SONY VW885ES / VW760ES : In Depth Review & Comparisons - Page 59 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1741 of 1972 Old 02-05-2018, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBCAT View Post
As long as the blacks don't look purple like the early RP TV's, I'm happy.

Blacks is all about your perception, the brightness of the picture stops down your eyes iris and helps the blacks look black.

Anyone watch the Superbowl?
Sure looked great on the 885es, no analyzing or looking for problems in the picture, just sitting back and enjoying a great game and that beautiful picture the 885es throws.
I had a conversation with the engineers at DLP this last CEDIA. They were making the argument that ANSI matters the most because it is a mixed image. But ANSI contrast is a measurement with a average display level of 50%. If you looked at images with that display average there is VERY little black in the image, and it is intermixed with bright areas around it so it looks REALLY black. That is why most displays look great with that type of content, your eye is biased AND comparing to a bright object right next to black.

But the contrast we are talking about here is near black or dark scenes with VERY little highlight information. This is where DLPs and LCDs look milky gray, because there is nothing to bias your eye and there is nothing to compare to that gives you the optical illusion of inky blacks. If the dynamic dimming was working better, these are the areas that would be improved. A star field can be a great example but there are plenty more. Some are more sensitive to it than others, ultimately it comes down to perspective and what your are used to looking at. You can go look in the other forums at guys that have never had anything but DLP projectors with contrast ratios near 1000:1 that think they do fantastic blacks. If you compared them side by side with these projectors, even without a dynamic system, you'd see a huge difference. Then turn on a dynamic system and it is staggering.

I had a guy bring a 665ES (or the model before, can't remember exactly) over to my house to do a side by side controlled comparison to a JVC. The first thing I did was set his up and did a full calibration. Then we looked at content. We used the opening sequence from Pacific Rim, which has a star field sequence. He thought it looked great and much better than he saw at home after I calibrated it. After we watched that for a bit I brought the JVC in the mix. These were brightness matched so all things would be equal. I would simply block the lens on one and the other so you could compare instantly and on the fly. Using the same sequence from Pacific Rim he couldn't believe it, he thought I changed the settings or turned something off. I assured him I had not, and went over all the settings to show him. His blacks looked great to him before because he had no reference and now he is comparing directly to something that had far more contrast. Now it just looked washed out and flat. Our eyes are fantastic optical comparators, so these tests are great at showing differences, BUT, we typically don't watch content comparing one thing directly to the other, so without that reference we are pretty good at adapting unless there is a pretty noticeable deficiency. Sony's contrast is pretty good overall, it could just be better with the dimming working well. Some people will be more sensitive to it than others, it all comes down to what you are used to viewing.

Hope this helps

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post #1742 of 1972 Old 02-05-2018, 04:06 PM
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If you want your blacks to look better, surf the internet on your laptop, while watching your projector. Room has to be dark. The bright image of the laptop will bias the eyes and the black on the projector screen will look a lot better.
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post #1743 of 1972 Old 02-05-2018, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
I had a conversation with the engineers at DLP this last CEDIA. They were making the argument that ANSI matters the most because it is a mixed image.
Unfortunately, some of these companies are so predictable. When TI had the best on/off CR they understood why on/off CR matters so much for video content, but now that they have fallen behind even their technical people seem to have magically forgotten why they said on/off CR mattered in the first place. This is one reason I think people should be careful about believing claims from companies, even if they are in white papers, unless independent people who have shown they can be trusted verify their claims.

I started a thread where part of the first post is about some of this deception from TI about contrast ratio. That thread is here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post55466456

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post #1744 of 1972 Old 02-05-2018, 11:37 PM
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Have any one compared VW675ES and VW885ES (production unit) side-by-side for contrast and black performance? Is the perceived grayness at least in part because of more lumens via laser?

I read some claims that VW675ES has better contrast even though contrast measurements seems to show a small advantage to VW885ES.

I am interested in actual performance, space scenes with a lot of black and bright items on screen, jungle and nature scenes with water, trees, water etc., city at night etc.

