
post #767 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 10:51 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,567
Mentioned: 232 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11829 Post(s)
Liked: 9358
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakeApples View Post
So you don’t think it’s interesting to compare noise level at their max capacity? I would guess that most owners of these fine projectors will run them at if not maximal capacity, at least close to max capacity so the way Peak compared them is the only interesting comparison for me at least.
I would never buy a projector that I had to run at max all the time. To me, that means I need a brighter projector, smaller screen, higher gain screen or some combination of those. Now granted laser could change that though, but even with laser, I like the idea of very slow dimming, since I am not using the laser at high.
Mike Garrett is online now  
post #768 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 10:59 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,567
Mentioned: 232 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11829 Post(s)
Liked: 9358
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulOfUniverse View Post
Nevertheless it doesn't stop you comparing noise of Z1 to 5000ES ) even though lumens difference is significant.
I didn't. Read the post again. I said 885 and 5000. I also was not comparing. I was saying it would be ridiculous to compare. You guys act like I own stock in JVC. My next projector could be a Sony or some other brand. It comes down to what I think is best for my system, within my budget. I think I could have been happy with the 885, though I would like to see more lumens, but guess what, I said the same thing about the 4500. Would have liked to have more lumens, more contrast and especially more lumens with DCI P3 filter in place. The 4500 has it's faults, just like every other projector. I also recommend Sony to many of my customers, now that I feel pretty confident in their panels.
Mike Garrett is online now  
post #769 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 11:05 AM
.NET Solution Architect
 
SoulOfUniverse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Chigwell, Essex, UK
Posts: 844
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 591 Post(s)
Liked: 484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I didn't. Read the post again. I said 885 and 5000. I also was not comparing. I was saying it would be ridiculous to compare. You guys act like I own stock in JVC. My next projector could be a Sony or some other brand. It comes down to what I think is best for my system, within my budget. I think I could have been happy with the 885, though I would like to see more lumens, but guess what, I said the same thing about the 4500. Would have liked to have more lumens, more contrast and especially more lumens with DCI P3 filter in place. The 4500 has it's faults, just like every other projector. I also recommend Sony to many of my customers, now that I feel pretty confident in their panels.


I related to z1 owners thread discussion and there lots of comparison, so no wonder why it happens with that unit as well

Video: Synology 416Play 24TB / OPPO UDP-203 / Zidoo X9S -> Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 -> SONY VPL-VW760ES -> Elite Screen 135'' 16:9 1.1 Max White;
Audio: DENON X3500H -> Dali Zensor 7.1 Dolby Atmos (7, 1, E12F, Vokal, Dolby Alteco C1)
SoulOfUniverse is offline  
post #770 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 11:19 AM
Advanced Member
 
BakeApples's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 753
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 464 Post(s)
Liked: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I would never buy a projector that I had to run at max all the time. To me, that means I need a brighter projector, smaller screen, higher gain screen or some combination of those. Now granted laser could change that though, but even with laser, I like the idea of very slow dimming, since I am not using the laser at high.
I see what you mean but that`s not the way i see it. If i were in the market for either a Z1, VW5000 or the VW760, i want to know how they compare at their max capacity regardless if i itend to use it at 60% capacity the majority of time. And why do you think i should look for a brighter projector just because i use it with all its ablilities? I don`t understand this logic, if i know my requirements and prerequisites in advance including how bright the picture should be, i will buy something that comes close to meeting those requirements knowing that the projector can give those lumens i want. Why buy something and not take advantage of its full potential?

I guess we have different ways of seeing on this matter and that`s ok.

Sony VPL-VW550 + custom HDR gamma curves | DNP Supernova 08-85 116" 2.35:1 | Pioneer SC-LX89 | AppleTV 4K | Zidoo X20 | PS4 |
BakeApples is offline  
post #771 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 11:19 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 14,405
Mentioned: 393 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5507 Post(s)
Liked: 5324
Why did I have to find this thread? Why am I already thinking about how to adjust my projector shelf for added weight? Why am I going ahead and digging my grave in the backyard when I get home tonight?
phara, Mike Garrett and Bandyka like this.

European Models do not accept banana plugs
Belly of the Beast: Bass Bunker Theater
beastaudio is online now  
post #772 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 11:21 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Steve Bruzonsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Posts: 19,756
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1421 Post(s)
Liked: 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Why did I have to find this thread? Why am I already thinking about how to adjust my projector shelf for added weight? Why am I going ahead and digging my grave in the backyard when I get home tonight?
I recently robbed my savings so I enjoy a VW5000 before I go to my grave! (65 in March)!

