Official Sony VW885ES / VW760ES Owner's Thread - Page 113 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3361 of 4729 Old 09-14-2018, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Peak View Post
Does the HDR optimizer not work in HDR mode? Do you manually have to change to SDR2020 for it to become available?

Otherwise I wonder why you're not running with HDR on and doing the HDR optimizer on top of the regular signal that's stored on disc?

HDR optimizer can be turned on in HDR2020 or SDR2020. I just personally think the picture looks much better if you use SDR2020 and let the player do all the tone mapping.



IMO the player's tone mapping is better than the 885's built in HDR TM, so I keep it on SDR2020. Personal preference. You can try it both ways and see which you TM method you prefer. If one was using a custom curve than it might be a different story.



To me, the blacks are better, colors pop more, and highlights are better when I run SDR2020 and let the player do all the TM.



I think of the UB820 as a poor mans Lumagen. Looks great. I only wish it had an HDMI input like the oppo so I could use the TM for my apple 4k tv
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post #3362 of 4729 Old 09-14-2018, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by axlns View Post
Hi guys, I'm using my VE760ES for a few months now, only now I found time to read that thread almost entirely (on the page 95 now); I read many posts about blue streaking; unfortunately my pj also has this defect;
can you please check attached images; I see this defect from my seating position; obviously it is much more intense when I see it in few centimeters from the screen; but it is still noticable from my seating position as well;
do you think such defect worth trying to replace my unit ? defect is visible only under specific conditions (black background and bright white letters, such as opening or closing titles) - but I dont think I'm comfortable keeping so much expensive unit if the same units others owns, have that blue streaking defect in much lesser extent.

what do you guys think?


ps. when taking photos with my iphone I intentionally tried to overexpose them, because without that photos was not representing amount of blue streaking I see; so perhaps now defect is greater on the photos than in reality, but I think it is better represent actual defect I'm seeing.
Hi.

Sony will ask you to do a panel alignment before they even entertain a return. They may even try to tell you that it is behaving as expected (If they expect lots of blur streaks from a top end device, then I guess it is……).
However, if you are seeing this from your seat even after doing a very careful panel alignment (using R/G, not R/G/B), then get onto your dealer/Sony support straight away. It is not acceptable on any device, let alone one this expensive.

Some units have this more than others and other users @Dave Harper for example, returned their units with this much streaking.

Good luck.
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post #3363 of 4729 Old 09-14-2018, 07:43 AM
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@jbrinegar , what Picture Mode are you using? (I'm using Cinema Film 1)...or is that moot once you change all the settings (brightness, contrast, gamma, etc)? I would imagine there could be differences between the Picture Modes beyond what's just exposed in the basic settings.

EDIT: another question...you mentioned earlier to calibrate using the Masciola disc (which is how you arrived at a Contrast of 100). Isn't that disc an HDR disc? If you calibrate in HDR mode, but then run the projector in SDR mode, that's not the same setting, right? (i.e. the sony shows 'Contrast (HDR)' when in HDR mode vs. 'Contrast' when in SDR mode (independent settings).

I found it interesting that Woof Woof said Black Panther looked better...in my experience, the Marvel movies look great when the 885ES is in HDR mode and does the tone mapping. It's other films (The Prestige, Predator, and others) that I want to try the UB820 with and see if letting the player do the tone mapping helps things.


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post #3364 of 4729 Old 09-14-2018, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by fatherom View Post
@jbrinegar , what Picture Mode are you using? (I'm using Cinema Film 1)...or is that moot once you change all the settings (brightness, contrast, gamma, etc)? I would imagine there could be differences between the Picture Modes beyond what's just exposed in the basic settings.

EDIT: another question...you mentioned earlier to calibrate using the Masciola disc (which is how you arrived at a Contrast of 100). Isn't that disc an HDR disc? If you calibrate in HDR mode, but then run the projector in SDR mode, that's not the same setting, right? (i.e. the sony shows 'Contrast (HDR)' when in HDR mode vs. 'Contrast' when in SDR mode (independent settings).

I found it interesting that Woof Woof said Black Panther looked better...in my experience, the Marvel movies look great when the 885ES is in HDR mode and does the tone mapping. It's other films (The Prestige, Predator, and others) that I want to try the UB820 with and see if letting the player do the tone mapping helps things.

I use Ref mode, but I dont think it matters because you will be changing the settings to whatever the masciola patterns show you.