If one would go from VW675ES to VW885ES, would he get less picture quality (contrast)? This has not been possible with Sony before, that older cheaper models out-perform the newer models in a higher price range - which have always been a improvement upon previous models. VW675ES is already 1.5 years old model.
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post #1745 of 1972 Old 02-06-2018, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
HOW TO FIX THE 1:1 PIXEL INTEGRITY AND UNIFORMITY ISSUE:

With the projector's factory default settings, which is how it is delivered to you, the presets are set to provide what SONY has chosen to provide out-of-the-box. Whilst this clearly provides an absolutely superb image, with these particular settings there exists a slight uniformity issue, which is caused by the 1:1 pixel integrity of the projector having been compromised with these particular settings; the result of which is that the projector is not able to fully resolve at the single pixel level.

With these settings this can induce some undesirable video artifacts including moire, chroma shifting, splodges, and a general uniformity issue, which are intermittently slightly visible in both test patterns and video content.

There is no fault with the projector itself.

This is simply being caused by the particular choice of settings that have been selected by SONY for the out-of-the-box settings.

The good news is that if you find this to be an issue it is easily fixed via simply changing of some of the settings.

If you or your AV dealer wish to see what's what in this regard then I recommend checking out the Single Pixel Resolution Test Patterns found within MISC TEST PATTERNS MENU #2 on the excellent DVS HDR10 Test Patterns Blu-Ray Disc / Digital Download: http://diversifiedvideosolutions.com/dvs_products.html



THIS is an example of the issue, which is the MIXED PIXEL TEST PATTERN off the DVS HDR10 Test Patterns Disc as displayed via the SONY 760/885ES projector with its factory out-of-the-box settings:



Well have your AV dealer carry out the following steps and that image will transform into looking something like THIS:



The fix involves entering the Service Menu for the projector.

I can't tell you how to enter the Service Menu because this is something that only AV dealers should be doing

It is very important to note that any owner/customer who enters the Service Menu themselves risks invalidating their warranty so you absolutely must not do so.

However, I can and will now provide the details with respect to the steps that need to be taken such that you can provide this to your AV dealer and have them carry out the modifications and hence the fix for you.

Here we go:

This is what your AV Dealer needs to do with respect to your projector for you:

1. In the projector's settings menu ensure that PANEL ALIGNMENT is set to 'PRESET' and not 'ADJUST' (this is the factory default setting so it should be already set to this, but make sure that it is)

2. Enter the Projector's SERVICE MENU

3. Select 'DISPLAY ENGINE' and press ENTER

4. Move down to Number 21 "AREG/SERVICE". Then press the LEFT ARROW key on the remote to change the setting from '1' to '0'. This turns off the automatic zone pixel alignment.

5. Move up to Number 15 "DE/WB SW". Then press the LEFT ARROW key on the remote to change the setting from '1' to '0'. This switches to a different default white balance setting.

6. Move up to Number 2 "DE/UF SW". Then press the LEFT ARROW key on the remote to change the setting from '1' to '0'. This switches to a different uniformity preset.

7. Move up to 6, 7, 8, and 9 and adjust these as necessary for optimal RGB pixel convergence.

8. Go back to the first SERVICE MENU menu and select "SAVE TO MEMORY"

9. Calibrate/Recalibrate the projector to D65 white point.

Done!

About this very interesting post, i'd like to know something else.
- after turned off the automatic zone pixel alignment as described we have to do the full alignment panel/pixel as indicated point 7?
- the point 5 and 6 are necessary or strictly correlated to the pixel alignment or for that does not need?
- after done the alignment pixel (through 6,7,8,9 menu) and saved in the service menu, in the regular menu of the Projector is it yet possibile to do zone convergence of the panel (or it's not more necessary)
- is there an improvement of focus and sharpness too in the video image or it solve the colour and artifacts issues reported in pixel test image?

Many thanks in advace
Luca
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post #1746 of 1972 Old 02-06-2018, 04:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lucama View Post
About this very interesting post, i'd like to know something else.
- after turned off the automatic zone pixel alignment as described we have to do the full alignment panel/pixel as indicated point 7?
- the point 5 and 6 are necessary or strictly correlated to the pixel alignment or for that does not need?
- after done the alignment pixel (through 6,7,8,9 menu) and saved in the service menu, in the regular menu of the Projector is it yet possibile to do zone convergence of the panel (or it's not more necessary)
- is there an improvement of focus and sharpness too in the video image or it solve the colour and artifacts issues reported in pixel test image?