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!
Steve Bruzonsky is online now  
post #773 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 11:23 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
roxiedog13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North 48 °
Posts: 3,893
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2754 Post(s)
Liked: 1429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I would never buy a projector that I had to run at max all the time. To me, that means I need a brighter projector, smaller screen, higher gain screen or some combination of those. Now granted laser could change that though, but even with laser, I like the idea of very slow dimming, since I am not using the laser at high.
First of all the VW885 will not have to be on high ALL the time. On my 133 " diagonal scope screen , I'll use high for HDR and 3D everything else will be lower . My VW675 and the RS600 did it just fine and the VW885 is even
brighter . Unless I'm mistaken my screen represents something very normal to larger than average . Who's running more that 140" ?

Based on this I considered the worst case scenario of running high ( what the manufacturer bases 20K specs on) . Even if I run on high with the VW885 watching 2 hours a day every day, that represents 725 hours a year . 20,000 hours to 50% means
27 years to 50% . I've never cracked 500 hours a year personally, I expect 10 years before I loose anything even significant. Not sure how many keep projectors beyond 5 years let alone 10years, will be a good question what the level is
by then. I've already read report from Epson laser owners reporting negligible measurable loss at 1000 hour mark .

Dedicated Theater: Sony VPL VW 885ES , Panamorph DCR & ISCO III L Anamorphic Lens, Draper TecVision XT1800X Screen, 2.40:1 134" diagonal curved , Denon AVR-X8500 , 9.2.6 Atmos, Panasonic UB900, Oppo 203, Lumagen Pro 4440 , (3) Paradigm CI Elite E7-L+C+R fronts, , (2) CI Pro P80-IW Rear, (2) Paradigm SA-ADP In-wall Surround, (6) SIG-1.5R-30 v.3 In-Ceiling, Subwoofers: (2) SVS SB-16 Ultra , SVS PC13-Ultra .
roxiedog13 is offline  
post #774 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 11:24 AM
Member
 
glabelle17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Now if you were to ask me to post what is the operating noise as per is listed within reported in projectors specification / technical performance information then I can do that, but this is most certainly not the 52 dB figure that I quoted. Would you like me to do that for you?

Ok, my mistake. The 52db got separated from the measurement technique somehow, raising eyebrows. When I saw it I was ready to reject this PJ.

Yes, please, measure it however it is measured by other reviewers so it can be compared to other PJs.

Thanks, George P.S. I appreciate your hard work!
ARROW-AV likes this.

Spkrs: C B&W 801, L&R 802S3, DM602 surrounds & rears, 2-Velodyne ULD-15 subs; BDP: Oppo 103d PJ: SP-A800B Room: 23 x 16 x 8.6 acoustic sheet rock, flat black, Tube Traps (2), 12 sound panels
AVR: Yamaha RXV665, L/C/R driven by Marantz 200W monos STB: DirecTV HR44 PJ: SP-A800B Scr: STR-169120-WAB
glabelle17 is offline  
post #775 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 11:26 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,567
Mentioned: 232 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11829 Post(s)
Liked: 9358
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
I actually don't think anyone is confusing any apples to oranges . @Peak was just making a comment about the relative difference in terms of the RS4500 advantage . You want more light it makes more noise , if you can deal with that
it has a brightness advantage. 100lb of projector needs mounting considerations . On high it makes a lot of heat and noise at that setting , all has to be considered. The VW760 mounts like other Sony Projectors on the existing mount.
These were important considerations when I made a decision and potential buyers need to know this . When mine shows up it will be mounted within 15 minutes I grantee that . When I considered the
RS4500 the ceiling mount alone was going to require chopping up the sheetroc installing a new support network . Those are some of the realities of comparing these two when mounting in a ceiling overhead .

I don't know of anyone running the RS4500 on high all the time anyway , everyone that I am speaking to is running mid laser and most are also running a screen of 140" or less, majority are less . Essentially the VW760 can do
this too , so for a consumer looking for what the advantage is, this information is good to know . The RS4500 running on high can output more lumens for improved HDR or larger screen, that is where the VW760 looses ground .
Mounting considerations? If you installed wood blocking that could handle 50 pounds, but not handle 100 pounds, then what you installed was not really adequate for the 50 pound load. Load designs for construction are based on a higher safety factor than 2. If you are mounting even onto a single joist or truss, then a 100 pound point load is not going to make much of a difference. If it does, you better move out of the house, because if it can't handle a 100 pound point load, then you are in danger, walking in the house or attic. As for how you are going to get the projector up onto the mount, with the 4500 it is definitely a two man job, but then I would use two people for the Sony as well, but it would be lighter and easier to handle. My family and I sit under my projector, if my support system could not handle five to ten times the point load, I would not allow anybody to sit under it. I will admit, being an engineer, I often over build, when building my stuff. My mount is fastened to five different trusses (two 9' pieces of unistrut 16" apart) with two lag bolts per joist. The weak link in my mounting system is the Chief CMS390, which has a rated weight capacity of 500 pounds. Note that is the rated capacity, not the point of failure capacity.
Mike Garrett is online now  
post #776 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 11:28 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
roxiedog13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North 48 °
Posts: 3,893
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2754 Post(s)
Liked: 1429
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
I recently robbed my savings so I enjoy a VW5000 before I go to my grave! (65 in March)!
Hold on Steve, aren't you doing a double stack , don't be talking about graves yet. Save a bit of money though, you might want to take a pico projector in the coffin with you . Don't have to be overly bright, pretty dark down there
and apparently not a lot of light where I'm going.
Dragnet likes this.