Yes its an HDR disc. I put it in the UB820, put it into SDR202 mode, then calibrate. There is no Contrast (HDR) in this mode, just regular Contrast, so you are able to increase it to max without clipping any highlights.


In regular HDR 2020 mode, on the brightness pattern, Ive always crushed blacks a little because youd have to turn up brightness to around 59 to be able to get the patterns correct, and this raises the black floor too much. In SDR2020, brightness of 50 is perfect and black floor looks subjectively better to me.



In HDR2020 mode, you can only raise contrast (HDR) to around 60ish before you clip highlights. In SDR2020, you can raise it to Max and your still good on the patterns, giving you a much brighter picture without clipping any bright highlights.



I agree with woof woof on black panther, looks much better IMO in SDR2020. Much better shadow details and much better on the bright highlights. Looks more like a custom curve or a lumagen IMO when you use the SDR2020 mode.
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post #3365 of 4729 Old 09-14-2018, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Hi.

Sony will ask you to do a panel alignment before they even entertain a return. They may even try to tell you that it is behaving as expected (If they expect lots of blur streaks from a top end device, then I guess it is……).
However, if you are seeing this from your seat even after doing a very careful panel alignment (using R/G, not R/G/B), then get onto your dealer/Sony support straight away. It is not acceptable on any device, let alone one this expensive.

Some units have this more than others and other users @Dave Harper for example, returned their units with this much streaking.

Good luck.

Thanks for your input!


I was under impression that amout of blue strikes cannot be adjusted by panel alignment, but maybe I'm wrong; the length of these vertical strikes is quite significant; on my screen (150'' 16:9) when I'm near the screen I'm able to see them going up for 30-40 centimeters I believe. overall picture quality is very good; but that amount of striking on that specific conditions worries me, I think it could affect overall picture quality all the time, we just dont see it, but its there. btw its not happening only for white bright text, today I've seen it on ending titles of Ocean's Eight; and titles there wasnt too bright, I'd say they was in light gray color, and I was able to see strikes, not so prominent, but there were there..



about panel alignment, I actually did some work on panel alignment, but I'm not sure if I did things right; I was using "shift" mode and tried to make white lines to have minimum amount of "other colors"
can you suggest some tutorial how to do that properly? or perhaps guide me here by writing steps I should perform if that is not too much to ask?


do I need to do zone alignment or shift alignment or both? and when doing alignment what result I should try to get?



thanks!

Last edited by axlns; 09-14-2018 at 10:54 AM.
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post #3366 of 4729 Old 09-14-2018, 10:50 AM
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Hi to you all,

I have currently a JVC-X7500 with which I am relatively happy, except for the (relative) softness and the HDR, which I feel often produces pictures which are too dark, except in a small, very (even sometimes too) bright area of the screen

I just got a very nice offer on a new WV-760ES but I am hesitating in taking the jump for the following reasons:

1. Black levels. I know these are not as good on the Sony than on the JVC, but will they still feel OK coming from my current PJ, especially for B&W and silent movies?

2. HDR. At least on paper, the Sony is not much brighter than my JVC. Will I still feel the pictures are sometimes too dark?

3. HDR10+: when will a PJ offer HDR10+, one year, two years from now?

4. New JVC PJs: They are for me a natural option, but they are not laser-based and what about their black levels?

Basically, my options are: keeping my current PJ, buying the WV-760 now or buying the N7 a few months from now (I can't afford the N9). What would you do?

Thank you!
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post #3367 of 4729 Old 09-14-2018, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Honey1 View Post
Hi to you all,



I have currently a JVC-X7500 with which I am relatively happy, except for the (relative) softness and the HDR, which I feel often produces pictures which are too dark, except in a small, very (even sometimes too) bright area of the screen



I just got a very nice offer on a new WV-760ES but I am hesitating in taking the jump for the following reasons:



1. Black levels. I know these are not as good on the Sony than on the JVC, but will they still feel OK coming from my current PJ, especially for B&W and silent movies?



2. HDR. At least on paper, the Sony is not much brighter than my JVC. Will I still feel the pictures are sometimes too dark?



3. HDR10+: when will a PJ offer HDR10+, one year, two years from now?



4. New JVC PJs: They are for me a natural option, but they are not laser-based and what about their black levels?



Basically, my options are: keeping my current PJ, buying the WV-760 now or buying the N7 a few months from now (I can't afford the N9). What would you do?