Many thanks in advace
Luca
Subsequent to that post I updated the details, so I just amended that post accordingly as per follows:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
HOW TO FIX THE 1:1 PIXEL INTEGRITY AND UNIFORMITY ISSUE:

With the projector's factory default settings, which is how it is delivered to you, the presets are set to provide what SONY has chosen to provide out-of-the-box. Whilst this clearly provides a great looking image, there exists the potential for uniformity issues.

This is in part (but not completely) caused by the 1:1 pixel mapping integrity of the projector being compromised with these particular settings; the result of which is that the projector is not able to fully resolve at the single pixel level.

There also exists potential uniformity issues in addition to this; and it should be noted that this phenomenon is seemingly worse with the SONY 885/760ES as compared with some of the other models of SONY projectors. With respect to the other models of SONY projectors SONY claims that the issue does not affect actual video content, only test patterns; however, with respect to the SONY 885/760ES it most certainly does affect actual video content, and see below for an example of this.

With these settings this can induce some undesirable video artifacts including moire, chroma shifting, splodges, and a general uniformity issue, which are intermittently slightly visible in both test patterns and video content.

There is no fault with the projector itself. This is simply being caused by the particular choice of settings that have been selected by SONY for the out-of-the-box settings. The good news is that if you find this to be an issue it is easily fixed via simply changing of some of the settings.

If you or your AV dealer wish to see what's what in this regard then I recommend checking out the Single Pixel Resolution Test Patterns found within MISC TEST PATTERNS MENU #2 on the excellent DVS HDR10 Test Patterns Blu-Ray Disc / Digital Download: http://diversifiedvideosolutions.com/dvs_products.html



THIS is an example of the issue, which is the MIXED PIXEL TEST PATTERN off the DVS HDR10 Test Patterns Disc as displayed via the SONY 760/885ES projector with its factory out-of-the-box settings:



Well have your AV dealer carry out the following steps and that image will transform into looking something like THIS:



The fix involves entering the Service Menu for the projector.

I can't tell you how to enter the Service Menu because this is something that only AV dealers should be doing

It is very important to note that any owner/customer who enters the Service Menu themselves risks invalidating their warranty so you absolutely must not do so.

However, I can and will now provide the details with respect to the steps that need to be taken such that you can provide this to your AV dealer and have them carry out the modifications and hence the fix for you.

Here we go:

This is what your AV Dealer needs to do with respect to your projector for you:

1. In the projector's settings menu ensure that PANEL ALIGNMENT is set to 'PRESET' and not 'ADJUST' (this is the factory default setting so it should be already set to this, but make sure that it is)

2. Enter the Projector's SERVICE MENU

3. Select 'DISPLAY ENGINE' and press ENTER

4. Move down to Number 21 "AREG/SERVICE". Then press the LEFT ARROW key on the remote to change the setting from '1' to '0'. This turns off the automatic zone pixel alignment.

5. Display a single pixel test pattern (such as those found on the DVS HDR10 Test Pattern Blu-Ray / Download). If you see uniformity issues and/or video artifacts including chroma-shifted moire, , then go to service menu Number 2 "DE/UF SW". Then press the LEFT ARROW key on the remote to change the setting from '1' to '0'. This switches to a different uniformity preset. If you don’t then skip to #7 .

6. Display a single pixel test pattern again. If you still see uniformity issues and/or video artifacts including chroma-shifted moire, then go to service menu Number 15 "DE/WB SW". Then press the LEFT ARROW key on the remote to change the setting from '1' to '0'. This switches to a different default white balance setting. If you don’t then skip to #7 .

7. Move up to 6, 7, 8, and 9 and adjust these if necessary for optimal RGB pixel convergence.

8. Go back to the first SERVICE MENU menu and select "SAVE TO MEMORY"

9. Recalibrate the projector to D65 white point.

Done!



Here's just one of numerous examples of the uniformity issues manifesting in actual video content:

I feel the need to stress that the potential uniformity issues are not the same as the other SONY projector models where it's been reported to be solely due to the automatic zone RGB pixel alignment in the service menu. Hence simply adjusting item 21 in the Service Menu in most instances won't fix the problems entirely, in which case there's the need for the additional steps.