Dedicated Theater: Sony VPL VW 885ES , Panamorph DCR & ISCO III L Anamorphic Lens, Draper TecVision XT1800X Screen, 2.40:1 134" diagonal curved , Denon AVR-X8500 , 9.2.6 Atmos, Panasonic UB900, Oppo 203, Lumagen Pro 4440 , (3) Paradigm CI Elite E7-L+C+R fronts, , (2) CI Pro P80-IW Rear, (2) Paradigm SA-ADP In-wall Surround, (6) SIG-1.5R-30 v.3 In-Ceiling, Subwoofers: (2) SVS SB-16 Ultra , SVS PC13-Ultra .
roxiedog13 is offline  
post #777 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 11:31 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
roxiedog13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North 48 °
Posts: 3,893
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2754 Post(s)
Liked: 1429
Quote:
Originally Posted by glabelle17 View Post
Ok, my mistake. The 52db got separated from the measurement technique somehow, raising eyebrows. When I saw it I was ready to reject this PJ.

Yes, please, measure it however it is measured by other reviewers so it can be compared to other PJs.

Thanks, George P.S. I appreciate your hard work!
Go to 16:20 , he compares the Z1 to the VW760 that he refers to as it's primary competition . He discusses noise levels .


Dedicated Theater: Sony VPL VW 885ES , Panamorph DCR & ISCO III L Anamorphic Lens, Draper TecVision XT1800X Screen, 2.40:1 134" diagonal curved , Denon AVR-X8500 , 9.2.6 Atmos, Panasonic UB900, Oppo 203, Lumagen Pro 4440 , (3) Paradigm CI Elite E7-L+C+R fronts, , (2) CI Pro P80-IW Rear, (2) Paradigm SA-ADP In-wall Surround, (6) SIG-1.5R-30 v.3 In-Ceiling, Subwoofers: (2) SVS SB-16 Ultra , SVS PC13-Ultra .
roxiedog13 is offline  
post #778 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 11:33 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,567
Mentioned: 232 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11829 Post(s)
Liked: 9358
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakeApples View Post
I see what you mean but that`s not the way i see it. If i were in the market for either a Z1, VW5000 or the VW760, i want to know how they compare at their max capacity regardless if i itend to use it at 60% capacity the majority of time. And why do you think i should look for a brighter projector just because i use it with all its ablilities? I don`t understand this logic, if i know my requirements and prerequisites in advance including how bright the picture should be, i will buy something that comes close to meeting those requirements knowing that the projector can give those lumens i want. Why buy something and not take advantage of its full potential?

I guess we have different ways of seeing on this matter and that`s ok.
I did not say you. I said me and I also prefaced that by adding, my thoughts on this might change, with laser projectors. With lamp based it was a huge deal if starting at max light output, but with laser it is less of a problem.
Mike Garrett is online now  
post #779 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 11:49 AM
Member
 
*Mori*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 193
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 211 Post(s)
Liked: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by glabelle17 View Post
I don't know what the correct way to measure it is. I said that. All I know is that your 52db measurement is very high compared to the specs I see on lots of projectors. i.e. this for the 885/760: Audible Noise: 34.0 dB Eco-Mode: 26.0 dB from Projector Central. For the 52db number you quoted, to be useful for comparison, it has to be in the context of how everyone else measures it. Otherwise without seeing the projector in person, it looks very loud.
Totally agree. Excellent post.


In this review a German dealer demonstrates the noise level and explaines: "flüsterleise" (engl. whisper-quiet), "die Lautstärke ist super und ist mit 24 db angegeben" (engl. the noice level is super and is specified with 24 db) @5:50

So this guy simply checks and controls the noise level qualitatively by using his experience instead of measuring it and sets it in the right context.

He claimes to have measured 2150 lumen max. and 90% DCI-P3 coverage btw.
roxiedog13 likes this.
*Mori* is offline  
post #780 of 1972 Old 12-07-2017, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
We're Nuts About AV
 
ARROW-AV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,202
Mentioned: 229 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3863 Post(s)
Liked: 6300
ARROW-AV is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+)

Tags
laser , projector , Sony , vw760es , vw885es

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off