Thank you!


I’m the happy owner of a 760. I watched recently Christine and Lara Croft: Tomb Raider and I’m amazed of the HDR picture you could get with a proper 3DLUT and madVR tone mapping. It’s a totally new experience coming from a 320.

Regarding your interrogations, I would still advise you to wait for NX9 reviews. The JVC is on paper a very fierce competitor. Lumen output is the same, color gamut coverage is close or better and the lens should be better. As for HDR handling it all depends if you rely on an external tone mapping device/software. The 760 with the laser should provide for a very nice upgrade even though it’s similarly bright as your X7500. But again the wise choice is to wait. In the end it also depends on how good your deal is regarding the 760. I wouldn’t worry too much about contrast, the 760 is still an excellent device in that regard.

If I had to purchase something now, I would consider the 760 and the NX9. I wouldn’t bother looking at the N7. Again on paper. The N7 might not be far behind the NX9.
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post #3368 of 4729 Old 09-14-2018, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honey1 View Post
Hi to you all,

I have currently a JVC-X7500 with which I am relatively happy, except for the (relative) softness and the HDR, which I feel often produces pictures which are too dark, except in a small, very (even sometimes too) bright area of the screen

I just got a very nice offer on a new WV-760ES but I am hesitating in taking the jump for the following reasons:

1. Black levels. I know these are not as good on the Sony than on the JVC, but will they still feel OK coming from my current PJ, especially for B&W and silent movies?

2. HDR. At least on paper, the Sony is not much brighter than my JVC. Will I still feel the pictures are sometimes too dark?

3. HDR10+: when will a PJ offer HDR10+, one year, two years from now?

4. New JVC PJs: They are for me a natural option, but they are not laser-based and what about their black levels?

Basically, my options are: keeping my current PJ, buying the WV-760 now or buying the N7 a few months from now (I can't afford the N9). What would you do?

Thank you!

To me, Id only look at the 885 vs. JVC nx9. The lens looks awesome on that model.



Contrast is better on the JVCs, but Im very happy with the contrast the 885es. Any chance you can see one in person? I just like the way laser looks, hard to describe. Only PJ id consider switching to from my 885 is the JVC nx9 or the JVS rs4500 laser. Just IMO of course
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post #3369 of 4729 Old 09-14-2018, 03:33 PM
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...
1. Black levels. I know these are not as good on the Sony than on the JVC, but will they still feel OK coming from my current PJ, especially for B&W and silent movies?...
If you watch a lot of older content that was shot on film there should not be much difference in contrast and black levels. The film stock used in most older film did not have the dynamic range of the last generation mainstream stock which could get up to ~10,000:1.

Older B&W film should be fine on either projector. Some of my old film buddies suggest calibrating at D52 instead of D65 for older film for a more accurate look.

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post #3370 of 4729 Old 09-14-2018, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honey1 View Post
Hi to you all,

I have currently a JVC-X7500 with which I am relatively happy, except for the (relative) softness and the HDR, which I feel often produces pictures which are too dark, except in a small, very (even sometimes too) bright area of the screen

I just got a very nice offer on a new WV-760ES but I am hesitating in taking the jump for the following reasons:

1. Black levels. I know these are not as good on the Sony than on the JVC, but will they still feel OK coming from my current PJ, especially for B&W and silent movies?

2. HDR. At least on paper, the Sony is not much brighter than my JVC. Will I still feel the pictures are sometimes too dark?

3. HDR10+: when will a PJ offer HDR10+, one year, two years from now?

4. New JVC PJs: They are for me a natural option, but they are not laser-based and what about their black levels?

Basically, my options are: keeping my current PJ, buying the WV-760 now or buying the N7 a few months from now (I can't afford the N9). What would you do?

Thank you!
I moved from a JVC X9500 to the 760ES.

Yes, there are instances where the X9500 will outperform the 760ES. Particularly in SDR material. But with HDR, I was also struck by how much there is a raised black level on the X9500 to compensate for the higher brightness needed for HDR. Even in SDR, the Sony 760ES does a decent job with black levels except in very very low APL scenes.

Everything else. the 760ES shines. In motion. In sharpness. In color. In brightness. The laser engine just feels vibrant and punchy without being overblown.

The first time I put the 760ES in and fired it up, it was like a light cannon next to the X9500.
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post #3371 of 4729 Old 09-14-2018, 08:25 PM
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OK, @jbrinegar , you've sold me.