Further to this, answers to your question as per follows:

- after turned off the automatic zone pixel alignment as described we have to do the full alignment panel/pixel as indicated point 7?
IF necessary; where, in many instances no adjustment is actually necessary; but if the convergence is not perfect then you can fix it by manually adjusting the RGB convergence via 6,7,8 and 9 in the Service Menu.

- the point 5 and 6 are necessary or strictly correlated to the pixel alignment or for that does not need?
You should only carry out the Number 15 "DE/WB SW" and/or Number 2 "DE/UF SW" adjustments if you need to; in other words, if Number 21 "AREG/SERVICE" does not fix the uniformity issues on your particular unit.

- after done the alignment pixel (through 6,7,8,9 menu) and saved in the service menu, in the regular menu of the Projector is it yet possibile to do zone convergence of the panel (or it's not more necessary)
You can't carry out zone convergence with this projector without causing issues; however, it should not be necessary. You should be able to achieve excellent convergence via manually adjusting the RGB convergence via 6,7,8 and 9 in the Service Menu, IF you need to do so, wherein in most instances you won't.

- is there an improvement of focus and sharpness too in the video image or it solve the colour and artifacts issues reported in pixel test image? There is no change with respect to the focus or sharpness, in themselves, or with respect to their uniformity. It should cure in the vast majority of instances all undesirable video artifacts including moire, chroma shifting, and splodges; which are clearly visible in test patterns and also affecting video content.

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Last edited by ARROW-AV; 02-06-2018 at 04:27 AM.
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post #1747 of 1972 Old 02-06-2018, 05:53 AM
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Thank you so much! I have the 260 (european version of 285) and i'll take a look!
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post #1748 of 1972 Old 02-06-2018, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsal View Post
Have any one compared VW675ES and VW885ES (production unit) side-by-side for contrast and black performance? Is the perceived grayness at least in part because of more lumens via laser?

I read some claims that VW675ES has better contrast even though contrast measurements seems to show a small advantage to VW885ES.

I am interested in actual performance, space scenes with a lot of black and bright items on screen, jungle and nature scenes with water, trees, water etc., city at night etc.

If one would go from VW675ES to VW885ES, would he get less picture quality (contrast)? This has not been possible with Sony before, that older cheaper models out-perform the newer models in a higher price range - which have always been a improvement upon previous models. VW675ES is already 1.5 years old model.
I considered Arrow's post to this question in post #1706 to be the accepted answer:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
The SONY 675/550ES has both usage of the iris in addition to significantly better dynamic contrast functionality and hence will produce superior contrast and better black level performance with low APL scenes as compared with the SONY 885/760ES


Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #1749 of 1972 Old 02-06-2018, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
I considered Arrow's post to this question in post #1706 to be the accepted answer:
Is that opinion from a side-by-side comparison with the two 675 and 885 or just an option (maybe an educated guess)? Is this backed up with data for example actual measurements of contrast between these projectors? Basically you are saying that 675ES would have better contrast and black performance than 885ES, which would be very bad for Sony. That claim should have actual comparison results and data with production unit of 885 and 675 to back that up. Is there any chance that some of the grayness could be attributed to higher lumens of the laser?

Last edited by tsal; 02-06-2018 at 07:11 AM.
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post #1750 of 1972 Old 02-06-2018, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lucama View Post
Thank you so much! I have the 260 (european version of 285) and i'll take a look!Luca
That fix is applicable specifically to the SONY 885/760ES

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsal View Post
Is that opinion from a side-by-side comparison with the two 675 and 885 or just an option (maybe an educated guess)? Is this backed up with data for example actual measurements of contrast between these projectors?
It's based on actual measurements

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsal View Post
Basically you are saying that 675ES would have better contrast and black performance than 885ES...
Including dynamic contrast functionality, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsal View Post
...which would be very bad for Sony.
Not at all. No more so than the fact that the JVC RS/X-Series range of projectors have better contrast and black performance than the JVC RS4500/Z1

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post #1751 of 1972 Old 02-06-2018, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
No more so than the fact that the JVC RS/X-Series range of projectors have better contrast and black performance than the JVC RS4500/Z1
Thank you for clarifying. Do you think that the higher lumens of the these higher end projectors is a factor in lower black performance, perceived "grayness" of black?
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post #1752 of 1972 Old 02-06-2018, 09:19 AM
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Thank you for clarifying. Do you think that the higher lumens of the these higher end projectors is a factor in lower black performance, perceived "grayness" of black?
That can always be a factor, but most side by side comparisons are done brightness matched. I think a lot of the early buzz on the 885 having higher "contrast" subjectively has more to do with people mistaking brightness for contrast. When you get a new projector it always has that new projector punch to the image because in almost every case, it is brighter than what you were using. But that has little to do with dynamic range (contrast). It is like people that hear a loud movie and go "WOW! That movie has some serious dynamic range!!". But dynamic range does not mean a movie is loud, saying a movie has great dynamic range means that it has clear examples of swings from loud to soft, which most people don't listen for.


I also don't think that most people understand that high on/off contrast helps so much with low level imagery and just think we are talking about full black. Look at the progression of display technologies that get the hype. OLED, Dolby Cinema, Plasma, new LED LCDs, they are all the buzz because they've made break thrus in on/off contrast.

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post #1753 of 1972 Old 02-06-2018, 12:40 PM
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His blacks looked great to him before because he had no reference and now he is comparing directly to something that had far more contrast.
That is a perfect example of why, if you are perfectly happy with the image your projector throws already, one shouldn't go and directly compare it to another one unless you are already looking for an upgrade.

Same old thing though, no projector is perfect and they all do something better than the competition, however as a user/buyer you need to decide what is most important to you and judge accordingly.
It is all too easy to get hung up on this aspect or that aspect of picture quality, at the expense of just watching and enjoying what is in front of you 99.9% of the time.

All modern projectors throw a fantastic image as a general rule, so buy the one that suits you and your sensibilities and enjoy your watching movies or gaming etc.
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post #1754 of 1972 Old 02-06-2018, 10:39 PM
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Is the Sony 885 the only projector that exhausts out of the back? Was told that it was designed this way to get heat away from the lens. However, this was important for my room as I have an exhaust fan behind the projector (located in the back of our theater) which moves the hot air out of the room. This has made a huge improvement in heat getting into the room. Not an issue anymore and was one factor in my purchase. SJ
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post #1755 of 1972 Old 02-06-2018, 11:30 PM
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Yes and that is why the starfield in Interstellar etc look grey. If we were only looking at near full bright screens with a small black area than that would be the case and high on/off contrast wouldn't matter much but luckily there are great sci fi pieces with lots of scenes to enjoy great black performance. Watched The Empire Strikes Back last night again and I really enjoyed the space scenes, could not watch it with constant grey backdrops but that is just me
I noticed that in these scenes, the CGI related movies, like Gravity is superb.. contrast on my Sony is excellent.. black is just black.. and everything look sharp and great... but with scenes shot with a real cameras, low APL scenes, then everything is a grew fog... i think it's more to do with the source material than the projector when it comes to this.. i have watched some movies with very low APL scenes like Night at the Museum, and contrast were always great in every scene, even in murky museum scenes... but in certain movies, it just sucks...
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post #1756 of 1972 Old 02-07-2018, 02:22 AM
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Is the Sony 885 the only projector that exhausts out of the back? Was told that it was designed this way to get heat away from the lens. However, this was important for my room as I have an exhaust fan behind the projector (located in the back of our theater) which moves the hot air out of the room. This has made a huge improvement in heat getting into the room. Not an issue anymore and was one factor in my purchase. SJ
Hi.
Of all their 'compact' models, I do believe it is the only one that exhausts out of the rear yes.
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post #1757 of 1972 Old 02-07-2018, 02:24 AM
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I noticed that in these scenes, the CGI related movies, like Gravity is superb.. contrast on my Sony is excellent.. black is just black.. and everything look sharp and great... but with scenes shot with a real cameras, low APL scenes, then everything is a grew fog... i think it's more to do with the source material than the projector when it comes to this.. i have watched some movies with very low APL scenes like Night at the Museum, and contrast were always great in every scene, even in murky museum scenes... but in certain movies, it just sucks...
The better and more accurate a display is, the more it will show up weak source material.