I tried your settings tonight (previously, I was using Cinema Film 1, which DOES have some other things turned on in Advanced (Color correction, I believe, perhaps one other setting) which Reference does NOT have turned on. Also, before in Cinema Film 1, I didn't have the contrast as high as max (I had something like 75, can't remember).

But trying Reference with everything you mentioned, I'm definitely impressed. The end of Mission Impossible 5 was nearly unwatchable before (dark outdoor scene)...but now, SO much better.

I tried a bunch of movies, ones even that I think look great when the 885ES is in HDR mode...like Dark Knight Rises' opening sequence...and I felt they looked about the same. The Warner logo still had that vibrant HDR-like "pop" to it, the airplane sequence looked great, etc.

I've been running the 885ES in HDR mode on Cinema Film 1 for a few months, so I've gotten used to how bright it can be. But obviously, many movies look very muddy in darker scenes. Some movies (Bourne Identity, Prestige, part of MI5, part of Predator) were borderline unwatchable before during the dark scenes.

I will say this: I would say the eye-blinding brightness that I've noticed in certain scenes in certain movies is still quite bright, but maybe around 85-90% as bright as what I can remember. But if that means gaining the much better shadow detail in dark scenes, I'll definitely take it. Now if only Oppo would release a f/w update to do tone mapping like this, then we'd have the ultimate (HDMI In, etc)...I actually believe they will, eventually.

Thanks so much...

Chris
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post #3372 of 4729 Old 09-15-2018, 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post
I moved from a JVC X9500 to the 760ES.

Yes, there are instances where the X9500 will outperform the 760ES. Particularly in SDR material. But with HDR, I was also struck by how much there is a raised black level on the X9500 to compensate for the higher brightness needed for HDR. Even in SDR, the Sony 760ES does a decent job with black levels except in very very low APL scenes.

Everything else. the 760ES shines. In motion. In sharpness. In color. In brightness. The laser engine just feels vibrant and punchy without being overblown.

The first time I put the 760ES in and fired it up, it was like a light cannon next to the X9500.
Same sentiments as from my mate who went from the X9500 to the 760ES . I will say again, the 760ES is one of my favourite projectors...
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post #3373 of 4729 Old 09-15-2018, 02:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honey1 View Post
Hi to you all,

I have currently a JVC-X7500 with which I am relatively happy, except for the (relative) softness and the HDR, which I feel often produces pictures which are too dark, except in a small, very (even sometimes too) bright area of the screen

I just got a very nice offer on a new WV-760ES but I am hesitating in taking the jump for the following reasons:

1. Black levels. I know these are not as good on the Sony than on the JVC, but will they still feel OK coming from my current PJ, especially for B&W and silent movies?

2. HDR. At least on paper, the Sony is not much brighter than my JVC. Will I still feel the pictures are sometimes too dark?

3. HDR10+: when will a PJ offer HDR10+, one year, two years from now?

4. New JVC PJs: They are for me a natural option, but they are not laser-based and what about their black levels?

Basically, my options are: keeping my current PJ, buying the WV-760 now or buying the N7 a few months from now (I can't afford the N9). What would you do?

Thank you!
I would select vw760es, or wait till N7 r leases. Colour gmait coverage is better than x7500 or even x9900, I relate to dci-p3 coversge. Blacks are not the second as JVC ones, but you still will be enjoying it's picture. I love that PJ vw760es everyday I turn it and tell myself how damn picture it throws. But you'll have to calibrate it to have perfect colours, as out of the box I didn't like it much it's colours had a lot off green tint, even after switching it off from service menu. So I would take 760ee, as you'll enjoy it 100÷ also it's more crisper than x7500

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post #3374 of 4729 Old 09-15-2018, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axlns View Post
Thanks for your input!


I was under impression that amout of blue strikes cannot be adjusted by panel alignment, but maybe I'm wrong; the length of these vertical strikes is quite significant; on my screen (150'' 16:9) when I'm near the screen I'm able to see them going up for 30-40 centimeters I believe. overall picture quality is very good; but that amount of striking on that specific conditions worries me, I think it could affect overall picture quality all the time, we just dont see it, but its there. btw its not happening only for white bright text, today I've seen it on ending titles of Ocean's Eight; and titles there wasnt too bright, I'd say they was in light gray color, and I was able to see strikes, not so prominent, but there were there..



about panel alignment, I actually did some work on panel alignment, but I'm not sure if I did things right; I was using "shift" mode and tried to make white lines to have minimum amount of "other colors"
can you suggest some tutorial how to do that properly? or perhaps guide me here by writing steps I should perform if that is not too much to ask?


do I need to do zone alignment or shift alignment or both? and when doing alignment what result I should try to get?



thanks!
Hi.

Yes, you were using it correctly.
Use shift mode as a preference as it shifts the entire screen not just parts of it. Zone is to fine tune any parts of the screen that don't quite match up if necessary. I tend to stick to shift as it is usually good enough over the screen, especially from the seated position.

Use the RG option in the panel alignment not the RGB as it is easier to sort the convergence with only two colours at once.

Check the manual as it explains a lot of it.

Good luck.

P.S. If you are getting streaking which is obvious from the seated position even after trying alignment etc, then you need to instigate a return/repair ASAP. Make sure you take pics before and during/after the alignment etc as Sony will doubtless want evidence of the fault and your adjustments, and it is easier than un-adjusting it again after getting it as good as you can.

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post #3375 of 4729 Old 09-15-2018, 04:56 AM
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I think it could affect overall picture quality all the time, we just dont see it
I dunno about you but if there's a problem with a display that I cannot see, I don't care. The display's job is to show me images I view. If the problems are not visible, then they're not problems.
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post #3376 of 4729 Old 09-18-2018, 04:29 AM
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Does anyone here already watched the movie Solo in UHD? I found that the calibrated picture was way too bright, blacks rendered as grey except for the end credits that looked right. I’m wondering if my 3DLUT with madVR behaves as expected. Or is is the master or black level not rendered properly. Other movies looked okay though.
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post #3377 of 4729 Old 09-18-2018, 11:15 AM
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What was the source material?

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post #3378 of 4729 Old 09-18-2018, 06:15 PM
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Does anyone here already watched the movie Solo in UHD? I found that the calibrated picture was way too bright, blacks rendered as grey except for the end credits that looked right. I’m wondering if my 3DLUT with madVR behaves as expected. Or is is the master or black level not rendered properly. Other movies looked okay though.
I thought that was supposed to be a very dark looking movie ?
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post #3379 of 4729 Old 09-18-2018, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by SoulOfUniverse View Post
I would select vw760es, or wait till N7 r leases. Colour gmait coverage is better than x7500 or even x9900, I relate to dci-p3 coversge. Blacks are not the second as JVC ones, but you still will be enjoying it's picture. I love that PJ vw760es everyday I turn it and tell myself how damn picture it throws. But you'll have to calibrate it to have perfect colours, as out of the box I didn't like it much it's colours had a lot off green tint, even after switching it off from service menu. So I would take 760ee, as you'll enjoy it 100÷ also it's more crisper than x7500

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I am not following you on the DCI coverage. The two JVC models listed can do full DCI coverage. It does cost lumens when engaged.
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post #3380 of 4729 Old 09-18-2018, 09:23 PM
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I am not following you on the DCI coverage. The two JVC models listed can do full DCI coverage. It does cost lumens when engaged.
I've seen x9900 side be a side with 760es, and 760es produced way richer colors in the image. Both calibrated by the same person. Then we hooked up my 760ES next to it, via my Lumagen Pro4444 calibrated by myself (LightSpace). I and Nigel preferred the picture on my PJ hooked via Lumagen, against the other calibrated 760ES and X9900. X9900 was only winning in blacks, despite the fact it had the hand-picked premium lens, it still looked no that sharp as vw760es and definitely colors where not so popped out, as compared to my VW760ES and the other 760ES unit.
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post #3381 of 4729 Old 09-19-2018, 12:18 AM
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I thought that was supposed to be a very dark looking movie ?