Just the same as audio.
Stick top end speakers on a weak amp/source and they will show up every minute deficiency in the sound.
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post #1758 of 1972 Old 02-07-2018, 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
I noticed that in these scenes, the CGI related movies, like Gravity is superb.. contrast on my Sony is excellent.. black is just black.. and everything look sharp and great... but with scenes shot with a real cameras, low APL scenes, then everything is a grew fog... i think it's more to do with the source material than the projector when it comes to this.. i have watched some movies with very low APL scenes like Night at the Museum, and contrast were always great in every scene, even in murky museum scenes... but in certain movies, it just sucks...
Unless some scenes have elevated black floor they should be just as black if the PJ is capable enough. I don't really see a difference between CGI and real cameras on my PJ on low APL scenes, watched the old SW movies and black was properly black.

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post #1759 of 1972 Old 02-07-2018, 04:30 AM
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The better and more accurate a display is, the more it will show up weak source material.

Just the same as audio.
Stick top end speakers on a weak amp/source and they will show up every minute deficiency in the sound.
I agree. However, that doesn't make it an excuse to produce weak source materials in the first place... I have seen many comparison of movies with very similar low APL scenes, and one would show up excellent, and another totally unwatchable... irregardless of what projector you have.. (that's because even the best of projectors won't even come close to an OLED display)...

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Unless some scenes have elevated black floor they should be just as black if the PJ is capable enough. I don't really see a difference between CGI and real cameras on my PJ on low APL scenes, watched the old SW movies and black was properly black.
Elevated black floor.. that's probably it.. i don't know what's what.. but some movies are just terrible transfers... they look terrible in any displays...
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post #1760 of 1972 Old 02-07-2018, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
I agree. However, that doesn't make it an excuse to produce weak source materials in the first place... I have seen many comparison of movies with very similar low APL scenes, and one would show up excellent, and another totally unwatchable... irregardless of what projector you have.. (that's because even the best of projectors won't even come close to an OLED display)...



Elevated black floor.. that's probably it.. i don't know what's what.. but some movies are just terrible transfers... they look terrible in any displays...
That means some movies don't actually use IRE0 for black they use higher resulting in grey ish looking blacks. Interstellar UHD conversion is one and Blue Planet 2 is another.

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post #1761 of 1972 Old 02-07-2018, 05:21 AM
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that doesn't make it an excuse to produce weak source materials in the first place...
Absolutely! Of course it doesn't.

Cynically speaking, an initial weak transfer could be done purely so they can release a 'newly re-mastered' version down the line to sell the same movie again....
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post #1762 of 1972 Old 02-07-2018, 05:58 AM
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Absolutely! Of course it doesn't.

Cynically speaking, an initial weak transfer could be done purely so they can release a 'newly re-mastered' version down the line to sell the same movie again....
That makes sense... They rush out the initial release to capture the market.. then later, take their time, creating a better version and make money all over again...

This is standard practice for movies like Star Wars... but i think nowadays, it's not as profitable selling hard copies anymore... everything has gone into streaming...
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post #1763 of 1972 Old 02-07-2018, 06:01 AM
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That means some movies don't actually use IRE0 for black they use higher resulting in grey ish looking blacks. Interstellar UHD conversion is one and Blue Planet 2 is another.
Makes sense.. that's why some movies are so good in dark scenes, while others are so bad...

I always hear people say, 'you are meant to watch it the way the director intends'... i call BS on that.. a lot of movies are terrible (visually), and enhancements are needed...

People don't realize that even artists have good and bad... just like doctors, or lawyers...
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post #1764 of 1972 Old 02-07-2018, 01:17 PM
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That makes sense... They rush out the initial release to capture the market.. then later, take their time, creating a better version and make money all over again...

This is standard practice for movies like Star Wars... but i think nowadays, it's not as profitable selling hard copies anymore... everything has gone into streaming...
I think the UHD blu-ray market is just starting to hit its stride personally.
With the bitrates of streamed video still being well below any decent Blu-ray, I think discs will be here for a while for those that simply want the best quality source material.

Nothing I have seen streamed thus far in 4K (and I have a decent internet connection) comes close to the guaranteed smooth and constant bitrates and video frame rates of discs.
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post #1765 of 1972 Old 02-07-2018, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
I think the UHD blu-ray market is just starting to hit its stride personally.
With the bitrates of streamed video still being well below any decent Blu-ray, I think discs will be here for a while for those that simply want the best quality source material.

Nothing I have seen streamed thus far in 4K (and I have a decent internet connection) comes close to the guaranteed smooth and constant bitrates and video frame rates of discs.
4K Blu-ray sales have exceeded industry expectations. I'm up to 80 myself, and 2018 looks to be a big year for new 4K movies and re-masters of catalog titles. I buy all mine on Amazon.
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post #1766 of 1972 Old 02-08-2018, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
I think the UHD blu-ray market is just starting to hit its stride personally.
With the bitrates of streamed video still being well below any decent Blu-ray, I think discs will be here for a while for those that simply want the best quality source material.

Nothing I have seen streamed thus far in 4K (and I have a decent internet connection) comes close to the guaranteed smooth and constant bitrates and video frame rates of discs.
That's precisely the problem. ONLY people who demand the best quality even bothers to buy them now... the vast majority of consumers are switching to just streaming and quality matters not to them... people like my brother won't even care if something is 720p vs 4K.. and they are the vast majority.. the days where studios makes tons of money from physical disc is over... and that's why i think the production levels are getting poorer.. they no longer want to invest the time and effort into it... they used to create specials for the blu-rays... and sells tens of millions of copies... , now they are lucky to sell a few million for the most popular titles...

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4K Blu-ray sales have exceeded industry expectations. I'm up to 80 myself, and 2018 looks to be a big year for new 4K movies and re-masters of catalog titles. I buy all mine on Amazon.
Exceed expectations is very misleading.. you mean only 8 million copies sold in the entire 2017... and that includes all the titles... and makes up 4% of all blu ray sales...
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post #1767 of 1972 Old 02-08-2018, 02:00 AM
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4K Blu-ray sales have exceeded industry expectations. I'm up to 80 myself, and 2018 looks to be a big year for new 4K movies and re-masters of catalog titles. I buy all mine on Amazon.
Agreed. I'm right on your heels with 74 and I get all of mine from Amazon as well. The title count is growing like crazy and the cost of many is dropping. And now that I can rip them to my NAS to playback on my HCPC, the 4K experience is even more convenient because there's no more disc-swapping required to access the pristine content only 4K UHD/HDR can deliver. And the 4K MKV looks identical to the source. Now all of my content is digitized from 720p to 3D and 4K.

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post #1768 of 1972 Old 02-08-2018, 02:03 AM
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Agreed. I'm right on your heels with 74 and I get all of mine from Amazon as well. The title count is growing like crazy and the cost of many is dropping. And now that I can rip them to my NAS to playback on my HCPC, the 4K experience is even more convenient because there's no more disc-swapping required to access the pristine content only 4K UHD/HDR can deliver. And the 4K MKV looks identical to the source. Now all of my content is digitized from 720p to 3D and 4K.
May I ask how you digitize 720p content and turn them into 3D and 4K? you have a special upscaler whne you rip them?
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post #1769 of 1972 Old 02-08-2018, 02:13 AM
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May I ask how you digitize 720p content and turn them into 3D and 4K? you have a special upscaler whne you rip them?
You misunderstood what I was saying. After reading my post I see how. I was stating that my all of my DVDs and Blu-rays have been digitized. 720p, 1080p, 3D MVC and 4K UHD/HDR are digitally stored and accessed from my NAS. My JRMC with LAV and MadVR does upscale the lower resolutions however.

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post #1770 of 1972 Old 02-08-2018, 05:18 AM
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Exceed expectations is very misleading.. you mean only 8 million copies sold in the entire 2017... and that includes all the titles... and makes up 4% of all blu ray sales...
I don't think so, not according to the reports I saw?

2016:
https://www.twice.com/product/bda-de...ans-2017-63944
According to figures provided by the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA), 2016 ended with 110 titles available and nearly 20 million software units sold in the U.S.

2017:
https://www.twice.com/product/bda-de...ans-2017-63944
They also pointed to an eight-fold increase of 2017 unit sales of UHD Blu-ray software, accompanied by the number of available titles more than doubling to over 250.

Don't know if that means 160 Million units for 2017, or if it's eight-fold over all sales since inception, which would mean a lower number. However, this is way over expectation and the first year was 2 times faster than first year of blu-ray!

However, the share of total disc sales is still in the vicinity indicated. I think the last weeks it's been around 6,5% of total, with a potential uptick towards 10% some weeks.


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