Nevermind. I did a new calibration with gamma 2.2 instead of BT.1886 and it looked way better (with no black crush).
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post #3382 of 4729 Old 09-19-2018, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by SoulOfUniverse View Post
I've seen x9900 side be a side with 760es, and 760es produced way richer colors in the image. Both calibrated by the same person. Then we hooked up my 760ES next to it, via my Lumagen Pro4444 calibrated by myself (LightSpace). I and Nigel preferred the picture on my PJ hooked via Lumagen, against the other calibrated 760ES and X9900. X9900 was only winning in blacks, despite the fact it had the hand-picked premium lens, it still looked no that sharp as vw760es and definitely colors where not so popped out, as compared to my VW760ES and the other 760ES unit.
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I think what you are seeing is not necessarily a difference in colorspace but a difference in color volume. I believe lasers are able to achieve better color volumes over a wide range of luminance whereas bulb projectors can hit calibration colorspace at a fixed luminance but don't hit the colors at the low and high end gamma range. That's why lasers tend to produce those eye popping true colors that bulb projectors just don't seem to produce with the same vibrancy.
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post #3383 of 4729 Old 09-19-2018, 11:49 AM
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I’ve played a little bit with RC these past few days and I start to get convinced by its merits. It is quite impressive how it enhances the sense of details. Now in my mind it is still just a sharpener for UHD/4K content at least but it is hard not to activate it at least to some extent. Actually I’ve been running it at 70 (quite high) with pleasing results. I would be interested to compare the 870 with the 760 and see how the 760 with RC on compares to the 870 with RC off (considering that the 870 without RC should be able to resolve most native details by itself). Or should I say: how does RC denaturates the picture? When you activate it, you somehow have the feeling that you bring back some lost details. Now it’s just a sharpener, so nothing magical here and nothing really special as compared to any other sharpener, except maybe that it does a better job than most said post processing algorithms.
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post #3384 of 4729 Old 09-19-2018, 12:55 PM
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I think what you are seeing is not necessarily a difference in colorspace but a difference in color volume. I believe lasers are able to achieve better color volumes over a wide range of luminance whereas bulb projectors can hit calibration colorspace at a fixed luminance but don't hit the colors at the low and high end gamma range. That's why lasers tend to produce those eye popping true colors that bulb projectors just don't seem to produce with the same vibrancy.
Yes, when we relate to HDR content it will always be a color volume as it contains 3rd dimensions of nits value. I just didn't mentioned that in the beginning. So I would add a note, that I relate to HDR content and its color volume is greater than x7500 or x9900.

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post #3385 of 4729 Old 09-19-2018, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by hasta666 View Post
I’ve played a little bit with RC these past few days and I start to get convinced by its merits. It is quite impressive how it enhances the sense of details. Now in my mind it is still just a sharpener for UHD/4K content at least but it is hard not to activate it at least to some extent.
I love RC on my 385 as well. Primarily I love the way it handles a 1080p or 720p satellite signal and upscales to 4k with RC set at a higher value.

The one thing that bugs me about RC is it's black box secrecy about what it actually is. Sony is so obscure with their texture database and texture recognition processing chip but what the heck it is actually doing. Their sales brochures makes it sound like they detect the texture pattern from the 1080p image and then they enhance it with their custom database of textures so that it displays the way it would be presented at true 4k. But that seems impossible to do at realtime and the millions of possibilities of natural texture in an image.

In addition, they keep enhancing the database so that each new version of RC is better than the past version. How the heck does that work and exactly how much improved is version 1 from version 2 to version 3, etc?

I know that processing is a proprietary secret but it seems like Sony could do a better job of actually explaining these things so the consumer could know how to even properly set RC and how much improvement can be expected from the different versions of RC.
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post #3386 of 4729 Old 09-20-2018, 02:17 AM
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The one thing that bugs me about RC is it's black box secrecy about what it actually is. Sony is so obscure with their texture database and texture recognition processing chip but what the heck it is actually doing. Their sales brochures makes it sound like they detect the texture pattern from the 1080p image and then they enhance it with their custom database of textures so that it displays the way it would be presented at true 4k. But that seems impossible to do at realtime and the millions of possibilities of natural texture in an image.

In addition, they keep enhancing the database so that each new version of RC is better than the past version. How the heck does that work and exactly how much improved is version 1 from version 2 to version 3, etc?

I know that processing is a proprietary secret but it seems like Sony could do a better job of actually explaining these things so the consumer could know how to even properly set RC and how much improvement can be expected from the different versions of RC.
When I was studying Multimedia Signal Processing, there are several way of how you can upscale the image and enhance it using either "Wavelet Transform", or using Lagrange Equation to enhance image resolution and its texture. The idea is quite simple as its all done by averaging data given on the input for a particular pixel area. I believe this is combined with some predefined textures they have stored in the memory, therefore will give you an RC effect. You can actually try the experiment yourself using MatLab doing simple image enhancements, the beauty of MatLab is that all predefined equations and algorithms are already there.
I would agree in regards comparison of its improvement, you won't notice the difference unless you don't know the exact algorithm how it operates, and because its a pure marketing feature (which Sony states as a unique feature comparing to their competitors), they will never publish science articles about its algorithm implementation, therefore we only left with an option to believe them.
I find RC works very similar how Darbee enhances 1080p image, but RC does it better, still depending on the content.
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post #3387 of 4729 Old 09-22-2018, 07:11 AM
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Fans are out, I guess

My 885 went out after watching it for about three hours one night about a week ago. Two red indicator lights blinked three times, then paused, and then blinked three more times, etc. A picture would come back after awhile, but then it would go out again after a few seconds and the red lights started to blink. According to page 36 of the manual, the two blinking red lights mean “The fan is broken. Consult with qualified Sony personnel.” I tried to turn it off and to unplug the AC, but it only came back to life for a few seconds. Also, it would not turn off with the remote control except for the few seconds when there was a picture. It has about 840 to 850 hours on it. It is now back to Sony for repair.

Has anyone else had this problem?
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post #3388 of 4729 Old 09-23-2018, 04:24 AM
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My 885 went out after watching it for about three hours one night about a week ago. Two red indicator lights blinked three times, then paused, and then blinked three more times, etc. A picture would come back after awhile, but then it would go out again after a few seconds and the red lights started to blink. According to page 36 of the manual, the two blinking red lights mean “The fan is broken. Consult with qualified Sony personnel.” I tried to turn it off and to unplug the AC, but it only came back to life for a few seconds. Also, it would not turn off with the remote control except for the few seconds when there was a picture. It has about 840 to 850 hours on it. It is now back to Sony for repair.

Has anyone else had this problem?
I have not had your issue, but I did get the warning light flash three times at me recently and the picture went off.

'Abnormality in the light source' is what the manual says. It hasn't happened in many hours since but it is something that now niggles in the back of my mind..... Will it happen again?

When did you buy your 885? Do you recall what firmware was on it?

It would be interesting to know if it has been updated when you get it back as earlier models had 8.002 and later ones had 8.003.

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post #3389 of 4729 Old 09-23-2018, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hasta666 View Post
I’ve played a little bit with RC these past few days and I start to get convinced by its merits. It is quite impressive how it enhances the sense of details. Now in my mind it is still just a sharpener for UHD/4K content at least but it is hard not to activate it at least to some extent. Actually I’ve been running it at 70 (quite high) with pleasing results. I would be interested to compare the 870 with the 760 and see how the 760 with RC on compares to the 870 with RC off (considering that the 870 without RC should be able to resolve most native details by itself). Or should I say: how does RC denaturates the picture? When you activate it, you somehow have the feeling that you bring back some lost details. Now it’s just a sharpener, so nothing magical here and nothing really special as compared to any other sharpener, except maybe that it does a better job than most said post processing algorithms.
It's supposedly a bit more than a sharpener. It supposedly has a library of textures it uses to do the sharpening in a unique way. I also agree that it is an enhancement. When playing a game, the way it sharpens is more natural for the textures than turning on say nvidia freestyle's sharpener even.

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post #3390 of 4729 Old 09-23-2018, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
I love RC on my 385 as well. Primarily I love the way it handles a 1080p or 720p satellite signal and upscales to 4k with RC set at a higher value.

The one thing that bugs me about RC is it's black box secrecy about what it actually is. Sony is so obscure with their texture database and texture recognition processing chip but what the heck it is actually doing. Their sales brochures makes it sound like they detect the texture pattern from the 1080p image and then they enhance it with their custom database of textures so that it displays the way it would be presented at true 4k. But that seems impossible to do at realtime and the millions of possibilities of natural texture in an image.

In addition, they keep enhancing the database so that each new version of RC is better than the past version. How the heck does that work and exactly how much improved is version 1 from version 2 to version 3, etc?

I know that processing is a proprietary secret but it seems like Sony could do a better job of actually explaining these things so the consumer could know how to even properly set RC and how much improvement can be expected from the different versions of RC.
There are some sony made disks that contained some data that reality creation used. I wouldn't be surprised if this database was solely on these disks as the obscurity in the marketing material indicates it uses a database, but since it's not explained how it works, it could work as I said. Whatever reality creation does, it does it so well I consider it magic. If I could buy a reality creation processor that sat between the AVR and JVC projector I would.

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